New to the forum

[hiirachell]

Hiirachell

I'm new. I'm a theist, but I'm pretty open minded, and I have different beliefs than a lot of other Christians, even though we still believe pretty similar stuff.

:]

[Irreligious]

Hiirachell

I'm new. I'm a theist, but I'm pretty open minded, and I have different beliefs than a lot of other Christians, even though we still believe pretty similar stuff.

:]
Welcome to the forum, Hiirachell. So, what are your specific beliefs that differ from those held by a lot of other Christians?

Other than the basic narrative outlined in the Bible and the belief that one named Jesus Christ, aka Jesus of Nazareth, died on a cross for humankind's alleged "sins" and revived himself three days later-- which, practically, all self-professed Christians share-- I have observed that Christian beliefs-- as it were-- are all over the map. Some believe the Christ figure or God speaks through a man called "the pope," while others believe this unseen, immaterial entity speaks to his loyal adherents directly, if inaudibly.

There are many who fervently believe that the mother of this fully man/fully god-figure has made mysterious appearances in remote European and Mexican gardens in the past or, even more mysteriously, that she makes frequent nonrepresentational appearances in grilled cheese sandwiches, oddly shaped tree barks and the like, while others are quite comfortable in hardly noticing her at all.

Of course, you've got some Christians who believe God/Jesus has endowed Benny Hinn with special healing powers and Pat Robertson with unique and unparalleled words of wisdom to impart to humankind (well, mostly for those who reside in the U.S. of A.) Some credulously conclude that he has ordained Creflo Dollar with the authority to make them unapologetic millionaires.

No doubt you've heard of the Christian folk who are absolutely convinced that the supreme creator of all entrusted a mid 19th century American from Sharon, Vermont, with a special set of golden plates comprising a whole new holy book apart from the one other Christians use exclusively and refer to as The Holy Bible.

There is a realtively small but ubiquitous number of Christians who are certain that God's true name is Jehovah and that he abhors anyone who would dare celebrate his or her own birthday, let alone those of relatives or friends, and that he will punish for eternity any desperately ill person who is misguided enough to seek a blood transfusion or any young child who swears an innocent blood oath to remain best buddies with a playmate for all time.

There are those who assert that the object of their adoration wants all humankind to shun all medical advancements and treatments of any kind-- save prayer-- when they fall ill, while another set of Christians insist that their Lord and Savior wants his human flock to handle dangerous snakes as a testatment to their unwavering loyalty to the Christ figure.

That's just a small, representative sample.

So, which kind of Christian are you?

[hiirachell]

Hahah I've never even heard of some of the people you mentioned, you've really done your research! And I liked the part about seeing Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich hha.

But I am a Christian, yes, and I agree that Jesus was all God and all Man, and that he was the son of God, i believe that he was born in a manger and that he was crucified, dead, and buried, and that three days later he rose from the dead and that my sin is gone. those are the main things the pretty much all christians believe.

Most Christians agree that life is about striving to be a good person. Trying as hard as you can to meet up with the standards God places on humans in the form of the Ten Commandments. I disagree with that. I believe that there are no good people. People say they are good, so they can call others "bad" and therefore they are better than someone else. We all suck and none of us know what we're doing. We just call ourselves good people so that we can call others bad people and that way we can be better than someone else out there. It's a way to get out of the fact that we really all all equal, and none of us are better than someone else. It's a reason to say, "I don't have to love that person." Because loves hurts sometimes, and the less people we have to love, the easier. I'm saying that preachers aren't any better than athiests and gays aren't worse than straights. I think that assholes are equal to sweethearts, hookers aren't worse than virgins, and straightedge isn't any better than a druggie. None of us is better than another person, we've all screwed up, we've all ruined something, and all of us can be forgiven. I don't care who you are, what you've done, what you believe, or where you've been, God will show me a way to love you.

I'm not into the whole striving to be like God thing. It's dumb if you ask me, because we've already lost. Striving is just striving, trying hard is just trying hard; it doesn't get you anywhere. Some of Jesus's last words were, "It is finished." That means to me that all our sins are finished, they're done with, and they're never coming back. So were free of them! We don't have to worry about them anymore, and we don'y have to think about them anymore. So why are people still trying so hard, were supossed to forget about them. Jesus didn't die so that we could live in guilt, he died so that we could live in freedom, and striving for an impossible goal is not freedom to me.

I'm the kind of Christian who thinks that life is all about loving God with everything you are, and loving his kids with everything you are as well. All that matters is falling in love with Jesus.



