The DaVinci Code

[God, my arse]

The DaVinci Code has posed a lot of theories and many of which have been thoroughly researched. This proves the Evil that is Religion. To further prove my point I mention the Crusades, the purging of those of another religion and in modern terms, Jihad, religion is the Evil that breed true hate and bloodshed.

[Illuminati]

I'm almost finished "Angels & Demons" which is also by Dan Brown, it is a very good book, and I advise everyone to read it.

[StillSurviving]

The problem with this book is that it still maintains that Jesus existed in the flesh at some point. It was a fun read, but not much more.

[BaalDemon]

Yeah "Angels and Demons" was definately his best book, I really dont understand why people generally regard "DaVinci Code" as his best, hell I even put "Deception Point" above DC.

[God, my arse]

I believe that Jesus existed, I just don't believe he was the son of God. I believe that he was a sheister who took advantage of peoples need of hope in a time of Roman rule.

[PanAtheist]

I believe that Jesus existed.
Which Jesus?
The New Testament is so outrageously self-contradictory that you'd practically have to pick out a sentence and assert that "I believe *this* Jesus existed"!!

I see what you're saying, but frankly, because of the above, it is simply absurd and meaningless to say that "Jesus existed", (and it is best to be accurate about this, in order to counter the churches' rampant obfuscations).

It is not unlikely that the fabricators used *some* elements of folk-history at some stage in their fabrications, and of course, they *eventually* asserted that the stories that they had produced did tell about "real events".

Luigi Cascioli contends that the stories of Jesus Christ were fabricated around the historical person "John of Gamala". If you're interested in this I recommend reading his book "The Fable of Christ" which can be bought at LuigiCascioli.it (http://www.luigicascioli.it). Luigi Cascioli is actually taking an Italian priest to court for an abuse of popular credulity and for fraudulently presenting invented "facts" as being events that actually occured. (Way to go Luigi!)

A key point to all this is that, if a historical personage was used it was only to "anchor" their rampant fabrications at some point in history. (Notably just before the chosen land was devastated by the Roman Empire, and it's troublesome people decimated and scattered). There is nothing like a bit of truth to sell the biggest lie, is there?

Jesus never existed, and the gospels were just made up.

Earl Doherty in "The Jesus Puzzle" shows that the epistles were written before the gospels, and tell of a "cosmic" (ie. fanciful, "spiritual" ) Christ-being, with no earthly life to begin with.

Then the gospels were written, and a very few references to a "human" "Jesus" were then inserted into the epistles.

A big part of the gospel tales are built from astrological ideas and tales.

They are invented constructs. They are *not* garbled and mutated accounts of real events and people.

[Sandy]

I too read the DaVinci Code when it the best seller list from the NY times. I loved it! My grandmother told me that she had seen missing books from the bible that told of Jesus marrying Mary Magdelene and the possibility of producing a child.

I have no doubt that a Jesus of Nazareth may have lived during this time and may have been a preacher for God. We had a lot of those mentioned in the history of religion. I often thought that Empirical Rome may have been the reason for a desire for a new God. We have new religions starting here in America such as Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science and the Latter Day Saints of the Mormons. They are always looking for some God or illusion of Jesus that suits them. Let them follow whatever turns them on.

I loved Demons and Angels as I had been picking apart my father's f amily of catholics for years and loved the way Dan Brown exposed the vatican. It couldn't get much better than that. I loved the part where the Pope had all the marble statues castrated so the Cardinals wouldn't be turn on in a lustful way. I guess most of them were gay in those days. My kids were visiting the Vatican when they read the book and checked out thes hall of statues and sure enough they all had little plaster fig leaves pasted in place.

[God, my arse]

I have seen proof that there are records of the cruxifiction as the Romans were avid record keepers. But of course it may be a coincidence, I though still belive he existed I just believe he was a sheister, a leader of a cult. Christianity was to the Romans as the Raleens are to Christians

[PanAtheist]

I have seen proof that there are records of the cruxifiction
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

And on another note, one moment you are saying "proof of THE cruxifiction", and then the next moment "it may be a coincidence".

