Daft Question!

[PanAtheist]

"Does God Exist?"

That is a daft question!

The word "God" is only ever used in an absurd way.
(And it is blatant that this is so!)

To ask whether "God exists?", the questioner is participating in the silliness of using a word that is only ever used in an absurd way, and which clearly has never referred to anything real (except where it has been absurdly used, essentially as a name, to indicate, say: a certain person, a certain volcano, or that pink elephant, etc. etc. - in which case the answer would be "yes!" :D)

[Switch25]

"Does God Exist?"

That is a daft question!

The word "God" is only ever used in an absurd way.
(And it is blatant that this is so!)

To ask whether "God exists?", the questioner is participating in the silliness of using a word that is only ever used in an absurd way, and which clearly has never referred to anything real (except where it has been absurdly used, essentially as a name, to indicate, say: a certain person, a certain volcano, or that pink elephant, etc. etc. - in which case the answer would be "yes!" :D)
Of course, but what else do we use to ask this question? Besides it does refer to something real in some people's minds.

[UnknownUser]

"Does God Exist?"

That is a daft question!

The word "God" is only ever used in an absurd way.
(And it is blatant that this is so!)

To ask whether "God exists?", the questioner is participating in the silliness of using a word that is only ever used in an absurd way, and which clearly has never referred to anything real (except where it has been absurdly used, essentially as a name, to indicate, say: a certain person, a certain volcano, or that pink elephant, etc. etc. - in which case the answer would be "yes!" :D)
Heh long way to go to say no...

But there is only a god in the perceptual mind of the public, living on ignorance and fear...

[bluster]

Greetings Unknown User,

But there is only a god in the perceptual mind of the public, living on ignorance and fear...
Hm-m-m, as a member of the public, the one with somewhat clear concept of God in "perceptual" mind I can hardly describe myself as either ignorant or fearful. What am I supposed to do if I do not fit in with your biased and superficial proposition?

[snap crafter]

Oh my, you don't see yourself in a negative light? Woah, you must have some sort of super ego or something. Thanks for proving the ignorance part ;)

[TheSnake]

as a member of the public, the one with somewhat clear concept of God
From what I've seen, people usually don't have a clear concept of god Can you explain what you think god is?

[calpurnpiso]

God is simply a product of our brains used to explain that which this biological computer of ours can not answer or compute.....if left unchecked it can develop into a delusion producing a mental illness filled with obessive compulsived disorders...i,e Christ-psychosis...:)

[Choobus]

This thread is just as daft is it not? It's a bit like saying "hey, you know your fat sister? Well, she's a bit fat innit."

On the other hand, the word God is often used in a sensible manner. For example, if you are on a home decorating show, when they lead you into the newly renovated room/house you are obliged to say "oh my god.....", and you can cry if you like. Similarly, if you walk in on your significant other taking a facial you might well exclaim "jesus!" (especially if you happen to be a heterosexual married woman). The one thing the theists have given us is a culturally significant subset of ostensibly non-offensive expressions regarding the totality of the universe on the one hand and any banal, mundane human experiance on the other. (E.g., sorry we've run out of donuts: "JESUS! Oh god...."

[bluster]

Greetings snap crafter,

Nope, no super ego here. Just some healthy self-respect. How does it make me ignorant?

Oh my, you don't see yourself in a negative light? Woah, you must have some sort of super ego or something. Thanks for proving the ignorance part ;)

[bluster]

Greetings TheSnake,

That is a very tough question.

My concept of God has to do with the personality of the First Cause and Center of the Universe reality. In short, take the discernible universe (and there is probably a lot more to it that we presently have no clue about) and try to imagine a being that is capable of conceiving, evolving, and influencing such an immense creation...

Aside from the universal scope of the Deity there is also a personal aspect to it. I do not believe that we are an evolutionary accident. I believe that there is a purpose in our appearence on the stage of existence. I believe that our minds derived and evolved from the world of matter, contain precious qualities that are of great importance and interest to the Deity. I believe that God is personally cognizant and concerned of each and every one of us.

