A Simple Mind [Archive] - Raving Atheists Forum

Simple Mind

12-25-2009, 11:19 AM

ok

although I am surely not as well educated as some here, obviously, and I have a limited knowledge of both science and scripture. I assure you that will not stop me from spouting off :P

I live in north central Oklahoma , (admins will notice that my IP realizes back to Texas) smack in the middle of Jesus land
it's like being behind enemy lines or something. I don't just hate religious people,I work with some doozies ,.Southern baptists, a Mormon ,.Pentecostal holiness (the kind that flop around on the floor speaking in tongues). and for the most part they are good people who in 20 years there have refrained from trying to save me (I do keep my beliefs to myself ,. a survival technique) there is a born againer there,.he is most annoying,.ex drug hippie who came to the lord,.blah blah blah :rolleyes:

I was born into Irish Catholosism but my father left the fold when I was 10, I have never had the "faith" , it's just not part of who I am, it just always seemed silly to me is the only way I can explain it.
as of late what with our little crusade in the middle east (and if you don't think the thumpers view it that way you are not talking to them the way I am) I have come to see that the push for the theocroisation ,.theocization?,..(spell check is not helping me with this one :P ) is at the strongest I've seen in my 52 years and that disturbs me greatly, I feel that people who love and trust in our constitution need to be stepping up now more than ever to protect our seperation clause or we may well lose it

so any way,.I came across this place while on a google search started reading and was quite entertained by the posting and thought I'd join

Kate

12-25-2009, 11:21 AM

:clap:
:wave:

GodIsAMyth

12-25-2009, 11:32 AM

Simple Mind

12-25-2009, 11:36 AM

Welcome! Now...how about those genitals? Just a peek?
the world is not ready for that

and I can't upload a pic any way,.I guess we just link pics here?

I dunno

Simple Mind

12-25-2009, 11:37 AM

well,.I got the av to load

Eva

12-25-2009, 01:22 PM

i see a stache in the photo, so i guess it's a boy!!

and well done, simple. that is a nice intro.

nkb

12-25-2009, 01:55 PM

I am not as educated as most of the people on here either so I find myself getting pretty intimidated.Here is what I learned when I first joined (after getting slapped down a few times): when you make an argument, be absolutely sure that you can back it up with some evidence.

Nothing gets the slapdown treatment quicker than someone presenting old wives' tales, urban legends, biased propaganda, and the like, as fact (well, maybe jackass theists preaching get cornholed a little quicker, but not by much).

Otherwise, keep an open mind, be ready to learn, and enjoy the feisty discussions. It worked for me. I am not intimidated, but I know when I am out of my league.

psychodiva

12-25-2009, 02:18 PM

I'd back that advice too nkb :) education isn't everyting- look at Lilseecow :) it's what you do with what sense you have that is more important :)

Simple Mind

12-25-2009, 02:32 PM

Welcome! Love your signature. I am not as educated as most of the people on here either so I find myself getting pretty intimidated. I am basically here to learn some good arguments to use against all of my christian Facebook friends (so far so good). Apparently saying that christianity is stupid just isn't working any longer, soooo. I'm also pretty new here too. Now...how about those genitals? Just a peek?

this is something you may be interested in
granted it's 100 years old but has many good points that can be used in your endeavors, it's looong and may take a day or three

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html

Kate

12-25-2009, 02:43 PM

I like the sentiment of your sig, Simple Mind, but the church grows fondler's what? The suspense is killing me.

http://www.sharingmachine.com/prodimages/apostrophes-200.gif
http://th07.deviantart.net/fs45/300W/f/2009/067/1/7/MP__Grammar_Nazi_by_ItaniMajere.jpg

Simple Mind

12-25-2009, 02:54 PM

dogpet

12-25-2009, 02:58 PM

Hi Simple, like the sig now.

Kate

12-25-2009, 03:06 PM

is that better?

damn smug educated people

Thanks! MUCH better!

I'm not that educated, I just like my jackboots. :D

http://thumb18.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/62233/62233,1236874406,2/stock-photo-smiling-model-in-stylish-jackboots-posing-in-the-studio-26528713.jpg

GodIsAMyth

12-25-2009, 06:46 PM

Simple Mind, Kate is a semantics/grammar nazi! She don't let shit get by! LOL! A woman(?) after my own heart!

The funny thing about being able to back up what I say is that I don't have to have proof that I don't believe in god. I think the proof lies with the theists. There is plenty of proof of evolution, science, etc. I'm drunk so none of this shit may make sense tomorrow. LOL!

Captain Relativity

12-25-2009, 07:06 PM

I'm drunk so none of this shit may make sense tomorrow. LOL!It's been my experience that the absolutely best way to totally clear one's head, when one has had a little too much to drink, is to smoke a couple bowls of meth. :o:thumbsup:

GodIsAMyth

12-25-2009, 07:16 PM

It's been my experience that the absolutely best way to totally clear one's head, when one has had a little too drink, is to smoke a couple bowls of meth. :o:thumbsup:
Ummm, I think maybe I won't do that. I like my teeth just where they are.:P

Captain Relativity

12-25-2009, 07:23 PM

Ummm, I think maybe I won't do that. I like my teeth just where they are.:PHa! Suit yourself, I'm just sayin'... :D

ubs

12-25-2009, 07:31 PM

Yikes Captain. I just lost a childhood friend to glass. Nasty.

Captain Relativity

12-25-2009, 07:40 PM

Yikes Captain. I just lost a childhood friend to glass. Nasty.Yeah, it really is the worst, all kidding aside. I don't do any drugs (these days) and even when I did (way back in my hippie days) I didn't mess with that shit. All I ever did was what we called "crosstops" and even they ended up fucking me up pretty bad (I should never have bought a whole "jar" of 'em). It's true, speed kills.

edit: I'm sorry about your friend. :(

GodIsAMyth

12-25-2009, 08:06 PM

Yikes Captain. I just lost a childhood friend to glass. Nasty.
Damn! Sorry about that!

Simple Mind

01-07-2010, 01:34 PM

our Koi pond

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/MissaTim/IMG_0890.jpg

Irreligious

01-07-2010, 01:49 PM

It's beautiful. I'll bet there's a ton of maintenance involved in keeping it that way.

ILOVEJESUS

01-07-2010, 02:39 PM

our Koi pond

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/MissaTim/IMG_0890.jpg
Smashing

psychodiva

01-07-2010, 05:16 PM

gorgeous - I'm jealous

Eva

01-07-2010, 11:19 PM

fishing!!!

dogpet

01-08-2010, 05:23 AM

fishing!!!

http://www.funnychill.com/files/extreme-pictures/heron-eats-rabbit-01.jpg

dogpet

01-08-2010, 05:26 AM

Good Grief!!!

http://www.funnychill.com/files/extreme-pictures/heron-eats-rabbit-04.jpg

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 01:31 AM

:lol: Of course you're not a gun nut. Only the people who sit naked in a dark room and fondle their guns are gun nuts. But, if you ask those guys, they'll also say they're not gun nuts, only those guys that stick their dicks in the barrels of their guns, or jam them in their asses, are gun nuts.

You remind me of one of my neighbors. He is ultra-conservative (politically speaking), and believes every word that Rush, Glenn, and Sean say. The most "liberal" news source he listens to is Faux News.

To him, anyone who is less conservative than him is a flaming liberal.

Also, George Carlin's diatribe about who is classified as an idiot and a maniac, when talking about drivers on the road, comes to mind.

any way

you seem to have a tendency to attack when you haven't been attacked.
you also jump to some far reaching conclusions

you know almost nothing about me, but because I own guns you have jumped to the conclusion I'm a neocon

that kind of strikes me as funny considering the guys I work with call me a liberal

the only person here who was even remotely understanding of my views on firearms was Captain R.
I promise you that does not bother me

to the content in ell's thread (sorry ell.)

yes, I believe we are a nation of overly sensitive cry babies
any one can say almost any thing and some one gets all twisted out of shape over it. I am sure you will try your damnedest to insult me and provoke a reaction because of my the views in Ell's thread
good luck, I come from and admin much more vile, rude and provocative forums than this fine place (you will also learn at some point that I am a stirrer, I will post to incite posting, (a habit I bring from other boards)
I am equally sure you consider me far less than your intellectual equal.
this I concede to you, I am no where near as smart as you people
oh well, I laughed as I read your post, I was amused at the assumptions you make, I have never considered myself either liberal or conservative. I have never been one to pigeon hole myself
I do not believe in god, thats why I'm here, I find it so disturbing than one has to be considered a good liberal to also be a non thiest or for that matter that a person who may have conservative leaning ideals has to deal with being lumped in with the thumpers, (I imagine many to be less than pleased that their "party" here in America has been so throughly over run with social conservatism,)

to this point you have found exception to any and all views I have outside of the religious discusions,
I can live with that

but I have not come to the conclusion that you , because of your view on things , are some kind of ultra liberal left wing extremist, yet you have concluded I am a fan of fox news,..fox news!!!!

now see, If I was to be the whiny type THAT would offend me

so here, to cause you as little need for assumption as I can

52 years old
divorced two kids three step kids, (living in sin for ten years now) all boys, 3-17 year olds 1-19 year old and one 21
work for a municipal government in a small power plant as an operator, 20 years now
God,..don't believe
abortion,..pro choice, but not a fan, not to keen on the choices people make that lead to the need for them, but still pro choice
gay rights ,...for,.can't even understand why we as a nation even have an issue with this
death penalty,..not opposed to on moral grounds, am opposed to it for the fact I see it as useless
Gun control,..against
strippers,..100% in favor of
pot,...love it
meth coke etc,...hate em,.
alcohol,...beer only
if I had voted, I would have voted for Obama
Reaganomics,...I think it has ruined the country for my people,...(blue collar working class) yes I am a classist ,.(I just made that word up)
the war,..opposed to it

did I miss any thing?

and oh yeah,..I eat meat

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:28 AM

http://img78.echo.cx/img78/975/ohthedrama4vi.gif

Choobus

02-25-2010, 02:38 AM

alcohol,...beer only

Why?

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:41 AM

Why?
easier on the body

Philboid Studge

02-25-2010, 07:48 AM

Its nice to have a diversity of opinions, political views etc, Simple. Variety and spice of life and et cetera.

"you have found exception to any and all views I have"
I disagree! :| I'm sure you've sallied forth with views that meet with wide agreement, but in the interest of efficiency some of us tend to comment only where opinions diverge. Otherwise it gets circly and jerkly.

"the only person here who was even remotely understanding of my views on firearms was Captain R."

That's because he too is sitting in the dark, fondling his piece. (But thanks for clarifying that you're against gun control. I had no idea.)

"(living in sin for ten years now) all boys"

:eh:

Anyway, I'd be honored to have a beer and smoke a jay with you Simple. Just because I'd be doing lines and sipping tequila as well doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 10:40 AM

yes, I believe we are a nation of overly sensitive cry babies
any one can say almost any thing and some one gets all twisted out of shape over it.
How are you any different than the rest of us, Simple Mind? You seem to have strong opinions of your own and you're not at all shy about stating them. Why is it so distasteful for others to do the same?

