Political Affiliation Poll

[Delta]

I'm curious to see what the distribution is. My gf's family is very fiscally conservative and has been brainwashed too much by Faux News to think that liberals are the worst thing imaginable. So I'm looking also for arguments for and against both liberalism and libertarianism. I don't need any info on conservatism, as it's clearly shit. Thanks for your participation :)

[Rhinoqulous]

Pretty weak poll. Liberal, Libertarian, Conservative and Other? That's too damn broad to find anything out. I know plenty of people who are economic/fiscal conservatives and social liberals, but this wouldn't be reflected in this poll. This poll would also group Socialism with Green ideologies, which isn't necessarily true. If you want to really see what the political ideology distribution here is, you need to expand your poll (but it seems you're more concerned with pro/con arguments for liberalism and libertarianism, which is a completely different story).

Rhinoq

[Tenspace]

Maybe a 1-10 scale, 1 being left (Michael Moore or Sinead O'Conner) and 10 being right (James Dobson, Tom DeLay)?

Ten

[Philboid Studge]

Who would a 5 be? (I'm pretty sure that no matter who you named, you'd get complaints from both the low and high ends of the spectrum.)

You're right tho, Rhinoq; I see elements of all four choices in my own politics -- especially "other."

[Rhinoqulous]

I think a 1 would be anarchy, and 10 would be Totalitarianism (but then Fascism doesn't really fit in the scale). We need a four-coordinate graph, with two coordinates representing economic views, and the other two social views.

In fact, I think something like this already exists. Be right back, off to search the world wide inter-web...

[Another brick in the wall]

I hate labels. I lean libertarian on many issues, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to ideas from other philosophies. I guess it's necessary to give things names, but sometimes I think labels just create an us vs. them mentality.

[Delta]

(but it seems you're more concerned with pro/con arguments for liberalism and libertarianism, which is a completely different story).
Correct, I should have perhaps worded this thing differently.

We need a four-coordinate graph, with two coordinates representing economic views, and the other two social views.
A 4-coordinate graph would definitely be more illuminating. The best possible option would be an N dimensional space (where N represented each minor issue). But that would be ridiculous of course.

I was really just looking for arguments for and against liberalism and libertarianism, as I'm kinda at a crossroads. I'm leaning liberal, but I wanted to see if there were any convincing libertarian arguments that you all might have. Screw the poll, I just wanted people to open the fucking thread :) If any of you would be willing to comment on this I'd appreciate it.

And to the suggestion that labels can represent US vs THEM mentality, that's probably true, but I try to be a freethinker first, and realize that just because I may agree with most of the liberal stances on things, that doesn't mean that I will agree with all. So I don't think I'm all that prone for that mentality, as I'm sure is the case for many people who visit this forum.

[Rhinoqulous]

Hey, found a four coordinate political graph here (http://politicalcompass.org/) if anyone is interested. It takes about 5-7min to take the poll. It divides into authoritarian/libertarian on social issues and left/right on economic issues, with a scale of 1-10 (negative numbers being on the left and libertarian coordinates). If anyone is interested, I scored -8.68 economic, and -5.9 on social (I thought I'd be further down on the social scale).

Rhinoq

[Viole]

Dammit, Rhinoq, I was just about to send everyone over there. I'm proud to say I'm a -10/-10.

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

My score is:
Economic Left/Right: 8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.46

I feel like the odd one out. :(

[Another brick in the wall]

Shame on you. You are hereby banished for life as a wrongheaded person.

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

Shame on you. You are hereby banished for life as a wrongheaded person.
No, not again!

[Another brick in the wall]

Which is curiously what a bowl of petunias thought as it fell to Magrathea . . .

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

Which is curiously what a bowl of petunias thought as it fell to Magrathea . . .
LOL, I love that scene. We would have known so much if we knew what the petunias meant.

[Another brick in the wall]

What does your political score mean?

[Amazonis]

Hey, found a four coordinate political graph here (http://politicalcompass.org/) if anyone is interested. It takes about 5-7min to take the poll. It divides into authoritarian/libertarian on social issues and left/right on economic issues, with a scale of 1-10 (negative numbers being on the left and libertarian coordinates). If anyone is interested, I scored -8.68 economic, and -5.9 on social (I thought I'd be further down on the social scale).

