who created God?

[dogsdad]

Hey I wonder, coming from some one who grew up a Catholic :o

Where did he come from? Why is the world so messed up if he is running it? Bad job.

Why would there be over 4,000 religions? Wouldn't he want everyone on the same page?

What I want to know is who made God? Had to be created some way. Nobody knows and
why should we care. We are just animals in a zoo, of 6 billion people. Over populated far
too much.

If there is a God, it's Zeus. That used to be believed before man changed it for a more
believable BS. Made Jerry Falwell and Jim and Tammy Fay Baker rich very nicely.

Bush is Satan

[snap crafter]

Hmm, that's quite a tough question you thought up dogsdad, but I think I got one for ya. From a christian standpoint they would ignore the question entirely and say that god always was. They would say the world is messed up because of sin and people having free will. God is a wonderful money maker, everyone is willing to give up any freedoms, including money, if you throw in the word 'god'. And bush is satan. My stand point? There is no god, the world is 'messed up' because people who rule people plunder them for all their worth. We made god! We overpopulated because people have this assinine misconception that all life is precious and must be saved at all cost (cept for war of course). Bush isn't satan, satan wouldn't be so obvious in his blunders and would be far more attractive.

[Tulkas]

I'm no Theist, but i respect some reasoning that can be applied here. To say the universe always was is just as logical or perhaps less logical to say that our creator, exists outside time and space as we know it. THis deity created our world with different rules to govern our existance, and we cannot even begin to comprehend why or how he exists.

Some atheists on these forums generalize almost as bad as theists generalize about atheists...

[peepnklown]

I disagree.
To say the universe was always around isn’t just a statement made out of the air; it comes from observations and experiments of the universe. It comes from observing and testing solar systems around our solar system.
To say that a supernatural being created the universe is illogical because it cannot be observed or tested. It comes from a book written more than 2,000 years ago by people who did not understand how the world worked. (or have far less knowledge then we do now).

[dogsdad]

My random thoughts:

It just seems we will never get along. If the earth had 1 billion elephants, we would say there is too many. Are they not God's creatures?? Humans tend to think they are the hot thing, like Paris Hilton and such. Did God create her?? Sure looks like it, even though she does not profess the faith much at all.

Religion has been made up over time. I think that's it, pure and simple. If God is running this ball of a mess, he better and get on FOX news quickly. And send Jesus too. Maybe he will bring back the elephants as a miracle.

It's all a bunch of hogwash, nobody knows the truth. The ones that do are always wrong, does anyone remember Robert Tilton?? Man, that guy was crazy about the Lord and begged people to send him money on TV. Scared people into doing so.

Just ranting on a Friday morning. Mad about MJ getting off with no charges. GUILTY !!!!!!!
NABS (not a bush supporter) aka dogsdad :(

[snap crafter]

Hey, the jury decided the little bastard was just in it for the money, so haha all you MJ bashers.

[dogsdad]

In regards to Michell Jackson:

But he is surely a freak and a grown man should not sleep with little boys. Period. Why???
He likes the feel of young skin, and girls will tell. What a creep, what if every guy did this.

He should have got charged at least for providing alchohol to minors at his sex ranch. Now he has to flea the country. :rolleyes:

Besides his career is so over, and he is like OJ. I think he is guilty even if the dumb jurors don't. He never even testified he is such a chicken. But they forced the boy into doing so.

But I want to know if that is a wig he is wearing?? I know it's a new face.

dogsdad

[Rhinoqulous]

In regards to MJ,

WHO THE FUCK CARES.

[dogsdad]

Hey,

You obviously did not grow up in his generation. Some people do f*cking care. Just because you don't don't matter. But then again, he is no Frank Sinatra. A freak of nature. I am glad it's over with. We got a war going on, and 1,700 + dead. Bush must think he is on good terms with God. Or the oil companies.

This forum is such fun. :D

dogdad

[alaspooryorick]

Moving away from all the Jacko talk...

Who created God?

That's easy. A genius who learned to control others through good tricks (even in Exodus you have references of the magicians performing godly tricks). I apologize for the Star Wars reference, but take the stupid little Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. Someone bigger and smarter told them that C-3PO was a god, and they believed it. The idea of the Christian God is nice, actually. Someone that created you, loves you, gives meaning to your life, forgives you, and will eventually reward you for eternity.

People crave that meaning in their lives, so they gave it to themselves in the form of a rather good story.

[Tulkas]

Everybody here is confusing the organized religions that are set up to control and play with power over thousands of years with a simple theological ideal. Im not talking about the bible, koran, or any other scriptures as evidence. The philisophical idea...Your telling me the deist god....A god who created the world and does not interfere, is illogical? One may say this god is not signifigant, but certainly you can not say that matter always in existance within a world of rules that contradict its eternal existance, existed forever.

Yes its a possibility, and somewhat logical if thought through correctly, but there are many other scenarios with a god like figure far from anything man has thought of, that are much more logical in this area of the debate...(creationism)


Everybody that has answered this post so far has been nothing more than closed-minded atheism. Maybe it is christian torment that has warped your brains, but you come into this with an unfair look on true philosophy.


-Tulkas, Agnostic

[snap crafter]

Close-minded atheism comes from open-minded thought.

[Lurker]

People crave that meaning in their lives, so they gave it to themselves in the form of a rather good story.
As opposed to the other people who crave meaning in their lives so they gave it to themselves in the form of whatever they feel like making up.