So tell me, what kind of athiest are you? What made you come to the conclusion that there is no God?

[Irreligious]

Hahah I've never even heard of some of the people you mentioned, you've really done your research! And I liked the part about seeing Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich hha.
Honey, that's not research; I've actually met more of these different kinds of Christian folk than I've read about them second-hand. If you live in a city with more than a couple hundred thousand people, it's easier than you think.

But I am a Christian, yes, and I agree that Jesus was all God and all Man, and that he was the son of God, i believe that he was born in a manger and that he was crucified, dead, and buried, and that three days later he rose from the dead and that my sin is gone. those are the main things the pretty much all christians believe.
As I said in my post, minus a few of the specific details you mentioned. However, what about all those different beliefs they don't share as universals? I mean, you and I both believe that a light colored sky means morning and a dark sky means night, good health is preferable to ill health, and that all who are young today will someday be old if they live long enough, yet it can hardly be said that we share the same belief system.

Most Christians agree that life is about striving to be a good person.
Surely, you are not suggesting that this an endeavor exclusive to most Christians. Do you honestly think most nonChristians strive to be evil?

Trying as hard as you can to meet up with the standards God places on humans in the form of the Ten Commandments. I disagree with that. I believe that there are no good people. People say they are good, so they can call others "bad" and therefore they are better than someone else. We all suck and none of us know what we're doing. We just call ourselves good people so that we can call others bad people and that way we can be better than someone else out there. It's a way to get out of the fact that we really all all equal, and none of us are better than someone else. It's a reason to say, "I don't have to love that person." Because loves hurts sometimes, and the less people we have to love, the easier. I'm saying that preachers aren't any better than athiests and gays aren't worse than straights. I think that assholes are equal to sweethearts, hookers aren't worse than virgins, and straightedge isn't any better than a druggie. None of us is better than another person, we've all screwed up, we've all ruined something, and all of us can be forgiven. I don't care who you are, what you've done, what you believe, or where you've been, God will show me a way to love you.
Interesting. I don't know that I quite share your rather dim view of humanity but, in the aggregate, I agree that no one human is inherently better than another. And, no, we're not a perfect species. Then again, I'm not sure one exists. What is perfection, after all, but a human abstraction? As for God showing you a way to love others, well, I'll take your word for it, since I have no real understanding of what you mean. How, exactly, would an invisible, immaterial and inaudible entity show you how to love someone else?

I'm not into the whole striving to be like God thing. It's dumb if you ask me, because we've already lost.
Well, I imagine it would be quite a challenge to emulate an all-powerful, all-knowing and completely benevolent immaterial entity. I think you're wise to avoid taking on an endeavor of that magnitude.

Striving is just striving, trying hard is just trying hard; it doesn't get you anywhere.
I don't know about that. In less than 150 short years we've gone from the Pony Express to text messaging. Sure, it was a struggle getting there, but can you really say it wasn't worth it?

Some of Jesus's last words were, "It is finished." That means to me that all our sins are finished, they're done with, and they're never coming back. So were free of them! We don't have to worry about them anymore, and we don'y have to think about them anymore. So why are people still trying so hard, were supossed to forget about them. Jesus didn't die so that we could live in guilt, he died so that we could live in freedom, and striving for an impossible goal is not freedom to me.
And what "sins" were those? Being human? Some human behaviors are less than admirable, downright repugnant even but, obviously, we'd be less than human if we were entirely benevolent and compliant. Yes, less than human. What could one possibly accomplish if one were totally free of flaws and not free to improve upon one's self?

And why should existence be free of struggle, anyway? What other animal or plant on the planet is heir to such an existence? None that I can think of. Every beast struggles to eat or not be eaten. Every animal, insect and plant struggles against the elements and for an advantage to not be taken over by them. Struggles to merely exist. After all, struggle is the very essence of existence and its obverse is to succumb to the inevitable oblivion that lies ahead. Still, while we can, we can't help but to engage in the struggle. It's how we're built.

I'm the kind of Christian who thinks that life is all about loving God with everything you are, and loving his kids with everything you are as well. All that matters is falling in love with Jesus.
What, exactly, is it when you're loving God? How do you love something that is neither man, nor beast, nor plant, mineral, air, earth, water or fire? It's not a very well defined entity, as I understand it. When you say that you love this entity whom, presumably, you have not met in the flesh, do you say that in the hopes it will hear you and know that you are loyal to it? I can understand admiring the teachings of Jesus or whatever it is you think this fully God/human stood for, but how can you love someone you've never met? Do you mean that you fear displeasing this unseen entity? What does he/it need with your love anyway? What does it do for him?

