When a woman marries -should she take her husband's last name

[MrsMoe]

Why should the woman give up HER identity?

Why can't the HUSBAND take the WOMAN's last name?

Tradition? It was is also tradition for the wifey to stay at home and bake cookies and birth lots of babies and for dear hubby to make all the household rules and for dear wifey to be in subjection to her husband. It was also tradition for women to not hold political office or even vote or have other rights.

In my previous marriage I took both names. This marriage I haven't changed my name yet, not sure if I will or not. It seems to be an awefully big hastle when in fact I actually LIKE my name - it's me... it's part of me and who I am.

Taking on a husband's lastname however denotes ownership.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

Whenever I see a guy take on his wifes surname as part of his new name I think of him as being a wimp.
I think it is a matter of what you two as a couple want. I think whoever feels more strongly about you taking or not taking his last name should win out.
That being said, since you've been married before, you might be looking at this marriage as being temporary, thus the hesitation.
Lets assume your marriage lasts 40 years or more. Now what name do you want?

[Tenspace]

As long as my woman fetches me my turkey pot pie she can use whatever the hell name she wants........
Beat me to it. :D

Ten

[Reverend Blasphemy]

As long as my woman fetches me my turkey pot pie she can use whatever the hell name she wants........
Teabag, you're not intimating that a woman's place is in the kitchen! After all, women belong in the laundry room as well!:lol:

[GodlessHeathen]

Whenever I see a guy take on his wifes surname as part of his new name I think of him as being a wimp.
I'm going to assume you're being facetious.

Why can't the HUSBAND take the WOMAN's last name?
I almost did this. NOT because I'm a wimp, but because my last name is substantially more difficult to spell and pronounce than my wife's maiden name. Both her parents and my parents objected, so we relented, and we both have a difficult to spell and pronounce last name.

[snap crafter]

Yes. Yes the woman should take on the man's last name.

Why you ask? Why not. What's the big deal, your an item now, a couple, one entity, the name shouldn't matter. The only people who bring this subject up as a big deal are feminists that are reaching for 'male tyranny'.

Here's an idea, make up a completely new name, say take a name suggested by a third (unbiased) party, that should take away any ego trip attributed to the name change.

[snap crafter]

As long as my woman fetches me my turkey pot pie she can use whatever the hell name she wants........
Teabag, you're not intimating that a woman's place is in the kitchen! After all, women belong in the laundry room as well!:lol:
I prefer my men and women in the bedroom :D

[MrsMoe]

Yes. Yes the woman should take on the man's last name.

Why you ask? Why not. What's the big deal, your an item now, a couple, one entity, the name shouldn't matter. The only people who bring this subject up as a big deal are feminists that are reaching for 'male tyranny'.

Here's an idea, make up a completely new name, say take a name suggested by a third (unbiased) party, that should take away any ego trip attributed to the name change.
Oh - taking a husband's last name DOES denote ownership.

Take a look at history.

Throught history - a husband/father was considered the owner of his family (wife and children) hence taking on the father's last name. When a daughter was "given" in marriage - usually for a bride price - the daughter became property of her new husband and took on his name - reflecting change in ownership.


Like it or not, that is a historical fact.

[Jennifer]

For every couple that marries, there is a better than even chance that things won't work out and the last thing you need in a moment of marital crisis is to have to announce to those around you - coworkers, bankers, people at the market - that you screwed up.


WOMEN, KEEP YOUR NAME!

[ghoulslime]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


Now get in the kitchen, bitch, and bake me some pie!

[ghoulslime]

For every couple that marries, there is a better than even chance that things won't work out and the last thing you need in a moment of marital crisis is to have to announce to those around you - coworkers, bankers, people at the market - that you screwed up.


WOMEN, KEEP YOUR NAME!
Jennifer, keep your name!

Just lose the pants, will you?!

[Tenspace]

Yes. Yes the woman should take on the man's last name.

Why you ask? Why not. What's the big deal, your an item now, a couple, one entity, the name shouldn't matter. The only people who bring this subject up as a big deal are feminists that are reaching for 'male tyranny'.

Here's an idea, make up a completely new name, say take a name suggested by a third (unbiased) party, that should take away any ego trip attributed to the name change.
The new name should be a patterned combination of the two parent names. Just like the kid's genes. :D

[Eva]

i asked my partner to take my name....he refused.
so we are not married. same difference.

however, here it is not like in the taliban states of america, so even if we did get married i do not have to take his name.......

ladies, keep your names if that is what you want.

[Choobus]

All married women have the same name: "her indoors"

as in "sorry mate, I can't have another pint because her indoors will get the right hump if I come home drunk"

[Crackerus Dadderus]

If it's such a big deal - find a man that doesn't care.

While I agree about it formerly being used to denote ownership, things throughout history change from what they were, and I belive this is one of them. I believe it's still in practice today due to its change from denoting ownership to denoting the male dominance of the culture/family/whatever, and is in the process of changing for those who still do it simply to reflect an ease of combination of two to one. My ex-wife taking my name had nothing to do with my ownership of her or her submission to my dominance. She didn't care for her family name and I'm the second generation of mine - so it worked out great for us.

I have to add that any man that takes a woman's name should donate his testicles to someone that can use them.

[MrsMoe]

I have to add that any man that takes a woman's name should donate his testicles to someone that can use them.
My point has been proven.



Women still have a very long ways to go before we are truly treated as equal to the male part of our species.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

It isn't just about the wife taking the name. It is also about the children. Also it is just childish to break tradition in a sense. Most women have the last name of their father. If you want to really break tradition and make a point, why not take the name of the earliest traceable female on your mothers side.
The more I think about it, the more I think that a woman keepiing her name in marriage is a supreme act of selfishness and childishness.

[ghoulslime]

Whenever I see a guy take on his wifes surname as part of his new name I think of him as being a wimp.
I'm going to assume you're being facetious.
I am going to assume you are a wimp. :D

[ghoulslime]

I have to add that any man that takes a woman's name should donate his testicles to someone that can use them.
My point has been proven.



Women still have a very long ways to go before we are truly treated as equal to the male part of our species.
We have along way to go before women ARE equal to the male of the species. :/

[WITHTEETH]

Why does the woman take the husbands name? because shes missing a x chromosone. I don't trust anything that bleeds for 7 days, and doesn't die. You aren't equal till you grow a penis.