My concept of God is transcending, absolute, eternal, infinite, and, yet, contactable by each and every one of us.

as a member of the public, the one with somewhat clear concept of God
From what I've seen, people usually don't have a clear concept of god Can you explain what you think god is?

[bluster]

Hi calpurnpiso,

Or ther reverse might be true... our brains are the products of some processes set about by ancestral being that is the casue of the reality. Consequently the standard issue wet-ware is not yet adequate to discern and to comprehend something that is vastly beyond its conceptual capacity.

God is simply a product of our brains used to explain that which this biological computer of ours can not answer or compute.....if left unchecked it can develop into a delusion producing a mental illness filled with obessive compulsived disorders...i,e Christ-psychosis...:)

[Choobus]

Greetings TheSnake,

That is a very tough question.

My concept of God has to do with the personality of the First Cause and Center of the Universe reality. In short, take the discernible universe (and there is probably a lot more to it that we presently have no clue about) and try to imagine a being that is capable of conceiving, evolving, and influencing such an immense creation...

Aside from the universal scope of the Deity there is also a personal aspect to it. I do not believe that we are an evolutionary accident. I believe that there is a purpose in our appearence on the stage of existence. I believe that our minds derived and evolved from the world of matter, contain precious qualities that are of great importance and interest to the Deity. I believe that God is personally cognizant and concerned of each and every one of us.

My concept of God is transcending, absolute, eternal, infinite, and, yet, contactable by each and every one of us.

as a member of the public, the one with somewhat clear concept of God
From what I've seen, people usually don't have a clear concept of god Can you explain what you think god is?

If god is prersonally aware of each of us and everything we go through, how can such pain (as I feel constantly due to some mental illness problems I have (mostly depression and anxiety, but quite severe) be needed? I would really like to know

[bluster]

If god is prersonally aware of each of us and everything we go through, how can such pain (as I feel constantly due to some mental illness problems I have (mostly depression and anxiety, but quite severe) be needed? I would really like to know
Well, God is not a painkiller, nor is he a therapist. Our lives are beset by inevitablities and are ripe in suffering. Most of it is caused by our own immaturity and factors inherent in our environment.

Are you getting help for your condition?

I´ve been through a similar experience with a combination of PTSD/Anxiety a while ago, it can be hell.

[Nicole]

I think the question 'does god exist?' is valid because a large number of people think 'he' does. We 'know' that he doesn't and they 'know' that he does....that in itself creates the debate. Perception and perspectives are always up for debate because they're subjective.

You can answer with a 'no', 'yes' or 'N/A' but there's still going to be the question...

[Nicole]

If god is prersonally aware of each of us and everything we go through, how can such pain (as I feel constantly due to some mental illness problems I have (mostly depression and anxiety, but quite severe) be needed? I would really like to know
Hi Choobus,

I hope that you are getting medical attention as well as emotional support. Even though I don't believe 'god' is watching over us I think that we have our own personal strength to draw on and I hope that you can do that.

I think that this is looking at god from a very fundimentalist view of him. I'm an atheist but I think any intelligent theist would say that 'god' is not some white haired guy in the clouds watching down on us. If you're reading the bible literally from an atheist or theist point of view then I think any argument is worthless because the premise is ridiculous.

[bluster]

Hi Nicole,

I think that it is important to answer the question: What is God? before being able to discuss the issue of his existence or non-existence.

I think the question 'does god exist?' is valid because a large number of people think 'he' does. We 'know' that he doesn't and they 'know' that he does....that in itself creates the debate. Perception and perspectives are always up for debate because they're subjective.

You can answer with a 'no', 'yes' or 'N/A' but there's still going to be the question...

[Tenspace]

I think that it is important to answer the question: What is God? before being able to discuss the issue of his existence or non-existence.
God is an invention by early man to provide explanations by a tribe's elders for all that was unknowable. God evolved to become a controlling entity used to keep populations supportive of their leaders.