So tell me, what kind of athiest are you? What made you come to the conclusion that there is no God?
I'm mostly the kind of atheist struggling to deal peaceably and somewhat happily with the seeming vast majority of my fellow human beings who claim to perceive something I don't. I've never believed in such a thing as a "God," since I have no comprehension of what it's supposed to be. Even as a child, I thought it was preposterous that an old white man hidden somewhere in the clouds controlled everything. In fact, I used to think: How vain are white people that they would elevate themselves to this level?

Later, others presented to me an even more implausible God figure: One that wasn't really human-like, but still unmistakeably male, though utterly immaterial, yet immensely powerful, who was all-loving but simultaneously cranky enough to want to eternally punish those who displeased him and who craved, above all else, the adoration of puny human animals.
How could I possibly follow all these contradictions and not go mad?

[WITHTEETH]

Hi Hiirachel.

I don't believe we are all bad. I do believe we all have different persepctives, you, I, Irreligious and 6.5 billion others and we all have conflicting beliefs, and these beliefs drive our actions. Some of these actions we would call bad, but to the person they may not by, the person does justify is act, but sometimes these justifications are narrow minded, or short sighted, this can cause pain. To be truly moral one has to take into account of everything and make the right decision. How can one rely on a leap of unreason to make a moral choice, and why pick faith over reason when one cna pick?

Im a weak atheist. I don't believe in A god, but im open to the possibility if there is ample evidence. Also Ill believe in minotaurs if one shows me evidence too. For all i can tell thouhg there is no minotaurs because it was just a myth that a halfman half bull use to eat sacrificed youth. And whats up with eating humans? Bulls dont eat meat, and humans dont eat humans so why would a half bull half human eat humans?

Just some food for thought. Welcome to the forum. We have a wide variety of thinkers here, so expects all :hahano: types of feedback.

[Sternwallow]

A villain is not evil in his own sight. Hitler almost certainly never awoke in the morning saying to himself "I wonder how much evil I can do today."

Though I do agree with C. Hitchens that Jerry Falwell probably did wake up every day "scratching his pudgy little haunches and thinking 'Well, I've gotten away with it for another day.'"

[Eva]

it's athEIst. not athIest.

thanks for introducing yourself.

again, welcome to our humble forum.

[Irreligious]

Yeah, I already covered this whole "athiest" vs. "atheist" (which is the correct spelling) mishap in another of your threads. An often repeated mistake like that does tend to make one doubt your sincerity, especially when you seem to have no trouble spelling "theist" correctly. What's up with that?

[Isilmë]

hello hiirachell!
just a couple of questions to consider.


But I am a Christian, yes, and I agree that Jesus was all God and all Man, and that he was the son of God, i believe that he was born in a manger and that he was crucified, dead, and buried, and that three days later he rose from the dead and that my sin is gone. those are the main things the pretty much all christians believe.

you know there's nothing in the bible about him being born in a manger, right?
so where are you getting that from i wonder?


Most Christians agree that life is about striving to be a good person. Trying as hard as you can to meet up with the standards God places on humans in the form of the Ten Commandments.

which ten commandments?
there are three in the bible, and different ones again used by catholics, protestants and jews..


So tell me, what kind of athiest are you? What made you come to the conclusion that there is no God?

what kind of atheist?
well, the very definition of atheist is one who doesn't believe in god, so we're all the same in that respect.
why did i come to the conclusion that there's no god?
i sense that you already began with the assumption that there was a god, however if you don't begin with the assumption that god exists you find that there is no need for one. god is just one of man's inventions to explain what they could not explain. i don't believe in god for the same reason i don't believe in santa claus, the tooth fairy or leprechauns.

[hiirachell]

I didn't mean to spell atheist wrong, sorry!
Isilme - I mean he was born a humble birth, the manger is beside the point.

Irreligious -

1. I didn't mean to say that Christians are the only religion striving to be good. I was just saying that most CHristians do that, it doesn't mean that nonCHristians strive for evil, or do not strive for goodness.

2. You have a point that trying really hard has gotten us places, so i guess i have to change my mind on that, but in a christian religious way, trying hard is just trying hard. it's boring, because you will never be a good enough person.