Captain Relativity

02-25-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:
"the only person here who was even remotely understanding of my views on firearms was Captain R."
That's because he too is sitting in the dark, fondling his piece. (But thanks for clarifying that you're against gun control. I had no idea.)Sounds like a textbook case of penis envy and projection to me, Philboid. Hey, don't blame gun owners for your physiological shortcomings, it's irrational and, more importantly, it's not nice. :)

Kate

02-25-2010, 11:31 AM

I got yer back, Philby. You bring the brush.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/threadcount/Che_for_blog.jpg

Captain Relativity

02-25-2010, 11:36 AM

I got yer back, Philby. You bring the brush.
Better tell him not to forget his pepper spray.

nkb

02-25-2010, 11:45 AM

Simple Mind,
You completely missed the point of my analogy. Let me quote it, and explain what I meant.
:lol: Of course you're not a gun nut. Only the people who sit naked in a dark room and fondle their guns are gun nuts. But, if you ask those guys, they'll also say they're not gun nuts, only those guys that stick their dicks in the barrels of their guns, or jam them in their asses, are gun nuts.Many people always take their position on an issue as the reasonable one, and everyone else is off base. It's a common occurence, and I am definitely not immune to it.

In your case, you don't consider yourself a "gun nut" (a very subjective term to begin with), because you think it's reasonable to own guns. From your perspective, anyone who advocates gun control is unreasonable, as are the people who stroke their guns, naked, in the dark.

I interpret the Constitution differently than you, therefore my threshhold for what constitutes "gun nut" is different. My definition is anyone who vehemently opposes gun control, because they feel that the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to have the right to own and carry Uzis.

Now, the following was an analogy, and was not supposed to imply that you shared views with my neighbor.
You remind me of one of my neighbors. He is ultra-conservative (politically speaking), and believes every word that Rush, Glenn, and Sean say. The most "liberal" news source he listens to is Faux News.

To him, anyone who is less conservative than him is a flaming liberal.I was just trying to illustrate how people usually see their own position as reasonable, and everyone else is off.

In the case of my neighbor, he even sees moderate to somewhat conservative Republicans as liberals, just like someone like Keith Olberman sees everyone as a neocon.
Also, George Carlin's diatribe about who is classified as an idiot and a maniac, when talking about drivers on the road, comes to mind.This was another example of the same thing.

Carlin was humorously pointing out that when you are driving, you always assume that your speed is reasonable, while everyone who is going slower than you is an idiot, and everyone who is going faster is a maniac.

I hope that clears things up.

Kate

02-25-2010, 01:00 PM

Better tell him not to forget his pepper spraytruffle oil.

:thumbsup:

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 01:50 PM

How are you any different than the rest of us, Simple Mind? You seem to have strong opinions of your own and you're not at all shy about stating them. Why is it so distasteful for others to do the same?
it's not

I'm talking about how easily everyone in this country these days is offended by any and everything

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 01:51 PM

Simple Mind,
You completely missed the point of my analogy. Let me quote it, and explain what I meant.
Many people always take their position on an issue as the reasonable one, and everyone else is off base. It's a common occurence, and I am definitely not immune to it.

In your case, you don't consider yourself a "gun nut" (a very subjective term to begin with), because you think it's reasonable to own guns. From your perspective, anyone who advocates gun control is unreasonable, as are the people who stroke their guns, naked, in the dark.

I interpret the Constitution differently than you, therefore my threshhold for what constitutes "gun nut" is different. My definition is anyone who vehemently opposes gun control, because they feel that the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to have the right to own and carry Uzis.

Now, the following was an analogy, and was not supposed to imply that you shared views with my neighbor.
I was just trying to illustrate how people usually see their own position as reasonable, and everyone else is off.

In the case of my neighbor, he even sees moderate to somewhat conservative Republicans as liberals, just like someone like Keith Olberman sees everyone as a neocon.
This was another example of the same thing.

Carlin was humorously pointing out that when you are driving, you always assume that your speed is reasonable, while everyone who is going slower than you is an idiot, and everyone who is going faster is a maniac.

I hope that clears things up.

yes it does

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 01:56 PM

it's not

I'm talking about how easily everyone in this country these days is offended by any and everything
Who's everyone? And if you don't like someone's point of view and want to respond, how do you get that across without sounding like you're whining or personally aggrieved?

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 01:56 PM

:eh:

Anyway, I'd be honored to have a beer and smoke a jay with you Simple. Just because I'd be doing lines and sipping tequila as well doesn't mean we can't be friends.
you are confusing "don't do that", with "having never done that"

there is a good reason why I hate those drugs and no longer drink takillya
and whiskey, and vodka, and....

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/patje1/thdrunksmileys.gif

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 01:58 PM

Who's everyone? And if you don't like someone's point of view and want to respond, how do you get that across without sounding like you're whining or personally aggrieved?

fuck,

you know what I mean the PC phenomenon that has taken place over the last 20 or so years has turned us into a nation of easily offended crybabies

can't say or do anything without some one getting their panties all wadded up

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:01 PM

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:03 PM

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:04 PM

That's bullshit.

The motherfuckers complaining about others' political correctness are the crybabies. Own your shit and respect that everybody ain't gotta like it.
I don't agree

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:05 PM

seriously , someone calls you a wap, or a spic or a white trash whore, or nigger, or fag, or blanket ass wagon burner by all means knock the shit out of them

but don't get all hurt and start some movement to ban the word from the American lexicon, thats just silly imo
Well, that's your opinion. Everybody doesn't have to share it.

And there are no legally banned words in the U.S. We're all free to say what we like and pay the price for it, if there is a price to paid. That goes for everybody.

If you and I think that Christians are mealy-mouthed assholes and we take it to the public square, there's gonna be repercussions and they're gonna be ours with which to deal. The same goes for Christians who openly express their disdain for atheists though, of course, the Christians are, generally, going to have far more cover.

I don't know, but that seems fair to me.

Kate

02-25-2010, 02:10 PM

fuck,

you know what I mean the PC phenomenon that has taken place over the last 20 or so years has turned us into a nation of easily offended crybabies

can't say or do anything without some one getting their panties all wadded up

That's bullshit.

The motherfuckers complaining about others' political correctness are the crybabies. Own your shit and respect that everybody ain't gotta like it.

If the Ku Klu Klan has free speech rights, well, I do, too.

I don't agree

Hmm.
My personal experience with those that whine about "PC bullshit" are just not talented enough to get the insult across effectively within the rules of play.

:\

Bar's too high.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:13 PM

That's bullshit.

The motherfuckers complaining about others' political correctness are the crybabies. Own your shit and respect that everybody ain't gotta like it.

If the Ku Klu Klan has free speech rights, well, I do, too.
yes you do

thats my point,

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Hmm.
My personal experience with those that whine about "PC bullshit" are just not talented enough to get the insult across effectively within the rules of play.

:\

Bar's too high.

you all like the pc movement, I thinks its insane

I treat everyone with respect, but I am not politically correct, and never will be

I have yet and won't resort to insults here in this discussion, thats not respectful

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:16 PM

yes you do

thats my point,
So, what's the problem with people bitching about remarks and actions they find offensive? It's not like this is a new phenomenon. People have been doing this, like, forever. Only now it's mostly fodder for mass media entertainment instead of leading to actual violent reprisals like in decades and centuries past.

Kate

02-25-2010, 02:17 PM

you all like the pc movement, I thinks its insane

...says the gun nut.

:P

Kate

02-25-2010, 02:18 PM

So, what's the problem with people bitching about remarks and actions they find offensive? It's not like this is a new phenomenon. People have been doing this, like, forever. Only now it's mostly fodder for mass media entertainment instead of leading to actual violent reprisals like in decades and centuries past.

Because the whiney wanna-be-non-PC bitches want to be able to dish it out, while not having to take it.

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:19 PM

you all like the pc movement, I thinks its insane
No, I'm not a fan of so-called political correctness. Neither am I a fan of those who think they should be above criticism if it's warranted.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:19 PM

So, what's the problem with people bitching about remarks and actions they find offensive? It's not like this is a new phenomenon. People have been doing this, like, forever. Only now it's mostly fodder for mass media entertainment instead of leading to actual violent reprisals like in decades and centuries past.

are you going to deny we are more thin skinned than in years past in this country?

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:21 PM

Because the whiney wanna-be-non-PC bitches want to be able to dish it out, while not having to take it.
I don't think so

call me what you like, it matters not to me what words you use to attempt to get a rise out of me,.I control my level of "rise", your words do not

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:22 PM

...says the gun nut.

:P

I'm more of a midget goat porn nut

it's a sickness really

Kate

02-25-2010, 02:22 PM

Of course you don't.

That's the point, innit.

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:23 PM

are you going to deny we are more thin skinned than in years past in this country?
Yes, I am. I can probably go to Georgia today and call a random white guy a peckerwood without getting lynched. I doubt that would have happened 50 years ago.

Edited: In short, I think we're far more honest today about what we think and feel than we were allowed to be 50 or more years ago. That can be a pain sometimes (depending on which side of the aisle you happen to be sitting) but, ultimately, that's a good thing, I think.

Even an anonymous forum, like this one, would have been unfathomable 20 years ago. We say all kinds of things that go against the status quo. And some brave souls, like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins go a huge step further and dispense with the cloak of anonymity altogether. They get their rewards and pay a heavy price at the same time for the privilege.

nkb

02-25-2010, 02:28 PM

I think James Byrd Jr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.) might disagree with that (and he didn't even call them peckerwoods).

But, I agree with you, I don't think we're more thin-skinned now, I think it's more of a case that the repressed minorities actually daring to speak out these days.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:31 PM

No, I'm not a fan of so-called political correctness. Neither am I a fan of those who think they should be above criticism if it's warranted.
I agree with that

"i'm above criticism because I'm gay, or christian, or single mom, or black, or Indian, or Muslim,.or rich, or whatever"

Dr. King said (paraphrase) "judge people by the content of their character not the color of their skin")
and I take that further and include their social status, etc..

we have yet to achieve that, and a lot of that has to do with people of all colors and classes who want to be judged by any thing but their character,..who want to be judged by the "group" the belong to

nkb

02-25-2010, 02:33 PM

we have yet to achieve that, and a lot of that has to do with people of all colors and classes who want to be judged by any thing but their character,..who want to be judged by the "group" the belong toWait, what does this have to do with someone speaking out against discrimination? You're conflating two completely different issues.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:37 PM

Yes, I am. I can probably go to Georgia today and call a random white guy a peckerwood without getting lynched. I doubt that would have happened 50 years ago.

but I'm forbade by our thin skinned pc crap from saying nigger under any circumstances ,.(and no I don't call people nigger, as I said, I am actually a very respectful person)

if I call you a nigger,..and you break my beak, I had it coming,,but these days to even utter a insulting word has become a no no

hell we can't say gay, retard, fat ass, every one is getting in on the band wagon

when is it going to be enough?

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:40 PM

Wait, what does this have to do with someone speaking out against discrimination? You're conflating two completely different issues.
my point is people want to be judged for many reasons as belonging to a group, free from being judged on their own merits as a person, and remain above criticism for their lack of true character

and was directed at this post by irr.

Irreligious wrote http://ravingatheists.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?p=599717#post599717)
No, I'm not a fan of so-called political correctness. Neither am I a fan of those who think they should be above criticism if it's warranted.

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:43 PM

I agree with that

"i'm above criticism because I'm gay, or christian, or single mom, or black, or Indian, or Muslim,.or rich, or whatever"

Dr. King said (paraphrase) "judge people by the content of their character not the color of their skin")
and I take that further and include their social status, etc..

we have yet to achieve that, and a lot of that has to do with people of all colors and classes who want to be judged by any thing but their character,..who want to be judged by the "group" the belong to
Do you think I'm immune to criticism because I'm black or gay? I assure you, I'm not. Not even in direct situations.