Just kidding, but pathetically this is the kind of crap people really beleive. Its fun to joke about the opposite sex as long as eachone doesn't impose on the other. this kind of prejudice reminds me of racism in the US. Many people just want black people to shut the fuck up, but If you don't squeek, you wont get fixed. Also being an individual is very important and shes right, giving up your identity is following conformity. Somethings aren't important enough to fight but if this is then go for it ladies. I've got your backside!

[HMS Beagle]

If it's such a big deal - find a man that doesn't care.
Since I moved to New York, I don't think I've met a single man-- or woman-- who objects to a bride keeping her surname. In fact, most men I know admire women who proudly claim their own histories and identities.

As for children: divorce being what it is, dealing with different parental/step-parental surnames is hardly an issue.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

Keeping the maiden name is the act of choosing your dad's name over your husbands name. I don't think I could marry a woman who picks her father over me.

[HMS Beagle]

It is just childish to break tradition in a sense.
So they have kosher bacon now for tradition-honoring atheistjews?

[whoneedscience]

The only thing I have to add, growing up in a liberal area where parents commonly have different last names, is that the real problem is how you name your kids. There's nothing worse than for a kid to start kindergarten with an over-hyphenated name because his or her parents couldn't agree on which of their terrible names to keep.

Ladies, keep your last names if you genuinely want to, not because you want to rebel against evil, male-dominated society. And for nonexistent christ's sake, don't mess with your kid's names for the same reasons.

[Kamikaze189]

I don't see what the fuss is about. Women are basically equal today, with some exceptions.

When you flipout over a name change, for a man you love even, I think you might just be paranoid. Plus, if you're going to marry the guy, you should probably know whether or not he thinks you're his property. I bet if you asked him he'd just laugh at you.

Still, I don't care whether you change your name or not. It's just not important.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

It is just childish to break tradition in a sense.
So they have kosher bacon now for tradition-honoring atheistjews?
I would have to say that over 50% of Jews eat bacon. The Western world I live in has many religions and practices. But the Western culture revolves around a woman taking the man's surname after marriage.
Any guy who goes for the hyphen or marries a woman who keeps her name is a spineless wimp. That is not me.

[HMS Beagle]

It is just childish to break tradition in a sense.
So they have kosher bacon now for tradition-honoring atheistjews?
I would have to say that over 50% of Jews eat bacon.
That's a nice round number, 50%. Thanks for sourcing it. I stand corrected. Bacon is the new tradition in Judaism.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

About 25-30% of Jews practice a kosher diet to some extent, usually meaning a refrain from eating shellfish, pork and pork by-products. But the vast extent of Kashrut -- Jewish food laws -- concerns the treatment and preparation of food.

http://www.stinkzone.com/semination/holy_food.html

Sorry I was wrong about the 50% number.

[MrsMoe]

It isn't just about the wife taking the name. It is also about the children. Also it is just childish to break tradition in a sense. Most women have the last name of their father. If you want to really break tradition and make a point, why not take the name of the earliest traceable female on your mothers side.
The more I think about it, the more I think that a woman keepiing her name in marriage is a supreme act of selfishness and childishness.
ROFL!!!!! And why can't the children take on the wife's name? It is YOUR attitude that is selfish.

Keeping the maiden name is the act of choosing your dad's name over your husbands name. I don't think I could marry a woman who picks her father over me.
And I couldnt' marry a man who would pick HIS father's name over MINE. Why not choose my name? Not "masculine" enough for you?

All my life I have been Amanda Bxxxx. Amanda Bxxxxx is on letters, business cards, SSAT scores, awards and so on... It's my name, part of me and part of my identity. I have never been known as Amanda Papxxxxxxx and it's not a natural fit.

Now, while I agree fully that whatever names married partners pick is solely up to them, it's something that is rarely thought about or discussed. When I got engaged to Tim for example - everyone at work wanted to know what my new last name was going to be - everyone ASSUMED that I was going ot take his last name. Not once did anybody think that I would either keep my name or hyphenate it.

[MrsMoe]

Why does the woman take the husbands name? because shes missing a x chromosone. I don't trust anything that bleeds for 7 days, and doesn't die. You aren't equal till you grow a penis.

Just kidding, but pathetically this is the kind of crap people really beleive. Its fun to joke about the opposite sex as long as eachone doesn't impose on the other. this kind of prejudice reminds me of racism in the US. Many people just want black people to shut the fuck up, but If you don't squeek, you wont get fixed. Also being an individual is very important and shes right, giving up your identity is following conformity. Somethings aren't important enough to fight but if this is then go for it ladies. I've got your backside!
I totally agree with your comments regarding blacks speaking out as to their treatment.

A lot of people want blacks to shut the fuck up also, but all the squeaking by the black population has created awareness as to how they wanted treated. They squeak about issues that are important to them, and it is not up to anyone to belittle their feelings or their rights to feel equal to the rest of humanity. Same said for women's rights. Maybe I could go as far as to say that males shouldn't even have a say... same as I don't have a say as to how blacks wish to be treated because I ain't black.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

Like I said. Some women insist on the hyphen or keeping their fathers surname. I think that those women have a certain personality type that might be very compatable to a percentage of males out there, but I'm pretty sure that I am not attracted to that type, and they are not attracted to me.

Pap? Sounds Greek. I don't know too many Greek families that are attracted to females that want to keep their last names :)

[MrsMoe]

Like I said. Some women insist on the hyphen or keeping their fathers surname. I think that those women have a certain personality type that might be very compatable to a percentage of males out there, but I'm pretty sure that I am not attracted to that type, and they are not attracted to me.

Pap? Sounds Greek. I don't know too many Greek families that are attracted to females that want to keep their last names :)
Your sexist world astounds me. And now your cultural predjudices are comming out. Yes, my husband is Greek. does this mean he cannot think progressively instead of clinging to a cultural past that demans women?

You live in the dinosaur age BEAJ. Bigtime. And I think you do not even realize it. Maybe it's time you took a look at yourself and your views and became aware you are a bit of a bigot. A bigot btw is a person "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices."

[baconeatingatheistjew]

I never said I wasn't a chauvenist. Nobody is perfect.

That aside, is your husband and his family cool with you not taking his last name. That is all that matters.