3. To me loving God is almost inexplainable. It is my greatest evidence of the existence of a loving God. A person cannot be in love with an idea, a religion, or a lie. Someone can sure wrap their entire life into selling the "product" to other people. Someone can be enthralled with an idea, religion, or lie. But I believe that it is impossible to be head over heels in love with it. I don't think a person can be in love this deeply with something that is inaminent. It's like the one girl that every highschool has who is so in love with her boyfriend that she forgets about everything else and nothing else matters to her. I've come to the point where i'm so in love with Jesus that i don't care about other things as much and it's the only thing that really matters at the end of the day. -sorry if i got a little mushy hah.

[Sternwallow]

I didn't mean to spell atheist wrong, sorry!
Isilme - I mean he was born a humble birth, the manger is beside the point.

Then what is the point of a humble birth? It confers no particular nobility being an "accident of birth" just as being born in the upper middle class would have been. What is so doggoned wonderful about being born out of wedlock in someone else's barn? The Jews were expecting a king as was prophesied. Only people in humble circumstances would think it was somehow admirable to be born in a cultural backwater to a girl woefully unprepared for motherhood and a father who was so gullible as to believe her story (though it took a dream to convince him). Who would think that being a dirt-poor infant among superstitious and equally poor peasants would be automatically prepared, with no education but carpentry, to become a warrior king who would rescue the Jews from their oppressors (the Persians according to Daniel) by force of arms? Yet this was the prophesy that the messiah was supposed to fulfill and in which the Jews were sorely disappointed by Jesus.

Irreligious -

1. I didn't mean to say that Christians are the only religion striving to be good. I was just saying that most CHristians do that, it doesn't mean that nonCHristians strive for evil, or do not strive for goodness. So, in striving to do good, it doesn't matter if one is religious or not. So Christianity can be canceled from that effort since it plays no part.

2. You have a point that trying really hard has gotten us places, so i guess i have to change my mind on that, but in a christian religious way, trying hard is just trying hard. it's boring, because you will never be a good enough person. How is it just for us to be condemned for crimes we did not commit and to be unable to make right those crimes that we do commit? Why isn't restitution and remorse sufficient? Especially, why is the murder of an innocent person necessary? How does that great evil exonerate anyone else's guilt?

3. To me loving God is almost inexplainable. It is my greatest evidence of the existence of a loving God. A person cannot be in love with an idea, a religion, or a lie. Someone can sure wrap their entire life into selling the "product" to other people. Someone can be enthralled with an idea, religion, or lie. But I believe that it is impossible to be head over heels in love with it. I don't think a person can be in love this deeply with something that is inaminent[sic]. It's like the one girl that every highschool has who is so in love with her boyfriend that she forgets about everything else and nothing else matters to her. I've come to the point where i'm so in love with Jesus that i don't care about other things as much and it's the only thing that really matters at the end of the day. -sorry if i got a little mushy hah.Your evidence for a loving god is that you can explain it, but you are nearly unable to do so, is that right? Doesn't the girl in your example need a concrete boyfriend who she can push around and try to change, one who she can take home and show to her parents?

I had a dream girl once and, when I finally met someone who was very much like her, I almost immediately liked that person. I never did love the dream nor do I reckon that there is any way that I could have done so.

Before you crazies get goofy ideas, my dream girl did not resemble my mother (or my father). So, stop it right there!

[Irreligious]

I didn't mean to spell atheist wrong, sorry!
OK. It's just odd that you never misspelled theist in any of your posts, but atheist was consistently misspelled. I mean, the words theist and atheist are practically the same word, minus a single letter to distinguish them. Whatever.

Irreligious -

1. I didn't mean to say that Christians are the only religion striving to be good. I was just saying that most CHristians do that, it doesn't mean that nonCHristians strive for evil, or do not strive for goodness.
I understood what you meant, but do you understand what your statement implied? It implied that Christians are somehow unique in this endeavor to be good. It is akin to asserting that what most Christians share in common is that they enjoy good food. Naturally, I'd be compelled to retort: Uh, who doesn't? In other words, striving to be good is a uniquely human endeavor-- however each individual might define good-- not a Christian one.

I suppose it might be fair to say that many Christians strive to be obedient to what they believe are the teachings of Jesus Christ. Still, I, myself, have encountered a diversity of opinion among professed Christians as regards what those teachings are and how they ought be interpreted. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

2. You have a point that trying really hard has gotten us places, so i guess i have to change my mind on that, but in a christian religious way, trying hard is just trying hard. it's boring, because you will never be a good enough person.
Sounds like a bad case of low self-esteem to me. What, exactly, is a good enough person? How good does one need to be before he or she is exempt from having to try any harder? To those walking around with that attitude, I say: Get over yourselves. Who told you you were expected to be anything more than human?

