Does Education=Atheism?

[mud]

Hi all, newbie online.
I've read a lot in these forums and found most posters to be much more highly educated than I am(High School).
Is there any corrolation between education and atheism?
I think there is most definitely, but some of the theists online here seem to pretty smart and yet they still believe-why?

[Bighead]

Answer to the first question: Yes, absolutely

Answer to the second: Denial that their whole life has been wasted believing a crock of shit

[mud]

That seems to be my conclusion too.They don't want to admit to being SO wrong for SO long.

[Lurker]

Answer to the first question: Yes, absolutely

Answer to the second: Denial that their whole life has been wasted believing a crock of shit
I deny that I'm in denial. :lol: :lol:

What about the people who think it through for years and years and then come to believe? They aren't "wrong for so long" as Mud put it. How do you explain the people with multiple PhD's in the area of science who come to believe the same thing I do? Oh yeah, I forgot, they're in denial too. :rolleyes:

[RedRob]

How do you explain the people with multiple PhD's in the area of science who come to believe the same thing I do? Oh yeah, I forgot, they're in denial too. :rolleyes:
I explain them as figments of your imagination. Name me one person whose credentials can be checked and I'll believe you.:|

[Lurker]

I explain them as figments of your imagination. Name me one person whose credentials can be checked and I'll believe you.:|
Maybe multiple PhD’s was an overstatment on my part. Here’s a few, there are many more especially if you go back in history. I’m not saying they are all christians - they’re just not atheists.

Edgar Andrews - BSc, PhD, DSc, FIM, CEng, CPhys, is Emeritus Professor of Material Science in the University of London

Robert Jastrow - Chief of the Theoretical Division of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (1958-61) and Founder/Director of NASA 's Goddard Institute

Dr. "Fritz" Schaefer - Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia.

Arno Penzias - shared the 1978 Nobel Prize for discovering microwaves in space.

Charles Townes - Nobel Prize in Physics work in quantum electronics

Arthur Compton - physicist who discovered what we call the Compton Effect, relating to X-rays

This one was interesting. I wonder who those 'dozen physicists' are?
William D. Phillips, - 1997 Nobel Prize in chemistry for using lasers to produce temperatures only a fraction of a degree above absolute zero. Phillips once quipped that so many of his colleagues were Christians he couldn't walk across his church's fellowship hall without "tripping over a dozen physicists."

[openly68atheist]

Hi all, newbie online.
I've read a lot in these forums and found most posters to be much more highly educated than I am(High School).
Is there any corrolation between education and atheism?
I think there is most definitely, but some of the theists online here seem to pretty smart and yet they still believe-why?
Nope, I used to think that too but... There are many highly educated genetecists, chemists, biologist who believe in God. Why??? Because the difference between us and them is we can accept our own mortality, we realize that even we are not forever

They can't, the fact that there is no afterlife scares them so much they would rather cowar into religion because they can't handle the truth. That they are not immortal

[Lurker]

Nope, I used to think that too but... There are many highly educated genetecists, chemists, biologist who believe in God. Why??? Because the difference between us and them is we can accept our own mortality, we realize that even we are not forever

They can't, the fact that there is no afterlife scares them so much they would rather cowar into religion because they can't handle the truth. That they are not immortal
Oh, I see. It couldn't be the evidence could it? It must have been their fear of mortality that lead them to believe in god. Have another drink my friend. :P

[PissBoner]

Oh, I see. It couldn't be the evidence could it? It must have been their fear of mortality that lead them to believe in god. Have another drink my friend. :P
What evidence ?

The evidence clearly points to the conclusion that your religion is made up.

Unlike those Islamists, whose religion is the real one.

I am waiting for the first Christian to explain to me how Jesus is God but Muhammed is full of shit.

One of the worst things about Christians is that so few of them can imagine what it would be like to
have been raised in another culture, say the muslim world. These same people touting the glory of
Christ would be touting the glory of Muhammed had they been born the middle east or
east asia.

The fact that your belief is a moving target based on your skin colour should give any rational person pause ....

[RedRob]

Oh, I see. It couldn't be the evidence could it? It must have been their fear of mortality that lead them to believe in god. Have another drink my friend. :P
If they had this evidence why don't they share it with the rest of the scientific community so it can be peer reviewed just like all other scientific evidence. So I think you need to go and have another drink since you are just imagining that there is evidence. I have researched Xtianity in hope of finding this evidence and I have found no credible sources with any such evidence. Can you please provide some sources for your claim?

PS
I'm looking into the scientists you have posted. I will not look into the ones from the past since science is based on current facts, research and knowledge. Scientific theories are constantly revised and improved with new evidence unlike religious theories that are locked to the original assumptions.
NOTE: This might not be true to you if you believe that the earth is flat and the rest of the universe revolves around it.

[MrsMoe]

Does education = atheism? I do not think so at all, I know plenty of educated folks who are firm believers in a God ideal - take George W Bush.

Now, if you were to ask do I think the LACK of an education would decrease a person's odds in accepting atheisim as fact, the answer would be yes.

An education is only one single step in the right direction of true "awareness" of the origins of man.

[ocmpoma]

I think that there is probably a correlation between the two, but not in the way that seems most likely. That is, I don't think that a thorough education will necessarily result in atheism. Rather, I think that people who seek out a higher education, being on average more inquisitive and open to new ideas, are more likely to lose faith in a religion that was taught to them while still young. More likely - not certainly. They are also more likely to come from a secular background and from educated parents who are thus also more likely to be less dogmatically religious. There are many, many intelligent and educated people who are still theists, deists, etc. There are also ignorant, uneducated atheists. The correllation is thus not causal. Also, religion is a matter of faith - emotion based, and thus ultimately unrelated to rational (quantitative) thought. That is why someone can be a groundbreaking PhD in physics and still believe that a sky man is watching us all - it's the same reason that a psychologist who is well-versed in the chemical processes and nuerological workings of the rain can still fall head over heels in love.

[Lurker]

If they had this evidence why don't they share it with the rest of the scientific community so it can be peer reviewed just like all other scientific evidence.
Is there a scientific journal dedicated to the study of god? I'm not aware of one.

So I think you need to go and have another drink since you are just imagining that there is evidence. I have researched Xtianity in hope of finding this evidence and I have found no credible sources with any such evidence. Can you please provide some sources for your claim?
What evidence have you examined, and what evidence would help convince you? That's a good place to start.

[alaspooryorick]

Much as I'd like to say yes, no, I don't see a direct correlation of education and atheism. Granted, it is likely that more educated people tend to be atheist, but there are loads of highly intelligent people and highly educated people that believe in God. I'm not saying that believing in God is equivalent to this example, but it's like a girl I knew in high school, who was in advanced physics and the top ten percent of the class...and calculated that the sun was 300 miles away from the earth.

I would say that the more educated you are, you tend to be far more skeptical though and more open to the possibility of atheism. It really depends on what you learn and how much you're willing to believe what you learn though. Knowledge is, though cliche, power. Taking theology really made me hate religion even more than I did prior to the class, although that was far from the purpose of the class or intention of the professor (a priest). Richard Rorty suggests that high school is designed to make you a good citizen and that the collegic level is to make you an individual. This is changing in recent times, but not a bad insight overall.

[RedRob]

Is there a scientific journal dedicated to the study of god? I'm not aware of one.
I’ve checked the first person on your list and he is a materials scientist and a chemist who has lost a debate between evolutionists and creationists back in the 80’s. Therefore he was peer reviewed and put down as a result. So no there is no Scientific Journal for studying god but the theory of creationism was reviewed by the scientific community and put down by the same community. So Edger Andrews is not a credible source as larger scientific community has rejected him and the theory that he supports. http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser/evolution/perspectives/durant.shtml


Rober Jastrow is an astronomer. He might (not sure about that) believe in god but he does not seem to support any current theory on creation and I could not find any pages where he states his religion. He also supports the theory of evolution. http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/quote_jastrow.html

What evidence have you examined, and what evidence would help convince you? That's a good place to start.
I've examined creationism. Something that incorporates science in it would convince me but creationism definitely does not do it for me since it is based on beliefs and some science. It also ignores alot of other scientific evidence.

Now where is your evidence? You still did not answer my question from before.

