Just a personal ramble, hope you don't mind

[ross_curfew]

Hey guys/girls. I came across your site from a link someone left on my church's site basically slagging something off and adding nothing intelligable or helpful to a conversation.
Anywho, thats not the point... I'm really not here to get into an argument or start telling you what to believe, however much I'd love you guys to experience God in the personal way I have, thats a descision you have to make. By the way, I'm from the UK, just so you know.
But yeah, i don't really know what to say other than I'm so friggin in love with Jesus and I'm so excited about what God's doing in me and the people around me. The more time I spend with God, the more I just get the urge to serve those around me and just be Jesus to them. When it comes to the whole homosexuality thing, i don't agree with the practice really but, that isn't going to stop me from being mates with those around me who are in that situation.

I'd also like to suggest that homosexuals and atheists aren't destroying the moral fabric of America but in fact that its the church's inability to carry out its calling to serve a broken world that isn't helping.

As far as church history goes, there's a reason they're called the dark ages. The church and state controlled God and stopped people engaging with God as the church was originally meant to facilitate. It even changed and edited the Bible to give power to the state. So I'd like to apologise and repent on behalf of the church for its messed up ways at points. But honestly there is life in the church, it is there for the benefit of those in and out of it and we as Christians are here to love the world around us, not pick up on its failings. Jesus himself said that you should remove the plank from your own eye before you take the dust out of your brothers'. An analogy used to describe how we should approach sin in our lives and the lives of those around us. I don't have the power to judge anyone, and I wouldnt dare do so but I just wanted you guys to have a taste of what it means to be in relationship with an almighty, loving father, friend, counsellor and king.

Thanks for your time, and God bless

[TheSnake]

Welcome Ross. You seem more reasonable than some of the theists here, it's refreshing to have new blood (figuratively of course) as unfortunately many theists don't stay here for very long and it's kind of hard being an atheist when there's no-one around who's God beliefs to refute.
Odd surname you've got, does that mean that you only post at nights when you're not allowed out?

[ross_curfew]

Lol no its the name of my band. I'm actually in two bands, one playing drums and one singing...!

Its a pleasure, to be honest I really don't like the whole religion thing, I think its very ungod and just creates division. I forgot to add that the church is meant to be the church displayed in Acts... (2 vs 42-47)

42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (NIV)

I think that is the essence of what church is about, serving as worship to God and loving those around you in the same way Jesus loved the hurting, broken and lost

[PanAtheist]

Ross, you have a nice character.
But it is a character.
The real you realised that the bible stories and the tenets of Christianity were absurd years ago.
Integrate.

Be the best you can be,
OR
"live" as if the outrageous absurdities of Christianity and the Bible, and the wickednesses of "the LORD God" and "Jesus" and "the Bible" are goodness.

It's a choice.
And no one, I repeat, NO ONE, can help you.
:-)

[calpurnpiso]

Hey guys/girls. I came across your site from a link someone left on my church's site basically slagging something off and adding nothing intelligable or helpful to a conversation.
Anywho, thats not the point... I'm really not here to get into an argument or start telling you what to believe, however much I'd love you guys to experience God in the personal way I have, thats a descision you have to make. By the way, I'm from the UK, just so you know.
But yeah, i don't really know what to say other than I'm so friggin in love with Jesus and I'm so excited about what God's doing in me and the people around me. The more time I spend with God, the more I just get the urge to serve those around me and just be Jesus to them. When it comes to the whole homosexuality thing, i don't agree with the practice really but, that isn't going to stop me from being mates with those around me who are in that situation.

I'd also like to suggest that homosexuals and atheists aren't destroying the moral fabric of America but in fact that its the church's inability to carry out its calling to serve a broken world that isn't helping.

As far as church history goes, there's a reason they're called the dark ages. The church and state controlled God and stopped people engaging with God as the church was originally meant to facilitate. It even changed and edited the Bible to give power to the state. So I'd like to apologise and repent on behalf of the church for its messed up ways at points. But honestly there is life in the church, it is there for the benefit of those in and out of it and we as Christians are here to love the world around us, not pick up on its failings. Jesus himself said that you should remove the plank from your own eye before you take the dust out of your brothers'. An analogy used to describe how we should approach sin in our lives and the lives of those around us. I don't have the power to judge anyone, and I wouldnt dare do so but I just wanted you guys to have a taste of what it means to be in relationship with an almighty, loving father, friend, counsellor and king.

Thanks for your time, and God bless
You must take into account what produces your Christ euphoria, where are those feelings located. Isn't the brain? Aren't people under psychoactive drugs, children, mentally retarded, the schizophrenia and temporal lobe epilepsy experiencing almost IDENTICAL euphoria, anguish and delusions?

The human brain is the CREATOR of god and self-reassuring delusions. If you do research you'll find out this is a fact. The science of neurology is slowly finding out that religious beliefs which are based on delusions, are not unlike those beliefs spouted by the mentally ill or those born with inhereted neurological defects.

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_945.html

This is from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrainqa.shtml

FROM: http://www.psychminded.co.uk/news/news2003/april03/God%20on%20the%20brain%20is%20religion%20just%20a% 20step%20away%20from%20mental%20illness.htm

"God on the brain: is religion just a step away from mental illness?"

The god feeling which RELEASES DOPAMINE on the brain can be REPRODUCE in the lab:

http://www.geocities.com/satanicus_2/GodHelmet.html

Also from the BBC about Jerusalem Syndrome:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/577180.stm

So, why would you want us mentally healthy folks to embrace the neurological disorder that affects you? We atheists ( with knowledge and practice) are able to release dopamine WITHOUT the need of Christ-psychosis or religious auto suggestive practices and deleterious irrational concepts been accepted as tangible reality. Those practices stagnate the intellect making people become quite ignorant and delusional.......:)

The mental illness of Christianity is what is destroying the world with its immorality, intolerance, intellectual infirmity, genocidal impetus, and abominable belief systems which only the mentally retarded would be proud of having. Let's not forget Christ-psychosis made Hitler what he was! A pious devoted TRUE CHRISTIAN. Here is the HISTORICAL RECORD of Christ-Psychosis. It is documented by historians, I suggest you study it, and LEARN about the history of your dopamine inducing Christ-psychosis :

http://www.geocities.com/iconoclastes.geo/victims.html

[ross_curfew]

The brain is indeed an incredible thing. But I believe myself to be worshipping God in mind, body and spirit. I do not believe that the spirit, or soul is just something created by the brain but is in fact a fundamental part of your identity as a person. I shall look at your websites and be open-minded to them. However I can strongly assure you that God is not my creation, but I am his. I hope one day you will meet God personally in spirit and realise for yourself that this is not a mere creation of the brain, however complex it may be.

[ross_curfew]

Thanks for your comments St Teabag, really helpful. I'm not a big fan of anal sex personally, and I jack of every now and then. Thank you very much

[ross_curfew]

Nah not really, thats not why I came on here. But you can know I'm a teenage guy and so i struggle quite a lot with it!

[ross_curfew]

Anywho, I'm off to bed. See you later everybody

[calpurnpiso]

Ross wrote:

"However I can strongly assure you that God is not my creation, but I am his."

Remember that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so far the evidence is that the brain is what creates our thoughts. The fact is that if I give you LSD and Peyotl, you'll be certain you are seen god, angels and conversing with them!

"I hope one day you will meet God personally in spirit and realise for yourself that this is not a mere creation of the brain, however complex it may be."

God doesn't exist. Here is where the story of Christ originated from:

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jwc_e/contents.html

..and about Jesus being "real" having the ability to affect matter, I will assure you he will not be able to. So, why believe in delusions to be real? Here is my JET.

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go to a top of a twenty story building bring a Babble start praying and quoting praying and still quoting and praying to the "Lord and Saviour" so he would assist you and save you when you Jumps from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, the reality of it all will be that the Jesus Myth will NOT show up for prayers to any myth, including the tooth fairy, are never answered. Since he failed to show up or answer prayers you will find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder or temporal lobe epylepsy which I define as Christ-psychosis. Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much one would praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save us for he doesn't exist.

[Switch25]

Welcome ross_curfew!!

Glad to have you on the forums. :)

Just wondering- what country do you live in?

[snap crafter]

Ug, I am so tired of these altruistic christians! Have some backbone ya goddam hippy!

Anyhoo, here's some info I'll need if your wanting me to take about your belief in god:
(assuming of course your not just here to preach, even if you refuse it earlier)
Are you a young earth creationist?
Do you believe evolution a reliable fact?
Do you believe science is a religion?
Do you believe there is actual evidence to support you god?
Do you know a man named Kent Hovind and if you do, do you think he has a point?
Do you think Intelligent Design should be taught in classroom settings?

Once we get past these little snags in your debrainwashing we'll get into why you make yourself believe in your god.

[Tenspace]

Ross, I hope you don't mind the "one-to-many" relationship we have here - you'll probably receive many responses over the next few days. Enough to keep you busy, anyway. Hey, we've lost two resident theists lately... care to apply for the job? ;) Welcome, and thank you for bringing respect with you.

Hey guys/girls. I came across your site from a link someone left on my church's site basically slagging something off and adding nothing intelligable or helpful to a conversation.
I find it amusing that we're being discussed at church sites.

Anywho, thats not the point... I'm really not here to get into an argument or start telling you what to believe, however much I'd love you guys to experience God in the personal way I have, thats a descision you have to make. By the way, I'm from the UK, just so you know.
"You don't want to tell us what to believe, :breath: I'd love for you guys to experience God."
I love it. A complete contradiction. :lol:

But yeah, i don't really know what to say other than I'm so friggin in love with Jesus and I'm so excited about what God's doing in me and the people around me. The more time I spend with God, the more I just get the urge to serve those around me and just be Jesus to them.
You sound like a teenager. Keep in mind that there are at least a dozen guys here in their thirties and beyond who believed in God for most of their lives. It's like walking up to an old guy and saying, "Hey... I just heard this great new band. Let me play all their songs for you, you're gonna love 'em. They're called The Beatles."

When it comes to the whole homosexuality thing, i don't agree with the practice really but, that isn't going to stop me from being mates with those around me who are in that situation.

I'd also like to suggest that homosexuals and atheists aren't destroying the moral fabric of America but in fact that its the church's inability to carry out its calling to serve a broken world that isn't helping.
At least you still have a few uninfected neurons left. :)

As far as church history goes, there's a reason they're called the dark ages. The church and state controlled God and stopped people engaging with God as the church was originally meant to facilitate. It even changed and edited the Bible to give power to the state. So I'd like to apologise and repent on behalf of the church for its messed up ways at points.
If you consider for a moment that The Church and God are creations of Man, you can see how horrible it is that these tools have been used over millennia to control and manipulate human populations.

But honestly there is life in the church, it is there for the benefit of those in and out of it and we as Christians are here to love the world around us, not pick up on its failings. Jesus himself said that you should remove the plank from your own eye before you take the dust out of your brothers'. An analogy used to describe how we should approach sin in our lives and the lives of those around us. I don't have the power to judge anyone, and I wouldnt dare do so but I just wanted you guys to have a taste of what it means to be in relationship with an almighty, loving father, friend, counsellor and king.
It's nice that you have a worldview untainted by the dark side of Christianity. If there's one thing I'd leave you with it's this: Don't take anybody's word for anything. Read. Investigate. Research. Learn to form your own opinions. You don't seem to be so lost in your religion that you have started to make up your own reality yet, and that's a good thing.

[Tenspace]

Lol no its the name of my band. I'm actually in two bands, one playing drums and one singing...!

Its a pleasure, to be honest I really don't like the whole religion thing, I think its very ungod and just creates division. I forgot to add that the church is meant to be the church displayed in Acts... (2 vs 42-47)

42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (NIV)

I think that is the essence of what church is about, serving as worship to God and loving those around you in the same way Jesus loved the hurting, broken and lost
You sound like someone who is hungry for knowledge, but have only been fed the Bible. May I suggest a search on the word "books" here in the forums, and see what turns up. Expand your horizons and all that. :)

Good luck!

[Tenspace]

Thanks for your comments St Teabag, really helpful. I'm not a big fan of anal sex personally, and I jack of every now and then. Thank you very much
You'll fit right in, apparently.

[ross_curfew]

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go to a top of a twenty story building bring a Babble start praying and quoting praying and still quoting and praying to the "Lord and Saviour" so he would assist you and save you when you Jumps from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying soft stuff, park his truck full of sponge rubber below to soften your landing. This should be very easy for this "saviour" since he has the ability to get into people's minds.

Well, the reality of it all will be that the Jesus Myth will NOT show up for prayers to any myth, including the tooth fairy, are never answered. Since he failed to show up or answer prayers you will find yourself splatered on the pavement below !. Jesus is plainly a mental aberration caused by a neurological disorder that exists ONLY on brains that are infected with a type of schizophrenic disorder or temporal lobe epylepsy which I define as Christ-psychosis. Jesus is a real as the Tooth Fairy, Sauroman or Allah..and besides, not matter how much one would praise his "name" he will be UNABLE to save us for he doesn't exist.
However much you'll think I'm simply trying to get out of this, this is the exact situation Jesus is presented with in the Bible. He is drawn out into the desert to pray and fast and there the devil tries to tempt him... (Matt 4 1-11)

The Temptation of Jesus
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'[a]"

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[b]"

7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'[c]"

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'[d]"

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.



I have accepted jesus as Lord of my life and therefore my answer would be the same as his...

[ross_curfew]

"You don't want to tell us what to believe, :breath: I'd love for you guys to experience God."
I love it. A complete contradiction. :lol:
Actually there is no contradiction in there at all. I was very careful to state that, although I would love to experience God as I have, that is your own descision and I am not here to condemn you of tell you what to believe. Sorry I didn't make that clearer

[ross_curfew]

Are you a young earth creationist?
Do you believe evolution a reliable fact?
Do you believe science is a religion?
Do you believe there is actual evidence to support you god?
Do you know a man named Kent Hovind and if you do, do you think he has a point?
Do you think Intelligent Design should be taught in classroom settings?

Once we get past these little snags in your debrainwashing we'll get into why you make yourself believe in your god.
To answer your question...

I am very careful when trying to express an opinion on creation and evolution as I am still forming an opinion. I thoroughly believe however, that God creted the earth and that there was a set order and process to that. I do not trust carbon dating as a reliable way of giving the earth an age, the theory of carbon dating is riddled with mistakes. For example, it is possible to suggest that due to increased carbon levels on our planet in the last few hundred years (due mainly to large scale industrilisation), carbon dating becomes obsolete.

As for evolution, I again do not regard it as a reliable theory. Obviously there is proof of adaptation on earth but we are yet to see one species simply jump to become another. Proof of adaptation does not prove evolution at all. I believe it is only regarded as 'truth' in today's society because it offers an alternative from creationist ideas, not because it actually holds the essence of truth.

I do not believe science is a religion personally, but perhaps people create it as a religion in their own lives. Science is a gift from God, not meant to disprove him but to inspire us to understand his creation. Science is a good thing.

I'm afraid I don't know of this guy, if you would care to enlighten me I will try to formulate a balanced opinion.

I think intelligent design should be presented as an option in schools, not a fact. People must decide themselves what to believe. Equally I am fed up with the theory of evolution being taught as fact. It is still a theory and is something that people must chose to believe. The teaching of intelligent design in schools has just as much of a place as the teaching of evolutionary theories. School children have the right to know both sides of the coin before they make up their minds.

I would appreciate it if you didn't approach me as someone who is brainwashed. Like you, I am curious for truth and I have discovered that in a real and personal God. I am no more brainwashed than you, please get passed your hatred of certain christians and view me as a normal human who is here to express an opinion.

[TheSnake]

School children have the right to know both sides of the coin before they make up their minds."
There's a hidden contradiction in that. It takes usually many years of studying to be able to actually say something worth the interest of the scientific community about evolution. Children are simply not able to make their minds about such things. Should they not be presented with factual information? The fact being that there is no controversy among scientists about evolution. Another fact is that ID is not science.
If you're interested at learning about these things, a good place to start would be talkorigins.org.
They've also got something on carbon dating somewhere. I believe that carbon dating isn't used to measure the age of Earth. The method becomes highly unreliable, when trying to use it on very old things.

[ross_curfew]

But evolution is not a fact, it still a largely unproven theory, therefore it should be taught as a theory. If it is taught as fact it eventually leads to the 'brainwashing' you all disapprove of. Would you not agree that creationist ideas have a place in school, to allow children and young people to formulate their own opinions when they feel the need to? I vie the Bible as the word of God, but it is also a very important historical document.

[WITHTEETH]

But evolution is not a fact, it still a largely unproven theory, therefore it should be taught as a theory. If it is taught as fact it eventually leads to the 'brainwashing' you all disapprove of. Would you not agree that creationist ideas have a place in school, to allow children and young people to formulate their own opinions when they feel the need to? I vie the Bible as the word of God, but it is also a very important historical document.
Ross, Yes not every part of evolution has been proven, but it has not been disproven by any known facts, unless you have come up with some new material, so what parts of evolution aren't proven? Also NO ID does not belong in school. ID involves faith and faith is not a way to think. I vie the bible as fantasy and also a historical text compared to Homers Iliad, not to be taken literally.

As for evolution being a fact, i can see why people say it is a fact, but i will not agree personally. Its subjective if you want to call it one. I will keep calling it a scientific Theory which is the closest thing to a fact, unlike christianity, science doesn't arrogantly call their claims absolutes, they humbly say this is the best we have so far.

By the way ID is just plain stupid. It is not even a hypothesis since it does not even fit into the NATURAL world, its supernatural right along with the boogie man and elves. :rolleyes: Once you take that leap of faith you are lost in an abyss of unreason. I don't know what extra sense you have that i do not, but i make due with what i have.

Feel free to bring up any scientific argument for DISproving evolution.

[Purity]

Many people in this world are stupid... Many stupid people in this world are nice people, because they were possibly un-inteligent enough to follow some aspects of the ' moral code', or they just dont know any better, where raised to be nice therefore due to stupidity it sticks with them...

either way your niceish ross_curfew not that i know u, but eh as someone mentioned you have a nice charictor.

anyway... just throwing a line saying yeah, you beleive in god? you love jesus? haha... fuck you buddy...

how can people be so fucking stupid...

[ross_curfew]

Do not refer to me as stupid when all you have to offer is an unexplained criticism of me as a person.You do not know me, and you have absolutely no right to slate me for something i believe to be true in every aspect of who I am, not by some sort of cultural brain-washing but by a personal experience with a living God. I don't knwo you either but to be honest, by throwing in immature comments like that you are in fact presenting yourself to me and no doubt many othes as a real cock. If you have something helpful to say, please go for it, I'd love to chat open-mindedly and hopefully be given the oppurtunity to share my own experiences with you.

Thank you

[ross_curfew]

Ross, Yes not every part of evolution has been proven, but it has not been disproven by any known facts, unless you have come up with some new material, so what parts of evolution aren't proven? Also NO ID does not belong in school. ID involves faith and faith is not a way to think. I vie the bible as fantasy and also a historical text compared to Homers Iliad, not to be taken literally.
Well, in the same way, creationist ideas have never been disproven. If they had been, they would not be accepted so widely as truth. Science, and maths are great things, but they CANNOT prove everything, only the physical and natural around us... and I believe there is more than the physical and natural around us...

[TheSnake]

But evolution is not a fact, it still a largely unproven theory, therefore it should be taught as a theory. If it is taught as fact it eventually leads to the 'brainwashing' you all disapprove of. Would you not agree that creationist ideas have a place in school, to allow children and young people to formulate their own opinions when they feel the need to? I vie the Bible as the word of God, but it is also a very important historical document.
What exactly do you mean by evolution being largely unproven theory?
Considering the vast amounts of evidence supporting the theory of evolution (and more importantly evolution per se) and what is says about ancestors of human and animals, I think it's quite safe to say that it happened pretty much like science is saying. Calling it just a theory, that should be taugh like one, is, to me, the same as calling the holocaust just a historical theory and asking that equal time be given to teaching 'theories' of the holocaust deniers. Or that equal time should be given to astrology alongside with astronomy.

I think it's important that people formulate their own opinions, but do you think it happens if they are constantly subjected to misinformation presented as 'the truth'?
Especially should be noted that creationism and ID are not on the same line with the theory of evolution. Presenting them as equal but alternative theories is entirely fallacious.

I cannot, but conclude that I have no doubt in my mind of the fact, that many of the proponents of ID are well aware of the unfoundedness of their claims, and yet they deliberately propagate their lies for what ever political or religious reasons they think they have for doing so.

[TheSnake]

Well, in the same way, creationist ideas have never been disproven.
You'd better take a look at talkorigins.org before making claims like that.
Index to creationist claims (http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/)

[Tenspace]

Are you a young earth creationist?
Do you believe evolution a reliable fact?
Do you believe science is a religion?
Do you believe there is actual evidence to support you god?
Do you know a man named Kent Hovind and if you do, do you think he has a point?
Do you think Intelligent Design should be taught in classroom settings?

Once we get past these little snags in your debrainwashing we'll get into why you make yourself believe in your god.
To answer your question...

I am very careful when trying to express an opinion on creation and evolution as I am still forming an opinion. I thoroughly believe however, that God creted the earth and that there was a set order and process to that. I do not trust carbon dating as a reliable way of giving the earth an age, the theory of carbon dating is riddled with mistakes. For example, it is possible to suggest that due to increased carbon levels on our planet in the last few hundred years (due mainly to large scale industrilisation), carbon dating becomes obsolete.
You're reaffirming my earlier point: your decision is based upon incomlete or inaccurate information about carbon dating. You may not think it is accurate or reliable, yet it is rigorously tested and verified by scientists. Read up on the fallacies behind the refutations of carbon dating. If you don't understand isotopes, chemical bonds and half-life (chemistry, not the video game), you might want to brush up on those as well.

As for evolution, I again do not regard it as a reliable theory. Obviously there is proof of adaptation on earth but we are yet to see one species simply jump to become another. Proof of adaptation does not prove evolution at all. I believe it is only regarded as 'truth' in today's society because it offers an alternative from creationist ideas, not because it actually holds the essence of truth.
Again, you're forming opinion with incomplete information. While you may question the validity of evolution, research scientists are using evolutionary theory every day in the laboratories of major government and private insitutions.

I think intelligent design should be presented as an option in schools, not a fact. People must decide themselves what to believe. Equally I am fed up with the theory of evolution being taught as fact. It is still a theory and is something that people must chose to believe. The teaching of intelligent design in schools has just as much of a place as the teaching of evolutionary theories. School children have the right to know both sides of the coin before they make up their minds.
Do you know the scientific meaning of the word theory? We have the theory of gravity, the theory of electromagnetism, the theory of evolution, the theory of cosmology, and many many others. Don't discount the word "Theory", or attempt to apply the layman's definition to a scientific object. That would be like me using the word "Passion" in a sexual sense to describe a religious object. Right word, wrong definition.

Should we teach alternative theories to gravity? How 'bout chemistry, or physics? That's what you're saying. Don't you realize that Darwinian Evolution is the cornerstone theory that supports biology?

I would appreciate it if you didn't approach me as someone who is brainwashed. Like you, I am curious for truth and I have discovered that in a real and personal God. I am no more brainwashed than you, please get passed your hatred of certain christians and view me as a normal human who is here to express an opinion.
If you're curious for the truth, then why do you deny truths that don't jibe with your worldview? Evolution is a truth, whether or not you choose to accept it. Intelligent design is biblical creationism in a labcoat with no objective, testable scientific theory to back it up.

By the way, don't pigeonhole all atheists into the same Christian hating category. Not all of us are calling you stupid - but if you come across quoting biblical verse as answers to the world's problems, you most likely will be labeled as brainwashed.

Also, don't ignore the good stuff. So many theists post here, and only reply to those portions of a topic that they can refute. They never even acknowledge the majority of what's said.

[Tenspace]

"You don't want to tell us what to believe, :breath: I'd love for you guys to experience God."
I love it. A complete contradiction. :lol:
Actually there is no contradiction in there at all. I was very careful to state that, although I would love to experience God as I have, that is your own descision and I am not here to condemn you of tell you what to believe. Sorry I didn't make that clearer
But you're still suggesting to us what to believe. And again, you make no mention of the fact that many of us were religious for far longer than you have been alive. We are very, very experienced with religion.

[Reverend Blasphemy]

Ross, Yes not every part of evolution has been proven, but it has not been disproven by any known facts, unless you have come up with some new material, so what parts of evolution aren't proven? Also NO ID does not belong in school. ID involves faith and faith is not a way to think. I vie the bible as fantasy and also a historical text compared to Homers Iliad, not to be taken literally.
Well, in the same way, creationist ideas have never been disproven. If they had been, they would not be accepted so widely as truth. Science, and maths are great things, but they CANNOT prove everything, only the physical and natural around us... and I believe there is more than the physical and natural around us...
Creationism cannot be disproven because it is not a testable hypothesis. In order for a conclusion to be viable within the scientific method, it must be testable. Google the term scientific method, and see what comes up. I respect your beliefs ross_curfew, but creationism does not belong in a science course.

For example: the world is here in all its beauty and wonder. So, god must have made it.

My socks disapppear from the dryer on a weekly basis. I always end up with one or two which lack a mate. So, elves are stealing them.

Testable hypotheses? Not so much...

[TheSnake]

Creationism cannot be disproven because it is not a testable hypothesis.
That's not quite true. Read some of the stuff from the link to talkorigins I posted. Some of the things creationists have proposed are really absurd and amusing to read.

[TheSnake]

A quick bite (http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI002.html):

Claim: Intelligent design has explanatory power, especially given Dembski's "explanatory filter." It accounts for a wide range of biological facts. This makes it scientific.
Source:
Dembski, William A., 2001. Is intelligent design testable? http://www.arn.org/docs/dembski/wd_isidtestable.htm
Response:

1. Merely accounting for facts does not make a theory scientific. Saying "it's magic" can account for any fact anywhere but is as far from science as you can get. A theory has explanatory power if facts can be deduced from it. No facts have ever been deduced from ID theory. The theory is equivalent to saying, "it's magic."

2. Dembski's explanatory filter requires the examination of an infinite number of other hypotheses -- even unknown ones -- to accept the design hypothesis. Thus it is impossible to apply. Intelligent design remains untestable and impossible to use in practice. Dembski himself has never rigorously applied his filter (Elsberry 2002).

3. "Intelligent" and "design" remain effectively undefined. A theory cannot have explanatory power if it is uncertain what the theory says in the first place.

[Tenspace]

But evolution is not a fact, it still a largely unproven theory, therefore it should be taught as a theory. If it is taught as fact it eventually leads to the 'brainwashing' you all disapprove of. Would you not agree that creationist ideas have a place in school, to allow children and young people to formulate their own opinions when they feel the need to? I vie the Bible as the word of God, but it is also a very important historical document.
References? Cites? Don't make blanket statements here without being able to back them up with research.

Here's what the scientific community has to say about evolution and creation.

"Except in the light of evolution, nothing in biology makes sense." - T. Dobzhansky

"Biology is the science. Evolution is the concept that makes biology unique. " - Jared Diamond

"Today, the theory of evolution is an accepted fact for everyone but a fundamentalist minority, whose objections are based not on reasoning but on doctrinaire adherence to religious principles. " - James D Watson

"The fundamentalists, by 'knowing' the answers before they start (examining evolution), and then forcing nature into the straitjacket of their discredited preconceptions, lie outside the domain of science-or of any honest intellectual inquiry." - Stephen Jay Gould

"If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction. "

"Evolution is not a force but a process. Not a cause but a law. " - John Morley

"We know evolution happened not because of transitional fossils such as A. natans but because of the convergence of evidence from such diverse fields as geology, paleontology, biogeography, comparative anatomy and physiology, molecular biology, genetics, and many more. " - Michael Shermer

"Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is the only workable explanation that has ever been proposed for the remarkable fact of our own existence, indeed the existence of all life wherever it may turn up in the universe. It is the only known explanation for the rich diversity of animals, pants, fungi and bacteria. " - John Maynard Smith

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - Edward O Wilson

Now, here's what the religious folk have to say about evolution:

"It's the lie of evolution that all man are just evolved and that they're all equal, and that all creatures are equal. " - Tim LaHaye

"Evolution's lie permeates and dominates modern thought in every field. That being the case, it follows inevitably that evolutionary thought is basically responsible for the lethally ominous political developments and the chaotic moral and social disintegrations that have been accelerating everywhere." - Henry Morris

"From our point of view, however, any interpretation of Genesis which accommodates the standard system of evolutionary geological ages is a clear-cut compromise with atheistic evolution, and it is very sad that Christians who profess to believe the Bible as the Word of God will not acknowledge this. " - Henry Morris

"There is a strong correlation between belief in evolution and liberal views on government control, pornography, prayer in schools, abortion, gun control, economic freedom, and even animal rights. " - Phyllis Schlafly

"Evolution shows that in the long run, if the superior mixes with the inferior, the product is halfway between, and inferior to what you started with in the original superior group - in other words, mongrelized. " - George L Rockwell

"Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it. ... Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory." - Jimmy Swaggart
You can form your own conclusions.

[TheSnake]

"We know evolution happened not because of transitional fossils such as A. natans but because of the convergence of evidence from such diverse fields as geology, paleontology, biogeography, comparative anatomy and physiology, molecular biology, genetics, and many more. " - Michael Shermer

I think that is an extremely good point. I do not know of any theory that could possibly draw all the evidence from those various different fields together in the way that theory of evolution does. The creationist drivel doesn't even come close, leaving gaping holes everywhere that are patched up with 'god-did-it'.

[ross_curfew]

"You don't want to tell us what to believe, :breath: I'd love for you guys to experience God."
I love it. A complete contradiction. :lol:
Actually there is no contradiction in there at all. I was very careful to state that, although I would love to experience God as I have, that is your own descision and I am not here to condemn you of tell you what to believe. Sorry I didn't make that clearer
But you're still suggesting to us what to believe. And again, you make no mention of the fact that many of us were religious for far longer than you have been alive. We are very, very experienced with religion.
But I am not talking about 'religion' here. I don't like to think of myself as part of a religion but part of a tangible relationship with God and those around me. I know that sounds really hippyish n all but it really isn't! I can't open a new window on this so I cant quote the verse but in James somewhere it talks about how 'their religion is worth nothing' referring to the religious priests and pharisees at the time. It goes on to say that true religion is caring for widows and orphans. I don't want to get really far from the point, but I'm just not religious person and I don't think that being 'expeienced' in religion is a good thing. In fact I don't think the worldly concept of religion should have a place in our culture. God has not called it's church to blindly rule and control, but to serve. I also don't believe that just because I am younger, I have less important or helpful view. I have the spirit of God inside me and it is by his grace that I have the oppurtunity to talk to you guys. When I say believe this, it is not a half-arsed thing that I havn't thought about. I have made the desiscion to dedicate my life to God and his will, out of personal experience, not from the words of one person or doctrinal writings, however powerful I believe the Bible to be.

[WITHTEETH]

Ross_Curfew, here is your chance to prove intelligent design. Tell us what god is, how he works, and how we can sense him. Get scientific.

Please do not use words like, love, compassion, mysterious, goodness, magic, poof.

[ross_curfew]

I also do not believe that all truth is held in the intelligence of humans, in science and maths. Therefore I draw on spiritual sources as well. I honestly am not a great scientist, and I have studied it as much as possible but I think your missing my points. By quoting scientists I am not suddenly going realise that God doesn't exist. If someone came up to you in the street and tried to explain to you that your closest friend didn't exist, you would turn them away without a second thought. In the same way, science cannot disprove God to me because I know him as my friend. Forget religious ways, my God is real and is my mate. He talks to me and I listen, I praise him, and talk to him and he hears me. I know that you will find that hard to believe or put it down to some reflex of the brain, but I know whole-heartedly know that God is not only existing but is in me and working in the world around us. Have any of you ever experienced something spiritual, be it of God or not?

God cannot be proven by science in the same way that the theory of evolution cannot be proven by pythagoras

[WITHTEETH]

OK Ross_Curfew, but does it strike you odd when you have to close your eyes just to see your friend?

[ross_curfew]

I know God is there just as much as you know the air you breathe is, if not even more so.

Plus I don't have to close my eyes to meet with God...

[TheSnake]

I have made the desiscion to dedicate my life to God and his will, out of personal experience, not from the words of one person or doctrinal writings, however powerful I believe the Bible to be.
Have you? If you had never heard of the Bible, would you still have dedicate your life to God? How do you decide what the will of God is, if you don't read it from the Bible (or some other holy book) or hear it from someone else?

[TheSnake]

And I don't think anyone here is trying to use science to prove that God doesn't exist. Rather, science shows that some beliefs about God must be wrong. And science can be used to show that God isn't needed to explain of how things are the way they are.

[ross_curfew]

I hear the will of God from many sources, one being the Bible. TheBible is of course there for use, but God also speaks to me directly in a way which I can relate to. How would you be an atheist unless some guy have told you that God isn't real. To form an opinion we must analyse lots of sources. In my personal life, the overiding factor is God's love for me and the oppurtunity to meet with him.

[WITHTEETH]

Ross_Curfew, do you believe in the devil too, does he talk to you also?

[ross_curfew]

I do indeed believe in the devil. And he does talk to me. But I tell him to leave and try my best not to listen to his lies.

[Tenspace]

But I am not talking about 'religion' here.

I'm not referring to the mechanisms of religion, or as a detached observer. I'm talking about a personal relationship with God.

Did my Beatles analogy make sense? You're preaching to the choir, so to speak - it's just that this choir member is tired of singing the fairytale songs.

I don't want to get really far from the point, but I'm just not religious person and I don't think that being 'expeienced' in religion is a good thing.
Then what about your future? You'll be more and more 'experienced' in religion every day. At some point, you'll have had enough of the experience of religion that you will possibly toss aside all that goes with religion, including God.

In fact I don't think the worldly concept of religion should have a place in our culture. God has not called it's church to blindly rule and control, but to serve. I also don't believe that just because I am younger, I have less important or helpful view. I have the spirit of God inside me and it is by his grace that I have the oppurtunity to talk to you guys. When I say believe this, it is not a half-arsed thing that I havn't thought about. I have made the desiscion to dedicate my life to God and his will, out of personal experience, not from the words of one person or doctrinal writings, however powerful I believe the Bible to be.
Personal experience? Care sharing? How much personal experience has a teenager acquired that they can reflect on objectively?

Okay, I'm not knocking teens, or pulling the same old, "I'm older and wiser" routine. I am older, yes, and if wisdom is knowledge acquired through time, then I am wiser at 45 than a teen at 16 (my son is 16, btw).

Let me turn you on to a now-defunct British rap metal band - they're called "One Minute Silence" - I would love for you to find a copy of their CD, "Buy Now, Saved Later" - great, great stuff.

You can catch their frontman, Yap, at spoken word performances in London. I think the website's www.planetyap.com - I bring this up because I continue to assert that you are intelligent and hungry for knowledge, but you're restricting yourself to knowledge filtered through a biblical worldview, which is unhealthy.

Print this out, take it to Yap, and buy him a coffee and open your ears.

[ross_curfew]

If your 16 year old son came home and told you he had become a christian, how would you react?

[TheSnake]

I hear the will of God from many sources, one being the Bible. TheBible is of course there for use, but God also speaks to me directly in a way which I can relate to.
Care to explain that to me? I've never been religious so I really don't know what you're talking about. Do you hear some kind of voice inside your head that tells you things?

How would you be an atheist unless some guy have told you that God isn't real. To form an opinion we must analyse lots of sources.
The real question is, how would I know of God, if no-one hadn't told me about it? If God is real, wouldn't I know of him even if no-one told me about him? As for being an atheist despite hearing about God, all the things I've heard simply don't add up. Everything makes a lot more sense if I think that God is a figment of human imagination.

In my personal life, the overiding factor is God's love for me and the oppurtunity to meet with him.
I'm not denying that you feel something, but surely you must see that if you claimed to feel that sort of love and connection with the Easter Bunny, you're parents would probably have your head checked. As far as I know, your experiences are not in anyway unique, but pretty common among all the religions in the world, regardless of what they think God is, or even if they don't believe in God (like Buddhists, who meditate and claim to feel a connection with the universe).

[WITHTEETH]

I wouldn't want to mold my son. I would want my son to become a complete individual, not going with the flock of sheep, if he picks christianity that is his choice, NOT mine. I will not change my view though just because he is a christian. I will not stop talking either. His reality, is his reality.

What do you expect us to do, make our sons submit themselves to become atheists? Make them get on there knees and bow in front of us, then open there mouths to recieve alcohol and a wafer. absurd.

[PanAtheist]

Do not refer to me as stupid
Thank you
You are INSANE!
And you're welcome!

[snap crafter]

Oh shew, I knew getting this girl to talk about evolution would open up her sources.

And on a side note... try not to quote mine atheists, they'll just skim over them.

But I am not talking about 'religion' here. I don't like to think of myself as part of a religion but part of a tangible relationship with God and those around me. I know that sounds really hippyish n all but it really isn't! I can't open a new window on this so I cant quote the verse but in James somewhere it talks about how 'their religion is worth nothing' referring to the religious priests and pharisees at the time. It goes on to say that true religion is caring for widows and orphans. I don't want to get really far from the point, but I'm just not religious person and I don't think that being 'expeienced' in religion is a good thing. In fact I don't think the worldly concept of religion should have a place in our culture. God has not called it's church to blindly rule and control, but to serve. I also don't believe that just because I am younger, I have less important or helpful view. I have the spirit of God inside me and it is by his grace that I have the oppurtunity to talk to you guys. When I say believe this, it is not a half-arsed thing that I havn't thought about. I have made the desiscion to dedicate my life to God and his will, out of personal experience, not from the words of one person or doctrinal writings, however powerful I believe the Bible to be.
Oh christian, you later went on to say that:

I also do not believe that all truth is held in the intelligence of humans, in science and maths. Therefore I draw on spiritual sources as well. I honestly am not a great scientist, and I have studied it as much as possible but I think your missing my points. By quoting scientists I am not suddenly going realise that God doesn't exist. If someone came up to you in the street and tried to explain to you that your closest friend didn't exist, you would turn them away without a second thought. In the same way, science cannot disprove God to me because I know him as my friend. Forget religious ways, my God is real and is my mate. He talks to me and I listen, I praise him, and talk to him and he hears me. I know that you will find that hard to believe or put it down to some reflex of the brain, but I know whole-heartedly know that God is not only existing but is in me and working in the world around us. Have any of you ever experienced something spiritual, be it of God or not?"
I was gonna wait and take apart your misconceptions about science and the world around you, but since your this 'moderate hippy' new age christian crap, I'll just get to the juicy part.

You have made yourself believe in your god. Take a step back and think for a minute... Keep thinking and don't say a word, don't even deny it yet... Now before you go on a rant about personal subjectiveness and your god, ask yourself why you STARTED believing in your god. Not why you do now mind you, but why you started.

I'm gonna take a wild swing here, I'm guessing that either you were part of a religious household, or that one day you were depressed and someone you respected presented the case for god. You being in a weakened state took this in and made yourself want to experience him. That's why christians say you have to want to experience god. The same way a highly suggestible person, if introduced in the right way, can be made to do certain actions. If I remember correctly, there have been cases where, they believe they have siesures, talking to dead relatives, even one case I remember of someone having a perfect stigmata (though in the hand instead of the wrist) because they went to sunday school.

So once you pin down the reason why you started believing in this god of yours, now think why you still experience it? Is it mayhap that you find a certain pleasure when you get attention by talking of god? Maybe your still in this weakened state and are holding for dear-life on that one suggestion.

In closing, if you had never read the bible, no one had ever mentioned of a single god, or of this man you call Jesus/Yahweh/Jehovah/lord, you would not believe in this mighty all-powerful being, more likely than not, you would believe in multiple gods like your pagan ancestors that preceeded your mighty jewish fathers. Probably derived from such sources as good crop seasons, good hunts, bad weather, deaths/murders, sun/moon circulation and the like.

I want to hope you will step back and look at this in a relative manner, think outside the box as it were. Is that hoping too much atheists?

[Choobus]

If your 16 year old son came home and told you he had become a christian, how would you react?
First I would perform a christocism wherein I would tie him up and beat him with a bible ro rid him of the father, the son and finally the holy spirit. Then I would beat him some more for punitive reasons. If he did not rescind the jesus christ and (shit on a bible to prove it) I would then threaten to call St. Teabag and have him come over and assfuck him until he relented. If this did not work I actually would call St. Teabag.

:mad:

http://ravingatheist.com/forum/img/uploads/exorcism1.jpg

[Choobus]

Do not refer to me as stupid
Thank you
You are INSANE!
And you're welcome!
Ross, since you profess to believe that some jewish dude getting hammered 2000 years ago has something to do with you you are, by definition, an idiot and so calling you stupid is being nice. Don't be so ungrateful you little prick.

[snap crafter]

Do not refer to me as stupid
Thank you
You are INSANE!
And you're welcome!
Ross, since you profess to believe that some jewish dude getting hammered 2000 years ago has something to do with you you are, by definition, an idiot and so calling you stupid is being nice. Don't be so ungrateful you little prick.
Atheists, please, don't insult just yet, wait for her to pull up tired arguements for god first, then she is open for the picking, but your not going to get through to a christian by blatantly insulting before she does.

[Techno]

Also, don't ignore the good stuff. So many theists post here, and only reply to those portions of a topic that they can refute. They never even acknowledge the majority of what's said.
I would take Tenspace's advice, As you have not as of yet.

[PanAtheist]

Atheists, please, don't insult just yet, wait for her to pull up tired arguements for god first, then she is open for the picking, but your not going to get through to a christian by blatantly insulting before she does.
"get through"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"insult"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Theists" have decided not to give a damn about any of the consequences of their reckless abandonment of sanity.

I shall tell that truth, and I shall tell that truth to everyone!

[snap crafter]

Atheists, please, don't insult just yet, wait for her to pull up tired arguements for god first, then she is open for the picking, but your not going to get through to a christian by blatantly insulting before she does.
"get through"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"insult"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Theists" have decided not to give a damn about any of the consequences of their reckless abandonment of sanity.

I shall tell that truth, and I shall tell that truth to everyone!
Hmm, good point, have at it then.

[Tenspace]

If your 16 year old son came home and told you he had become a christian, how would you react?
Well, he wouldn't just "come home christian" - it's not like a new haircut. I talk and interact with my son daily. He's firmly looking forward to a science/technology careeer. He has critical thinking skills, and is not encumbered with a parent who makes religion mandatory.

If, however, he came to this decision over time and much thought, I would support him. He's my son, yes, but he is first his own man.

[ross_curfew]

What you say here angers me a lot. I have not harmed you as a person. You have no reason to insult me. I did at first think that their were decent people on this forum. However, the last few posts seem to demonstrate that you yourselves have no reasoning for your insults other than a petty anger which seems bottled up for years.
I was brought up in a Christian household, and I praise God that he blessed with that. You may tell me over and over again that I am an idiot, or am stupid to have such beliefs. But that is a lie, and I will not let it discourage me.
I believe that making a choice to allow God to enter my life was the most sane thing I ever did. I have never regretted it, and He has always carried me through. New age hippy? I like the sound of that actually. But I am not here to bow to a post-modernist culture, but to live as Jesus would want me to live. You are in fact the ones who must step outside your box, and realise that their is more to life.

[snap crafter]

What you say here angers me a lot. I have not harmed you as a person. You have no reason to insult me. I did at first think that their were decent people on this forum. However, the last few posts seem to demonstrate that you yourselves have no reasoning for your insults other than a petty anger which seems bottled up for years.
I was brought up in a Christian household, and I praise God that he blessed with that. You may tell me over and over again that I am an idiot, or am stupid to have such beliefs. But that is a lie, and I will not let it discourage me.
I believe that making a choice to allow God to enter my life was the most sane thing I ever did. I have never regretted it, and He has always carried me through. New age hippy? I like the sound of that actually. But I am not here to bow to a post-modernist culture, but to live as Jesus would want me to live. You are in fact the ones who must step outside your box, and realise that their is more to life.
I'm sorry, was I one of the ones that insulted you? I was trying very hard to stay formal.

Seems I've struck a cord, and that is why you feel insulted. Doesn't feel good that you generalized with the populace does it?

I haven't called you stupid or idiot, I have called you weak, which is what this reply seems to signify.

You see, you completely ignored my post didn't you? You allow an imaginary friend to talk to you, but it is the most sane thing you ever did? How has he carried you through? Isn't all this just what most people call either intuition or common sense? why add mysticism?

I'm sorry, but your within the box dear girl. You seem confused what the box is exactly... Research things, your going on the conclusion that there is a god, and that that feeling you get deep inside when you think about it is him talking to you. That isn't god, that's your chemical response, making you feel better because that's what you want to happen.

Why is it that the christians revel in a labeled name? Is it the martyrdom effect?

[TheSnake]

What you say here angers me a lot. I have not harmed you as a person. You have no reason to insult me.
This forum is mostly unmoderated, so people can post what they want. Obviously some people will insult those supporting differing views. Simply ignore them if you don't wish to reply to them.

[Cap'n Awesome]

Echoing Snake here, Ross, please ignore the atheists who don't want to debate and/or just say something like "You're a christian?!?! Idiot, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE FUCKED IN THE ASS??"

My question for you is, if you were raised in a Muslim country, do you think that you would still be a Christian?

[PanAtheist]

What you say here angers me a lot.
I did at first think that their were decent people on this forum.
It is *so* indecent to publically utter the truth about Christians and their "Christianity"!

Hello?
Ross!

HELLO!!!!!!!!

I am a person that does not play the games of

(1) pretending that the outrageous absurdities of the Bible and the tenets of Christianity don't exist, and
(2) pretending that "Christians" have never seen these absurdities
(3) pretending that "Christians" don't actually really know that (as it is absurd) that it has to be rubbish.
(4) pretending that they are believers, rather than - what they actually are - people who don't give a damn that it has to be false.

I am a person who does not play that "BIG" GAME, of pretending that those absurdities aren't there, and pretending that everyone else hasn't seen them as well!

And so I don't give a damn about your surging melodramatic pseudo-feelings.

Because you are outrageously reckless of a fundamental common need of humanity: VERACITY !

Welcome to the new world Ross!
One day you will wake up and find yourself *surrounded* by "indecent" people in your real physical life, and who won't hold back, and *will* respond *appropriately* to this outrageous behaviour of yours!

... And who won't pretend that your *recklessness* requires any "sympathy" or "understanding" or that you need to be "helped", or "saved from yourself",
but will treat it is *as recklessness*, and you *as* a person who hasn't given a damn about the consequences of your abandonment of sanity, and your reckless abandonments of reason.

[I can see how you wrongly assessed these forums though!
And you didn't expect monsters with teeth, to come out of the walls! :-) ]

[calpurnpiso]

What you say here angers me a lot. I have not harmed you as a person. You have no reason to insult me. I did at first think that their were decent people on this forum. However, the last few posts seem to demonstrate that you yourselves have no reasoning for your insults other than a petty anger which seems bottled up for years.
I was brought up in a Christian household, and I praise God that he blessed with that. You may tell me over and over again that I am an idiot, or am stupid to have such beliefs. But that is a lie, and I will not let it discourage me.
I believe that making a choice to allow God to enter my life was the most sane thing I ever did. I have never regretted it, and He has always carried me through. New age hippy? I like the sound of that actually. But I am not here to bow to a post-modernist culture, but to live as Jesus would want me to live. You are in fact the ones who must step outside your box, and realise that their is more to life.
If a person is HIV+ would it be an insult if one points this out, recomending a physician who has developed a new method to treat this disease? If a person suffers from schizophrenia accepting OBVIOUS delusions as if they were a reality would it be an insult to point this out?. I was also brought up in a Christian Catholic infected family, attended CC infected schools, have CC infected friends and was born in a CC infected country. If one has a healthy neurological network that can shed off the Christ-psychosis induced delusions, then the result would be as having been cured from HIV !

Your affliction is not unique, it happens to ALL people that have succumbed to all forms of religious-psychosis induced delusions due to having susceptible brains to this neurological disorder. The most important thing is AWARENESS. Once you realize you're affected the cure will be at hand. This devastating mental illness erodes the logic centers of the brain, remember that. I suggest doing research on this neurological anomaly nobody seems to notice, you'll be doing yourself the greatest favor ever...:)

[PanAtheist]

I suggest doing research on this neurological anomaly nobody seems to notice, you'll be doing yourself the greatest favor ever...:)
I suggest that you, cal, do some research on science.
Hypothesis, until proven theory!
HELLO?!!!

[Yesusfriend]

Cal I really think you need to do some research on your “theory” it seems a little lacking sorry if this was offensive I’m just tired of it. I bet all the atheists are to.

Well Ross how’s it going. You’re not the only theist on this sight so take hart. But I don’t really think very many of these people really want to know what we have to say.

I haven’t taken a lot of time to read what your written here but be strong and compassionate and ignore the insults thought they wont stop coming.

[Choobus]

yesusfiend, do you do anal?

contrary to your pevious statement, I really want to know what you have to say. :P

[ross_curfew]

Yeah Cal be careful. What you demonstrate is a total faith in something unproven by science... a bit of a religion if u ask me...

[PanAtheist]

One noted characteristic of "theists" who attend these forums, is to totally ignore or dismiss anything said to them that is blatantly on-the-nail, and undercuts their whole "belief" charade.

As, ross, you have ignored my first comment (http://ravingatheist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=44914#p44914), how about actually acknowledging it, and then totally dismissing it out-of-hand? :-)

[ross_curfew]

I acknowledged your comment first time round. As you say, it is a choice, a choice which I have chosen to make.

[PanAtheist]

I have just been back and checked, and, ross, NO YOU DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE IT AT ALL.
You "theist" folks are so flexible with the truth!!!!!!!!!!
(Of course, you don't lie ;-)

[ross] Be the best you can be,
OR
"live" as if the outrageous absurdities of Christianity and the Bible, and the wickednesses of "the LORD God" and "Jesus" and "the Bible" are goodness.

It's a choice.
As you say, it is a choice, a choice which I have chosen to make
.

Indeed!
My point is that you have chosen the second!

[PanAtheist]

I am a big fan of this post (http://ravingatheist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=45367#p45367) as well, which again, you have, unhappily, not had the time to give me the courtesy of acknowledging.

How about giving us all a 100% genuine reaction to that, and everything it contains?

There is good stuff there! :-)

[ross_curfew]

Again I read it before...

Hello?

HELLO


1. Its great to have an introduction to who you are PanAtheist, nice to meet you too

2. I look forward to the day I wake up and experience a matrix style episode of 'the real world'.

3. One day you will wake up and realise that there is more to the real world you are a part of. It is there and real, sure enough but it holds you back from your true calling. One day the stuff around you, the pursuit of worldly happiness will seem meaningless, because at the end of the day its just going to disappear into nothing when you die anyway.

[ross_curfew]

I know your point was that I had chosen the second. But just because you think its wrong and I don't, that does not mean I have not acknowledged your post. I'm not perfect, I don't do everything right and I'm sure I've lied before and I wouldn't put it past my human nature to lie again. I do however try not to. And I was not before.

[calpurnpiso]

I suggest doing research on this neurological anomaly nobody seems to notice, you'll be doing yourself the greatest favor ever...:)
I suggest that you, cal, do some research on science.
Hypothesis, until proven theory!
HELLO?!!!
AHHH....so you do not believe in the "theory' of gravity?....I do not see you floating into space?...though it would be great i fthe Christ-psychotics would....:)

Haven't you heard of intelligent Falling?.... it is in the Onion,,,LOL...

from: http://www.ocnus.net/cgi-bin/exec/view.cgi?archive=76&num=19737

______________________________________________

"We just want the best possible education for Kansas' kids," Burdett said.

Proponents of Intelligent Falling assert that the different theories used by secular physicists to explain gravity are not internally consistent. Even critics of Intelligent Falling admit that Einstein's ideas about gravity are mathematically irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. This fact, Intelligent Falling proponents say, proves that gravity is a theory in crisis.

"Let's take a look at the evidence," said ECFR senior fellow Gregory Lunsden."In Matthew 15:14, Jesus says, 'And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing about some gravity making them fall—just that they will fall. Then, in Job 5:7, we read, 'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upwards.' If gravity is pulling everything down, why do the sparks fly upwards with great surety? This clearly indicates that a conscious intelligence governs all falling."

Critics of Intelligent Falling point out that gravity is a provable law based on empirical observations of natural phenomena. Evangelical physicists, however, insist that there is no conflict between Newton's mathematics and Holy Scripture.

"Closed-minded gravitists cannot find a way to make Einstein's general relativity match up with the subatomic quantum world," said Dr. Ellen Carson, a leading Intelligent Falling expert known for her work with the Kansan Youth Ministry. "They've been trying to do it for the better part of a century now, and despite all their empirical observation and carefully compiled data, they still don't know how."

[calpurnpiso]

Cal I really think you need to do some research on your “theory” it seems a little lacking sorry if this was offensive I’m just tired of it. I bet all the atheists are to.

Well Ross how’s it going. You’re not the only theist on this sight so take hart. But I don’t really think very many of these people really want to know what we have to say.

I haven’t taken a lot of time to read what your written here but be strong and compassionate and ignore the insults thought they wont stop coming.
Hmmm..if the shoe fits.....

Tell me, don't ALL Christians accept incredible retarded DELUSIONS ( Resurrection, sin, saving with blood, souls that go to heaven or a hell, floating angels, restless spirits, haunting demons, witches, possesed people etc) as if they were FACTS? Don't you accept this as FACT and the TRUTH?

What's the DIFFERENCE between thiese beliefs and those of people suffering from schizophrenia, temporal lobe epilepsy, dementia, or drug abuse disorders? Is there any? Aren't they almost IDENTICAL in delusions accepted as reality belief?. Why would it be an INSULT to point these FACTS out?.........:)

[Tenspace]

What you say here angers me a lot. I have not harmed you as a person. You have no reason to insult me. I did at first think that their were decent people on this forum. However, the last few posts seem to demonstrate that you yourselves have no reasoning for your insults other than a petty anger which seems bottled up for years.
I was brought up in a Christian household, and I praise God that he blessed with that. You may tell me over and over again that I am an idiot, or am stupid to have such beliefs. But that is a lie, and I will not let it discourage me.
I believe that making a choice to allow God to enter my life was the most sane thing I ever did. I have never regretted it, and He has always carried me through. New age hippy? I like the sound of that actually. But I am not here to bow to a post-modernist culture, but to live as Jesus would want me to live. You are in fact the ones who must step outside your box, and realise that their is more to life.
Who is angering you, Ross? Just ignore them. As mentioned, this board is pretty free. I don't think we've ever kicked anyone off.

Calling you ignorant and calling you an idiot are two different things. Take it for what it's worth, but the first step in overcoming any addiction, whether ignorance or heroin, is realizing you're in denial. :) And ignorance is a lot easier to cure. It only takes a once a week visit to the local public library.

[WITHTEETH]

Cals idea sounds right to me. Has it ever been tested by science. Proven or disproven? Are there any links to the status of this research?

Many credible scientists believe this idea, atheist Richard Dawkins to name one who coined meme's.

[Tenspace]

3. One day you will wake up and realise that there is more to the real world you are a part of. It is there and real, sure enough but it holds you back from your true calling. One day the stuff around you, the pursuit of worldly happiness will seem meaningless, because at the end of the day its just going to disappear into nothing when you die anyway.
Using that logic, I should never go to a movie, because it's just going to end.

Before you accuse others of having no meaning in their life, you best investigate whether that statement is true, else you risk bearing false witness.

[PanAtheist]

Blimey,
ross,
you weren't kidding about the "ramble" part.

[PanAtheist]

Dearest cal,
I am sorry for not explicitly stating what I was refering to.
That would have been "HIBV".

And, do you even read my posts?
I ask as you seem to be taking up a lot of space in preaching to me about things very similar to what I already have expressed!

Surely, I won't be at all offended if you didn't!
I certainly skim yours at high speed.
And I don't mean to be rude, as they are *very* entertaining, and I mean that sincerely!
It's just that, funnily enough, I got the jist, several weeks ago, and skimming quickly now works very well.

Heck, I know I repeat myself too!

[PanAtheist]

Ross, you have written as if
READ = ACKNOWLEDGE

As if ...

Hello?
HELLO!

They are different words: completely different!

A bit like "goodness" being completely different to "killing all the firstborn male children of a nation" and being completely different to "ordering a man to kill his goodly son", and being completely different to "drowning nearly all the land-life of the entire world".

It's
As if ...
As if ...
As if ...
"You are insane!"
Who'd have thought?

[Choobus]

no offence ross curfew, but what country are you from? Do you have any kind of education? How old are you?

[ross_curfew]

I'm from the UK, I am 17 and in my final year of A levels studying English Literature, music and Media Studies.

[PanAtheist]

It's
As if ...
As if ...
As if ...
"You don't care about seeing sense, making sense, practising sense"
"And don't give a *damn* it you don't make any sense at all!!!!"
You, ross, practise outrageous shamelessness in abandoning sanity!

And your awards, for this, will be stacked up high in heaven!


It *so* figures that you aren't doing science!

I hear that there are things called planes that can take you to a New World!
How about it? :-)

[Choobus]

I'm from the UK, I am 17 and in my final year of A levels studying English Literature, music and Media Studies.
Media studies! I was on a plane from Paris to New York this summer and we had to go via london where I picked up a newspaper called the Daily Mail. In it was an article in which is said A levels (whatever they are) had been systematically dumbed down for the last 10 years to make test scores look better, and that many of the top quality universities now had their own entrance exams. It cited communications studies and media studies as examples of bogus courses that were just there for grade inflation. I am not making this up.

Are you applying to university? If so, which ones?

[ross_curfew]

Haha the Daily Mail. Fascist right-wing paper! i wouldn't trust anything it says, for a balanced slightly left of centre British newspaper I'd go with the Independent. Well when choosing my courses I tried to balance them a bit. For A levels you take four subjects in your first year and then drop one in your second. I'm generally quite a creative person and although I did well in my maths and science, I found them hard and unenjoyable.

Media studies, is interesting and when balanced with other courses is fine, I can see where your coming from though.
To be honest, not being a scientist doesn't help on these forums because you all come back at me with stuff I don't understand. Now, if you were to express yourself through poetry or music... :P

At the moment I'm thinking of going to Nottingham University, probably to study English studies, a wide course covering, language, literature, drama etc. This could be combined with another course such as Philosophy and Theology. I'm sure you'd all be very happy to know that much of the Theology course would take a critical view of the Bible. For this I'd need 2 As and B...

[Choobus]

Let me direect you to Ghoulslime's "sonnet for an atheist " thread is you want to hear his sentiments expressed in poetry.

The daily mail did seem a bit right wing. It had many pages devoted to "scrounging asylum seekers"

[Tenspace]

To be honest, not being a scientist doesn't help on these forums because you all come back at me with stuff I don't understand. Now, if you were to express yourself through poetry or music... :P
Don't assume we're all scientists. There are a few here, but not a majority. My background is information technology/computer science and music production/management.

But many of us do have a hunger for knowledge. If someone would have told me, when I was a teenager, that I would be studying physics and biology as a hobby, I would've laughed in their face. :)

[snap crafter]

I'm from the UK, I am 17 and in my final year of A levels studying English Literature, music and Media Studies.
Jesus Christ of later day saints! no wonder you have no logical reasoning or backing to most of what you say! It's all about 'emotion' and 'there's more to life than the physical (which I really disagree with)' get some backbone ya freakin' hippy!

*sidenote* Why have you ignored my posts ross? Is it possible you don't want to face that demon called doubt dwelling within you?

[oppie]

What used to be witchcraft and evil workings, is now science and medicine. Many a good witch died at the hands of frightened and confused people of faith. Trust evolution, "Save a Witch".

[ross_curfew]

Many a good Christian died at the hands of frightened and confused people of faith. The Church burned people at the stake for having the Bible in their own language. The only bible allowed was the doctered latin Bible, changed to give power to the state. The Church got really messed up, which is why there are so many really strange and Christians, like Katia!

[ross_curfew]

As for scrounging asylum seekers, thats usually the headline. "Go away dying refugees we don't want you in our superior nation."

[snap crafter]

As for scrounging asylum seekers, thats usually the headline. "Go away dying refugees we don't want you in our superior nation."
Is that not what the US does often? I'm thinking that cuba is a prime example of that.

Why are you avoiding me ross? Why won't you face me, prove to me your god, ask him to touch me in whatever way he wishes, bring it on holy man.

[Choobus]

Ross has to finish his homework, and he probably wants to jack off as well (even though it is a sin)

[ross_curfew]

*sidenote* Why have you ignored my posts ross? Is it possible you don't want to face that demon called doubt dwelling within you?
If I'm honest, there have been real moments of doubt over the last few days. However like most people, I believe that to form a worthy opinion you must acknowledge both sides of any argument. I have looked at many of your websites, spoken to you on different threads etc. I have also spoken to some Christian friends around me (I have chosen this option rather than looking at Christian websites because I disagree with many of them). After this I still have the opinion that the Bible is truth, that God is true and that God is not just distant but living among us in the form of his spirit. You call me weak and yet you fail to acknowledge that there is more to life than what your five senses tell you.

To be honest, part of the reason I havn't replied to many of your posts (sorry for that) is because I have seen you posting on other threads and realised that to argue with you on the existance of my God takes a great deal of effort and research. I don't have that time! I will post as much as i can and I hope you can find truth in some of it. Otherwise you will see my most recent posts on these links....

http://ravingatheist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1750&p=7

http://ravingatheist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1849&p=1

Sorry if I disappointed you

[TheSnake]

I believe that to form a worthy opinion you must acknowledge both sides of any argument.
There are usually more than two sides to everything.

[ross_curfew]

I agree, change that to 'all' sides of an argument. You can form a seemingly good opinion with 2 sides. Although perhaps not as 'worthy' as someone who has acknowledged ALL sides of an argument, if that is at all possible.

[Tenspace]

Yeah, there's your side, my side, and the truth. :D

[calpurnpiso]

Many a good Christian died at the hands of frightened and confused people of faith. The Church burned people at the stake for having the Bible in their own language. The only bible allowed was the doctered latin Bible, changed to give power to the state. The Church got really messed up, which is why there are so many really strange and Christians, like Katia!
per ignorationem an incurian? ..per utramque ut videtur!

Why don't you get EDUCATED? The FIRST ORIGINAL Babble was the Catholic Christian Vulgate ( ca 360. ) and it was MODIFIED to suit the advancing fairy tales of the time, with the CHURCH COUNCILS. Protestant anti Catholic ideas would NOT arrive in the scene till the 15th Century, becoming independent Christian sects with the reformer Luther in the 16th Century opening a Christ-psychosis pandora's box!. Here LEARN:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/8920/churchcouncils/Ecum04.htm