3. To me loving God is almost inexplainable. It is my greatest evidence of the existence of a loving God. A person cannot be in love with an idea, a religion, or a lie. Someone can sure wrap their entire life into selling the "product" to other people. Someone can be enthralled with an idea, religion, or lie. But I believe that it is impossible to be head over heels in love with it. I don't think a person can be in love this deeply with something that is inaminent. It's like the one girl that every highschool has who is so in love with her boyfriend that she forgets about everything else and nothing else matters to her. I've come to the point where i'm so in love with Jesus that i don't care about other things as much and it's the only thing that really matters at the end of the day. -sorry if i got a little mushy hah.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing evidence of the existence of a loving God from what you've attempted to explain. And, of course, a person can be in love with an idea, his or her religion, and, yes, even a lie. In fact, many people seem to find lies far more flattering than the truth. Examples of such abound.

And you can't really be in love a flesh and blood Jesus you've never met, can you? In the absence of having pressed his flesh or gazed into his face, how can Jesus be anything more to you than an idea?

[hiirachell]

It's not a bad case of low self esteem. In fact, this takes away high and low self esteem altogheter. I'm saying that many Christians (but not only Christians) strive their whole life to be good enough to get into heaven. I'm saying that will never happen, you're never going to be good enough. That where Jesus fill in every gap and every hole, Jesus mazkes you good enough. After having fallen in love with Jesus, after meeting him, you feel that you are good enough, not because you tried and tried and finally made it, but because you're simply alive. Being alive is good enough for God and we don't have to follow all these 10 commandments in order to be good enough.. because we already are. That is beautiful.

Yeah, there's no hard fact evidence. I could sit here and try to type up half the things in the bible that would make any person of any religion at least question, "How could someone other that God make this up?" but theres too much to write. Maybe you could love a lie, an idea, or a religioin, but you cannot be IN love with it.

I honestly don't know how I can be falling in love with someone I've never met in the flesh, but I am. I feel that i have gazed into his face, I feel that I have intertwined my soul into His. He is the only person who has explained the way I live. Why do I always want to be first? Why is it hard for me to love people? Why is it that I search long and hard for something to make me feel alive, but still remain dead inside? Why is life boring, the same thing everyday, every weekend? I am falling, and have fallen, so intensly in love with Jesus, that nothing else seems to matter. This is romance, beauty in my eyes, of course it's just an idea, a religion, a lie in yours. But to me Jesus is not an idea, he's not a lie, and he's most certainly not a religion.

[Eva]

:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:



:vomit:

[Choobus]

I am falling, and have fallen, so intensly in love with Jesus, that nothing else seems to matter.

do you do anal?

[Irreligious]

Well, I don't know what a skeptic is supposed to do with that information, hiirachell. If it gives you comfort, I'm sincerely happy for you, but why share it here of all places?

It is devoid of anything I could use, since I am not prone to falling in love with imaginary entities, at least not in the way you describe. I trust you'll retort that Jesus is not imaginary to you. But I would be compelled to counter that you have not met this 2,000+ year old figure in the flesh and I'm sure you couldn't pick him out in a police lineup, so the only way you could possibly conceive of this entity is by imagining it.

You seem like a nice enough person to me (as much as one can tell over the Internet, anyway). It would seriously annoy me to see you have your ass handed to you by these hardheaded atheists here and then see you get all indignant over their inhospitable behavior. So, unless you are here specifically to tussle with these guys and gals, I would advise you to skedaddle, pronto, and find a Christian site to share your story. Undoubtedly, it will be much better received there. I assure you, your tale will be met with nothing but derision here. Don't ask why. That's just the way it is. Enjoy your life.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Why bother enjoying life at all, when it is nothing but a prelude to a glorious and eternal after-life of spooning with Mr. Perfect? How can one enjoy what is essentially the biggest obstacle to perpetual bliss? Isn't life just a really long line through which one must suffer before gaining entrance into the greatest nightclub in the universe?

Assuming, of course, that one has fallen madly in love with the right bouncer.

Oh, and, uh: me? I'm one of those hardheaded atheists, hiirachell. Welcome.

[Choobus]

As a christian parent can you do anything less than kill your children? They will go to heaven as innocents, and even though you yourself will go to hell, you'll have saved a child from possibly sinning and going themselves, which is the ultimate sacrifice. Plus, if you repent, you too can go to heaven. It's win win, provided it's not all fictional. One can only assume that christians don't kill their children because either they don't care about them, or they aren't sure that it's not bullshit. Either way, this proves that they are liars.....