Dude, white Anglo-Saxon straight people aren't the only ones who feel the sting of criticism and reprobation. We're all criticized by somebody who doesn't like us or what we're doing or what others think we represent. That's part of the fallout from living in a free society. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:48 PM

Do you think I'm immune to criticism because I'm black or gay? I assure you, I'm not. Not even in direct situations.

Dude, white Anglo-Saxon straight people aren't the only ones who feel the sting of criticism and reprobation. We're all criticized by somebody who doesn't like us or what we're doing or what others think we represent. That's part of the fallout from living in a free society. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
no I don't think you are above criticism when you fuck up

but many people , of all colors and creeds, seem to want to avoid any criticism (and accountability) by hiding behind a label of special privilege

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:51 PM

I'm more of a midget goat porn nut

it's a sickness really
I most likely should have said little person goat porn

sorry

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 02:52 PM

but I'm forbade by our thin skinned pc crap from saying nigger under any circumstances ,.(and no I don't call people nigger, as I said, I am actually a very respectful person)

if I call you a nigger,..and you break my beak, I had it coming,,but these days to even utter a insulting word has become a no no

hell we can't say gay, retard, fat ass, every one is getting in on the band wagon

when is it going to be enough?
There is no law preventing you from calling anybody a nigger. You do it at your own risk, of course. It works the same way for me and any black person who wants to toss around words that are intended to malign other groups of people.

If a black actor, like Isaiah Washington (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0913460/), formerly of the ABC-TV drama Grey's Anatomy ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413573/), wants to go around referring to one of his white, gay colleagues on the show as a "faggot," well, Mr. Washington is going to have to accept that it's going to piss off a lot fags and their supporters, and Mr. Washington's black skin ain't gonna protect him from their wrath.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:53 PM

we need this here

lol

http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/popklau.gif

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 02:55 PM

There is no law preventing you from calling anybody a nigger. You do it at your own risk, of course. It works the same way for me and any black person who wants to toss around words that are intended to malign other groups of people.

If a black actor, like Isaiah Washington (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0913460/), formerly of the ABC-TV drama Grey's Anatomy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413573/) wants to go around referring to one of his white, gay colleagues on the show as a "faggot," well Mr. Washington is going to have to accept that it's going to piss off a lot fags and their supporters, and Mr. Washington's black skin ain't gonna protect him from their wrath.
and it shouldn't

but many people want it to

anthonyjfuchs

02-25-2010, 02:56 PM

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 03:03 PM

and it shouldn't

but many people want it to
So what? Generally, they're not accommodated. If you have a problem with black people, gay people, Christian people, dog-loving people, people who like to wear socks with sandals, etc., you're still free to give voice to your point of view. The flip side of that is that others also have the right to be offended by it and say so.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:06 PM

One group certainly has become thin-skinned in the last few decades: racists.

Funny how some think it takes balls to drop an N-bomb on a black guy, but then they turn into whiny crybabies when said black-guy calls them out for being racist twats. How are you less of a crybaby for taking offense at the fact they've taken offense? How is an N-bomb "just a word," but the words that said black guy uses to tell you off for being an ignorant douchebag are suddenly more than "just words"?

You can use certain language in order to deliberately elicit a reaction, or you can try to dictate how other people are allowed to react to what you say. But you can't do both.
I never said they were more than just words,. if you could show me where I did,.

I believe whats good for one is good for all,..
I am not a racist, you may think that if you wish , but I assure you I never judge people by their skin color or sexual orientation , ,.(religion,, maybe),.but thats clearly a choice,
I believe in real equality,.not some warped equality based in some arbitrary pc view of what is right or wrong,..and I believe in calling a spade a spade,..not a "spade",.but,.

I am sure what with your better education and higher IQ that hurling veiled
insult my way is entertaining, except that I am not insulted, but it does make me wonder where the underlying anger comes from

it must be what they mean when they say "wild eyed liberal"

see I can do it also,..:thumbsup:

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:11 PM

So what? Generally, they're not accommodated. If you have a problem black people, gay people, Christian people, dog-loving people, people who like to wear socks with sandals, etc., you're still free to give voice to your point of view. The flip side of that is that others also have the right to be offended by it and say so.
but the whole pc thing is attempting to stop such speech isn't it

isn't Oprah all tit twisted over the use of nigga in rap music and trying to get it stopped?
what the hell difference does it make?

it would be ridiculous for a rapper to say

"sittin here chillin wit my ,.African American peers, in da hood

ok,.I won't attempt that again

:P

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 03:11 PM

Simple Mind, I'm trying to get a better handle on what, exactly, your complaint is? Do you think that you're being a denied a privilege that others are enjoying? What privilege would that be?

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 03:15 PM

but the whole pc thing is attempting to stop such speech isn't it

isn't Oprah all tit twisted over the use of nigga in rap music and trying to get it stopped?
what the hell difference does it make?

it would be ridiculous for a rapper to say

"sittin here chillin wit my ,.African American peers, in da hood

ok,.I won't attempt that again

:P
So what? Why can't Oprah be offended by the word nigger or nigga if it genuinely offends her? It sure as hell ain't stopping rappers from using the word. I still hear it blaring from the car stereos of random kids on the street, many of them middle-class surburban white guys, I might add.

It doesn't bother me, but I don't have the right to make everybody see it my way. The larger point is, it ain't illegal to say nigger, nigga or niggah in a rap song or in every day conversation for that matter. It's not the most socially acceptable language, but what you gonna do? You want to mount a campaign to liberally lace common parlance with the use of the word? You know, you're free to do that, if you like.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:15 PM

Simple Mind, I'm trying to get a better handle on what, exactly, your complaint is? Do you think that you're being a denied a privilege that others are enjoying? What privilege would that be?
no

I just think people ,.all people have become overly sensitive to speech,.everyone gets all up in arms over even the slightest perceived insult these days

I also think that trend is not helpful, because it's not genuine, it's not real,.it's just a false political correct ideal that is not based in any way in what people really are

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:17 PM

So what? Why can't Oprah be offended by the word nigger or nigga if it genuinely offends her? It sure as hell ain't stopping rappers from using the word. I still hear it blaring from the car stereos of random kids on the street, many of them middle-class surburban white guys, I might add.

It doesn't bother me, but I don't have the right to make everybody see it my way.
no they are not stopping,.and I applaud them for that,.I think Kat Williams does a bit about that ,.and resisting the pc sentiment to control speech

and I always get a kick out of "wiggers",, but I don't mind their,,umm,..confusion,..you know,."representin the burbs",.and such

I see it as no different than the kids of the 50's embracing blues based rock and roll,.

anthonyjfuchs

02-25-2010, 03:24 PM

I never said they were more than just words
Then you're being just as much of a thin-skinned crybaby as the people you claim are thin-skinned crybabies.

You can say whatever you want, no matter how many celebrities try to ban certain words, and I encourage you to do so. And the people you offend can call you out for whatever you said. And you can turn into a big crybaby about it if you want to, but remember: we're also free to point out that you're a whiny hypocrite for acting as if you should have the right to drop an N-bomb -- even though of course you'd never do that because you're such a respectful person -- but the person you drop it on shouldn't have the right to get offended by your hypothetical racism.

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from the consequences of speech.

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 03:26 PM

no

I just think people ,.all people have become overly sensitive to speech,.everyone gets all up in arms over even the slightest perceived insult these days

I also think that trend is not helpful, because it's not genuine, it's not real,.it's just a false political correct ideal that is not based in any way in what people really are
But why are you trying to control those people? Let 'em be, why don't you, and do your thang?

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:34 PM

Then you're being just as much of a thin-skinned crybaby as the people you claim are thin-skinned crybabies.

You can say whatever you want, no matter how many celebrities try to ban certain words, and I encourage you to do so. And the people you offend can call you out for whatever you said. And you can turn into a big crybaby about it if you want to, but remember: we're also free to point out that you're a whiny hypocrite for acting as if you should have the right to drop an N-bomb -- even though of course you'd never do that because you're such a respectful person -- but the person you drop it on shouldn't have the right to get offended by your hypothetical racism.

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from the consequences of speech.
no I am not

I am not the least bit hurt over any thing,.I am stating an opinion,.you can choose to look at it in any way that fits your world view,.that doesn't bother me in the least

I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are rather insulted by my opinion,.and displaying a degree of anger with your veiled insults directed at me,.you will notice I have not one time directed anything towards any individual here in regards to the subject at hand,.I am just expressing my opinion and not pointing any fingers at any one, I am sorry if you can not understand that
,.I find it amusing ,.I must be hitting a nerve

please continue ,.

Philboid Studge

02-25-2010, 03:36 PM

I got yer back, Philby. You bring the brush.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/threadcount/Che_for_blog.jpg

How awesome would that be? We could drive around the country in a van, solving initiating crimes. I hear Hummers are now out though.

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:36 PM

But why are you trying to control those people? Let 'em be, why don't you, and do your thang?
where have I mentioned controlling them?,.I am expressing my opinion that I think they are wrong,.and I support any one that will stand up to political correctness in any form,.and continue to speak freely

I do not support restricting their attempts,.but I still think they are wrong

Philboid Studge

02-25-2010, 03:38 PM

Sounds like a textbook case of penis envy and projection to me, Philboid. Hey, don't blame gun owners for your physiological shortcomings, it's irrational and, more importantly, it's not nice. :)

Penis envy and projection is a contradicktion!

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:39 PM

well,.I have to get ready to go to work, so I'll be out in a few
fun as always :thumbsup:

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 03:44 PM

where have I mentioned controlling them?,.I am expressing my opinion that I think they are wrong,.and I support any one that will stand up to political correctness in any form,.and continue to speak freely

I do not support restricting their attempts,.but I still think they are wrong
If you're telling them how they should feel and react to what they perceive as bigotry and prejudice, well, that's tantamount to attempting to control them. But you are free to attempt that, I suppose.

Philboid Studge

02-25-2010, 03:48 PM

I most likely should have said little person goat porn

sorry

you might have said little person goatse porn but I don't think one can be both

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:57 PM

If you're telling them how they should feel and react to what they perceive as bigotry and prejudice, well, that's tantamount to attempting to control them. But you are free to attempt that, I suppose.

expressing an opinion is now controlling other people?

nice

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 03:58 PM

you might have said little person goatse porn but I don't think one can be both
goatsee porn?,.even I can't stoop to that level

:vomit:

anthonyjfuchs

02-25-2010, 03:58 PM

I am not the least bit hurt over any thing,.
Except all of those thin-skinned politically-correct crybabies, right?

Or do you really want me to believe that you're disagreement with them is purely rational?

I am stating an opinion,.
Just like Oprah is when she says that she thinks certain racial invectives should be dropped from the lexicon.

Why should I treat your opinion as more valid than hers?

I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are rather insulted by my opinion,.
No you can't. You want to believe that your opinion offends me, so that you can lump me into your category of thin-skinned politically-correct crybabies.

I don't care about your opinion in the least. I'd just like for you to be able to understand that your opinion is hypocritical. If I can't accomplish that, so be it.

you will notice I have not one time directed anything towards any individual here in regards to the subject at hand,.
Nope. You've just spoken in vague generalities about how "everyone" is a thin-skinned politically-correct crybaby. I'm not sure how you expect to be taken seriously.

I am just expressing my opinion...
And I'm just expressing mine. Mine just happens to be that yours is garbage.

Are you going to be a thin-skinned crybaby about it?

