What's after death?

[SimMaster]

Where do you think we go, or what do you think happens after we die? Do we simply become born into another body? Do we black out from all existance? What are your beliefs?

[GodlessHeathen]

Nothing. Although, I won't know for sure until I get there.

[Philboid Studge]

Hi SimMaster and welcome. I think that fear of death is the number one reason why Iron Age mythologies persist to this day. I vote 'black out from all existence' -- a Big Sleep.

[Revmonkeyboy]

Dead is dead. If you ever want proof just poke a dead person. Spend a few minutes to check it out. Notice that the body lets loose all the nasty stuff inside. Just like any other animal.
There is no puff of smoke, no spirit floating to heaven. Just the physical signs of death. We die just like every other animal that will ever exist. Ask anybody that has taken part in a medical disection. There is nothing there but flesh and bone.

revmonkeyboy

[Poons Goddy God]

I'm going back to where I lived in 1959. (I was born in 1961)

[Ickybod]

There's a theory that the universe will stop expanding and then eventually collapse in on itself then explode all over again, and repeat. If this is true and the big bang happen the same way every time, (meaning the chain effect which created the earth and all its life will be the same) then there's a chance that as soon as you die you'll be reborn to live the exact same life over and over again for eternity. Hope you're living happily:D

[TheSnake]

SimMaster: I'm curious. What sort of an answer did you expect from an atheist forum?

[SimMaster]

SimMaster: I'm curious. What sort of an answer did you expect from an atheist forum?
I know that some atheists have different views on death. I myself, haven't decided.

[TheSnake]

I'd wager that most atheists here disbelieve all supernatural things, including souls, so there isn't much room for an afterlife.

[Philboid Studge]

"I can't change the laws of physics!" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1493093.stm)

[TheSnake]

Doohan's wartime experiences were every bit as hair-raising as his fictional fights with the Klingons.

As a captain in the Royal Canadian Artillery Regiment, he lost a finger on the first morning of the D-Day landings in Normandy.

Besides this, his aerobatic exploits, which included nearly crashing his aircraft in Holland while taking "a look" at a German U-boat, earned him the title of "the craziest pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force".
An artillery captain and a pilot in the air force in the same war, that's quite an achievement.
Or maybe artillery and air force are the same thing in Canada?

[ChiefOfAss]

There's a theory that the universe will stop expanding and then eventually collapse in on itself then explode all over again, and repeat. If this is true and the big bang happen the same way every time, (meaning the chain effect which created the earth and all its life will be the same) then there's a chance that as soon as you die you'll be reborn to live the exact same life over and over again for eternity.
I know you weren't serious, but for the record, entropy prevents the sort of cosmic Sisyphus effect you assert.

[Cap'n Awesome]

We don't go anywhere. Except into the ground to rot. I know the thought bothers some people, but I don't see why, you were dead for eternity before you were born, and it didn't bother you then. Would I prefer a paradise of everylasting orgasms. Sure. Is it going to happen? No.

[WITHTEETH]

Remember what it was like before you were born? thats what death is like.

[Another brick in the wall]

When you're dead, that's it. Game over man, game over.

[alaspooryorick]

I think the better question is, what are you going to do before death?

[Tenspace]

This death thing is so over-rated. Me, personally, I'm gonna travel the stars. :)
On the other hand, could be "lights out".
Either way, it's inevitable, unchangeable, and therefore not a concern. My hair is grey for other reasons.

Tenspace

[ghoulslime]

This death thing is so over-rated. Me, personally, I'm gonna travel the stars. :)
On the other hand, could be "lights out".
Either way, it's inevitable, unchangeable, and therefore not a concern. My hair is grey for other reasons.

Tenspace
Me too - stars or lights out, and not a goddamn thing I can do to change it. Scary? Yeah.:(

~ Ghoulslime
Jack of all offing, master of baiting.

[bluster]

This death thing is so over-rated. Me, personally, I'm gonna travel the stars. :)
On the other hand, could be "lights out".
Either way, it's inevitable, unchangeable, and therefore not a concern. My hair is grey for other reasons.

Tenspace
Could it be because of the other inevitability - taxes?! :o

[bluster]

Me too - stars or lights out, and not a goddamn thing I can do to change it. Scary? Yeah.:(

~ Ghoulslime
Jack of all offing, master of baiting.
I second you. Actually, there is nothing scary about it.

[Tenspace]

It's not Death that scares me, it's the dying part. :)

[atheos]

This is one of the issues that helped me decide to pursue philosophy as a major.

I tend to be like the existentialists. In the face of inevitable death, does anyone else ever feel that life itself, and all is joys, pains, complications, etc. is just absurd? That the importance we attribute to ourSELVES (I deny the existence of 'self') is likewise absurd. That life, in short, is meaningless regardless of what value we assign to it during our short existences?

I think about things like that a lot, and part of me becomes depressed ... and then on the flip-side, it allows me to 'let go of myself', so to speak, and accept what is obvious.

[bluster]

It's not Death that scares me, it's the dying part. :)
Yeah, me too... The process of dying can brutal...

[bluster]

This is one of the issues that helped me decide to pursue philosophy as a major.

I tend to be like the existentialists. In the face of inevitable death, does anyone else ever feel that life itself, and all is joys, pains, complications, etc. is just absurd? That the importance we attribute to ourSELVES (I deny the existence of 'self') is likewise absurd. That life, in short, is meaningless regardless of what value we assign to it during our short existences?

I think about things like that a lot, and part of me becomes depressed ... and then on the flip-side, it allows me to 'let go of myself', so to speak, and accept what is obvious.
... and what is obvious? and to whom?

[atheos]

This is one of the issues that helped me decide to pursue philosophy as a major.

I tend to be like the existentialists. In the face of inevitable death, does anyone else ever feel that life itself, and all is joys, pains, complications, etc. is just absurd? That the importance we attribute to ourSELVES (I deny the existence of 'self') is likewise absurd. That life, in short, is meaningless regardless of what value we assign to it during our short existences?

I think about things like that a lot, and part of me becomes depressed ... and then on the flip-side, it allows me to 'let go of myself', so to speak, and accept what is obvious.
... and what is obvious? and to whom?
Sorry, I was at work when I wrote this.. and had to keep flipping away when someone important walked by.

By obvious I mean the fact that we are temporary. That are lives are short in comparison to the 'grand scheme' of things. That we are rather insignificant in this scheme, despite the importance we give ourselves and our kind.

[bluster]

Greetings atheos,

You are definetly going to hell :) I mean, philosophising on your bosses time ....

One way to look at the human existence is as a cosmic accident with no meaning attached whatsoever except what we are capable of cooking up ourselves and for ourselves in order to escape the unavoidable doom of non-existence after a brief so-journ in reality full of pain and misery...

Of course, there are religions and spiritual teachings that try to articificially extend the kind of existence we lead in this life with the correction as to the consequences of our actual behavior to the hypothetical places to which we go after death.

Fortunatly, there is a third way. To start on your journey of understanding the universe and your place in it you have to go no further then your own mind.

It is important to understand or at least to admit the possibility that you have much more value in the universe schema of things then you could possibly imagine.

Whole galaxies full of blazing suns, bursting with energy, spanning hundreds if not thousands of light years do not have what poor pessimistic you are so unwittlingly in possession of.

You have personality and you have will. You can use your will to apply the mind to understand and realization of the universe reality. Your personality armed with the insight that your mind can obtain with some help from powerful, but benign sources can carry on its universe existence long after your material body is no more.

So, make your choice: doom and gloom scenario backed up by self-pity and existencial nightmare, fantastic scenarios of myths and legends, or a fascinating journey on the relaity highway...


This is one of the issues that helped me decide to pursue philosophy as a major.

I tend to be like the existentialists. In the face of inevitable death, does anyone else ever feel that life itself, and all is joys, pains, complications, etc. is just absurd? That the importance we attribute to ourSELVES (I deny the existence of 'self') is likewise absurd. That life, in short, is meaningless regardless of what value we assign to it during our short existences?

I think about things like that a lot, and part of me becomes depressed ... and then on the flip-side, it allows me to 'let go of myself', so to speak, and accept what is obvious.
... and what is obvious? and to whom?
Sorry, I was at work when I wrote this.. and had to keep flipping away when someone important walked by.

By obvious I mean the fact that we are temporary. That are lives are short in comparison to the 'grand scheme' of things. That we are rather insignificant in this scheme, despite the importance we give ourselves and our kind.

[Philboid Studge]

Hi bluster!

Please to explain the difference between "what we are capable of cooking up ourselves' and not going 'further than your own mind' ...

[bluster]

Hi PS,

What I mean is that the nature and the functional peculiarities of the human mind are more then partially responsible for the emergence and development of various superstitious beliefs as well as their incorporation in many a religious doctrine and spiritual teaching.

Ghosts, nature gods, spirits, etc are, IMHO, products of human mind and imagination. They are evolutionary and inevitable.

Human mind alone is well-nigh impotent of penetrating the mystery of reality and transcending it natural boundries.

Alas, there is a presence in each normal human mind of reality that has superb capacity of enhancing its functional capacity and reality comprehension.

So, to make my point plain: the mind alone is not capable of penetrating the mystery of reality except in fractional and disorganized manner that doesn´t let it beyond scratching the surface, but within each individual mind there is a tremendous presence that can be activated and used as guide and assistance in tackling the reality as the whole.

I hope I am making sense...

Hi bluster!

Please to explain the difference between "what we are capable of cooking up ourselves' and not going 'further than your own mind' ...

[James]

Was there a 'pre-life' before we were born? No. There is no 'after-life' either. We didn't use to exist before life, we won't exist after it. Well, a bit of decaying organic matter will, or ashes, no living or sentient 'being' though. Which is why I am not wasting my life on made-up crap (i.e - religion).

[bluster]

Was there a 'pre-life' before we were born? No. There is no 'after-life' either. We didn't use to exist before life, we won't exist after it. Well, a bit of decaying organic matter will, or ashes, no living or sentient 'being' though. Which is why I am not wasting my life on made-up crap (i.e - religion).
That is a very weird belief system... What do you base it on?

[James]

Read it again, it isn't a belief system. I am merely demonstrating how illogical the notion that there is 'something after' really is. No one supposes that there was something before existence, but (how typical of a made-up story), but naturally, people suppose that there is something after. Why?
For some reason, people seem to have a real problem with getting their small minds around the concept of 'non-existence,' when in fact, they have already 'experienced' non-existence. (slightly paradoxical, the notion of 'experiencing' 'non-existence.' :P)

[bluster]

Hi James,

I´ve read it again and it still looks, walks, and talks like a belief system to me. The only logical conclusion I can take is that it is a belief system :P

Existence is before existence. Existence existed a long time before you made your entrance on its scene.

If you insist on identifying your "small mind" with the body it depends on on "existence" within the context of reality where you´ve made your appearence, your wish shall be granted, and you will perish along with it.

If you have half a brain and a touch of curiosity you can go a lot further ;)

Read it again, it isn't a belief system. I am merely demonstrating how illogical the notion that there is 'something after' really is. No one supposes that there was something before existence, but (how typical of a made-up story), but naturally, people suppose that there is something after. Why?
For some reason, people seem to have a real problem with getting their small minds around the concept of 'non-existence,' when in fact, they have already 'experienced' non-existence. (slightly paradoxical, the notion of 'experiencing' 'non-existence.' :P)

[TheSnake]

If you insist on identifying your "small mind" with the body it depends on on "existence" within the context of reality where you´ve made your appearence, your wish shall be granted, and you will perish along with it.

If you have half a brain and a touch of curiosity you can go a lot further ;)
Are you saying that if you believe you'll live for ever, then you shall?

[bluster]

If you insist on identifying your "small mind" with the body it depends on on "existence" within the context of reality where you´ve made your appearence, your wish shall be granted, and you will perish along with it.

If you have half a brain and a touch of curiosity you can go a lot further ;)
Are you saying that if you believe you'll live for ever, then you shall?
Who wants to live forever?!

Why would one want to stick around a small dusty planet in the backwaters of the universe? There is a lot more to do and to experience that is available to our limited imagination.

What I am saying is that one can assure one´s survival and continuation of existence through faith-activated association with the universal reality.

[Purity]

after death... cant undestand why people cant accept we are just another 'being' in the world, what happens when u crush an ant? the ant dies... nothing more, the body lays there, is broken down, re-cycled, when we die same shit happens, were sposed to be the most intelligent animal, which is true to a point, and yet, we cant accept the simplicity of death... we ask questions, why am i here? where am i going etc, i dont ask these questions, pointless stupidity... so in answer to your question, whats after death? Nothing, we die we rott in the ground, possible be cremated, we lay generally 6-ft under, and become worm meat :)

[TheSnake]

faith-activated association with the universal reality.
So you ARE saying that you can life forever, or atleast for a very long time, if you just believe.

[bluster]

faith-activated association with the universal reality.
So you ARE saying that you can life forever, or atleast for a very long time, if you just believe.
Define live...

[TheSnake]

Define live...
Not dead. Dead = absence of cognitive processes.

[bluster]

Define live...
Not dead. Dead = absence of cognitive processes.
Not good enough. There are plenty of people I know who are technically "dead" according to your definition. There are even some posting on this board ;)

[TheSnake]

There are plenty of people I know who are technically "dead" according to your definition.
Really? Do you work at a coma ward? Seriously, if you're braindead, you're as dead as you'll get. Besides what kind of life could you have without cognitive abilities of any kind?

[bluster]

Really? Do you work at a coma ward? Seriously, if you're braindead, you're as dead as you'll get. Besides what kind of life could you have without cognitive abilities of any kind?
No, I don´t work at a coma ward, but I do feel sometimes that I live in one :)

In our inner experience mind is joined to matter. Moreover, mind depends for its emergence and function on the brain. We can´t function as material beings without a mind and correspondingly without a brain. When higher brain function is disrupted, the mind is no more. One turns into a vegetable or, preferably, dies.

There is no survival there.

Survival is not based on the continuation of function of the human brain nor its corresponding mind.

You will need to give me a benefit of the doubt before I can try to explain what I think is happenning at death and how one can survive when brain is shut down and the mind is no more.

[TheSnake]

Survival is not based on the continuation of function of the human brain nor its corresponding mind.
Life without a mind is, well, mindless. I do not hold any value in a mindless existence.

[milk carton]

Personally, I think when you're dead... it's like deep sleep you know? That kind of sleep when time just flies by... and you're completely unaware of what's going on. Most likely it's like a deep sleep... I think...

[bluster]

Survival is not based on the continuation of function of the human brain nor its corresponding mind.
Life without a mind is, well, mindless. I do not hold any value in a mindless existence.
There is more to mind then you currently are capable of perceiving and understanding. The only kind of mind that you are familiar with is matter based and matter associated. It is the most primitive and limiting kind. Albeight, it is indispensible for our functioning and survival in the current state, the price of using it that we pay in terms of limited comprehension and understanding is terrific.

The death of material brain and the cessation of the function of the material mind is not the end of it. Existence that is possible after the end of the life in the flesh is not mindless. The mind that you employ is very different from what you´ve been using while on this planet, but it is a nevertheless a mind.

[bluster]

Personally, I think when you're dead... it's like deep sleep you know? That kind of sleep when time just flies by... and you're completely unaware of what's going on. Most likely it's like a deep sleep... I think...
Sleeping implies waking up. Nonexistence is IT. No sleeping, no waking up, nothing.

[milk carton]

That's what I meant. I was comparing it to deep sleep because you aren't aware of uuh.. your sleeping (haha). I wasn't talking about waking up because I highly doubt that's going to happen (rarely).

[bluster]

That's what I meant. I was comparing it to deep sleep because you aren't aware of uuh.. your sleeping (haha). I wasn't talking about waking up because I highly doubt that's going to happen (rarely).
I am not convinced that it is such a good comparison... Even when awake, you are hardly aware of 99% of the function of your mind. What is active is the consiousness and the information intake from the senses. The locus of attention while awake allows you to selectivly zoom in on diverse and unconnected aspects of reality. but your mind is largely out of your attention scope most of your life.

[ghoulslime]

Me too - stars or lights out, and not a goddamn thing I can do to change it. Scary? Yeah.:(

~ Ghoulslime
Jack of all offing, master of baiting.
I second you. Actually, there is nothing scary about it.
Speak for yourself! I have to sleep with a piglet doll so I can get to sleep! :(

http://ravingatheist.com/forum/img/uploads/disvampigplu.jpg

[TheSnake]

The death of material brain and the cessation of the function of the material mind is not the end of it. Existence that is possible after the end of the life in the flesh is not mindless. The mind that you employ is very different from what you´ve been using while on this planet, but it is a nevertheless a mind.
And this condition is what you called 'faith activated'. In other words, belief enables your non-corporeal mind (what ever that is) to live on after your body dies.
If the mind I employ after death is not the same that I have now, why do you think that it would be me? Different mind - different identity.

[bluster]

And this condition is what you called 'faith activated'. In other words, belief enables your non-corporeal mind (what ever that is) to live on after your body dies.
If the mind I employ after death is not the same that I have now, why do you think that it would be me? Different mind - different identity.
Greetings TheSnake,

Let me define "faith" as it is used in this sense. It is not some particular religious belief, magic formula, or particular ritual. Belief is, IMHO, an adherence to some particular set of ideas or facts believing them to be true. Faith is a real-time experience.

Your mind is not you. Aside from your body and your mind you also have a temporal identity and personality.

Your present mind is mostly concerned with providing for the functional existence of your body (and you) in the present context. Only a miniscule fraction of it is actually employed for thinking.

The mind that would be employed by your personality in the next fase of existence would not have to deal with the body, but it would be capable of accomodating your personality. I think it would still be you :)

[oliverwxyz]

Me too - stars or lights out, and not a goddamn thing I can do to change it. Scary? Yeah.:(

~ Ghoulslime
Jack of all offing, master of baiting.
I second you. Actually, there is nothing scary about it.
I think there is. I'm more or less convinced nowadays that all religion and supernatural beliefs are rubbish and just designed to offer some sort of comfort to people who don't want to think about not existing any more, or that the world/life isn't always very fair - they'd rather think there's a loving God who will sort everything out, and a Heaven, or at least some form of reincarnation.

I still find the idea that I have a short life and then won't exist (and same for my family and friends) a scary and sad thing as I've always believed from childhood in some form of eternal life and kind of thought that when shit stuff happens I can put it all in that bigger context. Quite a lot of shit and unfair things have happened to me and I'm not very happy with how my life is right now and if I can't sort it out well enough, that's it. I've just got a few more disappointing decades and then I die. Great. I suppose the thing is to focus on the good bits and try hard to get more of them and not dwell on stuff I can't change.

Oliver

[oliverwxyz]

By obvious I mean the fact that we are temporary. That are lives are short in comparison to the 'grand scheme' of things. That we are rather insignificant in this scheme, despite the importance we give ourselves and our kind.
And so what's the moral of the story? You mean we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously and wonder about such bollocks as if we are fulfilling our 'destiny' or changing the world in some amazing way.. or whatever - just enjoy what you can, try and get along with people and not add to the world's unhappiness too much etc. ?

Oliver

[TheSnake]

I've just got a few more disappointing decades and then I die. Great. I suppose the thing is to focus on the good bits and try hard to get more of them and not dwell on stuff I can't change.
I think this what most people are really afraid of. Life is often suffering and if in the end you just die, what's it all worth?
The whole point of not fearing death as the non-existence it is, is that it's the end of everything. Once you die, you won't suffer, worry, be sad, remember, forget, feel pleasure, etc. It's The End and for me that brings certain comfort.

[bluster]

Greetings Oliver,

Your belief system is depressing and sad as are all dead end convictions. Nevertheless, it is your choice and your reality.

You don´t have to run to the comforting (not!) embrace of some sort of a religious belief or some other placibo substitute.

Technically, while being a mortal adult, you are a spiritual fetus. This fact alone explains your lack of capacity of understanding reality that transcends the sand-box world you live in now.

Religions and superstitious beliefs may be rubbish, but there are some pearls of truth and wisdom that are conteined therein.

The fact that you have to be "born of spirit", through faith - willingness to believe, to open up your mind to the possibility and then to the actuality of the emergence and the existence of the supermaterial you.

There are no religions, priests, "holy books", rituals, sacrifices... that can do this for you. Only the willful choice of your mind, sincere desire to rid your mind from the shackles of the material thinking and being can initiate those transformations within you that can literally open up hte universe for you and insure your survival.

I think there is. I'm more or less convinced nowadays that all religion and supernatural beliefs are rubbish and just designed to offer some sort of comfort to people who don't want to think about not existing any more, or that the world/life isn't always very fair - they'd rather think there's a loving God who will sort everything out, and a Heaven, or at least some form of reincarnation.

I still find the idea that I have a short life and then won't exist (and same for my family and friends) a scary and sad thing as I've always believed from childhood in some form of eternal life and kind of thought that when shit stuff happens I can put it all in that bigger context. Quite a lot of shit and unfair things have happened to me and I'm not very happy with how my life is right now and if I can't sort it out well enough, that's it. I've just got a few more disappointing decades and then I die. Great. I suppose the thing is to focus on the good bits and try hard to get more of them and not dwell on stuff I can't change.
Oliver

[RedRob]

Bluster, what are you somoking and where can I get some?:lol::lol::lol::| Come back to reality it can be just as nice as your dream world.:D

[bluster]

Hey RedRob,

Actually, I haven´t been smoking for a while :) and somewhat out of touch with the suppliers :) :)

What reality do you want me to come back to? What is so nice about it?

Bluster, what are you somoking and where can I get some?:lol::lol::lol::| Come back to reality it can be just as nice as your dream world.:D

[calpurnpiso]

And this condition is what you called 'faith activated'. In other words, belief enables your non-corporeal mind (what ever that is) to live on after your body dies.
If the mind I employ after death is not the same that I have now, why do you think that it would be me? Different mind - different identity.
Greetings TheSnake,

Let me define "faith" as it is used in this sense. It is not some particular religious belief, magic formula, or particular ritual. Belief is, IMHO, an adherence to some particular set of ideas or facts believing them to be true. Faith is a real-time experience.

Your mind is not you. Aside from your body and your mind you also have a temporal identity and personality.

Your present mind is mostly concerned with providing for the functional existence of your body (and you) in the present context. Only a miniscule fraction of it is actually employed for thinking.

The mind that would be employed by your personality in the next fase of existence would not have to deal with the body, but it would be capable of accomodating your personality. I think it would still be you :)
The BRAIN creates the mind, and it can suffer from mental illness ( religious psychosis is one of them), and its performance can be altered with electromagnetism, chemicals...ergo changing its identity! ( the self). Since faith is always inversely proportional to knowledge and information and the brain produces it, mental retardation where knowledge is absent and reality perception affected, it is reasonable to say religious people are mentaly retarded. The brains CREATE god and not the other way around. Facts are facts and illusions perceived as facts is for nuts...:)

[bluster]

Greetings calpurnpiso,

A very "inspired statement :)

There is undoubtedly a relationship between the brain and the mind. You are also correct about the fact that in human beings brain is antdecent to the appearnce of mind and that the mind depends for its functional capacity on the brain.

I am very curious to learn about the facts based on which you deny existence of intelligence that is superior to human and of mind whose capacity far transcends the capacity of all human minds (past, present, and the future) put together.

Please, enlighten us.

The BRAIN creates the mind, and it can suffer from mental illness ( religious psychosis is one of them), and its performance can be altered with electromagnetism, chemicals...ergo changing its identity! ( the self). Since faith is always inversely proportional to knowledge and information and the brain produces it, mental retardation where knowledge is absent and reality perception affected, it is reasonable to say religious people are mentaly retarded. The brains CREATE god and not the other way around. Facts are facts and illusions perceived as facts is for nuts...:)

[oliverwxyz]

Greetings Oliver,

Your belief system is depressing and sad as are all dead end convictions. Nevertheless, it is your choice and your reality.

You don´t have to run to the comforting (not!) embrace of some sort of a religious belief or some other placibo substitute.

Technically, while being a mortal adult, you are a spiritual fetus. This fact alone explains your lack of capacity of understanding reality that transcends the sand-box world you live in now.

Religions and superstitious beliefs may be rubbish, but there are some pearls of truth and wisdom that are conteined therein.

The fact that you have to be "born of spirit", through faith - willingness to believe, to open up your mind to the possibility and then to the actuality of the emergence and the existence of the supermaterial you.

There are no religions, priests, "holy books", rituals, sacrifices... that can do this for you. Only the willful choice of your mind, sincere desire to rid your mind from the shackles of the material thinking and being can initiate those transformations within you that can literally open up hte universe for you and insure your survival.
Hello Bluster

Hmm, I am somewhat underwhelmed by your assessment of me as being 'spiritual fetus', but hey, that's your view. You seem to make it rather hastily as you don't know me very well. On the other hand I don't believe in anything called a 'spirit' so I find what posts of yours I've read to be mostly incomprehensible. You seem not to be traditionally religious yet still seem to believe in some kind of higher reality, but I've no idea exactly you mean by this.
I believe that what people describe as 'spiritual' is just good experiences and states of mind like peace, fulfilment, love, enjoment of nature or the arts, feeling accepted etc. These things exist but unfortunately so do bad experiences and feelings, and I've had too many of the latter and not enough of the former recently, but that's life I guess.
I find no evidence for any 'higher' purpose behing existance beyond the material, looking at things in the cold light of reason. I have explored many religions and spiritualities and would like to believe in something, but don't think I honestly can because I believe in looking for the truth. There are a number of things we can't explain fully, but the truth is no one can and comforting stories or fuzzy emotional experiences that might be claimed to be 'spiritual' don't change that.

Oliver

[RedRob]

Hey RedRob,

Actually, I haven´t been smoking for a while :) and somewhat out of touch with the suppliers :) :)

What reality do you want me to come back to? What is so nice about it?
Despite what you might believe there is only one reality, the material one. You know the one where you and I are human animals located on a spec of dust called earth. This spec of dust is filled with beautiful examples of life there for us to enjoy and understand. Understanding it self is great since we seem to be the only spices on this planet capable of understanding complex process of our home…. I’m not going to keep going since I can keep going forever but someone like me just won’t convince someone like you since you are living in a completely different world where the beauty of the “real” world is not apparent to you. Only you yourself are capable of changing you current mind state into a mind state which accepts our, at first ugly material reality, but with understanding, beautiful reality. Good luck with your never-ending search for a better reality.
Red Rob

[ChiefOfAss]

Aiight Bluster... I rewrote this about four times in an attempt to dial down the sarcasm.... after all that, the best I can do is point out how magnetically assailable the following statement is (in bold):

There is undoubtedly a relationship between the brain and the mind. You are also correct about the fact that in human beings brain is antdecent to the appearnce of mind and that the mind depends for its functional capacity on the brain.
We're all glad you agree. You may also be interested to learn that Viking scientists have discovered a possible link to the application of sail power and winds on the open seas as it relates to forward movement. Oooooops - there it was! Sorry... Seriously, I won't do it again. A real response follows:

I am very curious to learn about the facts based on which you deny existence of intelligence that is superior to human and of mind whose capacity far transcends the capacity of all human minds (past, present, and the future) put together.

Please, enlighten us.
Well... I don't know what the other guy might say, but here's the thing: Imagine the whole "Question" (whatever the question may be) as if it were a case being tried in a United States Court. What's on trial here is the set of interconnected properties of the known universe versus the existence of a state of human consciousness that is not called for in the body of man's knowledge.

And, just like if you were standing before the Supreme Court, YOU need to make the case. What you assert does not work within the framework of what we know today. That, of course, does not mean it can't be... but, since YOU are the one challenging what is known, the burden is upon you to reconcile the pieces of the framework that your "charge" would shatter.

Just like when evolution challenged the accepted facts of the day, you'd need a MOUNTAIN of evidence. However, unlike evolution, your ideas about a non-corporal conscience (or whatever the precise term) doesn't NEED to be placed into the framework. No one has to "deny" the existence of a conscience outside the body, you have to affirm it.

Just imagine what would happen if things *didn't* work that way. You could assert literally anything, and if it couldn't be disproven, it would have to be included in the collection of the theoretically possible. For instance, I could assert that I was the corporal manifestation of God. No one could "deny" that, and so it would, by your reasoning, be wise to keep the door open to that possibility.

A little nation in Pacific called Japan tried that, and it worked for centuries (until almost exactly 60 years ago).

Explain how such a thing as your transcendent mind idea is possible instead of requiring someone else explain how it is impossible. Then, you'd be getting somewhere.

BTW: Since I've been reading this forum, gazillions of requests have gone out to people asserting things just like you. No one that I know of has even TRIED, so.... please, be a pioneer.

[bluster]

Hey Oliver,

Hmm, I am somewhat underwhelmed by your assessment of me as being 'spiritual fetus', but hey, that's your view. You seem to make it rather hastily as you don't know me very well.
I didn´t mean it in a deragatory way :) On the other hand, even a spiritual toddler (such as myself) can recognize a fetus. If it walks like a fetus, if it talks like a fetus, if it posts... never mind. I am just joking around.

It is true that I do not know you. That is why I have to base my assesment of you by your statements and your professed beliefs. Please, let me know if I get you wrong at any moment.

On the other hand I don't believe in anything called a 'spirit' so I find what posts of yours I've read to be mostly incomprehensible. You seem not to be traditionally religious yet still seem to believe in some kind of higher reality, but I've no idea exactly you mean by this.
What I mean by higher reality is reality that is ancestral, transcendent, and superior in all aspects to what can be discerned by an unaided human mind. It is also personal and all encompassing.

What do you mean when you say that you don´t believe in anything called a 'spirit'?

I believe that what people describe as 'spiritual' is just good experiences and states of mind like peace, fulfilment, love, enjoment of nature or the arts, feeling accepted etc. These things exist but unfortunately so do bad experiences and feelings, and I've had too many of the latter and not enough of the former recently, but that's life I guess.
Cheer up. You good and bad experiences are there to be taken advantage of. On the other hand, I hope that things turn around for you. I do not refer to good experiences or feelings as 'spiritual'. In my understanding, spiritual aspect of reality lies beyond emotional level of human mind. Interaction with and experience of the spiritual reality can and does cause emotional reactions and feelings (so does lack of this interaction), but we are talking about a consequence and not the cause/essence.

I find no evidence for any 'higher' purpose behing existance beyond the material, looking at things in the cold light of reason. I have explored many religions and spiritualities and would like to believe in something, but don't think I honestly can because I believe in looking for the truth. There are a number of things we can't explain fully, but the truth is no one can and comforting stories or fuzzy emotional experiences that might be claimed to be 'spiritual' don't change that.
This is because you´ve not looked for ´higher´purpose or have looked at the wrong places. I believe that the reasoning that lead you to form this pessimistic and limiting reality frame is truly cold, subjective, biased, and superficial.

If you are looking for the truth and are not afraid to look for it anywhere where you can find it, we can try.

I promise that we are not going to dwell on comforting stories nor participate in fuzzy emotional experiences.

We will look for facts, meanings, ideas, ideals... in short, for truth.

What do you say?

[bluster]

Greetings ChiefOfAss,

Aiight Bluster... I rewrote this about four times in an attempt to dial down the sarcasm.... after all that, the best I can do is point out how magnetically assailable the following statement is (in bold):
No need to tune down the sarcasm. I can take some and I can give some. Actually, I prefer an honest bare-knucke discussion to a gloved but insincere intercourse. now, let´s see what you´ve written...

See the next post:

[bluster]

Well... I don't know what the other guy might say, but here's the thing: Imagine the whole "Question" (whatever the question may be) as if it were a case being tried in a United States Court. What's on trial here is the set of interconnected properties of the known universe versus the existence of a state of human consciousness that is not called for in the body of man's knowledge.
I love it. Are you suggesting that we litigate scientific, philosophical, and religious issues? I do not mean the political, social, economical, and other consequences of the above-named factors, but the truth?

On the other hand, I do not mind a discussion of the above stated topics with fairly rigorous intellectual requirements and mutually satisfying and honest propositions, opinioins, and possibilities.

And, just like if you were standing before the Supreme Court, YOU need to make the case. What you assert does not work within the framework of what we know today. That, of course, does not mean it can't be... but, since YOU are the one challenging what is known, the burden is upon you to reconcile the pieces of the framework that your "charge" would shatter.
Screw the Supreme Court, and screw the case making. Would you like a discussion or a trial where the truth can be easily sacrificed to the imperfections of judgement and dismissed on technicalities.

Just like when evolution challenged the accepted facts of the day, you'd need a MOUNTAIN of evidence. However, unlike evolution, your ideas about a non-corporal conscience (or whatever the precise term) doesn't NEED to be placed into the framework. No one has to "deny" the existence of a conscience outside the body, you have to affirm it.
OK, I can try to do it.

Just imagine what would happen if things *didn't* work that way. You could assert literally anything, and if it couldn't be disproven, it would have to be included in the collection of the theoretically possible. For instance, I could assert that I was the corporal manifestation of God. No one could "deny" that, and so it would, by your reasoning, be wise to keep the door open to that possibility.
that is a scary possibility :o

A little nation in Pacific called Japan tried that, and it worked for centuries (until almost exactly 60 years ago).
I wish it were only Japan. Alas, history repeats itself...

Explain how such a thing as your transcendent mind idea is possible instead of requiring someone else explain how it is impossible. Then, you'd be getting somewhere.

BTW: Since I've been reading this forum, gazillions of requests have gone out to people asserting things just like you. No one that I know of has even TRIED, so.... please, be a pioneer.
OK, that is easy. But we will need to go waa-a-a-a-a-a-ay back and start from a scratch. Are you willing to do it?

[TheSnake]

OK, that is easy. But we will need to go waa-a-a-a-a-a-ay back and start from a scratch. Are you willing to do it?
Please do explain your beliefs in a manner that can be understood by a skeptical atheist, I lost your views back there in all the mysticism. You could maybe start a new thread: "Blusters beliefs"? ;)

[bluster]

OK, that is easy. But we will need to go waa-a-a-a-a-a-ay back and start from a scratch. Are you willing to do it?
Please do explain your beliefs in a manner that can be understood by a skeptical atheist, I lost your views back there in all the mysticism. You could maybe start a new thread: "Blusters beliefs"? ;)
OK, I am starting a new thread and will call it let´s say Search for Truth. Would you mind if I ask a few questions before revealing my beliefs?

[ChiefOfAss]

Screw the Supreme Court, and screw the case making. Would you like a discussion or a trial where the truth can be easily sacrificed to the imperfections of judgement and dismissed on technicalities.
Did you really miss the point? I was just hoping that, since most people accept the principle of burden of proof, I could help you understand why the whole idea of "well... you can't prove it's not true...." just doesn't work for scientific types.

And.... I'll join the thread... I can't wait to see history being made.

[bluster]

Screw the Supreme Court, and screw the case making. Would you like a discussion or a trial where the truth can be easily sacrificed to the imperfections of judgement and dismissed on technicalities.
Did you really miss the point? I was just hoping that, since most people accept the principle of burden of proof, I could help you understand why the whole idea of "well... you can't prove it's not true...." just doesn't work for scientific types.

And.... I'll join the thread... I can't wait to see history being made.
Actually, I got the point. I only look dumb :) The topic is up. Looking forward to butting heads with you there.

[oliverwxyz]

Hi Bluster

Hey Oliver,

I didn´t mean it in a deragatory way :) On the other hand, even a spiritual toddler (such as myself) can recognize a fetus. If it walks like a fetus, if it talks like a fetus, if it posts... never mind. I am just joking around.

It is true that I do not know you. That is why I have to base my assesment of you by your statements and your professed beliefs. Please, let me know if I get you wrong at any moment.
OK, I accept it wasn't meant as an insult. However I still think that your concepts of spirituality and spiritual 'maturity' etc seem like a fantasy. I will read your new thread to find out more.

What I mean by higher reality is reality that is ancestral, transcendent, and superior in all aspects to what can be discerned by an unaided human mind. It is also personal and all encompassing.
Sounds pretty vague to me. Where is it? What does it consist of? How is it different from anything we experience inside our heads that can be assumed to be a result of genetic inheritance/ life experiences and biological processes?

What do you mean when you say that you don´t believe in anything called a 'spirit'?
I think what people call spirit is just a way of referring to the 'finer' aspects of their aspirations/personalities etc.. once the day to day requirements of food, shelter etc are taken care of, such as nurturing feelings of empathy, inner peace and joy, creativity, escape from worry and loneliness etc.. and they describe experiences that boost these things as being spiritual and imagine they are concerned with some eternal, incorporeal part of themselves - ie a soul or spirit - or a connection with God or the universe etc.. I don't think any of that is true apart from eg perhaps it could be said that focussing less on our individual egos and worries and feeling oneself to be a valid part of the universe 'at one' with nature, could conceivably be a helpful attitude to cultivate. Nothing 'spiritual' going on there as such though.

I believe that what people describe as 'spiritual' is just good experiences and states of mind like peace, fulfilment, love, enjoment of nature or the arts, feeling accepted etc. These things exist but unfortunately so do bad experiences and feelings, and I've had too many of the latter and not enough of the former recently, but that's life I guess.
Cheer up. You good and bad experiences are there to be taken advantage of. On the other hand, I hope that things turn around for you.
Thanks.

If you are looking for the truth and are not afraid to look for it anywhere where you can find it, we can try.

I promise that we are not going to dwell on comforting stories nor participate in fuzzy emotional experiences.

We will look for facts, meanings, ideas, ideals... in short, for truth.

What do you say?
Sounds alright I guess. As I say, I'll check out your new post.

Oliver

[bluster]

Hi Bluster

OK, I accept it wasn't meant as an insult. However I still think that your concepts of spirituality and spiritual 'maturity' etc seem like a fantasy. I will read your new thread to find out more.
It may seem to you like a fantasy, but I can assure you that it is not. It is real, more real then anything you´ve ever known. Well, I will just let you see it for yourself...

Sounds pretty vague to me. Where is it? What does it consist of? How is it different from anything we experience inside our heads that can be assumed to be a result of genetic inheritance/ life experiences and biological processes?
If you would like that I give you a chemical formula, weight, color, and density of the spiritual reality, chances are I will not be able to do it. If you would like me to show you how you can contact and experience this reality, I can try. You will sort out the rest in the process.

I think what people call spirit is just a way of referring to the 'finer' aspects of their aspirations/personalities etc.. once the day to day requirements of food, shelter etc are taken care of, such as nurturing feelings of empathy, inner peace and joy, creativity, escape from worry and loneliness etc.. and they describe experiences that boost these things as being spiritual and imagine they are concerned with some eternal, incorporeal part of themselves - ie a soul or spirit - or a connection with God or the universe etc.. I don't think any of that is true apart from eg perhaps it could be said that focussing less on our individual egos and worries and feeling oneself to be a valid part of the universe 'at one' with nature, could conceivably be a helpful attitude to cultivate. Nothing 'spiritual' going on there as such though.
Not bad. But it is not what I mean by spirit. and it is not what "spiritual" reality is about. Once again, you will see for yourself.

[Philboid Studge]

Hi bluster,

Way back in this thread I was trying to get your explanation of how things that are beyond comprehension of the human brain can be comprehended (by bluster or anyone else with a human brain).

... the mind alone is not capable of penetrating the mystery of reality except in fractional and disorganized manner that doesn´t let it beyond scratching the surface, but within each individual mind there is a tremendous presence that can be activated and used as guide and assistance in tackling the reality as the whole.
I feel this simply restates the original dilemma. I.e., you are saying the mind can't do it, but something within the mind can? So, the mind alone can do it, because 'each individual mind' is so equipped? Huh?

Anyway, are you saying this magical thing that can be both of the mind and seperate from it at the same time is 'God,' or something like it? How do you know every mind has this property? Did yours 'tell' you? (I hope that last bit doesn't come across as derision -- I'm really going for brevity here.)

[Wiredrawn]

Is it an atheist sin to doubt that death turns you into nothing more than worm food? :(
It's not like I think a little angel is gonna guide me throught the light but I still sometimes wonder.

[oliverwxyz]

[
Not bad. But it is not what I mean by spirit. and it is not what "spiritual" reality is about. Once again, you will see for yourself.
OK, well if you can genuinely show me how to experience your version of spirituality and benefit from it, then please do.

Oliver

[bluster]

OK, well if you can genuinely show me how to experience your version of spirituality and benefit from it, then please do.
I´ll try. Except, I am not going to feed you my beliefs nor my version of spirituality. What I will try to do is to help you discover your own version of truth and to initiate your own experience. You´ll take it from there.

[oliverwxyz]

So how is it done then? What next?

[bluster]

Hey PS,

I can´t do miracles nor can I enlighten you with a snap of a finger.

Let me restate, that based on my experience, individual human mind can´t alone penetrate to a greater depth of reality understanding.

I believe that every normal human mind contains within itself a part of ancestral, transcendental reality that can enable (if the mind wills so) each human mind evolve the capacity for understanding of reality and develop the universal insight that far transcends capability level of an unaided human mind.

Aside from my belief and experience, I can observe the function of this reality in the minds of other people.

Yes, some people and religions refer to this reality as spirit or 'god'. I prefer the term Thought Adjuster. For, since, I can´t see or feel it, I can detect its presence and interact with it through my thought process.

No, I don´t hear any voices. I do not believe in ghosts, spirits, UFOs, or gods of conventional religions.

Sorry, that is about as brief as I can be on the subject.

Hi bluster,

Way back in this thread I was trying to get your explanation of how things that are beyond comprehension of the human brain can be comprehended (by bluster or anyone else with a human brain).

I feel this simply restates the original dilemma. I.e., you are saying the mind can't do it, but something within the mind can? So, the mind alone can do it, because 'each individual mind' is so equipped? Huh?

Anyway, are you saying this magical thing that can be both of the mind and seperate from it at the same time is 'God,' or something like it? How do you know every mind has this property? Did yours 'tell' you? (I hope that last bit doesn't come across as derision -- I'm really going for brevity here.)

[bluster]

Is it an atheist sin to doubt that death turns you into nothing more than worm food? :(
Yes, it is. The punishment is an eternal subjection to the conversion efforts of a couple of Jehova Witnesses :)

It's not like I think a little angel is gonna guide me throught the light but I still sometimes wonder.
Are you wondering if an angel is actually bigger then you think or what?

[Wiredrawn]

Is it an atheist sin to doubt that death turns you into nothing more than worm food? :(
Yes, it is. The punishment is an eternal subjection to the conversion efforts of a couple of Jehova Witnesses :)

It's not like I think a little angel is gonna guide me throught the light but I still sometimes wonder.
Are you wondering if an angel is actually bigger then you think or what?
No, I wonder if something...anything actually happens after death (but only on really bad day). It's just that nobody ever comes back and talks about the experience and that makes it an unknown.

you're such a meany http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/4_9_7[1].gif

[bluster]

No, I wonder if something...anything actually happens after death (but only on really bad day). It's just that nobody ever comes back and talks about the experience and that makes it an unknown.

you're such a meany http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/4_9_7[1].gif
Sorry, I´ll be more gentle in the future :rolleyes:

My guess is that it is soo good after death that nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody, wants to come back or even bother remembering those of us left behind :(

On the other hand, I wouldn´t sweat it. You and I will find out first hand what is "out there" sooner or later.

Actually, you might do so sooner then later if you ever call me a meany again :mad:

[Wiredrawn]

No, I wonder if something...anything actually happens after death (but only on really bad day). It's just that nobody ever comes back and talks about the experience and that makes it an unknown.

you're such a meany http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/4_9_7[1].gif
Sorry, I´ll be more gentle in the future :rolleyes:

My guess is that it is soo good after death that nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody, wants to come back or even bother remembering those of us left behind :(

On the other hand, I wouldn´t sweat it. You and I will find out first hand what is "out there" sooner or later.

Actually, you might do so sooner then later if you ever call me a meany again :mad:
So "meany" is the red button, huh?


http://www.my-smileys.de/generator/signs2/fbe3286a4c5708942d1f91e28c8922a0.png

[calpurnpiso]

Due to our brain's chemical reactions and electromagnetism, the thinking process, we know what comes after death ! The truth is hard to accept, so we must create ILLUSIONS to act as a neurological anesthesia..ergo religious-psychosis. We must create these illusions because the brain makes us what we are, it is composed of mini universes in the shape of atoms, particles of atoms which form molecules which in turn make neurons where electrical storms CREATE our mind, thus the self, organizing the whole system with exquisite order due to billions of years of chance happenings. This fact is hard to accept.

When disorganization occurrs ( death), a liberation of molecules changes the chemistry of the flesh by decomposition, creating in turn new life forms! We, the product of evolved biological forms resulting in awareness of their own existence, will cease to exist as a human unit after death. Life after dead, benevolent gods, and rest of neurological delusional niceties are simple attempts at calming a PANIC brain at the mere thought of its finality!...but, there is no death without life and no non-existence without existence. The brain makes us what we are, creator of gods, dreams and human beings so let's enjoy this ONE time of existence we have to the fullest without ruining it by infecting our brains with religious psychosis.........:)

[Wiredrawn]

Due to our brain's chemical reactions and electromagnetism, the thinking process, we know what comes after death ! The truth is hard to accept, so we must create ILLUSIONS to act as a neurological anesthesia..ergo religious-psychosis. We must create these illusions because the brain makes us what we are, it is composed of mini universes in the shape of atoms, particles of atoms which form molecules which in turn make neurons where electrical storms CREATE our mind, thus the self, organizing the whole system with exquisite order due to billions of years of chance happenings. This fact is hard to accept.

When disorganization occurrs ( death), a liberation of molecules changes the chemistry of the flesh by decomposition, creating in turn new life forms! We, the product of evolved biological forms resulting in awareness of their own existence, will cease to exist as a human unit after death. Life after dead, benevolent gods, and rest of neurological delusional niceties are simple attempts at calming a PANIC brain at the mere thought of its finality!...but, there is no death without life and no non-existence without existence. The brain makes us what we are, creator of gods, dreams and human beings so let's enjoy this ONE time of existence we have to the fullest without ruining it by infecting our brains with religious psychosis.........:)
right on :cool:

[TheSnake]

Would you mind if I ask a few questions before revealing my beliefs?
Go ahead.

[bluster]

Due to our brain's chemical reactions and electromagnetism, the thinking process, we know what comes after death ! The truth is hard to accept, so we must create ILLUSIONS to act as a neurological anesthesia..ergo religious-psychosis. We must create these illusions because the brain makes us what we are, it is composed of mini universes in the shape of atoms, particles of atoms which form molecules which in turn make neurons where electrical storms CREATE our mind, thus the self, organizing the whole system with exquisite order due to billions of years of chance happenings. This fact is hard to accept.
Really, we do? What comes after death?

Actually, it is OK to confuse reason with gambling, but you seem to profess insight into the nature of the mind which few people would agree on, and mostly none of the thinking people would.

When disorganization occurrs ( death), a liberation of molecules changes the chemistry of the flesh by decomposition, creating in turn new life forms! We, the product of evolved biological forms resulting in awareness of their own existence, will cease to exist as a human unit after death. Life after dead, benevolent gods, and rest of neurological delusional niceties are simple attempts at calming a PANIC brain at the mere thought of its finality!...but, there is no death without life and no non-existence without existence. The brain makes us what we are, creator of gods, dreams and human beings so let's enjoy this ONE time of existence we have to the fullest without ruining it by infecting our brains with religious psychosis.........:)
So, the brain is your god ? :)

[bluster]

Would you mind if I ask a few questions before revealing my beliefs?
Go ahead.
Here: http://ravingatheist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1234

[miata]

Where do you think we go, or what do you think happens after we die? Do we simply become born into another body? Do we black out from all existance? What are your beliefs?
I think you return to the place you were prior to birth; remember now.
Miata

[bluster]

Hey Miata,

I remember :) Neah...

Do you really think that it is back to the square one?


Where do you think we go, or what do you think happens after we die? Do we simply become born into another body? Do we black out from all existance? What are your beliefs?
I think you return to the place you were prior to birth; remember now.
Miata

[snooples]

Where do you think we go, or what do you think happens after we die? Do we simply become born into another body? Do we black out from all existance? What are your beliefs?
The same place you were before you were born. Snooples

[Revmonkeyboy]

Dead is Dead. Plain and simple. You will not find answers to lifes mysteries. When the eyes close for the last time that is it. No thought, no pain, no fear, no judgement. We die just like ants or cats. When the heart stops it is all over.
This does not frighten me at all. The only thing that is important is that I am breathing NOW. The things I want to do have a time limit. Solve your problems and face your fears today. Do not whine your whole life and say you will make up for it in heaven. To do that is to waste the only thing you have, your life. I feel pretty damn happy to breath oxygen and will do it as long as I can. I enjoy it and love it. But that is no reason to make up a fantasy about what happens later. The only death I fear is one after a wasted life.