[ghoulslime]

do you do anal?

He already stated that "Jesus fills in every gap and every hole". I think that pretty much covers it.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Falling in love with Jesus is exactly like falling in love with Jane Eyre.

And this asinine distinction between "loving" and "being in love with" is the sort of idiotic linguistic gymnastics I tried to pull in seventh grade.

If you've got a boner for Jesus, hiirachell, just rub one out in the shower and get on with your day.

[Smellyoldgit]

:vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:
Never have I read such blubbering shite nonsense (since franny's last post).
Now I know why It's pointless to ever try and reason with such idiotic brain-deads.
Of course, this ridiculous poster could be a super-troll?
I doubt a 'real' person could be so stupidly naive.

[anthonyjfuchs]

You've never heard of kids having wet-dreams about Jesus?

[Sternwallow]

It's not a bad case of low self esteem. In fact, this takes away high and low self esteem altogheter[sic]. I'm saying that many Christians (but not only Christians) strive their whole life to be good enough to get into heaven. I'm saying that will never happen, you're never going to be good enough.The institutionalized self-hatred you just expressed should be sending you a signal that your conclusions derived from it should be more carefully examined. Such externally imposed guilt is inappropriate and unhealthy.

Certainly God's criteria for entering Heaven are too demanding. For example, since I set the requirements for entering my home, you may only come in if all of your teeth are solid gold. Only a few individuals anointed by me have them so none of you natural-teeth people can come in, however much you may wish to. But, my son is a dentist so, if you willingly lose all of your natural teeth, he will fix you up with a set of shiny metal choppers. Then you can enter my home and join the party.

Do you see how imbecilic that criterion would be?
That [is] where Jesus fill[s] in every gap and every hole, Jesus mazkes[sic] you good enough.If this is true, it is unjust for Jesus to have made you inadequate in the first place.

You are saying (metaphorically) that Jesus, as the potter, deliberately made lots of pots with severe cracks in them. When each one has been around for a period of time he chooses, he will smash it if it has a crack. But, if the pot has his name stamped on the bottom when smashing time comes, he will repair the crack and place the, now perfect, pot high on a trophy shelf.

Jesus is not only the author of our flaws, he also gives some of us the ability to recognize him and come into a relationship with him. He denies this ability to others and then watches them "choose Hell". How much more unjust can you get?
After having fallen in love with Jesus, after meeting him, you feel that you are good enough, not because you tried and tried and finally made it, but because you're simply alive.A pleasant sentiment, perhaps, but, lacking a tangible Jesus, the only place for you to meet him is in your mind, a place where you can meet literally anybody whether they ever existed or not. It is perverse to fall in love with a creation of your own mind because it makes a lie of the proper love relationship between two real people.

To say that you feel good enough to enter Heaven after meeting and falling in love with Jesus highlights exactly the problem. Feeling good doesn't make any part of it true. You could have, and many people do, feel that you were worthy of Heaven from the beginning. You would say that feeling is worthless and I say so is your feeling that Jesus has smiled on you.

Being alive is, according to the text, exactly what condemned us to Hell at birth so it is not a good Biblical thing to "feel alive".

Being alive is good enough for God and we don't have to follow all these 10 commandments in order to be good enough.. because we already are. That is beautiful.It is also contrary to everything the Bible says about the sinful nature of everyone. Your statement also implies that we can ignore all of the rules and commandments and be truly horrible people and, before we die, fall in "love" with Jesus and all the evil is magically erased. You can't possibly see that as justice from a thoroughly just God.