Rhinoq
I scored:

Economic Left/Right: - 2.36
Social/Authoritarian: - 5.38

I would have scored more left wing if they had asked beter questions. I do not have very strong opinions on some of the stuff they asked. I found it to concentrated on the culture of the country you live in, rather than the planet. To many economical and social questions and not enouph humanitarian and environmental questions.

[Another brick in the wall]

I think that quiz was designed by Libertarians. Some Libertarians think that history began with the US constitution.

[Viole]

Political Compass does have its problems. One might easily dispute their labels; libertarian is often used to refer to economic values, just as Marxism is socially liberal. Fascism, on the other hand, is as much an economic theory as a theory of government, and most certainly doesn't apply to anyone with dictatorial tendencies.

So our two-dimensional graph is little better than the standard one-dimensional left-right model. Most people would recognize fascism as being just as extreme as neo-liberalism, even though fascism is not pro-market in any real sense.

[Viole]

Maybe a 1-10 scale, 1 being left (Michael Moore or Sinead O'Conner) and 10 being right (James Dobson, Tom DeLay)?

Ten
Nice, Ten. I'd be somewhere around negative fifteen hundred.

[Another brick in the wall]

I'm not particularly keen on any of those people.

[Tenspace]

Maybe a 1-10 scale, 1 being left (Michael Moore or Sinead O'Conner) and 10 being right (James Dobson, Tom DeLay)?

Ten
Nice, Ten. I'd be somewhere around negative fifteen hundred.
You baby eater. :)

[Viole]

I think you're mistaking me for a 10. Or... no. They rape babies. But only after their born.

[Tenspace]

I think you're mistaking me for a 10. Or... no. They rape babies. But only after their born.
http://ravingatheist.com/forum/img/uploads/dgglass.jpg

:D

[NihilistThug]

I voted "other" because the Libertarian party is a nonsensical proposition. The idea of a political agency dedicated to NAP is self-contradictory. The fact is that 'libertarian' means anarchist, and for any political party or politically active group (such as the Cato institute) to claim it is just self-defeating.

[ghoulslime]

Frothing-at-the-mouth, give-me-liberty-or-give-me-death kind of guy here! I think U.S. democracy never really quite worked out. The judicial system is an utter farce. The materialistic, consumer-driven society sure ain't my thing. Still no separation of church and state! (Is this such a difficult concept for you cock-sucking Christians?) The US government is probably superior to most in the world - but still a joke.

Do I want to be instrumental in fixing the world? Fuck it. I’m done being altruistic. I don’t even bother to vote. I just want to be left the hell alone.

[Aristarchus]

Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.67

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

I got a -2/-1. I guess that makes me pretty bland-o.

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

I voted "other" because the Libertarian party is a nonsensical proposition. The idea of a political agency dedicated to NAP is self-contradictory. The fact is that 'libertarian' means anarchist, and for any political party or politically active group (such as the Cato institute) to claim it is just self-defeating.
I agree about the terminology, in the US there seems to be a confusion about it. I think we may agree on a few issues.

Are you by any chance an Austrian?

[NihilistThug]

I voted "other" because the Libertarian party is a nonsensical proposition. The idea of a political agency dedicated to NAP is self-contradictory. The fact is that 'libertarian' means anarchist, and for any political party or politically active group (such as the Cato institute) to claim it is just self-defeating.
I agree about the terminology, in the US there seems to be a confusion about it. I think we may agree on a few issues.

Are you by any chance an Austrian?
Having read "Theory and History" by Von Mises I would say I have to agree with about 75% of the Austrian methodology, and about 100% of their conclusions. I disagree with some of their ideas on epistemology but they're just philisophical quibbles that don't make any practical difference. So I'm a practical Austrian, if not by strict definition.
I don't believe in natural rights at all, and while I agree with Rothbard that this presents a difficulty from a libertarian point of view I'd say that's really too bad and you just have to deal with the fact that the Universe doesn't give a damn about mankind.