You aint convinced of these "proofs" yourself!!!

Anyways, please do say to what you are referring!

[God, my arse]

Yes, well First I will say what wonderful English you have, PanAtheist. I am merely saying there is speculative proof in the Archives of Edward Gibbon.

[Agia]

PanAtheist, you don't quuuuiiiite understand. The debate about Jesus is more on his divinity than on his actual existence. There is more than enough proof that he existed, what people wonder is if he was simply a Rabbi teacher or the son of God.
Why, laying in my closet is a Roman coin with his head engraced upon the back of it. These were made as soon as fifty years after his death. Look them up on the internet if you would like.
Jesus never existed, and the gospels were just made up.
Okay, that was pretty ignorant. The carbon-dating on scriptures and gospels from that time produce all the same matches to around two thousand years ago. And they all site records of Jesus' life, and they all come from different sources.
Of course, there could have been a conspiracy to create a false deity and create false records between people across hundreds of miles, who spoke different languages, all too confuse people who carbon date things 2000 years later. Yes, that must be it.
And Dan Brown really is more interested in shocking people than in actually writing truth. Please read:
Cracking the DaVinci Code by: Darrell Brock
The Truth Behind the DaVinci Code by: Richard Abanes
When Skeptics Ask by: Norman Geisler
Ekcetera...
And Digital Fortress was a lot better than The DaVinci Code either way. If you looked past the supposedly religion shocking items, you see a very bad plot. For instance the fact that the main antagonist was a cripple. and had revealed himself to his own butler as the mysterious master. Yet, before we know this, but after the event, the butler badmouths him and thinks fondly of the master, though they are one and the same. There were many contradicitions within the plot if you looked beyond the badly researched shockers.

[God, my arse]

I saw that to the plot was okay but the characters were paper thin. It causes me to suspect that perhaps Dan Brown chose that topic for it's controversy to gain publicity for his book.

(Am I paranoid Lol)

[BaalDemon]

The characters were paper thin? You must have been reading a different book than me, granted I read it a day after Angels and Demons so I had all the background from that and read the two books in two days so I cant be sure if it was because I got the characters from both of the books or not.

[God, my arse]

Yeah, I haven't read Angels and Demons I brought it but it disappeared in to my closet somewhere, don't worry it will turn up in a few years. (lol) The characters are paper thin though you can't really build anykind of reppore with them or connect.

[Adeldas]

I read Angels and Demons after The Da Vince code and have to agree that the story line was not quite as good. However the information he gives in Angels and Demons was just as important and worth researching. Having read Holy blood Holy grail and many of the other books on this subject, I have come across the Illuminati before, but i am not able to find out much about them except that they are the highest order of the masons. Has any one been able to find out any more about them.

[Adeldas]

Please do you’re self a favour and read the Da Vince Code. It is a much better story line. But these books are really not about the story, read between the lines and learn some truths. These books are a little like the movie Titanic, The main characters are fictional but they lead you through the story to the undeniable facts. Of course a little research is need to know what is fact and what is fiction.

[Choobus]

Please do you’re self a favour and read the Da Vince Code. It is a much better story line. But these books are really not about the story, read between the lines and learn some truths. These books are a little like the movie Titanic, The main characters are fictional but they lead you through the story to the undeniable facts. Of course a little research is need to know what is fact and what is fiction.
Then you might as well read holy blood holy grail, which is where all the interesting stufff comes from

[Adeldas]

True, very very true, along with History of the Knights Templars, Secrets of the Holy Grail, The goddess in the Gospels: Reclaiming the Holy feminine and so many more. But for some people who have no idea what has been hidden from them, it is a softer introduction to the subject. My point is, not all the interesting stuff comes for the one book. You have to read a lot more of these books to find all the facts that Dan Brown is referring to. His book is a good start.

[Choobus]

True, very very true, along with History of the Knights Templars, Secrets of the Holy Grail, The goddess in the Gospels: Reclaiming the Holy feminine and so many more. But for some people who have no idea what has been hidden from them, it is a softer introduction to the subject. My point is, not all the interesting stuff comes for the one book. You have to read a lot more of these books to find all the facts that Dan Brown is referring to. His book is a good start.
Ok, but if the story is as weak as angels and demons I don't think I'll finish it. Truly, that book was shit.

[Adeldas]

The da Vinci Code is a much better book than Angels and Demons, but if you are reading the Da vinci code for it's entertainment value only then maybe you shouldn't finish it.

[Philboid Studge]

My problem with The Da Vinci Code is not that it's poorly researched (which it is, see Agia's post # 11), but that the protagonists "find" the Holy Grail. The legend of the HG is one of the few interesting things to come out of Christian literature, and its enduring message has always been a beautiful beacon for atheists: Keep searching (for truth), and even though you'll never find it (God), the search itself will be its own reward. Brown's facile attempt to "solve" the mystery of the grail is disappointing to say the least.

[Adeldas]

Solving the mystery was only a conclusion to the book. He does not proclaim to know to whom the bloodline of Christ leads but only that there is one.

However I do not understand you criticism of the research done for this book. Dan Brown has said may times that not all the book is fact and not all the book is fiction. He was not out to write an other Holy Blood Holy Grail. He just wrote a mystery novel. A mystery not only within the novel but also one left for the reader after finishing to find what within the book is true and what was fiction.

And to the point someone made earlier that Dan Brown only wrote the book for the publicity it would get, I disagree. I think he was very brave to write a book like this.
It is a great thing he has done. He has everyone talking, and on this subject I think that is a great thing.

[Choobus]

Solving the mystery was only a conclusion to the book. He does not proclaim to know to whom the bloodline of Christ leads but only that there is one.

However I do not understand you criticism of the research done for this book. Dan Brown has said may times that not all the book is fact and not all the book is fiction. He was not out to write an other Holy Blood Holy Grail. He just wrote a mystery novel. A mystery not only within the novel but also one left for the reader after finishing to find what within the book is true and what was fiction.

And to the point someone made earlier that Dan Brown only wrote the book for the publicity it would get, I disagree. I think he was very brave to write a book like this.
It is a great thing he has done. He has everyone talking, and on this subject I think that is a great thing.
I admire Dan Brown's bravery. I just hope the pile of money within he now resides will keep him safe and sound so he can write more books that annoy Bishop Joey and his pals

[Adeldas]

He might have made a lot of money from this book. If Bishop Joey and his pals were only annoyed at him, that makes him a very lucky man. Thing could have been a lot, lot worse for him, if the clergy had wanted to. Believe me, if he had written this book now, with Pope Benedict XVI in "Power", thing would not have gone so easily for him.

[Adeldas]

Well that's the point isn’t it, he doesn't want to because that would be admitting guilt. And to the question of “what can he do”? You under estimate the Catholic Church.
You obviously don't know that he has Mr Bush and my dear Prime minister Mr Howard in the palm of his hand from before he was pope. Imagine what he can do now that he is pope.

[Kate]

Mr. Howard is PM of Australia.

[Adeldas]

Tony Blair is Pm of England . John Howard is Pm Australia, Yes

[God, my arse]

Outdated? hah... it is a far more appropriate system than that of other nations especially the US. It has stopped corruption and encourages democracy.

[Adeldas]

Outdated? hah... it is a far more appropriate system than that of other nations especially the US. It has stopped corruption and encourages democracy
.
Sorry! is it Australia your talking about, because that's not the Australia I live in. Sure we're not the U.S but give us time, we will get there.

[The Judge]

Then you might as well read holy blood holy grail, which is where all the interesting stufff comes from
See also The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception - more about the attempts of xtian "scholars" to withhold controversial infromation but interesting comments on the 'real' jesus and the influence of Paul on the direction that xtianity as we know it has taken.

[God, my arse]

Outdated? hah... it is a far more appropriate system than that of other nations especially the US. It has stopped corruption and encourages democracy
.
Sorry! is it Australia your talking about, because that's not the Australia I live in. Sure we're not the U.S but give us time, we will get there.
We will get there to what? the U.S. is? I sincerely I hope not, if you are arguing against me I suggest you undertake political studies to fully understand my point.