I must be hitting a nerve
Right. Must be.

Captain Relativity

02-25-2010, 04:09 PM

Penis envy and projection is a contradicktion!:)You're tellin' me! And how you manage to pull it off is anybody's guess. (Malfunctioning corpus callosum perhaps?)

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 04:09 PM

Except all of those thin-skinned politically-correct crybabies, right?

Or do you really want me to believe that you're disagreement with them is purely rational?

Just like Oprah is when she says that she thinks certain racial invectives should be dropped from the lexicon.

Why should I treat your opinion as more valid than hers?

No you can't. You want to believe that your opinion offends me, so that you can lump me into your category of thin-skinned politically-correct crybabies.

I don't care about your opinion in the least. I'd just like for you to be able to understand that your opinion is hypocritical. If I can't accomplish that, so be it.

Nope. You've just spoken in vague generalities about how "everyone" is a thin-skinned politically-correct crybaby. I'm not sure how you expect to be taken seriously.

And I'm just expressing mine. Mine just happens to be that yours is garbage.

Are you going to be a thin-skinned crybaby about it?

Right. Must be.

my disagreement with them is what it is,,I am a pragmatist not a reactionary

you seem to be incapable of having a discussion without trying to insult me,.why is that?

are you threatened by my opinion? I don't think of you in terms of garbage, and I care little what you think of me,.they are my opinions formed over a lifetime
are you just that kind of person,.one would assume that when dealing with people of extreme iq's and education that one could expect not to see this kind of petty aggression,. the more you attempt to provoke me,.the calmer and nicer I get,.and isn't that the entire point I am making here?

very interesting

I'm sure in short order I can have you calling me names that would make your mother cringe, I am very good at inter web provocation

you will be fun :thumbsup:

gimme a hug,.it will do you good :wave:

Simple Mind

02-25-2010, 04:11 PM

ok,.off to the salt mines,.:wave:

anthonyjfuchs

02-25-2010, 04:18 PM

you seem to be incapable of having a discussion without trying to insult me,.why is that?
Why do you consider being called a thin-skinned crybaby an insult?

I don't think of you in terms of garbage...
Nor I you. I said I think that your opinion is garbage.

Why do you treat my opinion of your opinions as if it were my opinion of you?

Or: why do you define yourself in terms of your opinions?

the more you attempt to provoke me,.the calmer and nicer I get,.and isn't that the entire point I am making here?
Why do you think that I'm trying to provoke you?

I'm just expressing my opinion.

Why does my opinion provoke you?

I'm sure in short order I can have you calling me names that would make your mother cringe, I am very good at inter web provocation
Why would you be proud of something like that?

What do you accomplish by provoking people until you bring the worst out of them?

Irreligious

02-25-2010, 04:24 PM

expressing an opinion is now controlling other people?

nice
Expressing an opposing opinion is whining, crying and forcing political correctness on other people?

Nice.

nkb

02-25-2010, 04:42 PM

my point is people want to be judged for many reasons as belonging to a group, free from being judged on their own merits as a person, and remain above criticism for their lack of true characterI understood that, and I am saying that this is a completely different issue from political correctness.

Yes, there are people like that. The people who complain about derogatory remarks (aka whining PC crybabies) are not necessarily these same people.

nkb

02-25-2010, 04:45 PM

if I call you a nigger,..and you break my beak, I had it coming,,but these days to even utter a insulting word has become a no noI find it interesting that you find a response that involves physical violence more acceptable than the more civilized approach.

Isn't the offended person who becomes violent just as thin-skinned as the one that "just" complains?

anthonyjfuchs

02-25-2010, 05:26 PM

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:23 AM

I find it interesting that you find a response that involves physical violence more acceptable than the more civilized approach.

Isn't the offended person who becomes violent just as thin-skinned as the one that "just" complains?

you guys are always so literal

if I call a person a name and they get offended that their right,.if they beat me up, I have it coming

I'm not saying and have never said that people should just utter offensive remarks ,I don't go around offending people

what I said,.and still say is words only have the power you give them and when you deny the offender that power you disarm him,.how hard is that for you to understand?

I also say that we,Americans,.are a bunch of cry babies,.we wallow in victim hood, we are all way too easily offended, and I stand by that statement as my opinion,.if you disagree fine,.but don't try and get me to adopt your view,.that will not happen

the pc movement started in universities in the 90's and has moved into mainstream America,.I think it's stupid,.

grow a set and stop being such babies over everything America

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:34 AM

I don't think he's got a problem with people getting offended; he just wants to be able to dictate how they express their offense.

Punching him in the face = just fine. Complaining about being insulted = not okay.

Which is, if I'm not mistaken, the exact opposite of what we teach our children, no?

you may teach your kids passiveness ,I don't,. :bop: I should get that bumper sticker,."my kid can beat the shit out of your little honor student":rock: :D

complaining about being offended is in and of its self not what I have issues with,.what I have said,.is that people are too easily offended
I'm not talking about any one word or term ,.I'm speaking in general,.
every one every where in this country is always demanding their sensitivities not be harmed in any way, no one has any toughness any more
we want to sue people at the slightest provocation, we want to be rewarded for mediocrity, we have become a nation of people who view success as a right not a reward

I blame Mr. Rogers ,...every one is not special :P

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:36 AM

for the most part pc is only viewed favorably by people who attended an American university in the last 20 years in my observances

of course, they are so much smarter than the rest of us , it must be they way to go

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:42 AM

this always hit the nail on the head for me
"I'd like to find your inner child and kick his little ass"

that makes me laugh

nP3kDN0VbY0

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 12:42 AM

you guys are always so literal

if I call a person a name and they get offended that their right,.if they beat me up, I have it coming

I'm not saying and have never said that people should just utter offensive remarks ,I don't go around offending people

what I said,.and still say is words only have the power you give them and when you deny the offender that power you disarm him,.how hard is that for you to understand?

I also say that we,Americans,.are a bunch of cry babies,.we wallow in victim hood, we are all way too easily offended, and I stand by that statement as my opinion,.if you disagree fine,.but don't try and get me to adopt your view,.that will not happen

the pc movement started in universities in the 90's and has moved into mainstream America,.I think it's stupid,.

grow a set and stop being such babies over everything America
I'm not trying to get you to adopt my view, Simple Mind. All of I'm saying is that you're full of shit. I hope you don't mind my saying that. You shouldn't, since you have such a thick skin.

You certainly have a right to your opinion; everybody does. But you ain't no different than the rest of the alleged crybabies in America is all I'm saying. You have your sacred cows just like everybody else. You've demonstrated that here with your passionate defense of your interpretation of the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights.

Nobody, including you, is required to clam up just because somebody else doesn't want to hear criticism or a contrary opinion. It doesn't make you or them crybabies, in my estimation, just folks with their own opinions and sensibilities.

Of course, you're entitled to disagree.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:59 AM

Of course, you're entitled to disagree.

and I do

I don't care if you think I'm "full of shit" as you so eloquently put it
you want to run around draped in a flag of proper speech and thoughts always worried about who may take exception to your ideals (except those who you resent for having a view contrary to yours, and who of course are "full of shit") thats your choice

I am amused that the people who are most concerned with offensive insulting speech are the ones here who are showing a much quicker tendency to resort to just that, and little ole dumb me, who is defending free speech , even objectionable speech as vile as it may be, has not resorted to any thing close to that

very telling,.I guess tolerance can only be tolerated if it fits the views of the tolerant

perhaps the PC set should adopt that as their new slogan,..a small fee for usage will be appreciated :thumbsup:

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:04 AM

Relax, Simple Mind. I'm just stating my opinion. You ain't gotta like it. Otherwise, we're cool, right?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:13 AM

Relax, Simple Mind. I'm just stating my opinion. You ain't gotta like it. Otherwise, we're cool, right?
oh yeah I like you immensely, and respect your opinions and feel I can learn from you, but don't confuse that with me rolling over and being intimidated my your intellect

I base my opinions solely on my life experiences, which I will be willing to bet are far different than most people here

I try not to project any conclusions about a person based on a few forum posts, seems some here are not able to afford me the same, and in reality, that doesn't bother me

I am waiting for the first obligatory "white trash redneck racist" accusation :D one person has come close but fell just short, he should feel free to let himself go

when it comes to forum posting I assure you this ain't my first rodeo

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:21 AM

oh yeah I like you immensely, and respect your opinions and feel I can learn from you, but don't confuse that with me rolling over and being intimidated my your intellect

I base my opinions solely on my life experiences, which I will be willing to bet are far different than most people here

I try not to project any conclusions about a person based on a few forum posts, seems some here are not able to afford me the same, and in reality, that doesn't bother me

I am waiting for the first obligatory "white trash redneck racist" accusation :D one person has come close but fell just short, he should feel free to let himself go

when it comes to forum posting I assure you this ain't my first rodeo
I don't profess to be any great intellect, Simple Mind. I'm just a guy from the hood, and I do not refer to people as rednecks or white trash.

I actually despise the term "white trash." It's not my style to liken people to trash. "White trash" is doubly offensive to me because it implies that it might be natural for nonwhite people to be trashy and an aberration for white people.

Anyway, you have strong opinions and so do the other people here. It's all good, dude. :thumbsup:

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:29 AM

I don't profess to be any great intellect, Simple Mind. I'm just a guy from the hood, and I do not refer to people as rednecks or white trash.

I actually despise the term "white trash." It's not my style to liken people to trash. "White trash" is doubly offensive to me because it implies that it might be natural for nonwhite people to be trashy and an aberration for white people.

Anyway, you have strong opinions and so do the other people here. It's all good, dude. :thumbsup:
the term "white trash" doesn't bother me in the least
as to your other point, the human condition , both trashy and not, I believe, are pretty much equally represented in all races and cultures

no race has the market cornered on genius's,..or idiots, we all seem to possess plenty of both

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:54 AM

I was rereading and this struck me

I actually despise the term "white trash." It's not my style to liken people to trash. "White trash" is doubly offensive to me because it implies that it might be natural for nonwhite people to be trashy and an aberration for white people.

dude,. you're good, you took a totally derogatory term used to insult white people, and turned it into a black thing

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/751/1908407applaus6zz.gif

:thumbsup:

anthonyjfuchs

02-26-2010, 08:54 AM

We get it, man: you should be allowed to say whatever you want, but other people shouldn't. And that's just your opinion, but anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

every one every where in this country ...
Really? Every single one of the 300-million people in this country? Doesn't that make you the one wrong, since (according to you) all 300-million Americans disagree with you?

Do you even realize how much you whine about whiny politically-correct crybabies?

I have an idea: toughen up, Simple. Don't let those PC crybabies wound your delicate sensibilities.

inkadu

02-26-2010, 09:03 AM

the term "white trash" doesn't bother me in the least

So you won't be offended when I call you racist white trash.

Cheers.

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 10:29 AM

I was rereading and this struck me

dude,. you're good, you took a totally derogatory term used to insult white people, and turned it into a black thing

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/751/1908407applaus6zz.gif

:thumbsup:
Though not exclusively, "white trash" is often a slur that white people use against other white people.

What's the point of the qualifer "white" if not to separate those so-called trashy white people from all the other presumably good quality white people? Why is there no similar appellation for nonwhite people?

inkadu

02-26-2010, 10:39 AM

Fine. Be constructive.

Captain Relativity

02-26-2010, 10:43 AM

Why is there no similar appellation for nonwhite people?The devil's advocate might say: Because that would be redundant?
Everybody knows that white is right, right?

