The debate of atheist vs. theist

[lV C O A]

Here is what i think.
People spend their whole life arguing the excistence of god. But at our point in time there will never be proof that there is god or there isn't so arguing this is a complete waste of time.

Atheist vs theist
As far as being an atheist or theist it all really comes down to weather you like to replace the uknown such as the universes creation with prophecies such as a god or super being or you situate yourself behind science. And that the earth was created to an act of science and life such as the big bang.

To summon it up
It is all how you percieve the uknown.

[lV C O A]

Still no thoughts

[WITHTEETH]

Pretty much right. I still will never stop trying to communicate what i perceive as the truth w/ others because i really think people should know. Also science is on a roll, its getting to the point were christians now take their children to a private school to brainwash their children, to hide the truth. Religions always blame god for mysteries, its an easy answer!
Still everyone should respect eachother and not impose their will on others and not mix church with state.

Athiest vs Theist / Reason vs Faith / Subjective Vs Absolute
Do those Vs' sound right?

[Nicole]

I agree. I think it's how you choose to look for answers.

To debate is to be human. If we didn't discuss things to death we wouldn't be us.

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him
--Galileo Galilei

[ghoulslime]

I agree. I think it's how you choose to look for answers.

To debate is to be human. If we didn't discuss things to death we wouldn't be us.

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him
--Galileo Galilei
Galileo never met the guy who was taking tickets at the movie theater today.

[Nicole]

I agree. I think it's how you choose to look for answers.

To debate is to be human. If we didn't discuss things to death we wouldn't be us.

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him
--Galileo Galilei
Galileo never met the guy who was taking tickets at the movie theater today.
Okay, but I bet Galileo would have 'learned' that the ticket sellers' methods were not appropriate..or that a viewer should go to another theater..or that movie theaters should screen their employees more carefully..or that smoking crack before coming to work is not a good idea. On the other hand, why the hell would Galileo be at a movie theater?

What did you see whilst at this movie theater?

[lV C O A]

Cool i am in sort of the same line of thinking as the atheist in this specific forum.

[Revmonkeyboy]

As an atheist, It is not when the theist wonder about the unknown that is wrong. I will fight for peoples rights to see life any way they wish. I get angry when they attack what is known. I get angry when they brainwash children. I get angry when they get rich on the poor and uneducated. I get angry when they burn books. I get angry when they attack equality for all americans(yes even the ones you don't like).

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of god. Science has never had that objective. It's objective is to find truth. Truth itself has proven that all the holybooks are not historicaly acurate. Science has not made any major statements about god and is not equiped to do so. Darwin was a christian. He was not an atheist out to disprove the bible. He was looking for truth and had the wisdom to accept it regardless of dogma or belief. Science does not rely on belief, it is true regardless of belief. Most of the fundamentalist are attempting to change facts we have known for over 100 yrs. The age of the earth is not up for debate. It has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Wishfull thinking will not change this fact. Even if you do not believe it, it is still so.

[freethought]

How quick are you to claim that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of this entity you call "god".

What are its attributes?

What is its shape? What actions do you claim it has performed? Where is it located? etc.
Given someone who has no idea what is meant by this word, how do you expect me to even approach such a question?
I know for a fact that a "god" which is shaped like a triangular square does not exist. Is the "god" you refer to shaped like that?
It is obvious that it is impossible to refute/support the existence of an entity so loosely defined, however, once you start assigning attributes to it, it becomes more likely that it will be falsifiable by science and/or logic.

The standard response to the question "YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN MY GOD OMG WTF?!?" should be: "What's "god", be specific please".

The location of the thin line between atheism and agnosticism depends entirely on the characteristics of the "god" in question.

-- freethought

[ocmpoma]

"The location of the thin line between atheism and agnosticism depends entirely on the characteristics of the "god" in question."

A very well put summary of the 'strong' atheist's position. Well said.

[Psylence]

Also science is on a roll, its getting to the point were christians now take their children to a private school to brainwash their children, to hide the truth. Religions always blame god for mysteries, its an easy answer!
Still everyone should respect eachother and not impose their will on others and not mix church with state.

Athiest vs Theist / Reason vs Faith / Subjective Vs Absolute
Do those Vs' sound right?
Has anyone heard about what is going on with Texas schools? Apparently some individual wrote a book on his theory that is being dubbed "Intelligent Design" and it is getting picked up heavily by Christians. Enough to the point that the "theory" of evolution is being replaced by the theory of intelligent design as the default in Texas Science text books.