[MrsMoe]

I never said I wasn't a chauvenist. Nobody is perfect.
Either you are proud and happy to be this way or you are ashamed. I would hope it is the latter. Your bigoted attitude is something that you have the power to change, as well as the power to ignore. The ball is in your court.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

I am happy with my chauvenistic outlook. I see lots of hypocrisy when it comes to women wanting equal status.

[Jennifer]

For every couple that marries, there is a better than even chance that things won't work out and the last thing you need in a moment of marital crisis is to have to announce to those around you - coworkers, bankers, people at the market - that you screwed up.


WOMEN, KEEP YOUR NAME!
Jennifer, keep your name!

Just lose the pants, will you?!
:rolleyes::)

[Jennifer]

I never said I wasn't a chauvenist. Nobody is perfect.
Either you are proud and happy to be this way or you are ashamed. I would hope it is the latter. Your bigoted attitude is something that you have the power to change, as well as the power to ignore. The ball is in your court.
MrsMoe, you will never win this. Its to the bone.

[MrsMoe]

I never said I wasn't a chauvenist. Nobody is perfect.
Either you are proud and happy to be this way or you are ashamed. I would hope it is the latter. Your bigoted attitude is something that you have the power to change, as well as the power to ignore. The ball is in your court.
MrsMoe, you will never win this. Its to the bone.
What a sad little person. Wish the site had an ignore feature, you know?

[Rhinoqulous]

A friend of mine got married recently, and she took her husbands last name because it was "cooler" than hers. I think that's how it should be; whoever has the cooler last name wins.

[HMS Beagle]

If you don't like your name, why bother getting married? True story: my friend Carol Lepper got fed up with the jokes so she changed her name to Carol Christian.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

If you don't like your name, why bother getting married? True story: my friend Carol Lepper got fed up with the jokes so she changed her name to Carol Christian.
Excellent point. If a chick wants to keep her name, why get married? The tradition of marriage matters but the tradition of taking the husbands surname doesn't? That sounds hypocritical.

Again, that is why I could never marry someone who even thought about keeping her own name.

[WITHTEETH]

Baconeater, you are too hung up on traditions. Why let it bother you, a good wife is a good wife. Its an obssesive character flaw when you let nonsense like a last name bother you when it hurts nothing. What tradition are you trying to protect? Put down your gun big man, this is the twentith century. No reason to mark your territory whever you go. Why piss on your wife "Happy wife, happy life" right? You could just get a large truck to raise your esteem.

[Striver]

I wouldn't accept it. Any man that puts up with that sort of thing looks like a total wuss. And to think for what? Ladies claim to want equality, then select for men that exhibit dominance. You can't run from nature.

However, I'm sure a "nice guy" would wouldn't mind. He might even give up his name.
:lol:

[HMS Beagle]

About 25-30% of Jews practice a kosher diet to some extent, usually meaning a refrain from eating shellfish, pork and pork by-products. But the vast extent of Kashrut -- Jewish food laws -- concerns the treatment and preparation of food.
So we agree: traditions evolve. Fewer Jews practice a kosher diet; the only things that get hurt are pigs. Some women opt to keep their given surnames; ditto.

[StillSurviving]

I'm keeping my last name. My fiancee is keeping hers. The chidren will take my last name. I don't see anything wrong with it. A name is pretty much a variable until one has come to identify with it. I identify with my last name, she identifies with hers, and our children will hopefully identify with theirs.

[GodlessHeathen]

And it seems disingenuous to claim "tradition" when saying that a woman should take her husband's surname. Religion is a tradition, and most of us here didn't have a problem leaving that behind.

[MrsMoe]

BTW I have my mother's last name... not my father's. And my daughter has my last name. In this pregnancy my husband will likely give our new child his last name because my daughter and I have a different last name, and it owuld make things fair.

[MrsMoe]

If you don't like your name, why bother getting married? True story: my friend Carol Lepper got fed up with the jokes so she changed her name to Carol Christian.
Excellent point. If a chick wants to keep her name, why get married? The tradition of marriage matters but the tradition of taking the husbands surname doesn't? That sounds hypocritical.

Again, that is why I could never marry someone who even thought about keeping her own name.
You are just grasping at straws.

Legal benefits... it's the only reason we got married. Also too, something has to be said about making a legal commitment to your partner.

In the animal kingdom, even some birds mate for life. Marriage is the same concept.

[snap crafter]

It isn't just about the wife taking the name. It is also about the children. Also it is just childish to break tradition in a sense. Most women have the last name of their father. If you want to really break tradition and make a point, why not take the name of the earliest traceable female on your mothers side.
The more I think about it, the more I think that a woman keepiing her name in marriage is a supreme act of selfishness and childishness.
ROFL!!!!! And why can't the children take on the wife's name? It is YOUR attitude that is selfish.

Keeping the maiden name is the act of choosing your dad's name over your husbands name. I don't think I could marry a woman who picks her father over me.
And I couldnt' marry a man who would pick HIS father's name over MINE. Why not choose my name? Not "masculine" enough for you?

All my life I have been Amanda Bxxxx. Amanda Bxxxxx is on letters, business cards, SSAT scores, awards and so on... It's my name, part of me and part of my identity. I have never been known as Amanda Papxxxxxxx and it's not a natural fit.

Now, while I agree fully that whatever names married partners pick is solely up to them, it's something that is rarely thought about or discussed. When I got engaged to Tim for example - everyone at work wanted to know what my new last name was going to be - everyone ASSUMED that I was going ot take his last name. Not once did anybody think that I would either keep my name or hyphenate it.
So, wait, your made because the fact that tradition dictates you take your husbands name lead your coworkers to assume that you would do like everyone else? Are you made when they ask what degree you got if you went to college?

Wait, so you don't wanna loose your last name because that would be sexist, but why should the man takes yours in turn? wouldn't the same rules apply to him? Why does it even matter? It's immature feminism at best.

[Jennifer]

I think it would be more fun if the tradition was that at 18 you picked your own last name. But since it isn't the tradition I think everyone should just keep the name they've been given. Its so fundamental to who you are. The words you've been called since your birth.

[GodlessHeathen]

I think it would be more fun if the tradition was that at 18 you picked your own last name. But since it isn't the tradition I think everyone should just keep the name they've been given. Its so fundamental to who you are. The words you've been called since your birth.
How about picking your whole name? I would pick "Max Power".

[Crackerus Dadderus]

MrsMoe
With all you're saying, why not both just pick a new name - why have to choose one of the old? (If you already said that - my bad). You're crying about how your name is important to you - fine, you've obviously worked it out with your husband. What's the big deal? You're upset that the majority of people you know expected you to do the customary thing, why? You expect everyone to come to the same realizations as you and by that give up their CHOICE to change names or not? You make it sound like this is a woman's rights issue when in reality it is nowhere close.
I don't want to hear anything about equality either. Before I say any more, I know there are women out there that can outperform me on many things - and I'm FINE with that. I will gladly treat everyone equally. But during my time in the Marine Corps, it gets a little old to hear how women are treated poorly, but yet they kept DEMANDING exceptions. Different standards for everything - and they got promoted easier. Until the majority of the women I meet agree to be measured by the same stick before spouting off at the mouth about equality - I have no sympathy. You also didn't mention the women that get more breaks because of men being scared of being called sexist.
Don't mistake this as me saying women shouldn't be treated equally - they should. You may very well be one of the many women that ensure they are measured by the same stick - but too often the women I meet do not. And for those worthless bitches - I wish them the worst. I wish the worst for man or woman that preach about principles but don't say shit when the rules are bent for them.

What are you views on career women having children and their expectations about their job?

My last statement in the last post was a joke.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

Why do I get the feeling that Mrs. Moe demands that her husband keep the toilet seat up after he uses it.

I never understood that. I want my wife to leave the toilet seat up after she uses it, but I never make it a point in telling her.

[Jennifer]

I have a friend that tried to get her husband to sit down so that the bathroom would stay cleaner. He refused.

[Jennifer]

How about picking your whole name? I would pick "Max Power".
In the town where I grew up there was a woman named Fonda Dicks. I'm guessing that was her choice.

[ghoulslime]

Why do I get the feeling that Mrs. Moe demands that her husband keep the toilet seat up after he uses it.

I never understood that. I want my wife to leave the toilet seat up after she uses it, but I never make it a point in telling her.
Toilet seat up, toilet seat down, I just point my dick in the general direction and piss away! :D

[ghoulslime]

How about picking your whole name? I would pick "Max Power".
In the town where I grew up there was a woman named Fonda Dicks. I'm guessing that was her choice.
What are you fond of? :D

P.S. Can you change your avatar please? That one makes me want to chew my leg off. I mean I have to have a goddamn cold shower every time I read one of your posts! :o

[schemanista]

A friend of mine got married recently, and she took her husbands last name because it was "cooler" than hers. I think that's how it should be; whoever has the cooler last name wins.
My daughter has my last name as her first name and has my living-in-sin partner's last name as her last name.

Her full name sounds cooler than each of our separate last names, IMO.

[Jennifer]

P.S. Can you change your avatar please?
Your wish is my comand


Her full name sounds cooler than each of our separate last names, IMO.
Is it weird calling your kid by your own last name?

[schemanista]

Is it weird calling your kid by your own last name?
Nope. I had nine months to get used to the idea. And now that she's two, she kind of inhabits it so that I can't think of her as anyone but Keelan.

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

I, for one, like the idea of everyone in the family having the same last name. I don't know why, it just seems to fit. I don't really care if the woman takes the man's name, or the man takes the woman's name, or if they hyphenate their names, or if they make up a new name, or whatever. The woman taking the man's name is traditional, but if the man has a dumb last name (like Buttz or Imadumbfuck), then I can see why he'd want to change it.

However, if you're at all worried about the marriage falling apart, there are certain advantages to the woman keeping her name. Less paperwork and hassle, for one. Well, actually that's the only reason I can see for the woman to keep her last name, but it's a pretty big reason.

Perhaps it'd be best for the woman to keep her name at first, and to change it only after 60 years of marriage when there's pretty much no way in hell they'd ever get a divorce?

[schemanista]

I, for one, like the idea of everyone in the family having the same last name. I don't know why, it just seems to fit. I don't really care if the woman takes the man's name, or the man takes the woman's name, or if they hyphenate their names, or if they make up a new name, or whatever. The woman taking the man's name is traditional, but if the man has a dumb last name (like Buttz or Imadumbfuck), then I can see why he'd want to change it.
My mother, within a traditional Italian cultural framework tried this on me. She also did the whole "what would other people think?" I pointed out that my daughter would be attending public school in a highly multicultural area, with people from different ethnic and religious backgrounds, children of divorced parents, same-sex parents, single mothers... if my daughter was going to stand out, it would be for entirely different reasons.

[baconeatingatheistjew]

My wife forgets my first name a lot lately and calls me asshole instead .

That was probably one her old boyfriends names. I should ask her if he was as intelligent and good looking as me.

[God, my arse]

They could keep their own names seperately or hyphenate it, or if you hate your Dad like I do take hers, but I don't want to get married so I don't have to worry about it newayz... lol

[MrsMoe]

MrsMoe
With all you're saying, why not both just pick a new name - why have to choose one of the old?
I don't want to because I am Amanda Bxxxxxx and it's my identity.

[Evil_Mage_Ra]

I am Amanda Bxxxxxx
How do you pronounce that? :D

[rebelscum]

In Iceland everyone's "last name" is soandso"son" or soandso"daughter" ( well in Icelandic).

But everyone is known by their first name. I suppose this worked when there were 30,000 people on the whole island but it's confusing as hell now. All this provides interesting camoflage of sorts - though it's not really needed. No stigma on out of wedlock births, but then you'd never figure it out from the names anyway.

Cultural habits.....no big deal. Most women I know who tried the combined approach gave up since people (and motor vehicles) got confused. One family here has one kid with father's last name, another with mother's. Everyone thought they were remarried with step kids for five years or so.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

First; The idea of equality between sexes has more to do with rights than sameness. Men and women should have equal rights but, generally speaking, they have different abilities in different areas. Men are generally better at some things and women are generally better at others -- but there are always exceptions. To qualify for some job or position, for example, whoever is best at it should get it, regardless of sex. By the same token, allowances or exceptions in ability requirements for a position because of sex should not be made.

Second; Changing names or not - or what names the children should have - is obviously a problematic issue without a good solution. Just think of how difficult it would become to trace family lines back through several generations when applied to any of the solutions offered so far; picking new names each generation, picking the name that sounds best, randomly choosing one side or the other, or hyphenating names (go through that for a few generations and the last names would just keep growing and which order would they have?).

Here's my idea on that. Everybody keeps their name when they get married and male children are named after their father, female children named after their mother. Women could always trace their line through their mothers and men through their fathers. Of course, people should always do whatever they want.

Third; Maybe the idea of marriage is becoming just as old fashioned as women taking their husband's name. I think it is being increasingly demonstrated that the nature of most humans is to engage in a series of monogamous relationships (with some having occasional flings depending on their desire and ability to do so).

Finally, Note: even the names we have for each other ("men" "women" "male" "female" "he" "she") might be viewed as sexist towards women. Maybe we should think of something new for each like; sperms and eggs, cocks and cunts, testees and estees....???

[alaspooryorick]

Of course, it's a loaded choice, if you choose to look at it that way. If it genuinely bothers you, then no, there's no reason why you should have to change it. If the man wants to take the wife's name, that's fine too, it's just a name. I still say "Jesus Christ" even though I am not religious, and if I were ever to marry, I don't think changing my last name would particularly bother me. Cultural things that have just become "normalized" over the years. I don't advocate the whole "little wifey" thing, but I also don't think changing a name means you automatically step into that role.

After all, isn't it just as weird that you can no longer be Miss, but have to become Mrs when you marry?

[ocmpoma]

P.S. Can you change your avatar please?Your wish is my comand

Thanks a lot, ghoul. Now I have to back to sexyavatars.com to get my fix.

[Jennifer]

P.S. Can you change your avatar please?Your wish is my comand

Thanks a lot, ghoul. Now I have to back to sexyavatars.com to get my fix.
ocmpoma, I've aged in your absence. I'm your mother now.

[Jennifer]

Teabag, you had a post here that I was waiting for the end of the work day to respond to and now its missing. But anyway, you could always save on paperwork and call out your own name.

We need a new rule. No deleting posts. Correcting spelling is fine. Fixing an url is good, but no deleting.

[ghoulslime]

P.S. Can you change your avatar please?Your wish is my comand

Thanks a lot, ghoul. Now I have to back to sexyavatars.com to get my fix.
Sorry, dude. It's just that my monitor was starting to develop a dent where I keep rubbing my balls against her avatar.

[ghoulslime]

Teabag, you had a post here that I was waiting for the end of the work day to respond to and now its missing. But anyway, you could always save on paperwork and call out your own name.

We need a new rule. No deleting posts. Correcting spelling is fine. Fixing an url is good, but no deleting.
I think Teabag has been learning some lessons from Shiloh. :D You are very bad, Teabag, very, very bad! :mad:

[Wiredrawn]

Here's my idea on that. Everybody keeps their name when they get married and male children are named after their father, female children named after their mother. Women could always trace their line through their mothers and men through their fathers. Of course, people should always do whatever they want.
that could actually work :|





btw: who else has the urge to crucify the baconeatingjew? :cool:

[Jennifer]

Hey, I can take as much abuse as the next pervert, but comparing me to Shiloh is crossing the fucking line. If I did delete a post I was probably drunk and accept no responsibility. I certainly would not deliberately delete any of my posts because that would be grossly unfair to the rest of humanity whom, I know, has come to depend on my wisdom. You can compare me to Shiloh's mum is you wish, but that's it.
Your post said that "we should call them all BaitchSSN so that we didn't mess up when we called out there name during sex." And I did a slow burn at work, waiting to answer. When I got back on the post was gone.

[miata]

Of course, it's a loaded choice, if you choose to look at it that way. If it genuinely bothers you, then no, there's no reason why you should have to change it. If the man wants to take the wife's name, that's fine too, it's just a name. I still say "Jesus Christ" even though I am not religious, and if I were ever to marry, I don't think changing my last name would particularly bother me. Cultural things that have just become "normalized" over the years. I don't advocate the whole "little wifey" thing, but I also don't think changing a name means you automatically step into that role.

After all, isn't it just as weird that you can no longer be Miss, but have to become Mrs when you marry?
Thanks for the spell check.
BTW, please help me with my spellinnnnnn, I have a manual computer and some of the keys stick when the ink ribbon gets old.

I lost both arms in Iraq and have to type with my mouth as I am legally blind due to this war. I am not able to use voice commands as I also lost my voice. I can speak but not loud or clear. I hope you'll forgive a few words here and there or perhaps we could trade places you be me and I'll be the snob for one day. I am not bitter and I hope you understand I was perfect like you 18 month ago.

Last edited by miata (Today 10:17 pm)

[Jennifer]

A good idea is a good idea. I didn't mean to delete it, and will happily take the credit for such a visionary plan
And so, under that plan men would be.....

[Another brick in the wall]

I think we should get rid of the he/she thing. There should be one pronoun for third person and there should be one title of polite address like -san in Japanese.

[miata]

Of course, it's a loaded choice, if you choose to look at it that way. If it genuinely bothers you, then no, there's no reason why you should have to change it. If the man wants to take the wife's name, that's fine too, it's just a name. I still say "Jesus Christ" even though I am not religious, and if I were ever to marry, I don't think changing my last name would particularly bother me. Cultural things that have just become "normalized" over the years. I don't advocate the whole "little wifey" thing, but I also don't think changing a name means you automatically step into that role.

After all, isn't it just as weird that you can no longer be Miss, but have to become Mrs when you marry?
Thanks for the spell check.
BTW, please help me with my spellinnnnnn, I have a manual computer and some of the keys stick when the ink ribbon gets old.

I lost both arms in Iraq and have to type with my mouth as I am legally blind due to this war. I am not able to use voice commands as I also lost my voice. I can speak but not loud or clear. I hope you'll forgive a few words here and there or perhaps we could trade places you be me and I'll be the snob for one day. I am not bitter and I hope you understand I was perfect like you 18 month ago.

[Tenspace]

Thanks for the spell check.

BTW, please help me with my spellinnnnnn, I have a manual computer and some of the keys stick when the ink ribbon gets old.
That would explain the whiteout on your posts. Dude, you need to upgrade. ;)

I lost both arms in Iraq and have to type with my mouth as I am legally blind due to this war. I am not able to use voice commands as I also lost my voice. I can speak but not loud or clear. I hope you'll forgive a few words here and there or perhaps we could trade places you be me and I'll be the snob for one day. I am not bitter and I hope you understand I was perfect like you 18 month ago.
That sucks, so bad. I remember when you mentioned that earler. You were an Army Chaplain, right? Nothing like being God's ragdoll to make you feel spiritual, eh? :P I spent a time being the poster on God's dartboard. Fucker comes around again, I'll slice his Achilles heels. Wait, would God, the original image for Man, have a body part named after a greek god? Hmm.... :)

Take care... David

[AGENT-ADAIR]

Women are like cars.

[alaspooryorick]

Miata, it's totally awesome that you have hunted down my posts on other threads to bring up the spelling fight again.
I'd feel bad making someone with no arms type any more posts directed at me, so you can wallow in self misery in peace.

[Jennifer]

Women are like cars.
That's it?

[Choobus]

fat women are like russian cars: fun to ride until your mates see you, then you need an exit strategy

[whoneedscience]

do the russians even make cars?
Of course they do! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4527727.stm)

[miata]

Of course, it's a loaded choice, if you choose to look at it that way. If it genuinely bothers you, then no, there's no reason why you should have to change it. If the man wants to take the wife's name, that's fine too, it's just a name. I still say "Jesus Christ" even though I am not religious, and if I were ever to marry, I don't think changing my last name would particularly bother me. Cultural things that have just become "normalized" over the years. I don't advocate the whole "little wifey" thing, but I also don't think changing a name means you automatically step into that role.

After all, isn't it just as weird that you can no longer be Miss, but have to become Mrs when you marry?
dat ris soe du sweaet.

[HMS Beagle]

Just think of how difficult it would become to trace family lines back through several generations when applied to any of the solutions offered so far; picking new names each generation, picking the name that sounds best, randomly choosing one side or the other, or hyphenating names.
All about to become irrelevant thanks to mitochondrial DNA-- which is going to raise hell with paternity issues, too.

After all, isn't it just as weird that you can no longer be Miss, but have to become Mrs when you marry?
Good bye and good riddance, Alas, but I would have liked to ask you how you managed to learn to use a computer yet never heard the term Ms.

I love language, but this nomenclature stuff is just boring-- and fundamentally ignorant. If Darwin published "The Descent of Man" today, strident feminists would be denouncing him not for his theories but because they feel left out, unaware that "man" is a generic term as well as a gender one. Attempts to get around that graceful fact are awkward at best-- spokesperson, chairperson, even waitperson. (Although I do like being called an editrix...)

[MrsMoe]

Just think of how difficult it would become to trace family lines back through several generations when applied to any of the solutions offered so far; picking new names each generation, picking the name that sounds best, randomly choosing one side or the other, or hyphenating names.
Why would it be any harder to trace family history through a mother's name vs a father's?

[JP]

Why even get married if you are so worried about independence?

Pesonally, I wouldn't marry a woman who didn't want my last name. Of course she is free to not take it, just as I am free not to marry her. To me it really is a turn off if she didn't want it. I would feel slighted, like she didn't want me or didn't want to be associated with me and I would move on.

I don't buy the professional arguement either. Is your name trademarked? Are you Sharon Stone? I doubt it; most people will know your new name within a week, no big deal. If she can't put the family ahead of her career, why would I want to marry her. Sure, like someone has said, maybe it is arbitrary, but so is driving on the right side of the road.

If she had no problem following the tradition of getting a ring, wearing a white dress (when we all know better), ceremony, honeymoon, etc. but this ONE tradition is just too much? Hogwash!

Your husband does own you, just like you own him, and if you don't like that idea, then you dont need to get married. You belong to each other, what is the problem with this if you are in love with him? Is it such a bad thing to be associated with him?

This is just modern femenism trying to find something to fight about in between carpet munching. :)

[Jennifer]

If she can't put the family ahead of her career, why would I want to marry her.
Well, would you be making a similar public sacrafice. I mean, if its ok for her then its ok for your right? You also, of course, would be placing family first, right?

[JP]

Yes. But the simple fact is it's not done that way. It's tantamount to making everyone drive on the left side of the road simply because she doesn't want to drive on the right.

As for me, and many other men, we perceive ourselves to be "giving" our family name to their wife at marriage. To them, it is a gift that represents the creation of their own new family, and their promises to that particular woman and the children they may have together. I give her my name out of a symbol of love and commitment, not to dominate or rule over her.

In my view, the woman who doesn't take her husband's name is refusing that gift in order to make a point, not to show love. Her refusal is a symbol that she doesn't completely give herself to me, that she is holding something back, and resents that fact that she is part of me, and I her.

If in our culture it was tradition for the man to give up his name, then I would gladly do so; but it's not. If I were to take her name, I wouldn’t actually be taking her name, but her father's. She wasn't oppressed by her father's name, why should she be with mine?

[kmisho]

Dare I play the unabashed liberal and say it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. It's just a cultural convention, a fashion. When my wife and I got married we just kept our own names. We have decided to give our first child my last name...only because it's normal here. I see nothing wrong with conformity if it's just fashion.

[kmisho]

Oh yeah. Another thing. I don't understand the fascination with tracing family history anyway. It's not like anyone along the way had any choice in the matter. Why would someone be proud of a series of coin tosses?

[Rhinoqulous]

Yes. But the simple fact is it's not done that way. It's tantamount to making everyone drive on the left side of the road simply because she doesn't want to drive on the right.

As for me, and many other men, we perceive ourselves to be "giving" our family name to their wife at marriage. To them, it is a gift that represents the creation of their own new family, and their promises to that particular woman and the children they may have together. I give her my name out of a symbol of love and commitment, not to dominate or rule over her.

In my view, the woman who doesn't take her husband's name is refusing that gift in order to make a point, not to show love. Her refusal is a symbol that she doesn't completely give herself to me, that she is holding something back, and resents that fact that she is part of me, and I her.

If in our culture it was tradition for the man to give up his name, then I would gladly do so; but it's not. If I were to take her name, I wouldn’t actually be taking her name, but her father's. She wasn't oppressed by her father's name, why should she be with mine?
How kind of you to offer the gift of marking a woman as your property.

[JP]

Rhinoqulous,

Go fuck yourself, that's not what I said.

But she IS my property, just like I am HERS. Have you ever looked at the laws regarding marriage? Marriage gives the husband or his family control over the wife's sexual services, labor, and/or property; gives the wife or her family control over the husband's sexual services, labor, and/or property; establishes a joint fund of property for the benefit of children; establishes a relationship between the families of the husband and wife, etc.