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 11:22 AM

The devil's advocate might say: Because that would be redundant?
Everybody knows that white is right, right?
Well, duh. But that's not even the point I'm trying to make. It's a very personal slur not aimed at people like me, but one aimed at white people who are being told, in effect, that they don't measure up to some perceived standard of whiteness. Weird as it sounds, I feel their pain, and there is no need for me to add to it.

Human beings, across the board, have an aversion to being devalued.

nkb

02-26-2010, 11:59 AM

you guys are always so literalWere you being figurative in this scenario? It wasn't obvious, if you were.
if I call a person a name and they get offended that their right,.if they beat me up, I have it comingSo, walk me through this scenario.

Hypothetically speaking (since you don't actually do this), you call a black person a nigger, and he punches you in the face. When you say that you had it coming to you, does that mean you take your beating, and leave, or do you hit the thin-skinned crybaby back?
the pc movement started in universities in the 90's and has moved into mainstream America,.I think it's stupid,.Do you have a hangup with people who you deem more intelligent than you, or who attended college? You seem to bring that up a lot.

nkb

02-26-2010, 12:02 PM

Well, duh. But that's not even the point I'm trying to make. It's a very personal slur not aimed at people like me, but one aimed at white people who are being told, in effect, that they don't measure up to some perceived standard of whiteness. Weird as it sounds, I feel their pain, and there is no need for me to add to it.Wouldn't the equivalent for black people be the difference between blacks and niggers?

According to Chris Rock, black people dislike niggers (as much as white people dislike white trash, I would guess). ;)

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 12:24 PM

Wouldn't the equivalent for black people be the difference between blacks and niggers?

According to Chris Rock, black people dislike niggers (as much as white people dislike white trash, I would guess). ;)
In my mind, they're not really equivalent, nkb. Generally speaking, there is no cavalier assumption that "black" is a standard to which others aspire. History, minority status and social position don't give us that luxury. That's not to say that there are no racist black people or black people who don't like white and/or other nonblack people. They exist, of course.

No, what Chris Rock was talking about was black people who embarrass us in front of other people, particularly white people, and confirm for others negative stereotypes about us. You'd be surprised how defensive and preoccupied a lot of black people are about that. Or, maybe you wouldn't be.

I could be wrong, but I don't think white people, in general, spend so much time thinking how other white people might reflect badly on them. White serial killers, bad white politicians, white people on welfare, etc., reflect only on themselves and are not a psychological burden that other white people have to bear. They're presumed to be aberrations.

I think it's different when you break white people down into ethnic groups, however. The cartoonish characters portrayed in shows like The Sopranos, for example, might be a burden to Italian-Americans who do not share the values and mores of such characters and their real-life counterparts.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 12:58 PM

So you won't be offended when I call you racist white trash.

Cheers.
you don't know me

why would that bother me?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:01 PM

We get it, man: you should be allowed to say whatever you want, but other people shouldn't. And that's just your opinion, but anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

Really? Every single one of the 300-million people in this country? Doesn't that make you the one wrong, since (according to you) all 300-million Americans disagree with you?

Do you even realize how much you whine about whiny politically-correct crybabies?

I have an idea: toughen up, Simple. Don't let those PC crybabies wound your delicate sensibilities.

I'm not whining I'm making a valid point,, trying to project unto me all because I challenge your feminine sensibilities,.yes I know you are a "man"

I've had one conversation, on pc.one,.thats not a lot,.you keep responding,
surely trying to get in the last word

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:02 PM

Though not exclusively, "white trash" is often a slur that white people use against other white people.

What's the point of the qualifer "white" if not to separate those so-called trashy white people from all the other presumably good quality white people? Why is there no similar appellation for nonwhite people?
lol

so no matter what the slur, it's all about you?

thanks for proving my point

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:07 PM

Wouldn't the equivalent for black people be the difference between blacks and niggers?

According to Chris Rock, black people dislike niggers (as much as white people dislike white trash, I would guess). ;)
well this is a valid point

I see that more often than "white trash" being used, "trashy" or just "Trash"
and "trailer park trash", seems every one who is of low standards must live in a trailer, I guess

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:08 PM

you don't know me

why would that bother me?
On an anonymous Internet forum, I wouldn't expect it to bother you. Inkadu's appraisal of you is inconsequential in that context. But if this were a pervasive summation of you, I think you'd begin to start internalizing it. Imagine if every 4th or 5th person you encountered summed you up this way. It would start to grate.

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:09 PM

lol

so no matter what the slur, it's all about you?

thanks for proving my point
It's not about me at all. Do you ever try to step outside of yourself to imagine how others might feel? I'm not talking about agreeing with them, but trying to see things from their perspective.

It doesn't take much effort to figure out that calling someone white trash is maligning them for not living up to a better standard of whiteness and that the ones who are saddled with that appellation, generally, wouldn't think of it as a compliment.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:17 PM

In my mind, they're not really equivalent, nkb. Generally speaking, there is no cavalier assumption that "black" is a standard to which others aspire. History, minority status and social position don't give us that luxury. That's not to say that there are no racist black people or black people who don't like white and/or other nonblack people. They exist, of course.

No, what Chris Rock was talking about was black people who embarrass us in front of other people, particularly white people, and confirm for others negative stereotypes about us. You'd be surprised how defensive and preoccupied a lot of black people are about that. Or, maybe you wouldn't be.

I could be wrong, but I don't think white people, in general, spend so much time thinking how other white people might reflect badly on them. White serial killers, bad white politicians, white people on welfare, etc., reflect only on themselves and are not a psychological burden that other white people have to bear. They're presumed to be aberrations.

I think it's different when you break white people down into ethnic groups, however. The cartoonish characters portrayed in shows like The Sopranos, for example, might be a burden to Italian-Americans who do not share the values and mores of such characters and their real-life counterparts.
so it's your assumption that when I see a low life person, who happens to be black, I equate him with all blacks?

that in a nation with the diversity of peoples we have and a culture that offers MANY examples of intelligent, productive, successful, talented,
black Americans

that I am unable, because of my natural inclination to "lump all into one" because I'm white, and that I am unable to discern a difference in character because I am incapable to see past the "black"?

very telling

and no I do not equate my self with "white trash"

I view my self in my own context, just as I view every one in their own context and their individual merits , or lack there of
but as I said earlier, I am subject to first appearance stereo types, like most of us are, but that never involves the color of ones skin
you know, if I see a man in a suit, trying to shake my hand, I just know he's trying to "pick my pocket", so to peak,.lol

and I've often said,.everyone is someones "trash"
I'm sure many college educated people are going to have an inclination to look down their noses at some one like me

thats their problem as far as I'm concerned

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:29 PM

so it's your assumption that when I see a low life person, who happens to be black, I equate him with all blacks?
No. It's the assumption that many black people make based on copious experience.

that in a nation with the diversity of peoples we have and a culture that offers MANY examples of intelligent, productive, successful, talented,
black Americans
I'm glad you see that. Some people don't. I have a "professional" job, and in that capacity, I adopt standard English as my primary means of communication. But you might be surprised how many presumably well-meaning white people I encounter who, inexplicably, decide that I might be more comfortable communicated to in some psuedo street jive lingo when they meet me. Granted, it's not every white person I meet who does this, or even a a majority, but it's just enough to make me wonder why they do it when I have clearly demonstrated that I am quite conversant in standard English.

that I am unable, because of my natural inclination to "lump all into one" because I'm white and unable to discern a difference in character because I am incapable to see past the "black"?

hmmm,.how odd
You seem to be taking this awfully personally. I did not accuse you of doing these things. However, there are other people who do. I've met them and continue to meet them.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:29 PM

It's not about me at all. Do you ever try to step outside of yourself to imagine how others might feel? I'm not talking about agreeing with them, but trying to see things from their perspective.

It doesn't take much effort to figure out that calling someone white trash is maligning them for not living up to a better standard of whiteness and that the ones who are saddled with that appellation, generally, wouldn't think of it as a compliment.

dude

you found a way to turn a slur against white people of low character into a slur about you

so who is it that is incapable of stepping out of what?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:30 PM

No. It's the assumption that many black people make based on copious experience.

I'm glad you see that. Some people don't. I have a "professional" job, and in that capacity, I adopt standard English as my primary means of communication. But you might be surprised how many presumably well-meaning white people I encounter who, inexplicably, decide that I might be more comfortable communicated to in some psuedo street jive lingo when they meet me. Granted, it's not every white person I meet who does this, or even a a majority, but it's just enough to make me wonder why they do it when I have clearly demonstrated that I am quite conversant in standard English.

You seem to be taking this awfully personally. I did not accuse you of doing these things. However, there are other people who do. I've met them and continue to meet them.

maybe I should have said "us"
my point still stands, you view yourself as a victim of ,..everyone, it would seem

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:35 PM

I'm glad you see that. Some people don't. I have a "professional" job, and in that capacity, I adopt standard English as my primary means of communication. But you might be surprised how many presumably well-meaning white people I encounter who, inexplicably, decide that I might be more comfortable communicated to in some psuedo street jive lingo when they meet me. Granted, it's not every white person I meet who does this, or even a a majority, but it's just enough to make me wonder why they do it when I have clearly demonstrated that I am quite conversant in standard English.

.
see now this is something that always baffled me,.when I was a kid in school, I always wondered why white guys would try and speak "black" when they talked to a black guys,.never made any sense to me

hell not even just back in school,.to this day I see it,.
they don't slip into "redneck" when they are talking to some farmer

always struck me as disingenuous

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:37 PM

maybe I should have said "us"
my point still stands, you view yourself as a victim of ,..everyone, it would seem
I don't view myself as a victim, Simple Mind. But I'm not oblivious to the, um, issues I must face, even if I don't let them get the best of me. You have the luxury of ignoring my issues, if you so choose, because they're not yours. You've got your own.

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 01:42 PM

dude

you found a way to turn a slur against white people of low character into a slur about you

so who is it that is incapable of stepping out of what?
Clearly, we're not seeing this from the same perspective. I don't know if there is any resolution to that.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 01:52 PM

I don't view myself as a victim, Simple Mind. But I'm not oblivious to the, um, issues I must face. You have the luxury of ignoring my issues, if you so choose, because they're not yours. You've got your own.
every one does

I don't take most thing personally and when things do irritate me, I try to put it in context
most things just aren't worth getting pissed about

having said that, I do get angry, but my actions are more important than my emotions at that point
if some one insults me, I generally just say ,.ok,.thats nice, and ignore them
and I don't see an insult behind every tree, when some one wants to make bald headed fat man jokes,.I don't get all up in arms,.
when black comedians do that "whit guy" schtick you know what I m talking about
that nasal sounding white guy talk thing they all do

I don't get offended, if they are funny I laugh, if they aren't I don't,.but it doesn't offend me that they are stereo typing white guys,, I know as well as black people do that it is a characterization and should not be taken any other way
it would just be stupid to get all riled up over something like that,

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:00 PM

Clearly, we're not seeing this from the same perspective. I don't know if there is any resolution to that.

resolution?
how does one resolve differences of opinion and perspective, I will talk honestly about most subjects (unless I'm just fishing for forum drama, then theres no telling what I might "believe" lol) I think many people when discussing things as ,,volatile isn't the right word,.any way, as this subject they tend to dance around

I don't

so you may think I'm full of shit, but you will get a new perspective, and one that others like me have, that because of political correctness, you may never hear, and that is a good thing, imo, so enjoy the ride we all may expand our knowledge with honest open discussion

:thumbsup:

nkb

02-26-2010, 02:05 PM

I view my self in my own context, just as I view every one in their own context and their individual merits , or lack there of
but as I said earlier, I am subject to first appearance stereo types, like most of us are, but that never involves the color of ones skin
followed by
I'm sure many college educated people are going to have an inclination to look down their noses at some one like me
So much for viewing everyone in their own context.