Humorous how a teacher attempts teaching evolution and he ends up going through a ridiculously over-mentioned trial, but not one teacher, but an entire state's worth of teachers can teach this excuse of a theory without a single voice of opposition.

For those of you that are uninformed, Intelligent Design is a Christian "cop out" for Evolution. Science destroys another pillar of Christianity, so they need to find a "God works in myserious ways" excuse for it. Intelligent Design is the theory that evolution was guided with some form of "intelligence." Yet another side-step to Seperation of Church and State.

[ghoulslime]

I agree. I think it's how you choose to look for answers.

To debate is to be human. If we didn't discuss things to death we wouldn't be us.

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him
--Galileo Galilei
Galileo never met the guy who was taking tickets at the movie theater today.
Okay, but I bet Galileo would have 'learned' that the ticket sellers' methods were not appropriate..or that a viewer should go to another theater..or that movie theaters should screen their employees more carefully..or that smoking crack before coming to work is not a good idea. On the other hand, why the hell would Galileo be at a movie theater?

What did you see whilst at this movie theater?
I saw War of the Worlds and then theater hopped into Batman. They were both good movies - B+/A-

On the other hand, why the hell would Galileo be at a movie theater?!! Duh! I'm not going without a date! Wassa matta witha you?!

[ocmpoma]

Psylence - it's worse than you think.
Check out
http://brightline.typepad.com/law_evolution_science_and/
http://evolutionblog.blogspot.com/

and, of course, both
http://www.pandasthumb.org/
http://talkorigins.org/

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Yes, one problem with debating God vs. No God is how you define God. But if we go by the standard definition of an all powerful, all knowing, all creating, being that exists everywhere in both space an time, then we run into paradoxes in logic that cannot be resolved. Wherever there are paradoxes, something is wrong with your premise, since a true paradox cannot exist logically. In this case, the premise is that there is an all powerful, all knowing, all creating, being that exists everywhere in both space an time.

This is the short version of why I can logically conclude there is no God.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

St. Teabag, you aren't following me around here tonight are you?

Just wondering why you are bothering to throw in your two cents in debates you don't seem to care about.

I actually agree with you that if there was a God such as has been described by most religions, I would have little respect for him AND I know it is basically almost pointless to try to convince the other side by the use of reason. Finally, I am fully aware that it is impossible to prove a negative.

Nevertheless, there are some who want to say that atheists are just as presumptuous as theists in addressing things that no one can know. I think these are the people who might respond to reasoned argument and those are the people I'm addressing in my post above.

[bobfritzelpuff]

Just because the battle can not be won does not mean the battle should not be fought.

Personally, I see the debate as a necissary one- religion is the bane of our society: it makes people think they are in need of salvation, it makes them ignore suffering as acts of devine punishment, it makes them fail to act in the idea that they are not in controll of their own life, it makes them brainwash children to think this way and makes them force children to waste a seventh of their precious lives. Religion subdues the masses, makes them stop asking questions. Religion makes people try and force their (twisted) moral doctrines on others. Religion makes people take a fairy tale seriously enough that they will fight wars and throw the lives of others away because those others read differant fairy tales.

It is not that there is no proof of god existing or not existing, it is that there is no proof of god existing: therefore, we assume he does not exist, just as we assume leprechauns and unicorns don't exist. If we took 'there is no proof he doesn't exist' as an answer, we would be admiting to the belief of all things ever dreamt of.

While I know that the debates are usually useless, they must be carried out- religion has done horrible things to this world and is on the brink of doing so again (in the middle east) and I will fight my position vehemently. Albiet with bad spelling.

[miata]

Here is what i think.
People spend their whole life arguing the excistence of god. But at our point in time there will never be proof that there is god or there isn't so arguing this is a complete waste of time.

Atheist vs theist
As far as being an atheist or theist it all really comes down to weather you like to replace the uknown such as the universes creation with prophecies such as a god or super being or you situate yourself behind science. And that the earth was created to an act of science and life such as the big bang.

To summon it up
It is all how you percieve the uknown.
I perceive that there is no god or gods, and see no reason to prove either point. No one knows for sure if what we perceive is true so it is foolish and childrish for me to argue either way. If god exixt he has failed if he does not exist we are better off because he sucks as a father.
miata