Is God everywhere... or not?

[oliverwxyz]

In the Old Testament God walks in the garden and chats to Adam and Eve, he wrestles with Jacob(Gen 32) , Moses (Exodus 33) hides in a cleft in a rock and watches God go by and sees his back, God descends on a mountain in the form of fire and smoke, God is described as dwelling in a holy tent and speaking from the top of the ark of the covernant inside it, or as showing himself as a pillar of smoke leading the Israelites through the desert. Is God an omnipresent spirit, everywhere at the same time, or not??

[SKS]

He is three seperate being integrated into one simultaneously. He is both a limited physical mortal human and an unlimited immortal immaterial omnipresence.

Welcome to the contradictory, paradoxical world of Christianity.

[Bighead]

God can't be everywhere, or he would have been there to know that Eve had spoken with the mystic snake and eaten the forbidden fruit. He also wouldn't have had to ask them who told them that they were naked.

[Cap'n Awesome]

It just shows how Yahweh evolved from a Zues-like diety, to a more modern all-encompassing force over the years. A few hundred years ago nobody believed that god was everywhere, they thought of him as a deffinite diety, hanging out in heaven. The transformation over the centuries is what makes all the inconsitencies between the biblical god and the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving god that is accepted by most churches today. Originally he was just a powerful male diety, not any of those things.

[oliverwxyz]

It just shows how Yahweh evolved from a Zues-like diety, to a more modern all-encompassing force over the years. A few hundred years ago nobody believed that god was everywhere, they thought of him as a deffinite diety, hanging out in heaven. The transformation over the centuries is what makes all the inconsitencies between the biblical god and the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving god that is accepted by most churches today. Originally he was just a powerful male diety, not any of those things.
Good point, I think you're right. And he was thought to have a body of some kind - he LITERALLY 'made us in his image' - that is what the early Xtians and Jews would have thought, not that it was only his 'image' in some nebuolus moral or intellectual or spiritual way.
Similarly Heaven was a place up above the clouds and Hell was a place under the Earth. It is only as science improves believers have to resort to saying Heaven is located in some seperate dimension altogether. Also, on a similar level the original Christians probably believed jesus was coming back ASAP to set up a literal 'Kingdom of God' on EARTH , and that he would preside over a banquet inaugurating it. In one of the gospels a mother actually asks J if her son can sit next to him. We see in the disappointed remarks of the two disciples to who Jesus appears after his resurrection in Luke, that even they, who supposedly had benefitted from all his teachings including saying he would die and come back to life and that he was God incarnate etc were discouraged (despite having heard claims that jesus is risen!) and had hoped he would be the one to free Israel (from the Roman rule). They also, BTW, describe him as a powerful prophet, not as God, or even his Son.
Nowadays the 'Kingdom of God' references are interpreted in a variety of wooly ways. Another example - Jesus clearly said he'd be back soon. He wasn't. Ok then say some Christains, he did come back but just spiritually. He lives in the hearts of true believers.

All examples of th trend away from literalism to vagueness and metaphor that is harder to disprove.

Oliver

[miata]

In the Old Testament God walks in the garden and chats to Adam and Eve, he wrestles with Jacob(Gen 32) , Moses (Exodus 33) hides in a cleft in a rock and watches God go by and sees his back, God descends on a mountain in the form of fire and smoke, God is described as dwelling in a holy tent and speaking from the top of the ark of the covernant inside it, or as showing himself as a pillar of smoke leading the Israelites through the desert. Is God an omnipresent spirit, everywhere at the same time, or not??
Only Santa is everywhere.

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

In the Old Testament God walks in the garden and chats to Adam and Eve, he wrestles with Jacob(Gen 32) , Moses (Exodus 33) hides in a cleft in a rock and watches God go by and sees his back, God descends on a mountain in the form of fire and smoke, God is described as dwelling in a holy tent and speaking from the top of the ark of the covernant inside it, or as showing himself as a pillar of smoke leading the Israelites through the desert. Is God an omnipresent spirit, everywhere at the same time, or not??
Only Santa is everywhere.
This Santa?http://polargeek.com/wp-uploads/images/merry_xmas.jpg
or this Santa?http://www.geocities.com/julietlara/km_santa_bender.jpg

[iridium]

God is an omni present spirit
all powerful and all knowing
he gave mankind a choice
man messed up

Santa - ya right

where does it say that christ would come back "immediately"?