Yeah, there's no hard fact evidence. I could sit here and try to type up half the things in the bible that would make any person of any religion at least question, "How could someone other that God make this up?" but theres too much to write.And yet so many people have managed to write whole books of sacred text just like the entire Bible and had millions believe them just as they do the Bible. None of the success of the Bible requires that it be written by or even encouraged by God.
Maybe you could love a lie, an idea, or a religioin[sic], but you cannot be IN love with it.This statement is not meaningful to anyone but your own idiosyncratic self.
I honestly don't know how I can be falling in love with someone I've never met in the flesh, but I am. I feel that i have gazed into his face, I feel that I have intertwined my soul into His.Here you go with these internal, mental states again. Don't you really think that, lacking the "in the flesh" element, you could have fallen equally in love with the Easter Bunny? I understand he is kind and forgiving and generally very pleasant to be around (by which I mean as only an image in your head).
He is the only person who has explained the way I live.What information did he impart to you that was not already in your own head? Was any of this information something that everyone does not know from life experience? If it is really new information, it would be the very evidence that Jesus exists that people have been searching for these last two millenia. Trot it out. Tell us why Pi has to be transcendental or what is the next previously unknown species to be discovered near undersea volcanic vents.Why do I always want to be first?Because you are a human animal and that is what helps animals survive.
Why is it hard for me to love people?Because being picky in intimate relationships that could lead to offspring has higher survival potential.
Why is it that I search long and hard for something to make me feel alive, but still remain dead inside?Because you have some mental issues that you interpret as emptiness when your life is incredibly full and intense and rich.Why is life boring, the same thing everyday, every weekend?Life is not boring. You choose a rut, climb into it and then you complain that it is straight and unexciting. Boredom is, I am sorry to have to tell you, entirely self-inflicted. People in prison who are not permitted to talk to another person, where sunlight is piped in on alternate Tuesdays [v-cookie for the reference], manage to build lives sufficiently rich that they eagerly relish each new minute they can live. You apparently have bailed on life and now regret it but haven't the Moxie to face your own role in its loss.
I am falling, and have fallen, so intensly[sic] in love with Jesus, that nothing else seems to matter.You have just described a fetish. Yours is insidious because the target is imaginary. Fetishes are not healthy. You would be wise to seek professional help lest you lose your few remaining ties to reality.This is romance, beauty in my eyes,[.] o[O]f course it's just an idea, a religion, a lie in yours.Not a lie. I am quite willing to believe that you have these feelings. Just that they are not about anything real.
But to me Jesus is not an idea, he's not a lie, and he's most certainly not a religion.If Jesus is divine (in the formal sense, not just a neat dresser) then a relationship with him is, by definition, religion. If, to you, Jesus is not an idea, then you do not understand what an idea is. And, yes, many people have told you lies about there being a lord and savior named Jesus, but most of them didn't know any better and were certain that their lie was a good thing.

[VladTheImpaler]

Wow, good reply Sternwallow.

If she can't deliver a reasonable reply to this then I'll know she is not worth the effort of communicating with.

[hiirachell]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th soul, and the identity.

[anthonyjfuchs]

I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th [sic] soul, and the identity.

Atheism, being specifically and nothing more than a "lack of belief," does not address anything at all.

One can, however, address such topics as "th soul" and "the identity" without resorting to supernatural or theistic explanations. The notion of the soul, for instance, is unsupported by empirical evidence; the idea that human beings possess some immaterial element is more than likely a fabrication of our own ego. That fabrication, in turn, is based in the fact that we are conscious of both our own existence and our own mortality. We understand that we are, and that we will subsequently die. But there is no evidence that such a thing as "th soul" is an actual thing that actually exists.

As to "the identity," by which I take it you mean individual personalities: each person's "identity" is a function of their minutely unique brain structure and every single event that they experience in life. At some point, personal choice becomes an element as well, in the cases of people who decide to change some aspect of their personality that they find distasteful. None of these things require supernatural or religious explanations, and can be understood perfectly well without them.

[Irreligious]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th soul, and the identity.
As anthonyjfuchs has already alluded to, you are under the misapprehension that atheism is a religion. It is not. It is a simple lack of belief in gods. Often, by extension, that includes ghosts, demons, leprachauns, unicorns, fairies and other alleged supernatural phenomena for which no objective evidence has been uncovered.

If you are functioning with the requisite faculties to understand where you are posting, hiirachell, I must say that it is a puzzlement to me what it is you expect to find in the way of validation in a forum like this.

I don't think anybody here is begrudging you your religious beliefs, if they make you happy and bring you comfort, because we can't really help you in finding your "heart's desire," as it were. Lots of people don't like the reality they confront and seek one that they perceive to be more accommodating to their personal vanity or what they wish to be true. Ultimately, that is why religions exist, I suspect.

Whether one's "religion" manifests itself as a belief in entities who can deliver on a promise to grant one's fondest wishes, such as a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow; faith in an alleged soothsayer's ability to peer into one's future; or devotion to a personal deity who will guide one through life's hardships and promise everlasting nirvana after one dies, these are all things that are in the realm of make-believe to us. There is no objective evidence for the existence of such things, which require excessive amounts of faith and self-delusion to sustain.

Atheists or skeptics simply don't believe in them. That's all.

Atheism= without (a belief in) God or gods.

[Sternwallow]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th[sic] soul, and the identity.
Atheism is not responsible for those questions. They both are scientific questions, since they both pertain to aspects of the natural world, specifically of the mental parts of humans. They are answered by neurology and psychology respectively. Try not to confuse science with atheism.

