The Great Flood

[Metman07]

Here's an excerpt I've cut and pasted from another forum:

"...the fact that every major culture has a story similar to the story of Noah's Ark in the Bible is too convincing. Everyone from ancient China, to the Muslims, to Christians, have SOME tale about a great flood. In fact, the ancient Chinese story is so alike to the tale in the Bible that it's insane."

After reading that, I thought it would be cool to debate the Great Flood here. So post your discussions.

[Metman07]

Just because there are many supposedly similar stories doesn't mean that the events depicted in them actually happened. There is actually a lot of doubt as to whether many of these stories were actually similar to the Biblical ones/epic of Gilgamesh etc., since many of the stories from other, more distant cultures were pieced together from shreds of evidence after those people had contact with one or more of the Abrahamic faiths or religions/cultures originating from the Middle East.

It wouldn't be surprising that the Hindus, Mesopotamians, Semites etc. all had similar mythologies because there were a lot of interactions between these peoples. In addition, the people of Persia, Northern India and many parts of Central Asia are all of the same origin as evidenced by similarities in their race, cultures, religions and languages. It's not at all surprsing that Islam has a flood story because Islam is based in large part on Judaism and Christianity. It claims to be the "pure version" of Judaism and Christianity, which were supposedly corrupted over time by men.

Also, the Great Flood story has very little acceptance among geologists and there is much evidence to the contrary.

[WITHTEETH]

Im unfamiliar with other versions of this tale. I know of the bible version, Gilgamesh, and how the Tigris and Euphrates River wold flood sporaticly(<---how do you spell that world).

Why do you think that logically they could all have a flood story?

[Philboid Studge]

Last month I took a brief tour of the coastal damage wrought by the Boxing Day tsunami in Sri Lanka. It is probably the worst flood to hit that island since humans settled there (about 125,000 years ago). If contemporary Sri Lankans were a primitive people, using gods to explain natural phenomena, then they would almost certainly incorporate the Great Flood that took place six months ago into their mythology. (As it is, I talked with a number of people who looked for divine, supernatural, or otherwise superstitious rationalizations for the horror.) My point is that is Great Shit happens once in a while; when Great Shit happened 5000 years ago, it must have seemed so profound that linking it to gods was a natural response.

[Metman07]

Also it is highly possible that all the deluge mythologies (the ones that are very similar) are of common origin. The Mesapotamians, Sumerians and the Semites were all from the same region, so most likely there are many versions of the same story.

There are other flood stories, but they are very different except for the fact that they involve a great flood.

Similarity in stories doesn't make them true. There are many stories that are very similar to Red Riding Hood. Does that mean that the events depicted in these stories actually happened?

[HMS Beagle]

Most of the cultures with Great Flood legends surround Asia Minor, which has become the focus of archaeological investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory)
looking not for Noah's Ark, but for a geologic catastrophe that occurred about 6,000 years ago, creating the Black Sea.

[alaspooryorick]

If contemporary Sri Lankans were a primitive people, using gods to explain natural phenomena, then they would almost certainly incorporate the Great Flood that took place six months ago into their mythology. (As it is, I talked with a number of people who looked for divine, supernatural, or otherwise superstitious rationalizations for the horror.)
You're telling me. I talked to this guy at work who saw it as a sign of the apocolypse, that God was taking his wrath out on the cow-worshipping heathens.

Needless to say, I didn't really say much in that conversation.

[Tenspace]

It rains. It scares the primitives. They think that the lightning and thunder are God's wrath, his anger manifested. Not hard for a fertile imagination to create the ultimate rain story. Convergent memetic evolution.

Tenspace

[ghoulslime]

Tonight in the men's locker room at 24 Hour Fitness, one of the toilets had flooded the floor. I wonder is if GOD controls little floods too. Do you think he takes a personal hand in making turd water spill all over the bathroom floor, or do you suppose he only takes part in the great big fucking floods that kill lots of people?

[Philboid Studge]

Tonight in the men's locker room at 24 Hour Fitness, one of the toilets had flooded the floor. I wonder is if GOD controls little floods too. Do you think he takes a personal hand in making turd water spill all over the bathroom floor, or do you suppose he only takes part in the great big fucking floods that kill lots of people?
With apologies to Joyce Kilmer and everyone else who steps into this stinky thread:

I think that I have never heard
A poem as steamy as a turd.

A turd whose fetid breath is prest
Against the carpet's flowing breast;

A turd that looks at God all day,
And lifts its pungent fumes to pray;

A turd that may in Summer wear
A clutch of maggots in its hair;

Upon whose slime a ghoul did step;
A fate all mortals must accept.