[Lurker]

I’ve checked the first person on your list and he is a materials scientist and a chemist who has lost a debate between evolutionists and creationists back in the 80’s.
You asked for people who believed in god and that's what you got. Don't ask me to defend their positions when I don't know what they are and I don't think they'd appreciate me speaking on their behalf.

I've examined creationism. Something that incorporates science in it would convince me but creationism definitely does not do it for me since it is based on beliefs and some science. It also ignores alot of other scientific evidence.

Now where is your evidence? You still did not answer my question from before.
No offense, but you're about the zillionth person to ask me that. I gave specific answers many times on this forum that relate to your question. The conversation isn't finished - it's ongoing so stick around. The posts are scattered here and there. I wish I could pull them together in a nice package for you but I don't have the time. Try searching "evidence" under my username 'lurker' and you might find something.

[Tenspace]

I think that there is probably a correlation between the two, but not in the way that seems most likely. That is, I don't think that a thorough education will necessarily result in atheism. Rather, I think that people who seek out a higher education, being on average more inquisitive and open to new ideas, are more likely to lose faith in a religion that was taught to them while still young.
To expound, I think that as a person becomes more educated, they rely less on magical or supernatural explanations for everyday occurrences around them. First, Santa and the Tooth Fairy fall victim to logic; later in life, the same process dissolves ghosts and pyramid energy. Some make the shift to include religion, whereas others will always maintain that last wall, never breaking it down.

Ten

[snap crafter]

Hey had to tell ya red, but lurker's so called 'evidence' is only evidence in her head. If you don't believe the subjective illogical phrases so steep in christian rant that you can't pull one single point out of it beyond a childish metaphor to a god that's supposed to answer everything. Don't expect to much from her, remember she is a close-minded 'educated' christian on an athiest forum.

[thomas]

To expound, I think that as a person becomes more educated, they rely less on magical or supernatural explanations for everyday occurrences around them. First, Santa and the Tooth Fairy fall victim to logic; later in life, the same process dissolves ghosts and pyramid energy. Some make the shift to include religion, whereas others will always maintain that last wall, never breaking it down.
It almost sounds as though you think the natural state for people is to believe in the supernatural and god ?

[ocmpoma]

I would say that the natural state of people is to believe what their parents and other authority figures tell them. Like the time I told my son that the crops covered in plastic that we were driving by was an aluminum foil farm. I let him believe it for a few seconds before explaining it to him. Then I said, "That's how theists are made!"

[Tenspace]

To expound, I think that as a person becomes more educated, they rely less on magical or supernatural explanations for everyday occurrences around them. First, Santa and the Tooth Fairy fall victim to logic; later in life, the same process dissolves ghosts and pyramid energy. Some make the shift to include religion, whereas others will always maintain that last wall, never breaking it down.
It almost sounds as though you think the natural state for people is to believe in the supernatural and god ?
Considering that the majority of babies born on the planet are indoctrinated into one form of religion or another by their parents, I'd have to say yes, the natural state for most children and adults is belief in the supernatural.

Ten

[Tenspace]

I would say that the natural state of people is to believe what their parents and other authority figures tell them. Like the time I told my son that the crops covered in plastic that we were driving by was an aluminum foil farm. I let him believe it for a few seconds before explaining it to him. Then I said, "That's how theists are made!"
:D:D:D

[Lurker]

Hey had to tell ya red, but lurker's so called 'evidence' is only evidence in her head. If you don't believe the subjective illogical phrases so steep in christian rant that you can't pull one single point out of it beyond a childish metaphor to a god that's supposed to answer everything. Don't expect to much from her, remember she is a close-minded 'educated' christian on an athiest forum.
Tell me where my evidence is wrong or false. I've spend the time laying it out, now you tell me where/why I'm wrong. Give details and cite references when replying. Meaningless claims like the rant above won't suffice.

And by the way, the last time I checked I'm not a "her". I've got the evidence for that too.