You seem to have just as many prejudices (if not more) than the average person, but you tell yourself you don't, because it doesn't happen to be based on color of skin.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:09 PM

followed by
So much for viewing everyone in their own context.

You seem to have just as many prejudices (if not more) than the average person, but you tell yourself you don't, because it doesn't happen to be based on color of skin.

thats how they may view me
not how I view them,.experience tells me this is often true
I will be nicer to them then they to me for the most part
hell I've seen it here already,.college people judging my lack of education, sublimely, but never the less

I don't really care,.it's great fun

you are one of the harshest here towards me, I'm sure you feel superior, and you are ,.in many ways,.

your feminine sensibilities were offended my me in the thread about guns, and know I will be your target,.fine by me,.gives you something to do besides call lily stupid

I enjoy being the forum instigator to some extent. I do it every where, I will always create posting , it's what I do, it almost beats having a real life, not that I would know

it is after all,.just the inter web
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2682/mk017ms5.gif

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 02:13 PM

I don't take most thing personally and when things do irritate me, I try to put it in context
most things just aren't worth getting pissed about
Neither do I, Simple Mind. I think I'm a pretty good sport when it comes to black jokes and gay jokes, for example. I try to take them in their proper context.

having said that, I do get angry, but my actions are more important than my emotions at that point
Yeah, I get angry sometimes, too. But I've never assaulted or killed anyone over a slur or an opinion. If I judge it prudent to do so, I speak up in opposition.

if some one insults me, I generally just say ,.ok,.thats nice, and ignore them
and I don't see an insult behind every tree, when some one wants to make bald headed fat man jokes,.I don't get all up in arms,.
Well, I seldom say it's nice when someone insults me. Sometimes I deserve it, and sometimes I'm man enough to admit it, however.

Like you, I don't see insults behind every tree, either. But if I think that a remark is unnecessarily mean-spirited or unfair, I ain't gonna cower because the person who said it won't like it. If he can share his opinion then I can share mine.

when black comedians do that "whit guy" schtick you know what I m talking about
that nasal sounding white guy talk thing they all do
That's not my favorite brand of humor, but I don't go ballistic over that any more than I do the Amos and Andy routine that some white and black comedians favor.

I don't get offended, if they are funny I laugh, if they aren't I don't,.but it doesn't offend me that they are stereo typing white guys,, I know as well as black people do that it is a characterization and should not be taken any other way
it would just be stupid to get all riled up over something like that,
Well, good for you. I hope you know that there are millions of black people who do the same. But comedy and sensibilities tend to be very individual things. Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I change the channel. There are few things more grating to me than an unfunny comedian. George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock and Wanda Sykes are among my favorites and none of them is known for shying away from racial humor, but they're all extremely funny to me.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:21 PM

Well, good for you. I hope you know that there are millions of black people who do the same. But comedy and sensibilities tend to be very individual things. Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I change the channel. There are few things more grating to me than an unfunny comedian. George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock and Wanda Sykes are among my favorites and none of them is known for shying away from racial humor, but they're all extremely funny to me.
Ralphie May is a white guy who can do black jokes and not offend,.he is funny to me
http://www.zvents.com/images/internal/2/6/2/0/img_210262_primary.jpg

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 02:23 PM

resolution?
how does one resolve differences of opinion and perspective, I will talk honestly about most subjects (unless I'm just fishing for forum drama, then theres no telling what I might "believe" lol) I think many people when discussing things as ,,volatile isn't the right word,.any way, as this subject they tend to dance around

I don't

so you may think I'm full of shit, but you will get a new perspective, and one that others like me have, that because of political correctness, you may never hear, and that is a good thing, imo, so enjoy the ride we all may expand our knowledge with honest open discussion

:thumbsup:
Your point of view is not a revelation, Simple Mind. Nor is it incomprehensible. I just don't agree with it because, from my perspective, it's very myopic, and only acknowledges the validity of your feelings and sensibilities. It's very closed-minded. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't dance around a topic, either.

anthonyjfuchs

02-26-2010, 02:25 PM

I'm not whining I'm making a valid point,,
That's what all the whiny PC crybabies say.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:27 PM

Neither do I, Simple Mind. I think I'm a pretty good sport when it comes to black jokes and gay jokes, for example. I try to take them in their proper context.

Yeah, I get angry sometimes, too. But I've never assaulted or killed anyone over a slur or an opinion. If I judge it prudent to do so, I speak up in opposition.

Well, I seldom say it's nice when someone insults me. Sometimes I deserve it, and sometimes I'm man enough to admit it, however.

Like you, I don't see insults behind every tree, either. But if I think that a remark is unnecessarily mean-spirited or unfair, I ain't gonna cower because the person who said it won't like it. If he can share his opinion then I can share mine.

That's not my favorite brand of humor, but I don't go ballistic over that any more than I do the Amos and Andy routine that some white and black comedians favor.

Well, good for you. I hope you know that there are millions of black people who do the same. But comedy and sensibilities tend to be very individual things. Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I change the channel. There are few things more grating to me than an unfunny comedian. George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock and Wanda Sykes are among my favorites and none of them is known for shying away from racial humor, but they're all extremely funny to me.

I do get a little peeved at people who because I will not just acquiesce to their views on a subject like this because they "just know they are smarter and more enlightened" than me resort to calling be bigoted and racist

it has already happened here,.if you met me, you would find my very funny , fair , generous, rude, opinionated, kind, and most likely you would enjoy my company

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:29 PM

That's what all the whiny PC crybabies say.

you have little to add outside of name calling

some people reach their summit sooner than others

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Your point of view is not a revelation, Simple Mind. Nor is it incomprehensible. I just don't agree with it because, from my perspective, it's very myopic, and only acknowledges the validity of your feelings and sensibilities. It's very closed-minded. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't dance around a topic, either.
thats fair, , many people who can't convince others that they are superior and their views are more valid tend to take that stance

it's nothing new

I think some people call it "elitist"

inkadu

02-26-2010, 02:32 PM

But if this were a pervasive summation of you, I think you'd begin to start internalizing it... Imagine if every 4th or 5th person you encountered summed you up this way. It would start to grate.

It might even make him start to come up with a million thoughts that begin with "I'm not a racist but," and "I'm not racist because."

Anyway, I don't think this guy's really racist racist. More like the racism of ignorance of racism; as if the entirety of the content and impact of racism is contained in the Hate Crimes section of the Bowdoin College Student Handbook.

And while we're talking about standard english and fielding, "ask the black man." I listen to a lot of radio, and there are some people I swear must be black. They speak perfect standard english, but there is the slightest lilt to their voice, or a stress on consonants or super clear enunciation. It's hard to pin down. But it seems completely unrelated to the fat vowels of a southern accent or the accent of the inner city. Michele Norris on NPR is one prime example. First, am I just imagining it? This is on the radio, of course, but I think I must have picked up on it on TV. Second, where is it from? Is it just that creepy unreal feeling black people might get from speaking standard english the way someone from Minnesota would that pushes them towards slight modifications? I know from learning foreign languages that when you get close to really capturing an accent that it's slightly unnerving. Or is it an upper class accent from a major city? Anyway, other people have noticed it, but nobody can tell me what it's about.

And, while we're on the topic, I've noticed that highschool/college female pattern of putting a question mark at the end of every sentence? It's becoming more common? On the radio? I think it's becoming more accepted? Even Terry Gross is doing more of it?

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 02:34 PM

I do get a little peeved at people who because I will not just acquiesce to their views on a subject like this because they "just know they are smarter and more enlightened" than me resort to calling be bigoted and racist

it has already happened here,.if you met me, you would find my very funny , fair , generous, rude, opinionated, kind, and most likely you would enjoy my company
I'm not judging you as to whether or not you're a racist. You seem like a good guy to me. There are worse things than being a racist. Yeah, I said that.

I've harbored racist beliefs in my life and I've even had racist friends of various backgrounds. But I don't tolerate that aspect of myself (when I'm made aware), nor do I tolerate it in other people, meaning I'm gonna say something if I think I need to.

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 02:51 PM

Anyway, I don't think this guy's really racist racist. More like the racism of ignorance of racism; as if the entirety of the content and impact of racism is contained in the Hate Crimes section of the Bowdoin College Student Handbook.
Oh, I don't think Simple Mind is, either. I think he thinks we all share a more or less "equal" experience. We don't, of course, and I don't think Simple Mind is terribly interested in examining how different they are and how that accounts for our very disparate perspectives on the very contentious issue of this thing called "race." Anyway, I like Simple Mind.

And while we're talking about standard english and fielding, "ask the black man." I listen to a lot of radio, and there are some people I swear must be black. They speak perfect standard english, but there is the slightest lilt to their voice, or a stress on consonants or super clear enunciation. It's hard to pin down. But it seems completely unrelated to the fat vowels of a southern accent or the accent of the inner city. Michele Norris on NPR is one prime example. First, am I just imagining it? This is on the radio, of course, but I think I must have picked up on it on TV. Second, where is it from? Is it just that creepy unreal feeling black people might get from speaking standard english the way someone from Minnesota would that pushes them towards slight modifications? I know from learning foreign languages that when you get close to really capturing an accent that it's slightly unnerving. Or is it an upper class accent from a major city? Anyway, other people have noticed it, but nobody can tell me what it's about.
Hmm. I don't really know. I do know that, for myself, I adjust my speech sometimes to sound less threatening and, maybe, subsconsciously, less black. Since I have a naturally deep voice, I'll purposely raise it a half an octave, which might account for a perceived lilt by some people. I guess I do it for economic survival purposes.

And, while we're on the topic, I've noticed that highschool/college female pattern of putting a question mark at the end of every sentence? It's becoming more common? On the radio? I think it's becoming more accepted? Even Terry Gross is doing more of it?
Yeah, I've noticed that, too. Could it be Valley girl envy? I'm nonplussed on that one, as well.

anthonyjfuchs

02-26-2010, 03:15 PM

you have little to add outside of name calling
So when I imply that you're a whiny PC crybaby, it's name-calling, but when you call "every person every where" a PC crybaby, it's just you expressing your opinion.

Got it. Hypocrite.

And hey: if you're dissatisfied with your own level of education, that's your problem. Don't act like those who went to college are to blame for whatever circumstances stopped you from getting an education.

Or do you prefer to play the victim?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:20 PM

nothing that has been directed towards me here is a surprise,
most of us sane none PC folk in this world, (mostly over 50, not exclusively but,..) have always been aware that when the PC set ventured out of the ivory halls of academia to proclaim the new unofficial law of the land would be political correctness and that this is not to be questioned, after all who could disagree with such enlightenment , as soon as some one questions the ideas of political correctness, they are set upon by the PC police and called "racist, homophobic, bigoted, stupid, ignorant, etc.. in shrill shout down unity of purpose for the Political correct gospel

in many ways, you sound like the theists you (and I) despise when they attack us for our audacity to question their gospel

congratulations

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 03:26 PM

Simple Mind, you are free to your opinions. There are no laws mandating that you think as I do. None whatsoever.

Likewise, there are no laws requiring me to share your views. And there we are.