God exists only as a thought, a mem, a concept. There is no real entity called God. Never was.

Tenspace

[TheSnake]

My concept of God has to do with the personality of the First Cause and Center of the Universe reality. In short, take the discernible universe (and there is probably a lot more to it that we presently have no clue about) and try to imagine a being that is capable of conceiving, evolving, and influencing such an immense creation...
That's sensible enough. I can imagine quite a few entities that would fit that description. (I guess that's what watching too much Star Trek will do to you. :) )

Aside from the universal scope of the Deity there is also a personal aspect to it. I do not believe that we are an evolutionary accident. I believe that there is a purpose in our appearence on the stage of existence. I believe that our minds derived and evolved from the world of matter, contain precious qualities that are of great importance and interest to the Deity. I believe that God is personally cognizant and concerned of each and every one of us.
This is fairly solid, the next bit is a bit trickier:

My concept of God is transcending, absolute, eternal, infinite, and, yet, contactable by each and every one of us.
The words you are using require some attribute to attach to. Do you mean eternal and infinite in the sense of our universe or in some extrauniversal sense? Does it makes a difference when viewing with the requirements of the first quote of this post?
In what sense is your God absolute?
What does he transcend? Transcending reality as we know it is essentially a requirement for the two first quote segments.
Then you say that he's contactable by all of us. The middle quote segment would say that he's aware of our thoughs at any time, so I guess that you could say he's contactable by us, although I think that that's a bit redundant.

To summarize the above: God created the universe and us for some unknown reason. He's watching over us and knows everything about us and is, for some unknown reason, concerned with what we do.
Is that consistent with your religions dogmas? Does that imply somehow that you need to, say, go to church on sundays?
Does it make any difference wether you believe in this God or not?

[Philboid Studge]

I believe that God is personally cognizant and concerned of each and every one of us.
Hey, bluster!

What is our purpose from God's POV, and what is his purpose from ours? (Is it possible, first of all, to even know his motives? If so, is this knowledge intuitive or based on personal experiences or what?)

[bluster]

Hi Tenspace,

God is an invention by early man to provide explanations by a tribe's elders for all that was unknowable. God evolved to become a controlling entity used to keep populations supportive of their leaders.
You are correct as far as the evolutionary origins of different concepts of God are concerned. Evolutionary religions have been evolving from the ghost fear and taboo regulations that have been employed to subdue and to control human beings from the time of our appearence on the evolutionary stage.

Evolutionary ideas about God are ever evolving, they are conceptual ladder steps that allow us to get to a point of recognizing reality and existence that transcend our limited conceptual capacity.

God exists only as a thought, a mem, a concept. There is no real entity called God. Never was.
That is a statement of faith :) Of course, there never was an entity named "God". There always have been and there always will be concepts of our understanding of the existence and reality far beyond our conceptual capacity that will always evolve along with us that we refer to us "God".

[bluster]

Greetings TheSnake,

That's sensible enough. I can imagine quite a few entities that would fit that description. (I guess that's what watching too much Star Trek will do to you. :) )
It is nice to have fertile imagination. Actually, I am not that big on Star Trek or on Sci-Fi in general. Reality offers me too much wonderful and mind-blowing concepts to ponder. No stretch of purely human imagination can match that.

The words you are using require some attribute to attach to. Do you mean eternal and infinite in the sense of our universe or in some extrauniversal sense? Does it makes a difference when viewing with the requirements of the first quote of this post?
Some of my cosmological beliefs are as following: we are finites, we are projected in space and actualized in time. A finite being or reality always has a beginning. It may not have an end, but there is always a "start". The universe that we are partially conscious about is finite which means that it has had a beginning and it has some boundaries.

The Deity is the Cause, the universe is an effect. Infinity and eternity of the Deity transcends the universe which is just a fractional revelation of the totality of Deity activity.


In what sense is your God absolute?
In the absolute sense :) The absolutness of reality of Deity can be understood as timeless, spaceless, eternal, and infinite.