The soul turns out to be one's perception of one's own personality (including memories, modes of thought and such). That perception is bound to the physical brain (and it degrades upon injury to the brain) so it vanishes along with all other perceptions when the brain dies.

Identity is the recognition that one is a different thing from the surroundings and especially from surrounding people. Damage to a part of the cortex or certain trance-like states can suppress this sense of difference and the person feels "at one with the universe", "an egoless segment of the great 'ALL'". This little mind trick is probably the source of the highly questionable notion of "cosmic consciousness" or "group memory".

[Choobus]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th soul, and the identity.

Religion doesn't address this shit either, it just makes up some more lies and tells you that that is all you need to know. The only "souls" directly adressed by religion are little boys arseholes, and the outcum of such interrogation is far from satisfactory.

[Isilmë]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th soul, and the identity.

that's because the 'soul' is a nonsensical idea. we don't believe in god, so why would we believe in a 'soul'? religion doesn't address the identity any differenty from atheism.
anyway, welcome hirrachell, i'm sure this forum will give you a better understanding of athiesm and atheists. who knows, you may end up an atheist yourself :thumbsup:

[Rhinoqulous]

Maybe all of you are right, but I am still troubled by the fact that atheism doesn't meet the questions of th soul, and the identity.

Personal Identity theory is something I'm actually very interested in. The concept of a "soul" actually complicates the matter more than it does provide solutions. If you're interested start a thread in "General Discussions".

[Irreligious]

that's because the 'soul' is a nonsensical idea. we don't believe in god, so why would we believe in a 'soul'? religion doesn't address the identity any differenty from atheism.
anyway, welcome hirrachell, i'm sure this forum will give you a better understanding of athiesm and atheists. who knows, you may end up an atheist yourself :thumbsup:
You really think so? I don't. So far, from reading her (?) posts, hiirachell doesn't sound constitutionally predisposed to accepting "reality" as it is. That is, as far as we can know it. It's obvious to me that she wants to believe that she (and by extension, humanity in general) is a special kind of lifeform in this vast universe, one with exclusive rights to live on well past her natural expiration. She wants an "ultimate purpose," and she won't get that by denying that her religion has any merit. Seems to me hiirachell needs to "believe."

Let her. But I still think it's good advice that she do it elsewhere (her choice, of course).

[Isilmë]

its possible. many people here were once theists. i wouldn't give up hope :P

[anthonyjfuchs]

You know, I've always been struck by the fact that religion wins adherents through evangelism and indoctrination, whereas almost every nonbeliever I've ever met shed their beliefs on their own. And yet, somehow, there are still more than a billion of us worldwide.

I find that quite telling.

[Sternwallow]

You know, I've always been struck by the fact that religion wins adherents through evangelism and indoctrination, whereas almost every nonbeliever I've ever met shed their beliefs on their own. And yet, somehow, there are still more than a billion of us worldwide.

I find that quite telling.
Naturally, fallen man gives in to his desire to become godlike with what he thinks is knowledge and then convinces himself that he is in control of reality.

Of course the opposite is true. Man can only access the reality that encompasses both the material and the immaterial universe by ridding himself of the pseudo-knowledge and vain aggrandizement of science and taking on, instead, the spiritually wholesome and humble acceptance of his God and the glorious works thereof.

"Urp" 'scuse me. I probably shouldn't have eaten that ergot stained communion wafer. "case of the munchies" from the preceding pot talk. Sorry.
:vomit::rolleyes:

[Hanevet]

Believe it or not, indoctrination and brainwashing is a hell of a lot harder than just using logic. It takes years upon years of brainwashing to make a faithful person, but only a whiff of logic to make an atheist.

[Sternwallow]

Believe it or not, indoctrination and brainwashing is a hell of a lot harder than just using logic. It takes years upon years of brainwashing to make a faithful person, but only a whiff of logic to make an atheist.
Experience here has shown that in most cases, a tidal wave of logic cannot budge a jot or tittle of theist attempts at thought.

[Choobus]

Experience here has shown that in most cases, a tidal wave of logic cannot budge a jot or tittle of theist attempts at thought.

there's yer problem

[Hanevet]

Experience here has shown that in most cases, a tidal wave of logic cannot budge a jot or tittle of theist attempts at thought.

They have been throughly brainwashed. Their minds are broken beyond repair. The Catholic Church attempted to brainwash me but failed, as I had the vaccine for their disease of stupidity - science.