By the way, I'm part of the over 50 crowd, too, so we have that in common, among many other things, I'm sure. :thumbsup:

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:30 PM

So when I imply that you're a whiny PC crybaby, it's name-calling, but when you call "every person every where" a PC crybaby, it's just you expressing your opinion.

Got it. Hypocrite.

And hey: if you're dissatisfied with your own level of education, that's your problem. Don't act like those who went to college are to blame for whatever circumstances stopped you from getting an education.

Or do you prefer to play the victim?

you add nothing ,.you are as predictable as any and all pc,ers
I make a point ,.you call me a racist, I defend my point, you call me a racist,.I accept that
you are a cry baby, the pc movement and all that wallow in it's patheticness are titty babies, and we who dare to disagree with it's tenants are racist and such

I'm sorry if your feminine sensibilities are offended,.but you are a cry baby,.if that offends you,.sorry

you can call me what you like,I won't cry about it, that being the difference ,. you on the other hand will get your panties all up in your twat in righteous indignation that some one may have an opinion that strays from your pc fervor and attack me and all I say with the insulting mannerism you claim to be so above in your political correctness

I don't claim to be above it, I claim not to be a butt hurt little titty baby over it

you on the other hand
http://localcrank.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/crybaby3.jpg

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:31 PM

Simple Mind, you are free to opinions. There are no laws mandating that you think as I do. None whatsoever.

Likewise, there are no laws requiring me to share your views. And there we are.

By the way, I'm part of the over 50 crowd, too, so we have that in common, among many other things, I'm sure. :thumbsup:
do you like the blues?
cause I do,.:thumbsup:

nkb

02-26-2010, 03:31 PM

thats how they may view meDon't backpedal now. You said you were sure that's how many of them view you. I'm just pointing out your prejudices.
not how I view them,.experience tells me this is often trueYet, you don't seem to want to allow Irr the same observations and conclusions.
I will be nicer to them then they to me for the most part
hell I've seen it here already,.college people judging my lack of education, sublimely, but never the less:lol: And you complain about others being thin-skinned crybabies?
From all your subtle and not-so-subtle digs at the college-educated, you appear to have quite a chip on your shoulder. Why do you keep coming back to whether someone is more educated than you, or whether someone is "smarter" than you? That seems to be quite a hangup, and maybe you need to work on that.
I don't really care,.it's great funOK.
you are one of the harshest here towards me, I'm sure you feel superior, and you are ,.in many ways,.Didn't you just get through telling me I shouldn't judge you without knowing anything about you (which, I might add, was not what I was doing, as I explained)?

What do you know about me that tells you that I feel superior to you? Because I'm disagreeing with you, and presenting my opinion? Are you sure it's me, not you?

And what exactly is "harsh" about my conversations with you? The fact that I don't blindly agree with you? I have never called you any derogatory names (unless you count "gun nut"), referenced your education level, or implied that I am smarter than you. So, what gives?
your feminine sensibilities were offended my me in the thread about guns, and know I will be your target,.fine by me,.gives you something to do besides call lily stupidIs this the way you deal with everyone who disagrees with you? Why is it a feminine quality to advocate reasonable gun control? Do you feel that I am "out to get you"?
I enjoy being the forum instigator to some extent. I do it every where, I will always create posting , it's what I do, it almost beats having a real life, not that I would knowWhy do you do this? What is your motivation to instigate, especially when you will take a viewpoint just to create conflict?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing some of this myself, and I have my own reasons, but I'm just curious about your motivation.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:32 PM

we really need a "drama" smiley

:P

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:33 PM

Why do you do this? What is your motivation to instigate, especially when you will take a viewpoint just to create conflict?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing some of this myself, and I have my own reasons, but I'm just curious about your motivation.
drama is the life blood of a forum

it's all about the drama

ever been to a board with out any?

might as well watch a tree grow, and you must admit , this place is more interesting when I do it, this thread is going along splendidly don't you agree?

:thumbsup:

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 03:35 PM

do you like the blues?
cause I do,.:thumbsup:
The real old stuff, yeah. I'm a big Bessie Smith fan. B.B. King? Not as much. Though, "The Thrill is Gone" is one of my alltime favorite tunes by him.

nkb

02-26-2010, 03:36 PM

Unfortunately, there is another name for what you do (if you're doing for the sake of riling people up): trolling.

I'm just saying.

No comments on the rest of my post?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:39 PM

Unfortunately, there is another name for what you do (if you're doing for the sake of riling people up): trolling.

I'm just saying.

No comments on the rest of my post?
I'm trying to get ready for work

didn't read it, not enough time to respond to all that

besides,.you are wrong and I am right

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 03:47 PM

Eva

02-26-2010, 03:50 PM

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:00 PM

Irreligious

02-26-2010, 04:01 PM

because after reading your pathetic posts about you new baby,(like you are the only one who ever did it) thats what I think

does your wife ever let you have your balls long enough to scratch them,..
Aww, come on, man. That's a really cheap shot and very beneath you, Simple Mind.

You say you're not taking any of this personally, so there is no reason to get so personal with another man about his wife and kid. You know there are few joys in life as big as becoming a father. I know you know that.

Let's raise the bar a bit.

And I still like you.

anthonyjfuchs

02-26-2010, 04:01 PM

Let me just clarify: it's not name-calling when you label "every person every where" as a PC crybaby? Just making sure.

you add nothing ,.you are as predictable as any and all pc,ers
I make a point ,.you call me a racist, I defend my point, you call me a racist,.
Oh, give it a rest you big baby. I never called you racist. I said that people who don't understand why they can't drop N-bombs in Harlem with impunity, and since you've assured us all that you're too respectful to use such vile language, that wouldn't be you, would it?

I accept that you are a cry baby
Name-calling, name-calling. I thought you were above such childishness.

No? Ah well: if it makes you feel better to call me a crybaby for having an opinion that strays from yours, then so be it.

, the pc movement and all that wallow in it's patheticness are titty babies, and we who dare to disagree with it's tenants are racist and such
I didn't say you were a racist, you monumental crybaby.

I said you are just as much of a crybaby as the people who call crybabies.

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:01 PM

soooo, when a man has "feminine sensibilities", that makes him a pc cry-baby?
do you also harbor weird opinions about women?
you think they are whiny or something? somehow weak?
do i sound like a valley grl?
oh yes

just wait til I tell you that I view woman as strictly sexual objects

people here will burst a roid

:D

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:02 PM

Let me just clarify: it's not name-calling when you label "every person every where" as a PC crybaby? Just making sure.

Oh, give it a rest you big baby. I never called you racist. I said that people who don't understand why they can't drop N-bombs in Harlem with impunity, and since you've assured us all that you're too respectful to use such vile language, that wouldn't be you, would it?

Name-calling, name-calling. I thought you were above such childishness.

No? Ah well: if it makes you feel better to call me a crybaby for having an opinion that strays from yours, then so be it.

I didn't say you were a racist, you monumental crybaby.

I said you are just as much of a crybaby as the people who call crybabies.
lol

you may be about to twist off

I will enjoy you

I really have to get to work

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:04 PM

Aww, come on, man. That's a really cheap shot and very beneath you, Simple Mind.

You say you're not taking any of this personally, so there is no reason to get so personal with another man about his wife and kid. You know there are few joys in life as big as becoming a father. I know you know that.

Let's raise the bar a bit.

And I still like you.

that was just an example of the fact that I am quite capable of hitting below the belt if I so choose

Kate

02-26-2010, 04:05 PM

Impressive.

nkb

02-26-2010, 04:07 PM

that was just an example of the fact that I am quite capable of hitting below the belt if I so chooseAnd you're the first one to do it. What was the point of this demonstration?

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:10 PM

gotta go

love you guys

Simple Mind

02-26-2010, 04:13 PM

And you're the first one to do it. What was the point of this demonstration?
Anthonyhas just repeatedly tried to provoke me to insult

I did not mean it in a mean way

just showing that I can,if I choose

nkb

02-26-2010, 04:13 PM

and I will add,Irr is the only one in this thread and the gun thread that I enjoy talking to, an subsequently the only one I bother conversing with seriously

he is honest, fair, open, polite and civil,

so excuse me if i ignore the rest of youIronic, innit? You only want to converse with the one that happens to be the most diplomatic (some would say PC). Meanwhile, the ones who are following your lead in bluntly stating their opinions, are deemed to be dishonest, unfair, and rude.

Could you please point out where I was not honest, fair, open, polite and civil?

nkb

02-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Anthonyhas just repeatedly tried to provoke me to insult

I did not mean it in a mean way

just showing that I can,if I chooseAre you really lacking self-awareness, or is this an act of instigating? I seriously can't tell.

The name calling was, at worst, on the same level as yours (which, you claim, doesn't bother you). So, explain again why you would take a cheap shot like that? How was his family relevant?

anthonyjfuchs

02-26-2010, 04:22 PM

To be fair, I really did think I was the first man in the history of the human race to father a child. I was completely unaware that this whole parenting thing has been going on for some hundred-thousand years now, and I'm just late to the party.

Anthonyhas just repeatedly tried to provoke me to insult
Wow, what a crybaby.

I was just expressing my opinion.

Notice how you cry harder the more I call you a crybaby?

so when I call you a feminine little bitch, do you get all mad?
Not in the least. In fact, it would be quite helpful. It would let me know that you're the kind of nitwit not worth listening to. Kind of like the rancid homeless man who stands near the I-95 on-ramp wearing a sandwich board with THE END IS NEAR.

because after reading your pathetic posts about you new baby,(like you are the only one who ever did it) thats what I think
Define "pathetic."

does your wife ever let you have your balls long enough to scratch them,..
Do you honestly want a response to this? Because I haven't been four in decades, so I don't remember how to answer.

I can do it with the best,..don't take it to heart,I'm just teasing
The best? Really? Because this is bush-league where I grew up. I mean, really: it's about half-a-step away from a "yo-mama" snap. This is the best you've got?

That, sir, is pathetic.

And just for fun: why do you assume I went to college?

inkadu

02-27-2010, 06:10 AM

I think he thinks we all share a more or less "equal" experience.

Yep. And when you're wrong on the facts, you can make all kinds of stupid mistakes. Of course, the question is, if we all have equal experiences, then why are black people more likely to be poor or in jail? There are three responses:
1. Denial -- No they're not.
2. Blame the race.
3. Blame the social factors (culture, racism, etc)

Or, in Simple Mind's case,

4. Redirection: Only people who went to college and wear panty hose think about things like that.

Anyway; he might be a likable guy, but if I wanted to hear recycled Rush Limbaugh screeds from the early nineties, I'd put myself into a hypnotic trance and imagine I'm listening to Rush on a beach in Thailand with Limbaugh and Ghoulslime having sex with boys and girls (respectively). It would at least add some freshness to the discussion.

Hmm. I don't really know. I do know that, for myself, I adjust my speech sometimes to sound less threatening and, maybe, subsconsciously, less black. Since I have a naturally deep voice, I'll purposely raise it a half an octave, which might account for a perceived lilt by some people. I guess I do it for economic survival purposes.

Half-an-octave. Crap, dude. So during the day, you're a tenor, but a night, it's all baritone.

I found I raise my pitch more than i should. In my case, I think it's just insecurity and trying to be as non-threatening. I'm not sure why that is, but I am bothered by it. You can buy new clothes or cut your hair, but talking in a different way really takes emotional effort. Society's codes are hard wired.