Revmonkeyboy

[vheltrite]

there is life after you die.............
is that what you mean???




there is no life after death..........
when you die..........
you just die.....................
your body decomposes and thats it................
your done.....................

[calpurnpiso]

bluster wrote:

"So, the brain is your god ?"

No, we humans are the true gods, the brain is the tool we use to create all of the phony ones. The fact is that those gods produced by our imagination, specially the Christian god, will not hold water to my JET (Jesus existence Test)..here it is. You can suggest to the Christ-psychotics that INSIST in him being a real entity, to take it and find out..:)

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go a top of a twenty story building bring your Babble and start praying and quoting and praying and still quoting and pray to your "Lord and Saviour" to assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, you'll find out, the Jesus Myth will NOT show up. He NEVER does ; and you'll find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder and temporal lobe epylepsy( Christ-psychosis). Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much you praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save you, since he doesn't exist. We created the god and the devil with our brains. Same delusion different poles.

This will immediately make them say : "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy god". Since the test has been created to test their Jesus delusion, it just proves my point...:)

[Flying Piss Pot]

bluster wrote:

"So, the brain is your god ?"

No, we humans are the true gods, the brain is the tool we use to create all of the phony ones. The fact is that those gods produced by our imagination, specially the Christian god, will not hold water to my JET (Jesus existence Test)..here it is. You can suggest to the Christ-psychotics that INSIST in him being a real entity, to take it and find out..:)

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go a top of a twenty story building bring your Babble and start praying and quoting and praying and still quoting and pray to your "Lord and Saviour" to assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, you'll find out, the Jesus Myth will NOT show up. He NEVER does ; and you'll find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder and temporal lobe epylepsy( Christ-psychosis). Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much you praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save you, since he doesn't exist. We created the god and the devil with our brains. Same delusion different poles.

This will immediately make them say : "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy god". Since the test has been created to test their Jesus delusion, it just proves my point...:)
Totally and exactly. They will also use the easy "God gave us free will" to explain why he doesn't appeare or do anything to save you.

I believe that once you die, you are transported to a really cool bar where all drinks are free and you never get drunk. CHEERS! everyone!

[bluster]

Hi calpurnpiso,

If you are a god, why then would you make a splash when you hit the pavement after jumping from the building?

I mean, if you´d use half of your brain and turn on your mind once in a while, you´d be able to see and understand a little more.


bluster wrote:

"So, the brain is your god ?"

No, we humans are the true gods, the brain is the tool we use to create all of the phony ones. The fact is that those gods produced by our imagination, specially the Christian god, will not hold water to my JET (Jesus existence Test)..here it is. You can suggest to the Christ-psychotics that INSIST in him being a real entity, to take it and find out..:)

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go a top of a twenty story building bring your Babble and start praying and quoting and praying and still quoting and pray to your "Lord and Saviour" to assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, you'll find out, the Jesus Myth will NOT show up. He NEVER does ; and you'll find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder and temporal lobe epylepsy( Christ-psychosis). Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much you praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save you, since he doesn't exist. We created the god and the devil with our brains. Same delusion different poles.

This will immediately make them say : "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy god". Since the test has been created to test their Jesus delusion, it just proves my point...:)

[snap crafter]

Hi calpurnpiso,

If you are a god, why then would you make a splash when you hit the pavement after jumping from the building?

I mean, if you´d use half of your brain and turn on your mind once in a while, you´d be able to see and understand a little more.


bluster wrote:

"So, the brain is your god ?"

No, we humans are the true gods, the brain is the tool we use to create all of the phony ones. The fact is that those gods produced by our imagination, specially the Christian god, will not hold water to my JET (Jesus existence Test)..here it is. You can suggest to the Christ-psychotics that INSIST in him being a real entity, to take it and find out..:)

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go a top of a twenty story building bring your Babble and start praying and quoting and praying and still quoting and pray to your "Lord and Saviour" to assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, you'll find out, the Jesus Myth will NOT show up. He NEVER does ; and you'll find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder and temporal lobe epylepsy( Christ-psychosis). Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much you praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save you, since he doesn't exist. We created the god and the devil with our brains. Same delusion different poles.

This will immediately make them say : "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy god". Since the test has been created to test their Jesus delusion, it just proves my point...:)

Oddly enough, I don't think you got the point of his little rant there bluster.

[calpurnpiso]

Hi calpurnpiso,

If you are a god, why then would you make a splash when you hit the pavement after jumping from the building?

I mean, if you´d use half of your brain and turn on your mind once in a while, you´d be able to see and understand a little more.


bluster wrote:

"So, the brain is your god ?"

No, we humans are the true gods, the brain is the tool we use to create all of the phony ones. The fact is that those gods produced by our imagination, specially the Christian god, will not hold water to my JET (Jesus existence Test)..here it is. You can suggest to the Christ-psychotics that INSIST in him being a real entity, to take it and find out..:)

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go a top of a twenty story building bring your Babble and start praying and quoting and praying and still quoting and pray to your "Lord and Saviour" to assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, you'll find out, the Jesus Myth will NOT show up. He NEVER does ; and you'll find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder and temporal lobe epylepsy( Christ-psychosis). Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much you praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save you, since he doesn't exist. We created the god and the devil with our brains. Same delusion different poles.

This will immediately make them say : "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy god". Since the test has been created to test their Jesus delusion, it just proves my point...:)

Oddly enough, I don't think you got the point of his little rant there bluster.
How can hE?...he is floating in the world of Christian delusions, so, my JET wll make him land, no?..:)

[bluster]

Oddly enough, I don't think you got the point of his little rant there bluster.
really? Would you enlighten me as to the meaning of his rant?

[bluster]

How can hE?...he is floating in the world of Christian delusions, so, my JET wll make him land, no?..:)
Hi calpurnpiso,

What made you decide that I am a Christian?

[vheltrite]

there is no life after death.........
when you die.............
you just die................
nothing else.........
your body is unable to move.............
and thats it you lie down and wait till your body decays........

[bluster]

You wait for your body to decade?! LOL!!!


there is no life after death.........
when you die.............
you just die................
nothing else.........
your body is unable to move.............
and thats it you lie down and wait till your body decays........

[miata]

We are eaten by worms, I am going to be cremated placed in tea bags and be served at the Whitehouse.

[benjaminbp18]

Where do you think we go, or what do you think happens after we die? Do we simply become born into another body? Do we black out from all existance? What are your beliefs?
Since the mind is the emergent phenomenon of a complex network of electric signals being transferred between the nuerons in the brain, brain death (the cease of all elecrical activity) is theoretically the end of consciousness. As far as what happens after, your body decays and you return to nonexistence, the way things were before you were born. It's silly to think that the mind, "who we are" or whatever you want to call it lives on in a form that people call the soul or spirit. Since "who we are" is a collection of experiences throughout life (ie networks stored in the brain) it would seem to me that the mind outside of the physical body would be senseless and devoid of meaning.