If you don't want to belong to someone else, don't fucking get married. Just stand around at the courthouse and both of you talk about how independent your are.

[HMS Beagle]

If I were to take her name, I wouldn’t actually be taking her name, but her father's.
You actually seem to be saying that women aren't entitled to claim their own surnames in our culture-- they are merely entitled to use whatever male they were last legally bound to. I'm glad you admire the choices of women like, say, Elizabeth Taylor Hilton Wilding Todd Fisher Burton Burton Warner Fortensky (who legally changed her name for the first few marriages at least), but it seems to me that she's proof that a name change means nothing.

P.S.: "Thou art thy selfe, though not a Mountague. What's a Mountague? it is nor hand nor foote, nor arme, nor face. That which we call a rose by any other word would smell as sweete."

[Jennifer]

So JP, what I hear you saying is that if women are unwilling to accept a life of servitude then they won’t be aloud to be slaves.

[JP]

For the love of Zorb, where did I ever say that my wife was my slave or that I thought she should be? I am not above her, nor do I want to be.

All I am saying is that in this culture it is generally considered the symbol of a new family which the woman as well as the man become one. Not two independent people who got together to save money on their IPO. In this culture the man gives his name to the woman as a symbol of love and devotion to her. Symbolically they will be part of each other, and in a real sense belong to one another. Some people don't like this idea, fine, this is just what I like.

I'm not saying that women are not entitled to their surnames, and I understand that some women want to keep them. All I am saying is that I would not marry a woman like that do to my own personality conflicts and different interpretations of what that tradition means. It's not that my name makes me more important than her, but that it makes me more important than other men.

By all means, be independent, climb to the tallest tower in the world and fly a banner with your maiden name for all I care, let the world know your no fool. No man is going to dominate you by Zorb. The arrogant pigs, what a brute for wanting you to acknowledge that you are married to him and that he loves you.

[TheSnake]

JP, are you really saying that if you'd meet the love of your life, you wouldn't marry her just because she'd refuse to take your surname?

[Sternwallow]

JP, I am confused. You seem to be saying that the husband and wife own each other (kind of a definition of slavery incidentally) and the husband symbolizes his ownership of his wife by socially branding her with his trademark and that she....does what to socially brand him?

[JP]

I'm saying that a woman who wouldn't take my surname is probably someone that is not my type to begin with.

I am married, fortunately for me that issue never came up, and my wife is a doctor. Had it come up, it would have really bothered me. Like I said it's what I wanted. Would it have been a deal breaker? Dunno. If I had honestly expressed what it meant to me for her to do me the honor of taking my name, and she refused; I probably would have moved on, as it would have just turned me off to her big time.

[JP]

JP, I am confused. You seem to be saying that the husband and wife own each other (kind of a definition of slavery incidentally) and the husband symbolizes his ownership of his wife by socially branding her with his trademark and that she....does what to socially brand him?
God damn it's not slavery, will you people quit being so dramatic.

He doesn't symbolize OWNERSHIP with his name, but that they are a family. Just as her carrying his name and him wearing the wedding ring symbolize that he is hers.

You could also tell that the man is married by the way his wife dresses him.

[Sternwallow]

You could also tell that the man is married by the way his wife dresses him.
At last you have hit on the main killer point that snuffs my entire argument! :)

[MrsMoe]

Why even get married if you are so worried about independence?

Pesonally, I wouldn't marry a woman who didn't want my last name. Of course she is free to not take it, just as I am free not to marry her. To me it really is a turn off if she didn't want it. I would feel slighted, like she didn't want me or didn't want to be associated with me and I would move on.

I don't buy the professional arguement either. Is your name trademarked? Are you Sharon Stone? I doubt it; most people will know your new name within a week, no big deal. If she can't put the family ahead of her career, why would I want to marry her. Sure, like someone has said, maybe it is arbitrary, but so is driving on the right side of the road.

If she had no problem following the tradition of getting a ring, wearing a white dress (when we all know better), ceremony, honeymoon, etc. but this ONE tradition is just too much? Hogwash!

Your husband does own you, just like you own him, and if you don't like that idea, then you dont need to get married. You belong to each other, what is the problem with this if you are in love with him? Is it such a bad thing to be associated with him?

This is just modern femenism trying to find something to fight about in between carpet munching. :)
Carpet munching? Sexist pig? ;)

So it's Ok for you to feel slighted for a woman not taking your name, but can a woman feel slighted if her future husband doesn't take her name?

Why is one ok for males but not females?


I'm saying that a woman who wouldn't take my surname is probably someone that is not my type to begin with.
Why? What "type" of woman is this?







You know, for a free thinking forum, for a group of people aware and intelligent enough to realize that there is no God, you would think they also had enough intelligence to come to an understanding about equal human rights. It seems ignorance abounds in whatever circle you are in. Sad, very very sad.

It so often perplexes me that if I can see it, why can't others? It makes me so frustrated that 99% of the world is so unaware, and so selfish.

The human race is so perplexing to me. why can't people be aware of basic human rights? How do we as a species bridge this gap? How do we as a speicies better ourselves to be soemthing more than an animal of higher intelligence? How do we become Gods ourselves?

[JP]

Mrs. Moe: "So it's Ok for you to feel slighted for a woman not taking your name, but can a woman feel slighted if her future husband doesn't take her name?"
Yes, she can feel slighted, and each relationship is going to be different. But for me, this is what I wanted, if she didn't want it then so be it. I didn't force my wife to marry me at gun point.

I didn't say it was ok for males and not for females, I just said it's not for me.

Mrs. Moe: "Why? What "type" of woman is this?"
I am talking about the type that is overly concerned with being independent and constantly trying to prove to me how much she doesn't need a man. Especially since no one ever implied that she did. She probably pisses and moans when I open the door for her too.

Mrs. Moe: "You know, for a free thinking forum, for a group of people aware and intelligent enough to realize that there is no God, you would think they also had enough intelligence to come to an understanding about equal human rights. It seems ignorance abounds in whatever circle you are in. Sad, very very sad."

You see, maybe it's just a matter of preference. Why do I have to be ignorant? Why can't you understand that it is not about dominance but devotion to each other?