Yeah, I've noticed that, too. Could it be Valley girl envy? I'm nonplussed on that one, as well.

It just surprises me that it's considered appropriate to talk that way? I always associated it with insecure teen girls, and would think that's an association an adult would want to erase? I think they talk that way for the same reasons we raise our pitch -- to be non-threatening. Still, annoying. It offends my masculine sensibilities. Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed it.

Edit:

or 5. It's not about statistics, it's about the content of your character.

Irreligious

02-27-2010, 11:13 AM

Half-an-octave. Crap, dude. So during the day, you're a tenor, but a night, it's all baritone.

I found I raise my pitch more than i should. In my case, I think it's just insecurity and trying to be as non-threatening. I'm not sure why that is, but I am bothered by it. You can buy new clothes or cut your hair, but talking in a different way really takes emotional effort. Society's codes are hard wired.
Well, half an octave is probably an exaggeration. I don't think I can manage tenor on the dewiest day in July. I guess it's mostly a matter of consciously raising the pitch and limiting the bass tones in my voice, which is not really all that difficult an adjustment to make while you're actually thinking about it. Smiling helps, too, because it fools the rest of the rest of the body into thinking "hey, we're happy." I find that when I'm angry, my voice tends to go lower.

And I gotta say that it's strangely comforting to know that white guys with deep voices feel compelled to do this, too, on occasion. I honestly never really considered that they did, so I learned something. :thumbsup:

inkadu

02-27-2010, 11:29 AM

I smile, too, but, like my voice, it's mostly out of submissiveness, not a conscious desire to placate... I'm that guy that would get into fights all the time because the mook yelling at me would be asking, "You think this is funny? Why you smiling?"

The way I remind myself to lower my pitch is to talk like Bender from Futurama. "Hey, baby," is my anchor.

Irreligious

02-27-2010, 11:42 AM

Wow. Physical altercations as a result of smiling? What kind of rough crowd are you hanging with, man?

The last physical fight I've had with anybody was in 1968 on a school bus. I guess I've been mighty lucky. Or plenty wily.

inkadu

02-27-2010, 12:16 PM

1981. School yard. And it was only "boxing." It lasted all of one punch -- his.

When I was a social worker, I had some quasi-criminal clients give me a hard time for smiling. So I can imagine it.

Irreligious

02-27-2010, 12:55 PM

This guy has the opposite of the "problem" that you and I have. His natural voice is actually more comfortable at a higher pitch, but that and his natural, lilting southern cadences would not bode well for him in his chosen profession.
wWulZOKANB4&feature=related
The comments accompanying this video are mildly entertaining in their ignorance and vapidity. It's as though it never occurred to some of these people that a lot of African Americans can code switch ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching) on a dime.

I've witnessed members of other groups do it too, most notably some of my Sicilian-American brothers who grew up in urban neighborhoods here in the northeast. It's always funny to see it in action, though.

Captain Relativity

02-27-2010, 01:14 PM

Now that video was worth clicking on. Too bad it didn't continue on with him switching back into his newscaster persona. Funny stuff.

inkadu

02-27-2010, 01:14 PM

There's something similar to code switching, and I don't how to categorize it -- it's pronouncing names or words with their original accent. I think some comedian has a devoted world-changing character who pronounces, "Nicaragua" like a native but talks standard english the rest of the time. I'm sort of bilingual, and I don't like switching vowel systems for one word. But I think it's some sort of pride thing. Maybe if I actually grew up speaking spanish as a true first language and not as a semi-acquired second one, I'd feel differently. Another NPR exemplar: Mandelique delBarco.

There was a linguist who went around New York City in the 50's asking people to read a standard passage into a microphone to grab their accents. I was excited about the project until I started listening. Almost all of them were reading their version of standard english, and were at least subconsciously trying to tone down their accents. Back then it was considered slightly shameful, so it's no surprise that a professor with a microphone and a reading from John Steinbeck didn't get a good reaction.

And, yes, there are snakes in the country. Bugs, too. And this guy is too black to be on the news where I am. Oh, wait, no, he is. I almost forgot Oprah is proof there is no racism.

Irreligious

02-27-2010, 01:29 PM

Yeah, I think it was Dana Carvey on Saturday Night Live. He was spoofing the newscasters who, back in the mid 80s during the Iran-Contra affair, felt it was necessary to try and pronounce Nicaragua the way a Spanish-speaking person might. I doubt there's a word for that other than abject "pretentiousness."

inkadu

02-27-2010, 01:35 PM

Yeah, I think it was Dana Carvey on Saturday Nigt Live. He was spoofing the newscasters who, back in the mid 80s during the Iran-Contra affair, felt it was necessary to try and pronounce Nicaragua the way a Spanish-speaking person might. I doubt there's a word for that other than abject "pretentiousness."

I never noticed the same level of concern for the correct pronunciation of Kadaffi or Saddam Hussein. To hear tell, Saddam was on the rampage and Gomorrah had better watch out.

nkb

02-27-2010, 03:55 PM

I always try to pronounce foreign words or names correctly, if I actually know how to say them. I would like to think I'm not pretentious (who knows, maybe I am), and that it's due to me being fluent in the language, knowing the correct pronunciation, and feeling weird not saying it correctly.

Yes, it does still feel a little weird switching from English to pronounce something in the middle of the sentence in German, but less weird than butchering it.

Irreligious

02-27-2010, 04:10 PM

Well, if you actually know the correct way to pronounce a word in German, I wouldn't say it's pretentious if you choose to do so, though I guess it depends on the word. Folks can do what they like, but I don't see any reason to mimic a German accent when using a borrowed word like schadenfreude. At this point in the game, it has an Anglicized pronounciation for native English speakers.

We have tons of borrowed words like that in English, as I'm sure they do in other languages.

Edited: Of course, when it comes to proper names, I try to defer to the person who owns the moniker. If such a person prefers that I pronounce his or her surname as so-toe-MY-yoor instead of so-toe-my-YUR, I'll do my best to accommodate them.

psychodiva

02-28-2010, 08:08 AM

oh good- any hope for you lot learning to pronounce Iraq properly then ;)

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 09:09 AM

I usually pronounce it 'ir-rack' but sometimes I pronounce it 'ir-rock', and sometimes I pronounce it 'that filthy fucking shithole over there in the middle of no-fucking-where'. So which pronunciation is correct?

nkb

02-28-2010, 09:12 AM

The one that bugs me is Eye-Rack.

Irreligious

02-28-2010, 09:20 AM

I've heard it pronounced e-ROK, with the rolling "R" by Irqais. I suspect it might have an entirely different name in Arabic, though I'm not sure about that. I know Egypt is not Egypt at all in Arabic. It's pronounced MOS-ree. With the rolling "R," of course.

Edited: Not that we shouldn't try, but it's difficult for native English speakers to approximate sounds that don't exist in our language. I never could properly pronounce my ex-wife's first name, believe it or not. When we were introduced more than 30 years ago, she used an Anglicized pronounciation of her name, which I and most English speakers (including our daughter) use. But I remember being mildly shocked at the proper pronounciation of my ex-wife's first name when I first heard her father call her to the phone. To this day, I still do a bad job of approximating his pronounciation.

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 09:20 AM

I haven't heard it recently, what with all the earthquake coverage, but a years ago some talking head, can't remember who it was, repeatedly pronounced Chile - Chee-lay, strong emphasis on the Chee. Drove me nuts.

inkadu

02-28-2010, 09:44 AM

inkadu

02-28-2010, 09:46 AM

e-RAK.

New Rule: Don't invade a country whose name your citizens can not properly pronounce.

That would cut down on US adventureism, but watch out, Canada (excepting Quebec).

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 09:57 AM

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 10:00 AM

e-RAK.

New Rule: Don't invade a country whose name your citizens can not properly pronounce.

That would cut down on US adventureism, but watch out, Canada (excepting Quebec).Quebec is safe. Nobody pronounces it correctly. It's correctly pronounced kuh-beck, right? We (pretty much) all say kwuh-beck.

inkadu

02-28-2010, 10:09 AM

If the pronunciation rule goes into effect, you'll see a lot of countries adding vowels to their names. Those are tough. And Quebec is doubles safe because it has silly French vowels.

Cue-Bec. Heh.

Irreligious

02-28-2010, 10:32 AM

So what the hell's her name?! Jebus, don't leave us all hanging.
Sorry about that. I didn't mean to tease. But we don't do names here, or what's the point of an anonymous Internet forum? I was just using my daughter's mom as an example. I guess that was a bad example, since I'm not willing to share her actual name.

However, her name isn't Hoda, as in Hoda Kotb ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoda_Kotb) of NBC-TV's Today Show ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(NBC_program)), who is an entirely different Egyptian-American from the one to which I was married, but I haven't found a native English speaker yet who can pronounce that name the way it sounds in Arabic. Even Hoda Kotb, herself, Anglicizes the pronounciation.

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 10:44 AM

So her name definitely isn't Hoda. Got it (wink wink, nudge nudge). So Hoda is pronounced ho-duh, I'm guessing? That must be right. No clue about Kotb though. Double consonants are tricky.

Irreligious

02-28-2010, 11:01 AM

So her name definitely isn't Hoda. Got it (wink wink, nudge nudge). So Hoda is pronounced ho-duh, I'm guessing? That must be right. No clue about Kotb though. Double consonants are tricky.
Not quite. Arabic speakers have this, um, interesting glottal (I think that's right) sound in their language. It's produced at the back of the throat, for lack of a better way of describing it. It's a sound that does not exist in our language and is not easily produced by native English speakers.

Hoda's surname Kotb is actually pronounced something like kah-TEB, but for expedience, I guess, she pronounces it COT-bee.

inkadu

02-28-2010, 11:36 AM

Expedience maybe. Or maybe she's just keeping her head down. Kah-TEB is a close enough anglicization, but it doesn't sound at all European.

Victus

02-28-2010, 11:43 AM

Quebec is safe. Nobody pronounces it correctly. It's correctly pronounced kuh-beck, right? We (pretty much) all say kwuh-beck.

If you're french-speaking, it's qay-bec.If youo're english it's more like qwe-bec.

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 11:52 AM

Nobody says qwe-bec, with a short E. Everybody says qwuh, rhymes with duh, bec, rhymes with beck. Or they say kuh-bec. Where the hell do you live anyway, Quebec?

edit: and as far as the English are concerned, they mispronounce every fucking thing! Don't you just love the way they pronounce Nicaragua? :rolleyes:

psychodiva

02-28-2010, 12:13 PM

Captain Relativity

02-28-2010, 12:17 PM

We're not allowed to say tits over here. Or cunt. Cunt is a very, very offensive word over here. We Americans really are some sick fucks, I must say.

Irreligious

02-28-2010, 12:26 PM

Naming no names here- but what bugs me the most is not pronouncing (or even writing) pronunciation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation)properly!!!!!! they frequently get it wrong on the news and there are a few on here too!!!! so stop it already? alright?? :D
I am, very unfortunately, an extremely careless speller. There are worse spellers than I, but I am far from perfect at it. I'm also one of the most comma-happy sons of bitches you're ever likely to come across on the Internet.

For all that, I apologize (though, it's unlikely that I will be reformed at this point). However, please note that, despite my misspelling of pronunciation, I actually do pronounce the word correctly when I speak it. ;)

Edited: And if I can overlook the, um, casual punctuation many folks employ here (I ain't naming names, either), I'm hoping other folks will give me a little bit of license to be a somewhat horrible speller and an even worse proof-reader.