What does he transcend? Transcending reality as we know it is essentially a requirement for the two first quote segments.
Transcending time means existence independent of time. We, as finite beings have to reckon with time in achieving our goals, but Deity, is time-independent. There is no "time lag" in the Deity reality. Of course, when a personalization of Deity has to act in the time/space context, the time element has to be respected or unintended "miracles" as perceived by the time creatures might take place.

Transcending space means existence independent of space.

Actually, there is a level of reality that intervenes between finite and absolute. Transcendence of time and space as well as independence of it is actually the characteristics of this level. This level is not infinite nor is it finite. Let´s call it absonite.

Absolute level is where time and space simply don´t exist.

Then you say that he's contactable by all of us. The middle quote segment would say that he's aware of our thoughs at any time, so I guess that you could say he's contactable by us, although I think that that's a bit redundant.
I have to be redundant... again and again :)

To summarize the above: God created the universe and us for some unknown reason. He's watching over us and knows everything about us and is, for some unknown reason, concerned with what we do.
Not quite. Deity has caused the universe for a reason that is partially understandable by us. God (as the personality of the Deity) is very much concerned with us for another partially comprehensible reason. Although, I suspect that he is less concerned with what we do then with what we are and what we are becoming.


Is that consistent with your religions dogmas? Does that imply somehow that you need to, say, go to church on sundays?

Does it make any difference wether you believe in this God or not?
Not quite, but that is as close as we can get to my "religious dogmas" at the moment. BTW, I don´t go to church or any other temple not on Sundays not on any other day of the week.

As far as your last question is concerned, I can say that my believing in "this" God makes very much difference to me.

[bluster]

Hey, bluster!

What is our purpose from God's POV, and what is his purpose from ours? (Is it possible, first of all, to even know his motives? If so, is this knowledge intuitive or based on personal experiences or what?)
Hey PS,

I believe that we are of tremendous value from God´s POV. Each and every one of us represents an opportunity of the Deity reality to find expression in the time/space universe along with the capacity of taking us far beyond our present state for reasons unfathomable at the moment.

As far as God´s purpose is from our POV is that possibility of the continuation of existence once our material bodies eventually and inevitably breakdown and disintegrate.

I do not think that we can know all the motives of the Deity for it is simply beyond our wits. When you were say a four-year old kid you probably had pretty hard time understanding the motives of your parents.

Now, the situation with God is roughly the same the difference being is that in the first case we are talking about two fairly similar beings separated only by a few decades of time and in the case of a human being and God we are talking about two vastly different beings separated by eternity ;)

The knowledge that I have is the product of the process of the interaction with this Deity reality along with regular thinking, reading, and discussing the subject matter.

[Rhinoqulous]

I believe that we are of tremendous value from God´s POV. Each and every one of us represents an opportunity of the Deity reality to find expression in the time/space universe along with the capacity of taking us far beyond our present state for reasons unfathomable at the moment.

As far as God´s purpose is from our POV is that possibility of the continuation of existence once our material bodies eventually and inevitably breakdown and disintegrate.

I do not think that we can know all the motives of the Deity for it is simply beyond our wits. When you were say a four-year old kid you probably had pretty hard time understanding the motives of your parents.

Now, the situation with God is roughly the same the difference being is that in the first case we are talking about two fairly similar beings separated only by a few decades of time and in the case of a human being and God we are talking about two vastly different beings separated by eternity ;)

The knowledge that I have is the product of the process of the interaction with this Deity reality along with regular thinking, reading, and discussing the subject matter.
Hi there, bluster

I'm not sure that if this Deity you posit exists, we would be able to gain anything from it. If the Deity completely transcends our reality (time, space, etc.) its nature would be beyond our comprehension. I think an analogy of an ant trying to comprehend the motives of a human fits better than a child understanding adults. There just doesn't seem to be any relative comparisons between us (humanity) and a Deity of this nature for communication to be possible. Just my two cents.

