The Glorification of Music, and Art in General

[NihilistThug]

Music has no substance. Monkeys respond to rhythmic sounds, that is the only reason people like music. In terms of intellectual content all music pales in comparison to any twenty-page nonsense written by Aristotle. I really wish people would stop trying to act like music is so defining and special, and the same applies for art in general. The reason for the high popularity of music is the raising time preference (and stupidity) of the general public. They're unwilling and incapable of reading and thinking extensively, so they like their philosophy in three minutes with a catchy beat.

Yes, hip-hop is fake and it always has been. And screw these 'introspective' rappers and rock musicians who talk about racism and the enviroment. Nietzsche will smash Rakim and Public Enemy combined in a heart beat. He's more intelligent, more original and more right. Even when William James is outright absurd, he's more 'profound' than anything that Bach to Eminem will ever do. The world is a meaningless machine. Stop trying to ascribe importance and depth to arbitrary portions of it, people. The Universe doesn't care about you, and it never will.

And why is it people are so impressed with the opinions of morons who can't keep a stable relationship, make millions of dollars and manage to go broke within a few years. If anyone's opinions should be suspect, it's these people. Them, and government officials.

[Lundie]

Come to think of it, whatever happened to Culture?

One only has to switch on the telly and the radio to see that society is obsessed with talentless "celebrities" like Paris Hilton, Abi Titmuss and their equally banal compatriots. And don't even think about getting me started on all the reality shows along the lines of Big Brother and The Villa, which are rubbish by the way. One thing's for sure, our concept of entertainment hasn't changed all that much since our ancestors started watching gladiators hack bits off each other.

Why can't people find better and more productive ways to pass the time? Like spending countless hours reading forum posts for instance. :)

[NihilistThug]

Gladiatorial combat is at least honestly amusing. I can't even find something entertaining about television. I figure people watch it out of habit and lack of ability to do anything else.

[Lundie]

the porn channels are pretty entertaining. To me at least.:P

[Tulkas]

I am no fan of music, but still i understand how billions are. Music serves much purpose to people. It calms. It motivates. It energizes. It depresses. It does so many things in such a simple way. These rhythmic patterns apply to us because their profound sucess requires nothing but simple rhythmic noise.

I do have to somewhat agree with Nihilist, because i do know many friends who claim music has done profound things for them while Age of Reason rots under their bed. Just another subjective interest i suppose.

[Tenspace]

Music is a message medium, with the added benefit of engaging your focus. I credit a musician/poet with helping me lose my religion.

Music is a reflection of culture, not the driving force behind it. Did Gangsta Rap start the inner-city crime waves, drive-bys, etc? Or were the words of Public Enemy and NWA simply glamourizing an existing culture?

Nothing speaks to humanity's individualism like the human brain. Music (and art) are social tools, providing individuals with yet another semaphore to wave and gather other like-minded individuals into a shared commonality, whether it's Country, Rap, or Classical.

Tenspace

[Rhinoqulous]

Music has no substance. Monkeys respond to rhythmic sounds, that is the only reason people like music. In terms of intellectual content all music pales in comparison to any twenty-page nonsense written by Aristotle. I really wish people would stop trying to act like music is so defining and special, and the same applies for art in general. The reason for the high popularity of music is the raising time preference (and stupidity) of the general public. They're unwilling and incapable of reading and thinking extensively, so they like their philosophy in three minutes with a catchy beat.

Yes, hip-hop is fake and it always has been. And screw these 'introspective' rappers and rock musicians who talk about racism and the enviroment. Nietzsche will smash Rakim and Public Enemy combined in a heart beat. He's more intelligent, more original and more right. Even when William James is outright absurd, he's more 'profound' than anything that Bach to Eminem will ever do. The world is a meaningless machine. Stop trying to ascribe importance and depth to arbitrary portions of it, people. The Universe doesn't care about you, and it never will.

And why is it people are so impressed with the opinions of morons who can't keep a stable relationship, make millions of dollars and manage to go broke within a few years. If anyone's opinions should be suspect, it's these people. Them, and government officials.
While you seem to have an irrational anger towards music (what, did music touch in a naughty place as a child?), you seem to enjoy philosophy. A pretty good book about philosophy and music is Rhythm and Noise: An Aesthetics of Rock (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=jR4joJZBmf&isbn=0822317435&itm=1), by Ted Gracyk. Ted is a Kant scholar though, and it seems you're more into the "warm and fuzzy" philosophy of Nietzsche and other existentialists, but you might enjoy it.

Rhinoq

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

-snip-
You have to listen to music, otherwise taking drugs would be boring.

[Another brick in the wall]

We can argue 'til the cows come home if morality is subjective, but I think everyone can agree that art is subjective. There is no "right" kind of music.

[Inventor Of Gods]

Perhaps you should try listening to classical music. If Hip Hop is the standard by which you measure the value of music, then I can but imagine your frustration. (drunk)

[Little Earth Stamper]

Perhaps we don't have to spend all of our time pondering the deeper meanings of western philosophy.

Maybe sometimes it's okay to do things that are, you no, fun.

Oh, also, we could argue that music is more succesful at communicating ideas then philosophy, because I actually want to listen to music, and I'd rather get a root canal then read through any early twentieth century philosophical texts.

And what about Schoolhouse Rock? That taught people about grammar and the declaration of independance. Hell, when I was little, Bill Nye taught me more about the basics of science then any textbook, and used music to do it.

Cripes, I don't see a problem with ideas being presented in a way that's actually entertaining, but I guess that makes me a moron.

[alaspooryorick]

Music has no substance. Monkeys respond to rhythmic sounds, that is the only reason people like music. In terms of intellectual content all music pales in comparison to any twenty-page nonsense written by Aristotle. I really wish people would stop trying to act like music is so defining and special, and the same applies for art in general. The reason for the high popularity of music is the raising time preference (and stupidity) of the general public. They're unwilling and incapable of reading and thinking extensively, so they like their philosophy in three minutes with a catchy beat.
You seem to enjoy philosophy, and Heidegger has a number of essays on the "purpose" or worth of poetry, if you'll extend the term to music. Heidegger sees that we are revealed Truth (with a capital T) from these forms of expression. I'll give you that most of today's songwriters aren't composing with this Truth in mind, but that it may be a result from art. My other comment is that we are in a time where music isn't really saying much to people like you, but I believe that this was not always the case. Take Bob Dylan, for example, who stirred feelings of a revolution in a generation. Take the Beatles who influenced an entire culture. Music has power, but this depends on the giver and receiver.

If people are satisfied with their catchy tunes and whiny lyrics, then that's what we get. But I wouldn't so much blame the entity of music itself. It wouldn't be fair to criticize literature for things like "Bridget Jones' Diary" when things like "Ulysses" exist. It's all about supply and demand.

[NihilistThug]

Heidegger is boring. Existentialists bore me, and about the closest I get to them is Nietzsche. There is no 'worth' to anything, my point was that music (and poetry for that matter, gah) contains nothing that couldn't have been conveyed more quickly and clearly in a two paragraph essay. But, as I said, monkeys respond to rhythmic noises. And no, Wagner and Beethoven are not exceptions to this; they're an example of a time when people had a lower time preference and were less child-like. This means their music tends to be more elaborate and original. But they're just as meaningless.

[Another brick in the wall]

Efficiency isn't everything. You could get all your nutrition from eating Flinstone vitamins instead of real food, but which would you prefer?

[Little Earth Stamper]

Heidegger is boring. Existentialists bore me, and about the closest I get to them is Nietzsche. There is no 'worth' to anything, my point was that music (and poetry for that matter, gah) contains nothing that couldn't have been conveyed more quickly and clearly in a two paragraph essay.
...
Not true:

Schoolhouse Rock put things like grammar rules and the Declaration of Independance to music, and there very strong anecdotal evidence that these goofy songs and colourful pictures help people to memorize things that would otherwise be impenetrable.

I know from experience that I can't read a book of grammar rules for more then a paragraph before I pass out, but I can sing "Conjunction Junction".

Same with physics: My highschool textbook was dull as paint, but I passed the class because I remembered a number of concepts from the episodes of Bill Nye and Beakman's World I used to watch when I was a kid.

So, although it may appeal mainly to primitive monkeys, if your goal is to communicate an idea to us primitive monkey men, it's a very good idea to consider music and art.

[Spurius Furius]

The reason for the high popularity of music is the raising time preference (and stupidity) of the general public.
Bullshit! The reason music is very popular is that it makes people feel good when they listen to it. It is entertainment for most people, not a source of intelectual enrichment. Of course there are (stupid) people who idolize musicians and mistake them for philosophers, but they are a small segment of the population of people who like music. If you can back up your assertion above with a bona fide study, please cite it.

[NihilistThug]

Efficiency isn't everything. You could get all your nutrition from eating Flinstone vitamins instead of real food, but which would you prefer?
'Efficiency' is a meaningless term outside of pure physics. What I am saying is music has either no or severely stunted intellectual content, and what is there is probably incorrect anyway. People wailing and gnashing their teeth about it's 'profundity' and 'depth' are just making excuses for their mindless autoneural response to rhythmic sounds. Morons creating a bad justification for their bad ideas, just as mystics like to make up all sorts of bullshit for the quasi-sexual response people have to flailing about randomly and screaming.

And, as a matter of fact, I live almost entirely on shakes which contain calories, protein, fiber, some fat and sugar etc. I have exactly what is neccesary to keep me alive and fuel my fitness program, and I've gotten quite exacting as to how much of what I should have in it.

[Another brick in the wall]

Efficiency has meaning in many fields, particularly engineering. Fitness program eh? Trying to bulk up? Sorry to tell you, but outside of steroids and surgery, it's basically impossible to alter your body shape. You might as well reach for the ceiling to try to make yourself taller. Penn and Teller did a "Bullshit" episode on this.

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

I consider myself a fairly smart guy. I was a straight-A student, I read a lot, and I'm currently working on a Ph.D. in chemistry. But honestly, I think my brain would overload if I were doing super-intellectual things *all* the time. Sometimes I just like to kick back and enjoy some music or (gasp!) watch some TV.

As for art.........I like visiting the college museum and checking out some of the crap that's passing for modern "art", haha. Some of it takes a lot of technical skill, and I can respect that, but some of it is just ludicrous.

[NihilistThug]

Efficiency has meaning in many fields, particularly engineering. Fitness program eh? Trying to bulk up? Sorry to tell you, but outside of steroids and surgery, it's basically impossible to alter your body shape. You might as well reach for the ceiling to try to make yourself taller. Penn and Teller did a "Bullshit" episode on this.
Apparently you don't understand biochemistry or how human muscle fibre works. You burn more calories than you take in, you lose body fat. You strain muscle fibre frequently, it will regenerate. It's true that aerobic work (like shoveling coal) won't give you more mass, but that's because it doesn't give you micro-tears.
Anabolic steroids will indeed increase the rate at which this happens and your eventual size maximum, but no one is going to get buff without doing heavy weight training (altough a lot of people are naturally much larger or smaller than other people) and if you do heavy weight training you will get results, although some people will max out earlier because of their genetics.
People who claim that physical shape is unrelated to excercise are on crack. That's why all the chicks I know who eat mcdonalds and watch tv are fat and all the ones who go to the gym three hours a week have ripped abs.