Poems are made by fools I've heard,
But only God can make a turd.

[Nicole]

Most of the cultures with Great Flood legends surround Asia Minor, which has become the focus of archaeological investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory)
looking not for Noah's Ark, but for a geologic catastrophe that occurred about 6,000 years ago, creating the Black Sea.
I saw a great National Geographic special on this very phenomenon. Very credible evidence and it answered a lot of the questions as to how so many cultures might have a similar tale. Here's a link http://www.nationalgeographic.com/events/releases/pr000913.html

[Metman07]

If contemporary Sri Lankans were a primitive people, using gods to explain natural phenomena, then they would almost certainly incorporate the Great Flood that took place six months ago into their mythology. (As it is, I talked with a number of people who looked for divine, supernatural, or otherwise superstitious rationalizations for the horror.)
You're telling me. I talked to this guy at work who saw it as a sign of the apocolypse, that God was taking his wrath out on the cow-worshipping heathens.

Needless to say, I didn't really say much in that conversation.
Wow, the complete and utter ignorance of Bible Thumpers never ceases to disgust me.

[Bighead]

You're telling me. I talked to this guy at work who saw it as a sign of the apocolypse, that God was taking his wrath out on the cow-worshipping heathens.

Needless to say, I didn't really say much in that conversation.
That's funny. I work in a bookstore near DC...last night we had a pretty good thunderstorm and I was working. Some religious nut jewish girl comes in from the rain and asks if we have a copy of the Torah. I know that we do, because I got tasked with reshelving the bibly section a few weeks ago so I have a decent idea of what we have there (all of our books have a sticker on the back that tells the employee who is shelving exactly where it goes, and on the back of one of the bibles, I swear it said "Christian, Fiction", I laugh :lol: ).

Anway...I was looking through the shelve trying to find the only copy of the Torah that we have left that's just a torah because she doesn't want any kind of explanations written in the book because she wants to interpret the meaning for herself which I think is a reasonable and intelligent thing to do...I was looking through the shelve and saw many copies of the Koran and a few commentaries/reading guides for the xtian bibly as well...I pointed those out just at random, and she started spouting off about how those two books are just crap. "The Koran is false, I've read it all. The New Testament is a lie, I've read it too...the only book that matters is the Torah. It's God's word. I love God...blah blah blah"

I just smiled and laughed on the inside. So, after finding the torah, we go up to the register, and (remember it's a big storm) there is a really loud lightening strike nearby. Another employee and a few customers and I were talking about how we love thunderstorms, and she agrees "I love thunderstorms too. It reminds me that god is there getting mad at us. GO AHEAD GOD! SHOW THEM YOU'RE ANGER!!!!" As soon as she left everyone there (including the xtian manager) busted out laughing....one of the few amusements I get at that job...nutcases buying books.

[ocmpoma]

To supplement Ten's post, I think the main reason why a flood myth would be so common is that even normal floods are serious natural disasters for civilizations without the technology to cope. Crops destroyed, disesase, etc. Such an event would almost certainly be mythologized in order to be rationalized. I've never heard of a flood story in ancient Egyptian mythology - perhaps because the Nile flooded in a mostly predictable manner, rather than a disastrous one. Mythology is also full of stories about earthquakes, volcanos, etc.

[John East]

I am confident that the large number of flood legends do relate to one another. Around about 10000 BC the last ice age came to an end, the northern glaciers retreated, and sea levels rose. For example, the Bosphorus was breached leading to the creation of the black sea from what had been a small lake, and cities were innundated in North Western India and Sri Lanka. My knowledge does not extend as far as N American or Asian ancient history, but I'm sure similar floods would have happened there as well.
These must have been earth shattering events for those people effected particularly as populations tend to be concentrated on or near coastal plains.

[ghoulslime]

Tonight in the men's locker room at 24 Hour Fitness, one of the toilets had flooded the floor. I wonder is if GOD controls little floods too. Do you think he takes a personal hand in making turd water spill all over the bathroom floor, or do you suppose he only takes part in the great big fucking floods that kill lots of people?
With apologies to Joyce Kilmer and everyone else who steps into this stinky thread:

I think that I have never heard
A poem as steamy as a turd.

A turd whose fetid breath is prest
Against the carpet's flowing breast;

A turd that looks at God all day,
And lifts its pungent fumes to pray;

A turd that may in Summer wear
A clutch of maggots in its hair;

Upon whose slime a ghoul did step;
A fate all mortals must accept.