[alaspooryorick]

Everybody here is confusing the organized religions that are set up to control and play with power over thousands of years with a simple theological ideal. Im not talking about the bible, koran, or any other scriptures as evidence. The philisophical idea...Your telling me the deist god....A god who created the world and does not interfere, is illogical? One may say this god is not signifigant, but certainly you can not say that matter always in existance within a world of rules that contradict its eternal existance, existed forever.

Yes its a possibility, and somewhat logical if thought through correctly, but there are many other scenarios with a god like figure far from anything man has thought of, that are much more logical in this area of the debate...(creationism)

Everybody that has answered this post so far has been nothing more than closed-minded atheism. Maybe it is christian torment that has warped your brains, but you come into this with an unfair look on true philosophy.
Tulkas: Philosophically speaking, okay. The watchmaker God of the Deists that set forth everything as we know it today, and disappeared, becoming totally absent from our other concerns--perhaps. I don't have a problem with this myself, and was not attacking that position. But again, I would attribute this "invention" as another means of explanation for our existence. This is getting all very Spinozaesque though, that God is the Universe. In that case, they become synonyms quite so and the idea of "God" becomes rather superfluous.

But, when we consider the loving God, the wrathful God of religions, etc., I see this as illogical. And this is where most people fall, categorically speaking. Religion, regardless of beliefs, is what has power. I respect your agnosticism (as I am somewhat of one myself), but the philosophical is often overturned in favor of the practical scientific or the hope-filled religious.

As for the closed-mindedness you speak of, I think it's fair to say that a large number of the posters on the forum are most familiar with Christianity and their perception of God. I personally am not well enough informed to make comments about other beliefs.

[nvxplorer]

Everybody here is confusing the organized religions that are set up to control and play with power over thousands of years with a simple theological ideal. Im not talking about the bible, koran, or any other scriptures as evidence. The philisophical idea...Your telling me the deist god....A god who created the world and does not interfere, is illogical? One may say this god is not signifigant, but certainly you can not say that matter always in existance within a world of rules that contradict its eternal existance, existed forever.

Yes its a possibility, and somewhat logical if thought through correctly, but there are many other scenarios with a god like figure far from anything man has thought of, that are much more logical in this area of the debate...(creationism)


Everybody that has answered this post so far has been nothing more than closed-minded atheism. Maybe it is christian torment that has warped your brains, but you come into this with an unfair look on true philosophy.
Okay, but this comes from the perspective of human logic. One of the Founding Fathers (I forget who) wrote: "The evidence for a creator is the creation." Very simple deist thought. The problem is, we are assuming the creation needs a creator. Perfectly logical, but not neccessarily true.

[Tulkas]

Ergo you cannot state that either is more or less illogical...

[nvxplorer]

Ergo you cannot state that either is more or less illogical...
Agreed, and that is the point.

It's a not a question of either. The question is whether something can arise out of nothing (or whether something has always existed). Be it the universe or god, something from nothing is illogical to the human mind.

There is a difference, however. The universe is before us. We know it exists. It's not that proposing an eternal creator is illogical; it's unneccesary, redundant.

Old woman: The earth is held in place by a giant turtle.
Priest: That doesn't make sense. Something has to be holding up the turtle.
Old woman: There's where you're wrong, father. It's turtles all the way down.

[ghoulslime]

It always raises a smile with me when Theists write rambling dialogues abut how the universe could not come into being by itself, and how it could not have always been…the same old same old…then conclude their masterful thesis by testifying there is an invisible man in the sky who has always been.


The Great Christian Position

1. Matter, which we can see and measure, could not have always existed, nor could it have come into being without a creator.

2. An omnipotent, omniscient, being, whom we have never seen, has always existed without a creator.

And they wonder why we laugh at them.

[whoneedscience]

Ergo you cannot state that either is more or less illogical...
Lack of evidence is no reason to entertain an idea. If you grew up completely isolated from the idea of a god, do you think you'd still be agnostic? Is your agnosticism the result of an inability to admit your own reasoning, or do you actually find it the most logical position? If it's the latter, I'd love to see your reasoning. Specifically, why do you feel a need to believe in a deistic god? Are you looking for a rationalization for morality or a sense of significance?

I only ask because I was agnostic for a long time, but found that I was just trying to justify a moral existence and soon realized that a belief in any god is simply ignorant and often dangerous.

[Tulkas]

Ergo you cannot state that either is more or less illogical...
Lack of evidence is no reason to entertain an idea. If you grew up completely isolated from the idea of a god, do you think you'd still be agnostic? Is your agnosticism the result of an inability to admit your own reasoning, or do you actually find it the most logical position? If it's the latter, I'd love to see your reasoning. Specifically, why do you feel a need to believe in a deistic god? Are you looking for a rationalization for morality or a sense of significance?

I only ask because I was agnostic for a long time, but found that I was just trying to justify a moral existence and soon realized that a belief in any god is simply ignorant and often dangerous.
I dont know if you have seen my arguments over morals on this site, but by no means do i need to rationalize morality. I do NOT believe in a deistic god, i was only playing devils advocate to further an argument.

I would say i am an agnostic because...I do not know much of every world religion, however, when i finally get around to completing my search, i can make a final conclussion. If my crusade will end, i dont know...But what i do know is i believe agnosticism to be the most logical choice of all beliefs. Yes more logical than atheism and theists alike.


As for my reasoning, where exactly would you like to start? Creationism? Purpose? History? Free Will? Ect...

[Amazonis]

Why would there be over 4,000 religions? Wouldn't he want everyone on the same page?
4,000 if you only count the larger ones. If you count all of the native religions around the world, some suggest it may be nearly 100,000.