[Squeaky]

God can't be everywhere, or he would have been there to know that Eve had spoken with the mystic snake and eaten the forbidden fruit. He also wouldn't have had to ask them who told them that they were naked.
Well if God is a just God like Christians believe then he would have wanted to give Adam and Eve a chance to tell the truth about what happened. Since were on to what the Bible has to say "...he is paitent with everyone, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"-2 Peter 3:9 Therefore God would have wanted to give them a chance to repent.

[Bighead]

God can't be everywhere, or he would have been there to know that Eve had spoken with the mystic snake and eaten the forbidden fruit. He also wouldn't have had to ask them who told them that they were naked.
Well if God is a just God like Christians believe then he would have wanted to give Adam and Eve a chance to tell the truth about what happened. Since were on to what the Bible has to say "...he is paitent with everyone, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"-2 Peter 3:9 Therefore God would have wanted to give them a chance to repent.
Well then why didn't the dick-wad show up in the first place to stop the whole mess!? If I knew my kid was talking to a mystic snake, and the snake was trying to get him to do shit that I knew my kid shouldn't be doing, I would do what I could to stop my kid from doing something that I knew was going to fuck up everything for all of eternity. What a dick-wad your god must be. That's why I killed him and buried him in the yard.

[Sir Sin-O-Lot]

God is an omni present spirit
all powerful and all knowing
he gave mankind a choice
man messed up

Santa - ya right

where does it say that christ would come back "immediately"?
Is says right here in the book of Leviticus, see?
Santa is everywhere, beware.

[Squeaky]

God can't be everywhere, or he would have been there to know that Eve had spoken with the mystic snake and eaten the forbidden fruit. He also wouldn't have had to ask them who told them that they were naked.
Well if God is a just God like Christians believe then he would have wanted to give Adam and Eve a chance to tell the truth about what happened. Since were on to what the Bible has to say "...he is paitent with everyone, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"-2 Peter 3:9 Therefore God would have wanted to give them a chance to repent.
Well then why didn't the dick-wad show up in the first place to stop the whole mess!? If I knew my kid was talking to a mystic snake, and the snake was trying to get him to do shit that I knew my kid shouldn't be doing, I would do what I could to stop my kid from doing something that I knew was going to fuck up everything for all of eternity. What a dick-wad your god must be. That's why I killed him and buried him in the yard.
Im sorry i didnt adress that previously. Well, that goes hand in hand with God wanting them to come forth and tell him what they had done. He doesnt want to dictate peoples lives, he wants them to make their own decisions. They screwed up. If God had interfered we would now be talking about what a jerk God was for interfering with human affairs. But this is no longer about his omnipresence is it? :)

[calpurnpiso]

Is god everywhere or not?

Of course it is, if by god one means Earth, Fire, Air and water. "God" the tetradei is everywhere and its presence is constantly felt....:)

[oliverwxyz]

where does it say that christ would come back "immediately"?
There are passages where I think J says something along the lines of there are people listening to him who will not die before they see the Son of Man come back in glory and/or see the Kingdom of God come. He also says this current generation will not pass away before these things happen. Also the imminent arrival of the Kingdom is the essence of Jesus' preaching mission (and most likely this is the most accuracte bit of the NT in terms of a 'historical Jesus' according to respevcted scholars) eg Mark 1,14:
After John had been arrested Jesus went into Galilee. There he proclaimed the gospel from God saying, 'the time is fulfilled and the Kingdom of God is close at hand. Repent and believe the gospel'.

[PondokTuhan]

Is god everywhere or not?

Of course it is, if by god one means Earth, Fire, Air and water. "God" the tetradei is everywhere and its presence is constantly felt....:)
Since when is tetradei a so called "God". Earth, fire, air, and water are elements. And these elements are not everywhere like God is. Sometimes a certain place has a fire but another place wont. It is present but fires in different parts of the world do not go on at the same time. God is everywhere he is where i am, and he is where u are too. Psalms 139:7-10: "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast." God is omnipresent. That is why he can minister to people in different areas of the world. And he listens to anyone who has a longing to know and seek him.

[oliverwxyz]

And he listens to anyone who has a longing to know and seek him.
No he doesn't - I've tried. He doesn't answers prayers and at the most all you get is a bit of fuzzy emtotional satisfaction from thinking someone is listening and cares. It's all in your mind. If he really existed and was all-powerful he'd make himself known in a less vague way.

Oliver

[iridium]

yes he does oliverwxyz. Maybe you're just not listening to anything other then what you're already presupposing you should hear. That's in your mind. he has made himself known all throughout his creation and more and yet man WILL not see. Try listening to him. no presuppositions. ask him for the chance to know him.

[Bighead]

Well if God is a just God like Christians believe then he would have wanted to give Adam and Eve a chance to tell the truth about what happened. Since were on to what the Bible has to say "...he is paitent with everyone, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"-2 Peter 3:9 Therefore God would have wanted to give them a chance to repent.
Well then why didn't the dick-wad show up in the first place to stop the whole mess!? If I knew my kid was talking to a mystic snake, and the snake was trying to get him to do shit that I knew my kid shouldn't be doing, I would do what I could to stop my kid from doing something that I knew was going to fuck up everything for all of eternity. What a dick-wad your god must be. That's why I killed him and buried him in the yard.
Im sorry i didnt adress that previously. Well, that goes hand in hand with God wanting them to come forth and tell him what they had done. He doesnt want to dictate peoples lives, he wants them to make their own decisions. They screwed up. If God had interfered we would now be talking about what a jerk God was for interfering with human affairs. But this is no longer about his omnipresence is it? :)
Once again, you are wrong. If the big g had been there and interfered, we would not be sinful and we wouldn't be discussing how much of a jerk g is for interfering...we wouldn't be able to question him because that would be a sin. :|

[iridium]

to oliverwxyz - God's time is not ours. He doesn't lie. i think tht passage has been misinterpreted by many. it refers to the fact that the time between Christ's ascension and his return is the time given to us to spread the Good News of salvation to all the world. God was and still is merciful and He gave us a chance to reach out to all (all to hear) before the time of judgement. The Kingdom refered to was the church that had been instituted by God to carry out this purpose. I don't presume to know alot, much less all there is to know. This was as quick and precise an "explanation as i could come up with.

[Philboid Studge]

Maybe you're just not listening to anything other then what you're already presupposing you should hear. That's in your mind. he has made himself known all throughout his creation and more and yet man WILL not see. Try listening to him. no presuppositions. ask him for the chance to know him.
Interesting. What is it that makes you think you're qualified to discuss the states of minds of others?
you're just not listening
you're already presupposing
That's in your mind
man WILL not see
Try listening
no presuppositions
Is it because you have had what you believe is spiritual revelation of some kind? I.e., you have 'seen God,' therefore it follows that others must be able to see Him as well--and in the same way. Why?

And doesn't it require 'presuppositions' to see God?

[miata]

In the Old Testament God walks in the garden and chats to Adam and Eve, he wrestles with Jacob(Gen 32) , Moses (Exodus 33) hides in a cleft in a rock and watches God go by and sees his back, God descends on a mountain in the form of fire and smoke, God is described as dwelling in a holy tent and speaking from the top of the ark of the covernant inside it, or as showing himself as a pillar of smoke leading the Israelites through the desert. Is God an omnipresent spirit, everywhere at the same time, or not??
Only Santa is everywhere.
This Santa?http://polargeek.com/wp-uploads/images/merry_xmas.jpg
or this Santa?http://www.geocities.com/julietlara/km_santa_bender.jpg
This made my day.

[calpurnpiso]

to oliverwxyz - God's time is not ours. He doesn't lie. i think tht passage has been misinterpreted by many. it refers to the fact that the time between Christ's ascension and his return is the time given to us to spread the Good News of salvation to all the world. God was and still is merciful and He gave us a chance to reach out to all (all to hear) before the time of judgement. The Kingdom refered to was the church that had been instituted by God to carry out this purpose. I don't presume to know alot, much less all there is to know. This was as quick and precise an "explanation as i could come up with.
He doesn't lie?..of course, that which doesn't exist can not lie for in a world of religious mythologies everything is possible. Remember that before there was a Christ, there was Osiris, Horus, Minn, Imhotep, Atun, Zeus, Apollo, Sol Invictus, Mithras and many more. ALL without exception did IDENTICAL feats as those of Christ. Those folks who invented Christ gave him the SAME atributes, PASSION, MIRACLES, promise of returning and SALVATION of humanity from "sin" than older gods that preceded Him. A fact is that NONE of the gods mentioned, including Jesus could pass this EXISTENCE test....and if they can not pass this test, well, they are simply products of our brain's ability to create thoughts, ideas, and concepts....all of which can be distorted by disease and confused with reality...:) Wanna see for yourself how effective is jesus as a 'savior"?