[snap crafter]

Oh, woah, that was laying it out lurker? I'd hate to see it when you try to hide it. Give me one of your points, and avoid the christian rant that lasts for 2 paragraphs about water being in 3 forms, and I'll tell you how your wrong. And I say to that, prove that your not a 'her'

[WITHTEETH]

I would say that the natural state of people is to believe what their parents and other authority figures tell them. Like the time I told my son that the crops covered in plastic that we were driving by was an aluminum foil farm. I let him believe it for a few seconds before explaining it to him. Then I said, "That's how theists are made!"
:D:D:D
Statistics do show this to be true generally. Although children get their peronality from their friends.

[GodlessHeathen]

And I say to that, prove that your not a 'her'
No, thanks. I'll take his word for it.

[ghoulslime]

I have a friend who is a professor at BYU in Provo, Utah. (I won’t elaborate beyond that, as I don’t want him to be identified.)
Suffice it to say he is a truly brilliant man. He is also very active in the Mormon Church.

A few years back, he came to visit me in another country. I had the pleasure of spending 5 stimulating evenings with this fine man. A wonderful friend he is!

One evening, our conversation led to the inevitable topic of religion. He and I had been missionaries together. There was no avoiding the subject.

I still remember verbatim what I said to him. I just asked him straight out, “insert name, I don’t want to offend you, but I really have to know. You are one of the most intelligent people I have ever known. How can you continue to believe in religion?”

I knew he was a very objective and fair man in other matters, but I still expected him to get defensive.

He didn’t. He was quiet for a long time. His eyes misted over. The tears almost spilled out.

He said, “Daniel, I don’t want to face the thought of life having no meaning. I can’t bear to think that when we are finished we return to nothing. I just can’t do it.”

His words still hang on my ears like they were spoken yesterday.

I really believe this is the position of many theists. They are not all blind and deaf idiots. They are not all stupid. I know for a fact there are many educated and intelligent people who hold on to their beliefs for the comfort it gives them.

Bear in mind this is Ghoulslime defending Theists – if that’s not the irony of the day!

[Amazonis]

Education does make it more likely that one will be an atheist, however it is only part of it. There are many diferent types of education (and i doubt some of them, such as religous education, would increase a persons chances of becoming an atheist). But in wealthy coutries with lots of science, atheism is more common, so education of science does increase the overall level of atheism. But in some places in the US, textbooks containing evolution contain warning labes! And this sort of thing makes me question what the future of atheism will be in some places...

[Tenspace]

Bear in mind this is Ghoulslime defending Theists – if that’s not the irony of the day!
The job's already gotten to you. :)

[Lurker]

Oh, woah, that was laying it out lurker? I'd hate to see it when you try to hide it. Give me one of your points, and avoid the christian rant that lasts for 2 paragraphs about water being in 3 forms, and I'll tell you how your wrong. And I say to that, prove that your not a 'her'
What did I 'lay out' that you want to discuss now? When did I rant about water being in 3 forms? Be specific and stop talking in code.

[openly68atheist]

Nope, I used to think that too but... There are many highly educated genetecists, chemists, biologist who believe in God. Why??? Because the difference between us and them is we can accept our own mortality, we realize that even we are not forever

They can't, the fact that there is no afterlife scares them so much they would rather cowar into religion because they can't handle the truth. That they are not immortal
Oh, I see. It couldn't be the evidence could it? It must have been their fear of mortality that lead them to believe in god. Have another drink my friend. :P
Lucker, here's a purely hypothetical question for you: Let's pretend that we proved with absolute certainty that there is no afterlife, would you commit suicide, since what's the point?

Also you have no evidence,which is why your religion created the concept called 'faith'. A belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Which is, in it-self completely illogical, to believe in something that is totally and completely unditectable. Why not then believe in the tooth fairy, or unicorns, how can you prove they don't exist?

Prove the tooth fairy doesn't exists, try your hand at disproving something you can't prove.

[Lurker]

Lucker (sic), here's a purely hypothetical question for you: Let's pretend that we proved with absolute certainty that there is no afterlife, would you commit suicide, since what's the point?
I wouldn't do it then....or now. It has no effect on me.

[openly68atheist]

Lucker (sic), here's a purely hypothetical question for you: Let's pretend that we proved with absolute certainty that there is no afterlife, would you commit suicide, since what's the point?
I wouldn't do it then....or now. It has no effect on me.
But lurker, if there is no afterlife whats the point, what the meaning of life, why not just commit suicide? Or are you willing to admitt that your life does have meaning even if there is no afterlife?