Rhinoq

[Philboid Studge]

I'm with Rhinoq on this. Even you, bluster, seem to allude to the deity's incomprehnsible nature -- which is by definiton "far beyond our conceptual capacity."
Also, you place much of your faith in what you believe might happen: both from God's POV, with his opportunity to take us "beyond our present state for reasons unfathomable at the moment." (Again with the unfathomable.'); and in terms of some form of afterlife for us. As someone who has not had an 'interaction with this Deity,' your views strike me as the triumph of hope over reason.

[bluster]

Greetings Rhinoqulous,

I'm not sure that if this Deity you posit exists, we would be able to gain anything from it. If the Deity completely transcends our reality (time, space, etc.) its nature would be beyond our comprehension. I think an analogy of an ant trying to comprehend the motives of a human fits better than a child understanding adults. There just doesn't seem to be any relative comparisons between us (humanity) and a Deity of this nature for communication to be possible. Just my two cents.Rhinoq
I belive that we´ve already gained the fact of our existence by the virtue of the existence and will of this Deity, but that is just me :) I also happen to believe that we have virtually unlimited benefits to derive from the intelligent co-operation with this Deity.

I am not really that comfortable using the ant comparison. An ant doesn´t have personality nor does it have will. I´d say that on other then material level (mind and spirit) there is more difference between ant and man then between man and Deity.

[bluster]

Et tu, Philboid Studge :( ?

I'm with Rhinoq on this. Even you, bluster, seem to allude to the deity's incomprehnsible nature -- which is by definiton "far beyond our conceptual capacity."
Also, you place much of your faith in what you believe might happen: both from God's POV, with his opportunity to take us "beyond our present state for reasons unfathomable at the moment." (Again with the unfathomable.'); and in terms of some form of afterlife for us. As someone who has not had an 'interaction with this Deity,' your views strike me as the triumph of hope over reason.
If reason runs you into a dead end, chances are it is fallible. Actually, I believe that all human reasoning is fallible.

Yet, I am not trying to pin even the fallible human reason against hope, I merely try to imply that there is a lot more to reality that we are capable of understanding in our present state.

Still, if you can´t swim, does it mean that you should never try?

Even the initial attempts in contacting Deity reality and opening up one´s mind would yield a lot more then years and years of pure human reasoning. You wil ever grow in your capacity to understand Deity, but you will never achive the capacity to understand all of it.

I might be suffering from a powerful personal delusion or I might be right. In any case, I do not have anything to lose. My faith has already granted me more benefits then any other influence in my life. If I am delusional and there is nothing after I expire, I won´t even know if I were wrong... but if I am right... fasten the seatbelt!!!!! :lol:

[Philboid Studge]

Even the initial attempts in contacting Deity reality and opening up one´s mind ...
I do this with entheogens (with mixed results).

I think I'm with you on the fallibility of reason, but there's a 'reason' our laws use phrases like "reasonable" doubt or "within reason" or "reasonable people could agree."

That said, you seem fairly reaonable to me. :)

If I am delusional and there is nothing after I expire, I won´t even know if I were wrong... but if I am right... fasten the seatbelt!!!!!
Rock on, brother! (Or sister, as the case may be.)

[bluster]

I do this with entheogens (with mixed results).
Oh-no, you are going to hell with a short layover at a slammer :)

Actually, been there... done that. Don´t do that no more, for the mere reason that I believe that entheogens work primarily on subconscious. Access to superconscious region of the mind (where, IMHO, possibility and actuality of contact with Deity exists) requires unaltered consciousness and clear thinking.

I think I'm with you on the fallibility of reason, but there's a 'reason' our laws use phrases like "reasonable" doubt or "within reason" or "reasonable people could agree."

That said, you seem fairly reaonable to me. :) Rock on, brother! (Or sister, as the case may be.)
Actually, I don´t see faith and reason as antipodal. In my experience faith does not contravene reason and yes, ennobles, expands, and auguments it.

P.S. I am a bro :cool: