Reduktionator
08-30-2005, 03:20 PM
Hi everyone. There is something that I hear over and over coming from theists trying to "prove" the existence of god : "Well, of nothing can only come nothing, so something that exists must come from something (ie. created). The universe exists, so it must have been caused into existence by "some higher power"...". We've all heard this simplistic argument at least once, especially on this forum (you know, the watch and the watchmaker stuff)
But wait a second: "something" definitely comes from "nothing". Ever heard of virtual particles? Yes sir, wether you like it or not, those little things literally pop out of NOTHING, as long as they are "re-absorbed" by "nothing" quick enough....doesn't make sense to you? well, hard for me too to understand it without using the only "real" natural language, maths, but the Casimir effect is there, experimentally, and says..."eheh, who/what do you think you are, so arrogant as to believe that everything should make sense to your little ape-like brain that evolved on earth and is wired for some survival, but surely not for a complete physical understanding of this beautiful Universe..."
(Casimir effect: too long to really detail here, and no theist would have a chance of grasping the concept, but basically: in perfect "vacuum", two metal plates close enough to each other attract themselves to each other...it's not only gravity, but can be and indeed is proved to be the result of huge number of paired-particles popping out of nowhere (like magic, only it's not) and almost dissapearing at the same time.....if you want more, it is a manifestation of the heisenberg uncertainty relationship)
I mean, it is so clear that the cause-and-effect relationship used by theists to advance their supertitious believe really is not a set property of nature...stuff does pop out of nowhere, for no reason else that it can! True.....ask any quantum physicists
By the way, quantum theory explains much of the world, and is the basis for the proper functioning of, amongst almost everything, computers, tv's, microwaves, radio.....
We have to admit it folks: we cant grasp most of the universe, really (ever try to picture a 4-d continuum...? what about the "foaming" of space-time on short scale? or the puzzle (really is a puzzle only to us 'cause we are the ones asking the damn questions) of consciouness?
Really, the "watch/watchmaker" bullshit, or cause and effect relationship, only applies to our scale magnitude: much smaller, and watches pop out of nowhere, which is.....natural and, i guess, the norm....Theists are so limited, but it's not only their fault.....brainwashing and "environmental" pressure sure take their toll!
I do not mean to be arrogant at all, I'm only a little french guy studying here in the good'ol USA...Just keep your mind (well, we don't have such a thing actually, but eh...) open about such things that "violate" your understanding of nature...
The only way to get closer to the truth is science, since experiments and their results are actually testable, and the beauty of understanding theoretical physics is.....wonderful and awe-inspiring...!!!
But wait a second: "something" definitely comes from "nothing". Ever heard of virtual particles? Yes sir, wether you like it or not, those little things literally pop out of NOTHING, as long as they are "re-absorbed" by "nothing" quick enough....doesn't make sense to you? well, hard for me too to understand it without using the only "real" natural language, maths, but the Casimir effect is there, experimentally, and says..."eheh, who/what do you think you are, so arrogant as to believe that everything should make sense to your little ape-like brain that evolved on earth and is wired for some survival, but surely not for a complete physical understanding of this beautiful Universe..."
(Casimir effect: too long to really detail here, and no theist would have a chance of grasping the concept, but basically: in perfect "vacuum", two metal plates close enough to each other attract themselves to each other...it's not only gravity, but can be and indeed is proved to be the result of huge number of paired-particles popping out of nowhere (like magic, only it's not) and almost dissapearing at the same time.....if you want more, it is a manifestation of the heisenberg uncertainty relationship)
I mean, it is so clear that the cause-and-effect relationship used by theists to advance their supertitious believe really is not a set property of nature...stuff does pop out of nowhere, for no reason else that it can! True.....ask any quantum physicists
By the way, quantum theory explains much of the world, and is the basis for the proper functioning of, amongst almost everything, computers, tv's, microwaves, radio.....
We have to admit it folks: we cant grasp most of the universe, really (ever try to picture a 4-d continuum...? what about the "foaming" of space-time on short scale? or the puzzle (really is a puzzle only to us 'cause we are the ones asking the damn questions) of consciouness?
Really, the "watch/watchmaker" bullshit, or cause and effect relationship, only applies to our scale magnitude: much smaller, and watches pop out of nowhere, which is.....natural and, i guess, the norm....Theists are so limited, but it's not only their fault.....brainwashing and "environmental" pressure sure take their toll!
I do not mean to be arrogant at all, I'm only a little french guy studying here in the good'ol USA...Just keep your mind (well, we don't have such a thing actually, but eh...) open about such things that "violate" your understanding of nature...
The only way to get closer to the truth is science, since experiments and their results are actually testable, and the beauty of understanding theoretical physics is.....wonderful and awe-inspiring...!!!