Also how is it going trying to disprove the tooth fairy? Kinda hard to disprove something you can't prove isn't it?

[Lurker]

But lurker, if there is no afterlife whats the point, what the meaning of life, why not just commit suicide? Or are you willing to admitt that your life does have meaning even if there is no afterlife?
Afterlife does not give my life meaning. The creator of life assigns the meaning. No creator=no meaning.

Also how is it going trying to disprove the tooth fairy? Kinda hard to disprove something you can't prove isn't it?
I don't believe in the tooth fairy because there is no evidence to support it. I believe in god because there is evidence to support it.

[RedRob]

I don't believe in the tooth fairy because there is no evidence to support it. I believe in god because there is evidence to support it.
I've asked you for this evidence and you have not provided it so stop mentioning evidence that you don't have. You are a delusional lunatic stuck in your own belief system and are incapable of having a free thought. I've read several forums with your 'evidence' and there was really no evidence listed anywhere by you. I don't understand why you even bother coming to this forum since you have no argument other then you childish: "Na aa my imaginary friend is real you just can't see him cause you are stupid" argument. Please don't bother posting any more I'm growing tired of posting to you. I've looked up the people you have posted and proved that one person listed should not have been listed by you at all and the other one has been disproved by the scientific community several times. Since you said you could provide people that have evidence and I've proven that their evidence is false you have now resorted to pure arrogance as your defenses. Fundamentalist lunatic moron is what you are LURKER so get lost.

[Lurker]

I give up. I guess directing him to my posts made it too hard. Oh well, I'm free to focus my attention on people who actually have something interesting to say.

[RedRob]

I give up. I guess directing him to my posts made it too hard. Oh well, I'm free to focus my attention on people who actually have something interesting to say.
I've read your posts and I still think you are fundamentalist lunatic moron with no real evidence or valid arguments.:D

[snap crafter]

God you demand specifics when it isn't a christian talking. Give us one of your 'evidence' ok, just the point, main topic, don't embellish. Is that too big a word for you? Embellish? Is it 'code talk' you side steppin' christian?

[Lurker]

Beat it kid you're bothering me. :mad:

[RedRob]

You beat it since you're bothering everyone else.

[snap crafter]

Provide your evidence in a logical sense without this crappy song and dance every christian adds to make it less obvious of what the evidence was! is that so hard if this evidence is convincing and 'proof'?

[Rhinoqulous]

Children, play nice, or no pudding for dessert.

[MrsMoe]

Children, play nice, or no pudding for dessert.
Do I still have to eat my meat?

[openly68atheist]

Afterlife does not give my life meaning. The creator of life assigns the meaning. No creator=no meaning.
Oh ok, so you would only commit suicide if we proved with absolute certainty that there was no God. Which proves one of my theories, that religion is just our survival instinct gonne man.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy because there is no evidence to support it. I believe in god because there is evidence to support it.
Oh and what is the evidence that there is no tooth fairy? that we can't see it, we can't hear it, we can't feel it, it doesn't show up on mri, catscan, infrared, nightvision, that it is totaly unditectible, is that your evidence? Because if that's how you can disprove the tooth fairy, then that should also disprove your God. Only that you dread you own mortality so much, that you're not going to let silly concepts like logic and reasoning get in the way.

You're beliefs are based upon fear my freind, fear of meaningless, fear of mortality. You are a coward.

[Lurker]

You are a coward.
Thanks!

BTW. My evidence against the tooth fairy lies in the fact that no adult believes it's real AND I know it's not real because the story goes that I'm the tooth fairy and so is every other parent AND there is no claim made to historical evidence, or any other positive evidence that suggests it was real at any time in history.

Of course I could be wrong. If you have compelling evidence please produce it because I'm getting tired of paying for my kid's teeth and I want a refund. If you really believe it's real then you've got to produce some kind of evidence to help convince me.

[Mog]

The creator of life assigns the meaning. No creator=no meaning.
This smells like cricular reasoning here. What meaning has the creator? Did he assign his own meaning or was it assigned to him by someone else? If you need a creator to assign you meaning, then does god need a creator to assign his meaning?
Why would an omnipotent and omniscient god even want or need to give everything meaning?

Lurker, how familiar are you with the Taoist philosopher Zhuang Zi?

I find your reasoning brings about this anecdote of his:

Hui Shi said to Zhuangzi, "I have a large tree, of the sort people call a shu tree. Its trunk is too gnarled for measuring lines to be applied to it, its branches are too twisted for use with compasses or T-squares. If you stood it on the road, no carpenter would pay any attention to it Now your talk is similarly vast but useless, people are unanimous in rejecting it."

Zhuangzi replied, "Haven't you ever seen a wildcat or a weasel? It crouches down to wait for something to pass, ready to pounce east or west, high or low, only to end by falling into a trap and dying in a net But then there is the yak. It is as big as a cloud hanging in the sky. It has an ability to be big, but hardly an ability to catch mice. Now you have a large tree but fret over its uselessness. Why not plant it in Nothing At All town or Vast Nothing wilds? Then you could roam about doing nothing by its side or sleep beneath it. Axes will never shorten its life and nothing w ill ever harm it. If you are of no use at all, who will make trouble for you?"

[Lurker]

The creator of life assigns the meaning. No creator=no meaning.
This smells like cricular reasoning here. What meaning has the creator? Did he assign his own meaning or was it assigned to him by someone else? If you need a creator to assign you meaning, then does god need a creator to assign his meaning? Why would an omnipotent and omniscient god even want or need to give everything meaning?
That's a lot of questions. The creator is whatever created us. He assigns the purpose. Can a wheel decide what it's purpose is? No, an outsider must do it - preferably the creator of the wheel. I think anything that gets created is done so for a reason, otherwise you wouldn't have created it in the first place.

Lurker, how familiar are you with the Taoist philosopher Zhuang Zi?
No.

I find your reasoning brings about this anecdote of his
If I understand the story, the outsider gives the tree a purpose not the tree itself. The same goes for you and me. Either someone else decides our purpose (parents?) or the creator of all. Self-assigned purpose sounds good, but is really meaningless.

[Mog]

That's a lot of questions. The creator is whatever created us. He assigns the purpose. Can a wheel decide what it's purpose is? No, an outsider must do it - preferably the creator of the wheel. I think anything that gets created is done so for a reason, otherwise you wouldn't have created it in the first place.
Except, we're not wheels, We're sentient beings. Wheels can't change their purpose intentionally. We can. Also, that logic assumes the existance of a creator. I'm not denying that everything has a reason. I'm denying that something needs to be intentionally created to have a reason.

If I understand the story, the outsider gives the tree a purpose not the tree itself. The same goes for you and me. Either someone else decides our purpose (parents?) or the creator of all. Self-assigned purpose sounds good, but is really meaningless.
Is it really self-assigned, or assigned by the world around you? The tree's purpose was not given by itself nor by its creator.

If we have meaning to the creator, the creator must have goals to achieve. Why an omnipotent god needs us to achieve his goals? good question. It also implies that the creator has a purpose. If he didn't, all your claims of needing a creator to achieve meaning is meaningless.
So who is assigning the purpose to the creator? If he did, then you are essentially arguing that his purpose is meaningless since you argued that self-assigned purpose is meaningless. If we did, then that would show that there is nothing wrong with the purpose having a non-divine origin for us (since the creator's purpose would be non-divine.)

[Little Earth Stamper]

Nope, I used to think that too but... There are many highly educated genetecists, chemists, biologist who believe in God. Why??? Because the difference between us and them is we can accept our own mortality, we realize that even we are not forever

They can't, the fact that there is no afterlife scares them so much they would rather cowar into religion because they can't handle the truth. That they are not immortal
Oh, I see. It couldn't be the evidence could it? It must have been their fear of mortality that lead them to believe in god. Have another drink my friend. :P
Martin Gardener explicitly states that he believes in god because it comforts him.

Basically, education doesn't lead to atheism, but it leads to a very different character of religious thought. And of course, it depends what the field is. Someone who studies Trilobytes will notice an incredible amount of animal diversity, and one which serves no purpose whatsoeverto humanity. A logical conclusion is to question whether god really put beasts on this earth to serve man.

A thourough science education tends to make you see man's place in the universe as utterly insignifigant, yet at the same time impresses on you how astoundingly incredible it is that there is life at all.

[snap crafter]

I'm still waiting for your undeniable evidence that you seem so willing to talk about but unwilling to present. Come on lurker give it up the secret.

[ghoulslime]

I'm still waiting for your undeniable evidence that you seem so willing to talk about but unwilling to present. Come on lurker give it up the secret.
I hear lurker's dog barking. "Dogma! Dogma!"

[Rhinoqulous]

Children, play nice, or no pudding for dessert.
Do I still have to eat my meat?
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?

[snap crafter]

I kinda prefer meat to pudding, never had a sweettooth.

[Lurker]

How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
Pink Floyd, right?

[Rhinoqulous]

How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
Pink Floyd, right?
yup

[WITHTEETH]

Well it matters what kind of education! Obviously if your studying ways to reason such as science, logic, algorithem, process then i can see that person becoming an Athiest. Then again if they would just follow their damn common sense in the first place.

"Common sense is not common"

[Tenspace]

Children, play nice, or no pudding for dessert.
Do I still have to eat my meat?
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
You beat me to it. :)

[Lurker]

Except, we're not wheels, We're sentient beings. Wheels can't change their purpose intentionally. We can. Also, that logic assumes the existance of a creator. I'm not denying that everything has a reason. I'm denying that something needs to be intentionally created to have a reason.
If you assume no creator then life has no purpose other than what each individual self-assigns. But that's not what we're talking about (I think). We're talking about life itself - what's the purpose of all life, not just your life.

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

Except, we're not wheels, We're sentient beings. Wheels can't change their purpose intentionally. We can. Also, that logic assumes the existance of a creator. I'm not denying that everything has a reason. I'm denying that something needs to be intentionally created to have a reason.
If you assume no creator then life has no purpose other than what each individual self-assigns. But that's not what we're talking about (I think). We're talking about life itself - what's the purpose of all life, not just your life.
Why does it have to have a purpose? It just is.

[Lurker]

Why does it have to have a purpose? It just is.
It doesn't have to have a purpose. I'm just saying it can't have one unless an outsider gives it one. If there is no outsider, then there is no purpose for life.

[Heather]

Back to the original point -

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

I thought that was interesting.

[snap crafter]

That doesn't make sense, a tree doesn't need a purpose, it just is. a bird's only purpose is it's instinct to mate and reproduce, why does the purpose come from somewhere else?

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

Back to the original point -

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

I thought that was interesting.
I came across that before, too. I found it interesting that biologists were more likely to believe in God than physicists (30% compared to 20%).

Also (to lurker), I believe the individual also has a say in what his/her purpose is (in addition to that assigned by parents, teachers, God, etc.).

[Mog]

Except, we're not wheels, We're sentient beings. Wheels can't change their purpose intentionally. We can. Also, that logic assumes the existance of a creator. I'm not denying that everything has a reason. I'm denying that something needs to be intentionally created to have a reason.
If you assume no creator then life has no purpose other than what each individual self-assigns. But that's not what we're talking about (I think). We're talking about life itself - what's the purpose of all life, not just your life.
You're right. I misunderstood your implications. I didn't know you meant life in general, as opposed to specific. However, I don't think it quite gets you off the hook. For life to have a purpose to its creator, it would have to be able to satisfy the creator's needs. Why would the creator have needs to satisfy? Evolution does give life purpose. Life exists to sustain the survival of a certain molecule called a DNA. I know our ego prefers to have the purpose be to serve something higher than ourselves, rather than something lower than ourselves, but its the humble truth. (And yes, I realize that it makes it circular since the prupose of DNA is apparently life, but I'm arguing that absolute meaning can't exist anyway, just relative meaning.)

So lurker, have you looked into the writings of Zhuang Zi since I last chatted with you? You claimed to have looked into other religions when you were testing your faith. Its surprising his name hadn't come up.

[Lurker]

For life to have a purpose to its creator, it would have to be able to satisfy the creator's needs. Why would the creator have needs to satisfy?
I'd say "desires" is a better choice of words than "needs" as the latter implies something the creator can't do without.

