swearing

[oliverwxyz]

Hi

Something I was pondering about today while being annoyed by traffic, bad drivers etc..

Have you noticed how so many of our words to express annoyance etc are religious. Even if the traditionally-minded Chrsitian would possibly object to the way they 'take the Lord's name in vain' they are a constant reminder of the way religion permeates our thinking and culture. I'm English, but I guess it's about the same in American English - things like: Oh God!, Jesus!, Christ!, Hell!, Damn it!, - take those kind of things away and you're left mostly with words relating to sex and other bodily functions. Funny old thing language isn't it?

Oliver

[Wiredrawn]

that is kinda annoying but it makes sense that people express anger with religion

[oliverwxyz]

I suppose. I was just thinking how we'd have our work cut out to get rid of religion from people's heads altogether. And it's not even just expressing anger there must be loads of little phrases that are based on religion - off the top of my head 'for Heaven's sake', 'it was a miracle', 'she's an angel', even 'goodbye', which comes from God Be With You.

Oliver

[NihilistThug]

Christianity has been the dominant religion in European society for somewhere around 1500 years. Of course there are lots of phrases with religious context. So what? They're meaningless.

[Wiredrawn]

I suppose. I was just thinking how we'd have our work cut out to get rid of religion from people's heads altogether. And it's not even just expressing anger there must be loads of little phrases that are based on religion - off the top of my head 'for Heaven's sake', 'it was a miracle', 'she's an angel', even 'goodbye', which comes from God Be With You.

Oliver
I understand and i have talked to people about this before but it's not like we have the power to change a language. I think that eventually those phrases will drop out of the language and we'll have some more non religiuos ones, but I'm not sure that words like "goodbye" will dissapear because nobody really thinks about their origin very much.

[GodlessHeathen]

I suppose. I was just thinking how we'd have our work cut out to get rid of religion from people's heads altogether. And it's not even just expressing anger there must be loads of little phrases that are based on religion - off the top of my head 'for Heaven's sake', 'it was a miracle', 'she's an angel', even 'goodbye', which comes from God Be With You.

Oliver
I understand and i have talked to people about this before but it's not like we have the power to change a language. I think that eventually those phrases will drop out of the language and we'll have some more non religiuos ones, but I'm not sure that words like "goodbye" will dissapear because nobody really thinks about their origin very much.
How about we replace it with "smell ya later"?

[oliverwxyz]

Christianity has been the dominant religion in European society for somewhere around 1500 years. Of course there are lots of phrases with religious context. So what? They're meaningless.
Well fair point I guess. Bit like we don't worry much that the days of the week and months come from Pagan gods. Maybe same could apply for festivals - what do you think? That in years to come we still might still celebrate a winter festival called Christmas but it could eventually lose it's connection with a historical Christ?

Oliver

[oliverwxyz]

I suppose. I was just thinking how we'd have our work cut out to get rid of religion from people's heads altogether. And it's not even just expressing anger there must be loads of little phrases that are based on religion - off the top of my head 'for Heaven's sake', 'it was a miracle', 'she's an angel', even 'goodbye', which comes from God Be With You.

Oliver
I understand and i have talked to people about this before but it's not like we have the power to change a language. I think that eventually those phrases will drop out of the language and we'll have some more non religiuos ones, but I'm not sure that words like "goodbye" will dissapear because nobody really thinks about their origin very much.
Yeah. Maybe the 'goodbye' example was a bit pedantic of me. I suppose you';re right. We can't really change laguage and it evolves in a natural way, leaving lots of historcial vestiges along the way.

oliver

[NihilistThug]

Christianity has been the dominant religion in European society for somewhere around 1500 years. Of course there are lots of phrases with religious context. So what? They're meaningless.
Well fair point I guess. Bit like we don't worry much that the days of the week and months come from Pagan gods. Maybe same could apply for festivals - what do you think? That in years to come we still might still celebrate a winter festival called Christmas but it could eventually lose it's connection with a historical Christ?

Oliver
I actually appreciate Wotensday and Thorsday. I like the Nordic pantheon.

[bobfritzelpuff]

I don't understand swear words anyway. People are afraid of a word. A WORD! It isn't any differant from any other word, so why are people afraid of it? Just like the word please- why the hell do we need to say 'please?' How does that make something more polite? Because you spared an extra second and breath? Why should a single overused word make you be more polite? Shouldn't politeness be about tone of voice?

Language is messed up- people are too wraped up in the use of small words.

[Wiredrawn]

I don't understand swear words anyway. People are afraid of a word. A WORD! It isn't any differant from any other word, so why are people afraid of it? Just like the word please- why the hell do we need to say 'please?' How does that make something more polite? Because you spared an extra second and breath? Why should a single overused word make you be more polite? Shouldn't politeness be about tone of voice?

Language is messed up- people are too wraped up in the use of small words.
you're so happy go lucky... http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/kaos2.gif

actually, i do agree with you on some level but the words we use are important cause tone of voice cannot always be heard. In writing for example

[ghoulslime]

I don't understand swear words anyway. People are afraid of a word. A WORD! It isn't any differant from any other word, so why are people afraid of it? Just like the word please- why the hell do we need to say 'please?' How does that make something more polite? Because you spared an extra second and breath? Why should a single overused word make you be more polite? Shouldn't politeness be about tone of voice?

Language is messed up- people are too wraped up in the use of small words.
Abso-fucking-lutely correct! :D

[Kamikaze189]

I'm bothered by something I'm sure most of you have no problem with; I see no reason for all these "thank you"s and "your welcome"s. Really, does it matter if someone, especially a random stranger, says that they appreciate you holding a door? They probably do, whether or not they say it. So what if they don't appreciate it, you helped them.

Also, has anyone else noticed how people no longer say "No, thanks" but instead "No thanks".
The meaning is quite different, but takes less time to say I suppose.

[Philboid Studge]

I'm bothered by something I'm sure most of you have no problem with; I see no reason for all these "thank you"s and "your welcome"s. Really, does it matter if someone, especially a random stranger, says that they appreciate you holding a door? They probably do, whether or not they say it. So what if they don't appreciate it, you helped them.

Also, has anyone else noticed how people no longer say "No, thanks" but instead "No thanks".
The meaning is quite different, but takes less time to say I suppose.
Thank you for your input.

[oliverwxyz]

I'm bothered by something I'm sure most of you have no problem with; I see no reason for all these "thank you"s and "your welcome"s. Really, does it matter if someone, especially a random stranger, says that they appreciate you holding a door? They probably do, whether or not they say it. So what if they don't appreciate it, you helped them.

Also, has anyone else noticed how people no longer say "No, thanks" but instead "No thanks".
The meaning is quite different, but takes less time to say I suppose.
um, no it doesn;t really bother me to be honest! I guess showing appreciation is just being polite isn't it? You do something, the person acknowledges it in some way, you feel appreciated, no? You can't read their mind can u?
If they ignore you, you think they are an ungrateful git.. It's like if you are polite to another motorist on the road - letting them into the traffic or waiting for them in a narrow spot etc.. you like to get a wave to acknowledge what you did.

I also can't say I've lost much sleep over the 'no thanks' thing either lol. I haven't noticed it's changed. You mean 'no thanks' actually means an absence of thanks, as opposed to 'no - but thanks anyway' ??

I agree more with the point about saying 'please' a lot. I think English speakers are noted for this - like other languages might have the equivalent but don't say it as much. Having said that we are also noted for saying thanks a lot. eg in shops a French person would be more likely just to ask for what they want and buy it without a huge amount of 's'il vous plait' and 'merci's. I suppose saying 'please' is meant to cushion the request a bit, to make it less of an 'order'. I guess it originally meant 'if it please you'

Oliver

[oliverwxyz]

I actually appreciate Wotensday and Thorsday. I like the Nordic pantheon.
Yeah, me too. They're more fun than JC aren;t they?

[oliverwxyz]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, it's interesting where the whole taboo against 'swear words' comes from - in that originally it meant swearing by god's name, as in 'by god's blood', 'by god's body', (supposedly 'bloody' originally meant 'by our lady', but that could be a myth maybe) etc. Might come from a bit in the New Test where JC says don't swear on anything, just let your yes be yes and your no be no - ie tell the simple truth (which also makes a mockery of the concept of swearing on the Bible in court). But swearing has come to mean using any 'bad' language.

Also it's interesting how our 'swear words' show our taboos and hang-ups, like stuff about sex or having a shit etc. Funny how simple Anglo-Saxon words referring in a direct manner to these activities have become taboo and we tend to use eupemisms instead.

Oliver

[TheSnake]

I don't understand swear words anyway. People are afraid of a word. A WORD! It isn't any differant from any other word, so why are people afraid of it?
If you say things like 'goddamnit' or 'jesus christ', you're invoking the name of God in vain, and you'll invite the wrath of God upon you. As you know, God is rather indiscriminate when dispensing His displeasure, so people near you will end up suffering as well. If you use words like 'hell', 'satan' or 'devil', you'll call the Prince of Darkness into your house and that's a bad thing too. (You've all seen how Ozzy tends to make a mess of his own house in his reality-tv show, imagine him in yours.)

Just like the word please- why the hell do we need to say 'please?' How does that make something more polite?
This is a curious thing. We've got nothing like that in Finnish and I've always though it's a bit strange to say please or sil-vous-plait (en français) to, say, a waiter in a restaurant. I really couldn't care less if they're pleased or not, I'm the one who's paying for the service.

[oliverwxyz]

This is a curious thing. We've got nothing like that in Finnish and I've always though it's a bit strange to say please or sil-vous-plait (en français) to, say, a waiter in a restaurant. I really couldn't care less if they're pleased or not, I'm the one who's paying for the service.
Ha ha. I agree, it is a bit odd.

Oliver

[Kamikaze189]

I'm bothered by something I'm sure most of you have no problem with; I see no reason for all these "thank you"s and "your welcome"s. Really, does it matter if someone, especially a random stranger, says that they appreciate you holding a door? They probably do, whether or not they say it. So what if they don't appreciate it, you helped them.

Also, has anyone else noticed how people no longer say "No, thanks" but instead "No thanks".
The meaning is quite different, but takes less time to say I suppose.
um, no it doesn;t really bother me to be honest! I guess showing appreciation is just being polite isn't it? You do something, the person acknowledges it in some way, you feel appreciated, no? You can't read their mind can u?
If they ignore you, you think they are an ungrateful git.. It's like if you are polite to another motorist on the road - letting them into the traffic or waiting for them in a narrow spot etc.. you like to get a wave to acknowledge what you did.

I also can't say I've lost much sleep over the 'no thanks' thing either lol. I haven't noticed it's changed. You mean 'no thanks' actually means an absence of thanks, as opposed to 'no - but thanks anyway' ??

I agree more with the point about saying 'please' a lot. I think English speakers are noted for this - like other languages might have the equivalent but don't say it as much. Having said that we are also noted for saying thanks a lot. eg in shops a French person would be more likely just to ask for what they want and buy it without a huge amount of 's'il vous plait' and 'merci's. I suppose saying 'please' is meant to cushion the request a bit, to make it less of an 'order'. I guess it originally meant 'if it please you'

Oliver
I feel appreciated whether or not they realize what I did benifited them a bit. There's no mind reading involved, it shouldn't matter.

And I just realized I barely read the first post and seem to have started to highjack this thread... so... here's an html tag for you [/threadhighjacking]

[alaspooryorick]

"Oh, God." "For Christ's sake." "Jesus Christ." "Goddammit." "For heaven's sake." "Mother of God." "Oh, good Lord." "God almighty."

All very religious "curses," and I use plenty of them, even though they don't really "mean" anything to me. It's like the French expression "sacre bleu" or our less "holy cow." They don't really mean anything to anyone, especially in modern times, but has just become a form of expressing our frustration rather than saying "I'm frustrated" or "this is ridiculous." Back in the earlier days, "dodging the curse" was used much more frequently (egad, swounds, doggoneit, etc.), but in our more sacreligious culture it's not as big of a deal.

As discussed in a previous thread, I don't say "God bless you" or "bless you" when people sneeze, because I feel that's one formality that's completely outdated. Perhaps I'll start saying, "want a cookie?"

[oliverwxyz]

"Oh, God." "For Christ's sake." "Jesus Christ." "Goddammit." "For heaven's sake." "Mother of God." "Oh, good Lord." "God almighty."

All very religious "curses," and I use plenty of them, even though they don't really "mean" anything to me. It's like the French expression "sacre bleu" or our less "holy cow." They don't really mean anything to anyone, especially in modern times, but has just become a form of expressing our frustration rather than saying "I'm frustrated" or "this is ridiculous." Back in the earlier days, "dodging the curse" was used much more frequently (egad, swounds, doggoneit, etc.), but in our more sacreligious culture it's not as big of a deal.

As discussed in a previous thread, I don't say "God bless you" or "bless you" when people sneeze, because I feel that's one formality that's completely outdated. Perhaps I'll start saying, "want a cookie?"
LOL, no I've never said 'bless you' when people sneeze. Sounds silly to me.

Good point about the 'dodging the curse' - gosh, oh heck etc

[Wiredrawn]

"Oh, God." "For Christ's sake." "Jesus Christ." "Goddammit." "For heaven's sake." "Mother of God." "Oh, good Lord." "God almighty."

All very religious "curses," and I use plenty of them, even though they don't really "mean" anything to me. It's like the French expression "sacre bleu" or our less "holy cow." They don't really mean anything to anyone, especially in modern times, but has just become a form of expressing our frustration rather than saying "I'm frustrated" or "this is ridiculous." Back in the earlier days, "dodging the curse" was used much more frequently (egad, swounds, doggoneit, etc.), but in our more sacreligious culture it's not as big of a deal.

As discussed in a previous thread, I don't say "God bless you" or "bless you" when people sneeze, because I feel that's one formality that's completely outdated. Perhaps I'll start saying, "want a cookie?"
LOL, no I've never said 'bless you' when people sneeze. Sounds silly to me.

Good point about the 'dodging the curse' - gosh, oh heck etc
Oh I hate the whole "God bless you" thing, I always answer with something sarcastic but when someone else sneezes, i feel rude for not saying it. :/ That cookie thing is not a bad idea.

[Tenspace]

I usually follow a sneeze with, "Your sould didn't just escape, did it? If it did, I'll bless it, but if you have an itchy nose, then we're all safe."

Or something like that. :)

Hate: Dag Nabbit, Dag Burnit, Dog Nabbit, Dad Gummit, and all other variations of God Damnit.
Love: Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, Christ On A Stick!, Shut The Fuck Up.

Tenspace <-- edit: still learning to spell my name. :)

[God, my arse]

I say, ironically, "Oh god, Christians"