I haven't called you names or implied that the reason you have an aversion to taking your husband's last name is because you are divorce and jaded, pissed because you gave yourself completely and got the shaft. I didn't say that in the back of your mind you are wondering if this new marriage will work out, and you might have to change your name again, and that pisses you off even more.

Plently of women take their husbands last name, you are in the minority. Plenty of women find pleasure in being addressed as Mrs. John Doe. Plenty of women dreamed about taking their husband last name, and would't even think of keeping their maiden name. Are they all just stupid and backwood because you choose to keep your own name?

[Downslide]

Traditionally, a woman has taken the husband's name after marriage.

However, I don't see any value in changing the last name... there is generally no benefit or obligation in today's society. Often, when a person receives a degree from a university, they cannot have a different one issued w/ a married name.

Also, I see no reason why the husband could not take the wife's name.

I think it's only value is related personal preference.

[MrsMoe]

I didn't say it was ok for males and not for females, I just said it's not for me.


I am talking about the type that is overly concerned with being independent and constantly trying to prove to me how much she doesn't need a man. Especially since no one ever implied that she did. She probably pisses and moans when I open the door for her too.

You see, maybe it's just a matter of preference. Why do I have to be ignorant? Why can't you understand that it is not about dominance but devotion to each other?

I haven't called you names or implied that the reason you have an aversion to taking your husband's last name is because you are divorce and jaded, pissed because you gave yourself completely and got the shaft. I didn't say that in the back of your mind you are wondering if this new marriage will work out, and you might have to change your name again, and that pisses you off even more.

Plently of women take their husbands last name, you are in the minority. Plenty of women find pleasure in being addressed as Mrs. John Doe. Plenty of women dreamed about taking their husband last name, and would't even think of keeping their maiden name. Are they all just stupid and backwood because you choose to keep your own name?
1. So in your world it is OK for men but not women then. ;) I love how you skirted around the question.

2. Piss and moan about opening the door? Ummmm no - my husband and I open the door for each other. It's about give and take.

3. It's not about dominance? But you have double standards, so please clarify this.

4. I have no doubt my marriage will work out. This marriage cannot be compared with my previous marriage. I am not jaded, and I am hardly pissed off. lol I love my last name. I kept my last name in my prior marriage also. ;)

5. Plenty of women may find pleasure in Being Called Mrs. John Doe - and those women also find pleasure in being subject to their husbands. Just because culture accepts things doesn't make it right.

6. Stupid and backwoods? Perhaps. Or perhaps they never stopped to think about it.

[Choobus]

There's a simple policy to decide this issue: IF you take the cock you take the name. Any complaints will be stifled by having a half chub shoved down your throat.

And we're done.

[MrsMoe]

There's a simple policy to decide this issue: IF you take the cock you take the name. Any complaints will be stifled by having a half chub shoved down your throat.

And we're done.
Priceless

[Jennifer]

5. Plenty of women may find pleasure in Being Called Mrs. John Doe - and those women also find pleasure in being subject to their husbands. Just because culture accepts things doesn't make it right.
Yes, and can I add that it is also a "tradition" for women in the middle east to be castrated. Playing the "tradition" card, only tells me that you don't have a good reason for the practice.

And finally, gentlemen, spare us the my-wife-slash-girlfriend- says-my-shit-doesnt-stink argument. I expect that from Frank, but hope the crowd back here has more sense.

[ocmpoma]

"You know, for a free thinking forum, for a group of people aware and intelligent enough to realize that there is no God, you would think they also had enough intelligence to come to an understanding about equal human rights."

You have forgotten, MrsMoe, that almost all men are absolute asses. And I think that the ones who don't care what name their spouse would have wouldn't bother to post in a forum about it. Personally, I think that no one here has made anything even remotely resembling a logical case for changing one's name upon marriage. Equivalent to driving on the other side of the street? That's just ridiculous. Tradition? That's bullshit. Male insecurity? That, at least, is the real reason they want a wife with the same name.

[MrsMoe]

"You know, for a free thinking forum, for a group of people aware and intelligent enough to realize that there is no God, you would think they also had enough intelligence to come to an understanding about equal human rights."

You have forgotten, MrsMoe, that almost all men are absolute asses. And I think that the ones who don't care what name their spouse would have wouldn't bother to post in a forum about it. Personally, I think that no one here has made anything even remotely resembling a logical case for changing one's name upon marriage. Equivalent to driving on the other side of the street? That's just ridiculous. Tradition? That's bullshit. Male insecurity? That, at least, is the real reason they want a wife with the same name.
I don't think all men are asses. Just like I don't think all women are bitches. There are always a few rotten apples in a barrel, it's human nature. You are smack on, IMO, that he shows a lot of male insecurity. Hit the nail on the head.

[JP]

And IMO your an angry, closet lesbian who is pissed because she doesn't have a dick. So what if you don't like the tradition, who the fuck are you? Should my wife give you a call to make sure all her decisions are ok with your lesbian lifestyle?

Gotta go now, gonna go stick my wife's face in the pillow while I think about all you whiney women.

[TheSnake]

I don't know if anyone covered this view yet, so I'll say it. I think, if I'd marry, I wouldn't want my bride to take my name. I think it would make me feel strange. If she had a very ugly name, then maybe it might be a good idea to take mine, since mine isn't that bad.

[MrsMoe]

I don't know if anyone covered this view yet, so I'll say it. I think, if I'd marry, I wouldn't want my bride to take my name. I think it would make me feel strange. If she had a very ugly name, then maybe it might be a good idea to take mine, since mine isn't that bad.
he he he My old boss's married last name was... Bizzaro. I kid you not! :o

[ocmpoma]

"I don't think all men are asses."
Neither do I - hence the almost. I've only met one or two that aren't, though.
As for all women being bitches, most of the women I've met weren't what I would call a bitch. Dumber than a bag of hammers, yes, but not a bitch.

[MrsMoe]

Neither do I - hence the almost. I've only met one or two that aren't, though.
heh

[Sternwallow]

Just a note: the legal side of this name change thing is not dependent on the tradition. A woman can change her name to almost anything within reason that she wants. I refused to state a preference one way or the other to my bride and she chose, on her own, to take my name and she also changed her FIRST name at the same time. I was secretly leaning toward her keeping her "maiden" name, but this outcome is fine and it has served us both well these last 30+ years.