Karma Police
06-23-2005, 08:35 PM
Hey, I'm new here and I must say that I love everyone's atheist enthusiasm. I just wanted to post a few "theories"/arguments that I was hoping some people could solidify or find holes in. I have one teacher who is a religious who said that if I can suffiently disprove god, he will stop being a priest. By responding to this post and helping me out, you will be helping to make a religious a layman again. Some things I put on this post may have ben posted before, but bare with me please. First I must explain my situation. I go to a Catholic school and am basically one of the 30 or so atheists in th school. So, first off I'm outnumbered. Secondly, I find that the reason why it's so hard to attack Christianity is because they've built a metaphorical fortress for themselves. First of, they always have the extremely obscure concept of "love" to fall back on. "Well, god loves you, no matter what you do," is the response I usually get to legitimate questions, such as "If Jesus is god, then why would he sacrifice himself so that god (himself) could forgive all sins," and the logical, yet more comical question, "If Mary was a virgin, then does that mean that Jesus popped Mary's cherry?". Their "fortress" also consists of dead "prophets", a book that has been changed more times than a Klan member killing innocent people, and a myriad of obscurities that are based on false pretenses, so they are impossible to argue.
Onto my argument for a NON-EXISTENT GOD. This is not an argument for atheism. Frankly, I don't have one. I just know God does not exist. First off, what I read on the first post of this website I use as a basis. Next I go into Kai Nielson's argument from his debate with Dr. J.P. Moreland that god cannot be referenced. Take the sentence "God made the heavens and the earth" and the sentence "Phil made the pasta and the brownies." Now, if the person I'm talking to asks, "Well, who's Phil?" I can say clearly "The man in the red sweater." But, if they ask, "Well, who's god?" I cannot reference him without confusing the asker even more. If I answered with "God is the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, transcendant being from whom all things are made", they would want to know:
1) Who is god, because I haven't pointed out a physical description of him,
2) Why he made everything,
3) How can he be omnibenevolent
4) How a being transcendant of us can create the earth, and
5) How I came about this knowledge.
Since I have no evidence, and because he is transcendant, I have no proof of the existence of god. There is no rational or logical way god exists. Which bumps me into another problem with the Christians at my school. If I say these things then their answer that I cannot seem to argue against is "Well what about on the spiritual level? You may have disproved him logically, but spiritually you can't say anyting. But don't worry, my son, god still loves you." At this point I want to become violent, but I remain cool. The second part of my argument is the validity of the bible. It not only has been changed many times, but some facts have disproved things from the bible such as the flood only in one area that happened near the exact time of Noah that was supposed to encompass the world, or Jesus' brother. The response I get to the flood is that the old testament is supposed to be didactic fiction, again which I have no argument. The response I get to Jesus' brother is that there were many people named Jesus back then, and if Jesus had a brother he would have been in the bible. To which I respond that he could have been taken out or he had no significance on Jesus' life in the first place. The answer to that that I recieve is, "Hey, look, it's 5 o'clock its time to attend to the confessional boothes. Gotta go!" This is all I have as of now as my argument. Any more arguments would be very helpful. I tend to argue more by "Non numerandi, sed ponderandi" (not the number but the depth), but anything would be greatly appreciated.
I'd just like to leave you all with the funniest thing I've ever seen. After reading the comics, go to the Testimonies, they're the best.
www.truthforyouth.com
I don't know if that's been posted here before, but for those who haven't seen it here it is.
Oh yeah, and according to Christians, the current pope is either the Anti-Christ or Peter the Roman and the world will end in 2012. I love Christians... they're so dead on the inside.
Thanks to anyone who read my entire post. I know it was long, but I appreciate any help to make these people get off my case.
Onto my argument for a NON-EXISTENT GOD. This is not an argument for atheism. Frankly, I don't have one. I just know God does not exist. First off, what I read on the first post of this website I use as a basis. Next I go into Kai Nielson's argument from his debate with Dr. J.P. Moreland that god cannot be referenced. Take the sentence "God made the heavens and the earth" and the sentence "Phil made the pasta and the brownies." Now, if the person I'm talking to asks, "Well, who's Phil?" I can say clearly "The man in the red sweater." But, if they ask, "Well, who's god?" I cannot reference him without confusing the asker even more. If I answered with "God is the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, transcendant being from whom all things are made", they would want to know:
1) Who is god, because I haven't pointed out a physical description of him,
2) Why he made everything,
3) How can he be omnibenevolent
4) How a being transcendant of us can create the earth, and
5) How I came about this knowledge.
Since I have no evidence, and because he is transcendant, I have no proof of the existence of god. There is no rational or logical way god exists. Which bumps me into another problem with the Christians at my school. If I say these things then their answer that I cannot seem to argue against is "Well what about on the spiritual level? You may have disproved him logically, but spiritually you can't say anyting. But don't worry, my son, god still loves you." At this point I want to become violent, but I remain cool. The second part of my argument is the validity of the bible. It not only has been changed many times, but some facts have disproved things from the bible such as the flood only in one area that happened near the exact time of Noah that was supposed to encompass the world, or Jesus' brother. The response I get to the flood is that the old testament is supposed to be didactic fiction, again which I have no argument. The response I get to Jesus' brother is that there were many people named Jesus back then, and if Jesus had a brother he would have been in the bible. To which I respond that he could have been taken out or he had no significance on Jesus' life in the first place. The answer to that that I recieve is, "Hey, look, it's 5 o'clock its time to attend to the confessional boothes. Gotta go!" This is all I have as of now as my argument. Any more arguments would be very helpful. I tend to argue more by "Non numerandi, sed ponderandi" (not the number but the depth), but anything would be greatly appreciated.
I'd just like to leave you all with the funniest thing I've ever seen. After reading the comics, go to the Testimonies, they're the best.
www.truthforyouth.com
I don't know if that's been posted here before, but for those who haven't seen it here it is.
Oh yeah, and according to Christians, the current pope is either the Anti-Christ or Peter the Roman and the world will end in 2012. I love Christians... they're so dead on the inside.
Thanks to anyone who read my entire post. I know it was long, but I appreciate any help to make these people get off my case.