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go to a top of a twenty story building bring a Babble start praying and quoting praying and still quoting and praying to the "Lord and Saviour" so he would assist you and save you when you Jumps from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, the reality of it all will be that the Jesus Myth will NOT show up for prayers to any myth, including the tooth fairy, are never answered. Since he failed to show up or answer prayers you will find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder or temporal lobe epylepsy which I define as Christ-psychosis. Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much one would praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save us for he doesn't exist.

Be afraid, be very afraid of MYTHS being accepted as REALITY......:)

[PondokTuhan]

And he listens to anyone who has a longing to know and seek him.
No he doesn't - I've tried. He doesn't answers prayers and at the most all you get is a bit of fuzzy emtotional satisfaction from thinking someone is listening and cares. It's all in your mind. If he really existed and was all-powerful he'd make himself known in a less vague way.

Oliver
So you have a personal experience where you have actually tried to pray to God, and he didn't seem to answer you. And you did feel a bit of emotion? Maybe its in your mind when you tried to pray to God. For me it comes from the heart. You also have to be sincere when you pray, and your reasoning should not be to getting God to do something for you like a genie giving you wishes. God has nothing to prove to us, and if we want truly heart and soul to know God he will reveal himself to us in some way. And we will know God has answered us. As a Christian I know if I pray about something God will answer me but that doesn't mean that he will answer it the way I want it to be answered. But whatever happens it is God's will in the end, even if it does not seem right in our eyes. God has a reason for everything.

[Squeaky]

where does it say that christ would come back "immediately"?
There are passages where I think J says something along the lines of there are people listening to him who will not die before they see the Son of Man come back in glory and/or see the Kingdom of God come. He also says this current generation will not pass away before these things happen. Also the imminent arrival of the Kingdom is the essence of Jesus' preaching mission (and most likely this is the most accuracte bit of the NT in terms of a 'historical Jesus' according to respevcted scholars) eg Mark 1,14:
After John had been arrested Jesus went into Galilee. There he proclaimed the gospel from God saying, 'the time is fulfilled and the Kingdom of God is close at hand. Repent and believe the gospel'.
You say that you THINK that Jesus says there are people listening to him who will not die before they see the Son of Man come back in glory and/or see the Kingdom of God come? Can you find a scriptual reference for this? It somewhat rings a bell but the only verse i can think of about someone seeing Jesus before he died is Luke 2:25-27
"And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon. And this man was righteous and devout, eagerly expecting the Consolation of Israel. And the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it happened to him, having been divinely instructed by the Holy Spirit, he was not to see death before he would see the Christ of the Lord. " Im in a rush right now, ill get back to you on the Mark 1:14. :)

[Squeaky]

:)
Well then why didn't the dick-wad show up in the first place to stop the whole mess!? If I knew my kid was talking to a mystic snake, and the snake was trying to get him to do shit that I knew my kid shouldn't be doing, I would do what I could to stop my kid from doing something that I knew was going to fuck up everything for all of eternity. What a dick-wad your god must be. That's why I killed him and buried him in the yard.
Im sorry i didnt adress that previously. Well, that goes hand in hand with God wanting them to come forth and tell him what they had done. He doesnt want to dictate peoples lives, he wants them to make their own decisions. They screwed up. If God had interfered we would now be talking about what a jerk God was for interfering with human affairs. But this is no longer about his omnipresence is it? :)
Once again, you are wrong. If the big g had been there and interfered, we would not be sinful and we wouldn't be discussing how much of a jerk g is for interfering...we wouldn't be able to question him because that would be a sin. :|
Yes, i suppose you are right in that.:) Of course, you didnt say anything about watching your sons every step, you only adressed if he was talking to a mystical snake. So was I. So, i have a question, after you stop your kid from listening to the mystical snake, are you going to watch his every step in life and not let him step out of line? Of course you dont want him to get in trouble like that, but if he doesnt make mistakes, how can he learn. Trial and error.

[Tenspace]

And he listens to anyone who has a longing to know and seek him.
No he doesn't - I've tried. He doesn't answers prayers and at the most all you get is a bit of fuzzy emtotional satisfaction from thinking someone is listening and cares. It's all in your mind. If he really existed and was all-powerful he'd make himself known in a less vague way.

Oliver
So you have a personal experience where you have actually tried to pray to God, and he didn't seem to answer you. And you did feel a bit of emotion? Maybe its in your mind when you tried to pray to God. For me it comes from the heart. You also have to be sincere when you pray, and your reasoning should not be to getting God to do something for you like a genie giving you wishes. God has nothing to prove to us, and if we want truly heart and soul to know God he will reveal himself to us in some way. And we will know God has answered us. As a Christian I know if I pray about something God will answer me but that doesn't mean that he will answer it the way I want it to be answered. But whatever happens it is God's will in the end, even if it does not seem right in our eyes. God has a reason for everything.
What so many new theists don't pick up on is that many of us used to be theists, and some (like me) are old guys that were religious for more than 30 years. We are very, very experienced with the religious experience. :)

[PondokTuhan]

What so many new theists don't pick up on is that many of us used to be theists, and some (like me) are old guys that were religious for more than 30 years. We are very, very experienced with the religious experience. :)
Well, then what made you give up being a theist? HOw did you make your conclusion that there was suddenly no God? How could you be religious for 30 years and then suddenly come to this realization that the religion you were following was not worth living because it wasn't true?

[Tenspace]

What so many new theists don't pick up on is that many of us used to be theists, and some (like me) are old guys that were religious for more than 30 years. We are very, very experienced with the religious experience. :)
Well, then what made you give up being a theist? HOw did you make your conclusion that there was suddenly no God? How could you be religious for 30 years and then suddenly come to this realization that the religion you were following was not worth living because it wasn't true?
Thirty-eight years for me, actually. I have detailed my story in other posts. I'll have to dig and find you the links.

[Philboid Studge]

...if we want truly heart and soul to know God he will reveal himself to us in some way ...
I wanted to isoloate this quote to note two things: 1) we hear a variation of this theme ALL the time 2) replace the words 'God,' 'he,' and 'himself' with just about anything else and whattayaknow -- it still works fine as a maxim. Just choose yer poison.

[miata]

God is an omni present spirit
all powerful and all knowing
he gave mankind a choice
man messed up

Santa - ya right

where does it say that christ would come back "immediately"?
I have found God he was in my colon the whole time.

[calpurnpiso]

Ponoktuhan wrote:

"So you have a personal experience where you have actually tried to pray to God, and he didn't seem to answer you. And you did feel a bit of emotion? Maybe its in your mind when you tried to pray to God. For me it comes from the heart."

If one KNOWS how the brain works, it is easy to hypnotice oneself and control many, otherwise, unconscious systems in one's bodies. This I refered to as intelligent meditation where spirituality ( inner puerile delusions) is LEFT OUT. One can control one's dreams, thoughts and many involuntary systems in our bodies by merely LEARNING to use our brains. I do it all of the time and at LXIII never get sick, I even control my heart ( I can slow it down at WILL). The concept god is an illusion which can be destructive and detrimental to one's neurological health. As my JET clearly shows prayer to myths are USELESS and completely innefective. I must point out, the brain MAKE us what we are and with this organ we can create gods and any type of delusion one wants. If one can not do it by simply thinking about it ( it requires years of training in how to use this organ), one can ingest pychoactive substances ( peyotl, harmine, ayahuasca, bufo alvarius etc) and PRESTO!..Instant feelings of the divine, god etc.

Remember, the heart is a PUMP, nobody will be able to think with it. Though until just few hundred years ago the Christ-psychotics thought this was the case...and some still do...:)

[oliverwxyz]

What so many new theists don't pick up on is that many of us used to be theists, and some (like me) are old guys that were religious for more than 30 years. We are very, very experienced with the religious experience. :)
Well, then what made you give up being a theist? HOw did you make your conclusion that there was suddenly no God? How could you be religious for 30 years and then suddenly come to this realization that the religion you were following was not worth living because it wasn't true?
Just genuine seeking, questioning and research and accepting the logical results of that research. It's easy to be a Christian of you just go to church, listen to sermons nad sing hymns etc. If you read the Bible critically, and thoroughly, and study Christian doctrine, church history and comparative religion (as well as modern science) then you can't have a 'simple faith' anymore. Maybe 'ignorance is bliss' and we're wrong to seek knowledge, like the Garden of Eden story seems to suggest (or Paul's criticism of sophisticated Pagans who dismissed the apparent 'foolishness' of Christian teaching) but I think knowledge is worth having even if you have to give up comforting illusions.

Oliver