Evolution does give life purpose. Life exists to sustain the survival of a certain molecule called a DNA. I know our ego prefers to have the purpose be to serve something higher than ourselves, rather than something lower than ourselves, but its the humble truth. (And yes, I realize that it makes it circular since the prupose of DNA is apparently life, but I'm arguing that absolute meaning can't exist anyway, just relative meaning.)
Evolution is predicated on random chance and natural selection. It has no purpose. To say evolution has a purpose is to say the process has a driving force with a desired outcome or plan. It doesn't.

Absolute meaning/purpose can exist IF there is a creator of all. If no creator, then you are correct.

So lurker, have you looked into the writings of Zhuang Zi since I last chatted with you? You claimed to have looked into other religions when you were testing your faith. Its surprising his name hadn't come up.
No I haven't looked into it. Give me a brief overview, perhaps a website I can review.

[CFett]

Evolution does give life purpose. Life exists to sustain the survival of a certain molecule called a DNA. I know our ego prefers to have the purpose be to serve something higher than ourselves, rather than something lower than ourselves, but its the humble truth. (And yes, I realize that it makes it circular since the prupose of DNA is apparently life, but I'm arguing that absolute meaning can't exist anyway, just relative meaning.)
I like this thinking Mog, it works well with the thought that we're just animals that got lucky and evolved better brains. Even if we wipe ourself out, hopefully life it self will go on, and eventually, far down the road, another species is given the "gift" of higher intelligence, and maybe they'll do a better job than us.
In my view, higher intelligence is just kinda nature's way of rebooting. We're the final cycle because we're aware that we're here, and any being that's aware would be most likely to attempt to survive and repropagate it's species. But smart ones would really spread, and after a while they'd invariably take our route of excess.

Not a very cheery outlook, but it just means that I get to have as much fun in the ratrace as i can, without stepping on anyone else's toes while I'm out there.

And on the original subject, i don't think it's that education = atheism, rather that atheism = education.

[Nicole]

I'm thinking that the real question here is more like; does education = critical thinking. It doesn't. There are a lot of people out there who are victims of a bad educational system which taught them to memorize data and when they successfully spit it back out on a test they were given a nice piece of paper that allowed them to get a job. It, however, did not make them capable of critical thought.
Just cause you got the degree does not mean that you got the goods.
I'm a teacher and I have a sign on my classroom wall that says "Education is not filling a bucket, it's lighting a fire" I think that a lot of religious people have had their buckets filled rather than having having a fire lit.

[GodlessHeathen]

higher intelligence is just kinda nature's way of rebooting.
As a computer programmer, I really like that statement. May have to borrow it. . . .

[Mog]

So lurker, have you looked into the writings of Zhuang Zi since I last chatted with you? You claimed to have looked into other religions when you were testing your faith. Its surprising his name hadn't come up.
No I haven't looked into it. Give me a brief overview, perhaps a website I can review.
I guess I sort of assumed you'd just google him and see whats promising.

This is a website that I found when I googled him:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/taoism/cz-list.htm

I presonally learned about Zhuang Zi a few years back however, from a book named "Zhuangzi Speaks" which expressed the parables in comic strip format.

[Another brick in the wall]

Answer to the first question: Yes, absolutely

Answer to the second: Denial that their whole life has been wasted believing a crock of shit
I deny that I'm in denial. :lol: :lol:

What about the people who think it through for years and years and then come to believe? They aren't "wrong for so long" as Mud put it. How do you explain the people with multiple PhD's in the area of science who come to believe the same thing I do? Oh yeah, I forgot, they're in denial too. :rolleyes:
There are plenty of morons who also believe Christianity, Islam, etc.

[Marquis de Sade]

In reply to the topic question, I do think education = atheism - how can one believe in god after being tought proper science?

[Atheist@Umich]

By not accepting science, thats how. Religion got to them first, and beliefs must logically cohear, so no room is made for the new, scientific concepts.

An over-simplification, but I think that could be a big part of it

[miata]

The more educated person is more likely to doubt the entire Bible as the inspired word of god. It's such a primitive book full of mythology and other pagan ideas passed down from tribe to tribe.