Poems are made by fools I've heard,
But only God can make a turd.
AAAAHHHH...MEN! :)

[peepnklown]

Bighead
Some people never evolve.

[Galethog]

Here's an excerpt I've cut and pasted from another forum:

"...the fact that every major culture has a story similar to the story of Noah's Ark in the Bible is too convincing. Everyone from ancient China, to the Muslims, to Christians, have SOME tale about a great flood. In fact, the ancient Chinese story is so alike to the tale in the Bible that it's insane."

After reading that, I thought it would be cool to debate the Great Flood here. So post your discussions.
I didn't think that any major cultures were left after the "Great Flood", just Noah and his family.

[WITHTEETH]

Intresting point Galethog...

[KingExamin]

Maybe there was a great flood. But if there were some dates, I'd be able to spectulate on what caused the flood. Ice caps, maybe?

[WITHTEETH]

Most of the cultures with Great Flood legends surround Asia Minor, which has become the focus of archaeological investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory)
looking not for Noah's Ark, but for a geologic catastrophe that occurred about 6,000 years ago, creating the Black Sea.
KingExamin, he already explained it in this article.

[Switch25]

To supplement Ten's post, I think the main reason why a flood myth would be so common is that even normal floods are serious natural disasters for civilizations without the technology to cope. Crops destroyed, disesase, etc. Such an event would almost certainly be mythologized in order to be rationalized. I've never heard of a flood story in ancient Egyptian mythology - perhaps because the Nile flooded in a mostly predictable manner, rather than a disastrous one. Mythology is also full of stories about earthquakes, volcanos, etc.
I've heard of the Nile flooding in a predictable manner as well, thats why egyptians would have to plan to plant their crops at the right time- if they did plant it at the right time they could get the most out of the fertilized growned that the Nile had left after flooding.

You're telling me. I talked to this guy at work who saw it as a sign of the apocolypse, that God was taking his wrath out on the cow-worshipping heathens.

Needless to say, I didn't really say much in that conversation.
That's funny. I work in a bookstore near DC...last night we had a pretty good thunderstorm and I was working. Some religious nut jewish girl comes in from the rain and asks if we have a copy of the Torah. I know that we do, because I got tasked with reshelving the bibly section a few weeks ago so I have a decent idea of what we have there (all of our books have a sticker on the back that tells the employee who is shelving exactly where it goes, and on the back of one of the bibles, I swear it said "Christian, Fiction", I laugh :lol: ).

Anway...I was looking through the shelve trying to find the only copy of the Torah that we have left that's just a torah because she doesn't want any kind of explanations written in the book because she wants to interpret the meaning for herself which I think is a reasonable and intelligent thing to do...I was looking through the shelve and saw many copies of the Koran and a few commentaries/reading guides for the xtian bibly as well...I pointed those out just at random, and she started spouting off about how those two books are just crap. "The Koran is false, I've read it all. The New Testament is a lie, I've read it too...the only book that matters is the Torah. It's God's word. I love God...blah blah blah"

I just smiled and laughed on the inside. So, after finding the torah, we go up to the register, and (remember it's a big storm) there is a really loud lightening strike nearby. Another employee and a few customers and I were talking about how we love thunderstorms, and she agrees "I love thunderstorms too. It reminds me that god is there getting mad at us. GO AHEAD GOD! SHOW THEM YOU'RE ANGER!!!!" As soon as she left everyone there (including the xtian manager) busted out laughing....one of the few amusements I get at that job...nutcases buying books.
lol, don't ya just love them. I've listened to these type of people before as well, as I was told, there are more floods and bad things happening today then there were a long time ago because God is angry at how people are more evil today. Yes there are more floods but not because God is angry at us and is making them happen, its more that humans have been paving of more and more of the land and end up creating huge areas where floods can just come in and take out everythng before these floods get a chance to soak into the ground. Its also because of the our great ability to communciate now days and how spread out humans are then ever before. The news just loves to talk about all the bad things that are happening these days, why, because it boosts their ratings. Humans are more interested in the terrible things in our world then the good things. there are also more people covering more area than ever before and this makes things that were before unnoticeable, because people were not living there, now noticeable. This does not just pertain to floods either, it includes earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, fires, wars, and anything bad for that matter.

[Revmonkeyboy]

Most every culture has a flood myth because almost every culture has floods. Not the earth covering kind but instead the kind that kills real people. I will buy the black sea flood for the middle eastern and even some asian myths. But the american indians had flood myths. It seems obvious that when disaster happens the primatives will come up with superstitious reasons.

I have heard the religious argue that there are ocean fossils in every part of the world. Where I live there are many fossils from a sea that was here 330 mil yrs ago. These animals are saltwater animals. The flood rain would have been salt free. Rain is not salty. Even if it was salty there are extensive coral growths that took a lot longer than 40 days and nights to form. Besides why didn't god put these corals on the ark? The people who first created the myth had probably seen fossils showing that their land had once been submerged as well.

Revmonkeyboy

[calpurnpiso]

The more evolved biological computer that we humans have, as opposed to those of less evolved primates, NEEDS answers, , it'll go bezerk if it doesn't, so, thousands of years ago, if not millions, this organ begun to create GOD and a miriad of metaphysical concepts to answer that which it wasn't able to "compute".

The air that we breathe and where birds fly became the soul and gods, so did the sun, moon, stars, vegetables that die in winter and resurrect in spring ( i,e Jesus, Osiris, Attis et al). So, the fantastic legends that explained it all grew and became cults, sects and the organized religions we see today....and ALL of them MUST accept, like in the schizophrenia and psychosis infected brain, mythological ABSURDITIES as if they were a tangible reality and historical fact.

Religious belief systems are nothing more than a form of mental retardation, where conserving primitive beliefs and stagnating the intellect is essential!. As anyone can see the primitive fantasies of Santa and the Tooth Fairy, a REALITY in the mind of children, have now become Jesus, Allah, ID, et al, in the minds of adults!.

I believe refering to anyone that believes in a supreme intelligent Spirit creator/force as MENTALLY RETARDED, is accurate and precise. The reasoning ability, logic centers and perception of reality in the brains of those folks have stagnated and in most severe cases athropiated ( down syndrome, Alpha Thalassemia,). The difference is that in the those infected with religion only the inner part of the brain are affected, showing no outward physical signs unlike the Alpha-thalassemia patients. They are STILL mentaly retarded.

So, is it accurate to refer to Christians, IDrs, UFO abduction believers, spiritualists, et al RETARDS!......:)

[Tenspace]

Most every culture has a flood myth because almost every culture has floods. Not the earth covering kind but instead the kind that kills real people. I will buy the black sea flood for the middle eastern and even some asian myths. But the american indians had flood myths. It seems obvious that when disaster happens the primatives will come up with superstitious reasons.

I have heard the religious argue that there are ocean fossils in every part of the world. Where I live there are many fossils from a sea that was here 330 mil yrs ago. These animals are saltwater animals. The flood rain would have been salt free. Rain is not salty. Even if it was salty there are extensive coral growths that took a lot longer than 40 days and nights to form. Besides why didn't god put these corals on the ark? The people who first created the myth had probably seen fossils showing that their land had once been submerged as well.

Revmonkeyboy
Good points, Rev. Why are there no anti-gravity myths, or great electrocution myths? Hmm...... :D

Tenspace

[Stop the Robots]

I think that the great flood is convincing of it all being bullshit. How could the other tales exist if Noah's Ark were true, because no one would be around but Noah to come up with other stories.

[Metman07]

I think that the great flood is convincing of it all being bullshit. How could the other tales exist if Noah's Ark were true, because no one would be around but Noah to come up with other stories.
Not that I agree with it, but the Christian position is that all of humanity is descended from Noah and crew and that the story of this epic flood has been preserved in various forms through oral tradition. Of course, Christians, Jews and Muslims contend that their account of this flood is the the most accurate version since it comes from God. They argue that since so many cultures have a flood myth, that it must have happened.

Of course, the Biblical version of the flood is contradicted by geological, archeological and biological evidence. There are of course many other explanations as to why there are many different flood myths. But it is typical of most theists to always accept the explanation that supports their theories, even if it is not the most likely explanation.

[Another brick in the wall]

When one considers that most ancient civilizations were located next to rivers, it's not surprising that flood myths are so common.

[TroggleHumper]

Here's an excerpt I've cut and pasted from another forum:

"...the fact that every major culture has a story similar to the story of Noah's Ark in the Bible is too convincing. Everyone from ancient China, to the Muslims, to Christians, have SOME tale about a great flood. In fact, the ancient Chinese story is so alike to the tale in the Bible that it's insane."

After reading that, I thought it would be cool to debate the Great Flood here. So post your discussions.
What is there to talk about? There have been lots of floods over the years so what?