Suicide and Christianity

[TheSnake]

I was just watching CSI. A kid murdered his sister. He could've killed himself instead, but he didn't because suicide is an unforgivable sin.
What are your views on this, from a theological perspective? If the kid had decided that either he or her sister must die by his hand, which choice is morally better? Which one is more likely to send the kid to Hell?
(I'm well aware that from an atheist point of view this just shows the stupidity of religion, so I'm not asking that.)

[Rhinoqulous]

I'm much more concerned about the stupidity of CSI. That's a horrible show. All fluff and no substance.

[TheSnake]

I'm much more concerned about the stupidity of CSI. That's a horrible show. All fluff and no substance.
I guess you're right, though it still is one of my favourite shows. What's a good show then?

[JimVonRamen]

Always been a fan of NYPD Blue, myself.

[Rhinoqulous]

I'm much more concerned about the stupidity of CSI. That's a horrible show. All fluff and no substance.
I guess you're right, though it still is one of my favourite shows. What's a good show then?
I prefer Law and Order as far as crime dramas go. The Wire is really good (HBO), and the Shield(FX) is OK too. I'm not sure what access you have to these programs in Finland, though. I'd be interested to know what shows you get in Finland.

JVR: Yeah, I liked NYPD Blue, but I haven't watched it in years. I don't even know if it's still on the air (as far as new shows go).

[The Kenosha Kid]

I'm much more concerned about the stupidity of CSI. That's a horrible show. All fluff and no substance.
WTF? Sure, there are problems, both in terms of the characters and the scientific specifics (a la MacGyver). And yes, the dialogue isn't the greatest (a la, well, once again, MacGyver). But how many shows have promoted the scientific method with such consistency (except for, maybe, MacGyver)? Everything about Grissom [the main dude with the beard (lately)] screams scientific process. The show is constantly debunking crazy theories by examining them scientifically.

In fact, if I remember correctly (I'll have to dig out the back issues), a recent issue of Free Inquiry or Skeptical Inquirer mentioned CSI as one of the best shows because of its promotion of science.

Caveat Emptor: CSI Miami sucks.

MacGyv...um, I mean, The Kenosha Kid.








P.S. MacGyver can have my babies!!!!

[Choobus]

It's good that CSI and its clones are educating the criminal classes. Now they know how to avoid detection prompting better forensic techniques, which leads to more interesting CSI type shows, so it's win win

[JimVonRamen]

Rhinoqulous: NYPD Blue finally went off the air earlier this year. Sad day in TV history, for me at least. The show had a lot of cliche that it built up over the years, and it's hard to support the constant imagery of police brutality, but I really love it.

[The Kenosha Kid]

I was just watching CSI. A kid murdered his sister. He could've killed himself instead, but he didn't because suicide is an unforgivable sin.
What are your views on this, from a theological perspective? If the kid had decided that either he or her sister must die by his hand, which choice is morally better? Which one is more likely to send the kid to Hell?
(I'm well aware that from an atheist point of view this just shows the stupidity of religion, so I'm not asking that.)
Snake, "the name's Plisken"

I haven't seen that episode, strangely enough. Considering your synopsis, I would have to say that, if there were a god, and if he or she were just, I think that killing the sister would be the best situation. If you kill your sis, then you know that she goes to heaven because she had nothing to do with it. If you kill yourself, then there's a 50/50 shot that you go to hell, and since your sis saw you off yourself, she just may off herself too, in which case she's doing the brimstone shuffle with you.

Just my 1/50 of a dollar,

The Kenosha Kid

edited the misspelling of "Plisken."

[The Kenosha Kid]

It's good that CSI and its clones are educating the criminal classes. Now they know how to avoid detection prompting better forensic techniques, which leads to more interesting CSI type shows, so it's win win
There seems to be sarcasm here. Are you saying something against us in the criminal classes?

The Kenosha Kid

[Choobus]

Choobus is NEVER sarcastic. Choobus decries sarcasm and agrees that it is the lowest form of wit.

[TheSnake]

I prefer Law and Order as far as crime dramas go. The Wire is really good (HBO), and the Shield(FX) is OK too. I'm not sure what access you have to these programs in Finland, though. I'd be interested to know what shows you get in Finland.
JVR: Yeah, I liked NYPD Blue, but I haven't watched it in years. I don't even know if it's still on the air (as far as new shows go).
I like Law and Order too. I haven't seen Wire, I don't think they show that here. They started showing Shield about a year ago, that's a pretty good show, I also liked Oz. There are basically five national channels in Finland, they probably show all the most popular TV-shows from USA. If you want to see for yourself what's on right now here's a link: http://www.telkku.com/ (it also shows the programs for next two weeks), though some of the names of foreign shows are translated into Finnish, like "Third Rock from the Sun" is "Kolmas kivi auringosta".
There are few other free channels, some of them foreign, but they're not really that interesting.

[TheSnake]

Snake, "the name's Plisken"
I've seen that movie, it wasn't too good. The Thing was much better.
I haven't seen that episode, strangely enough. Considering your synopsis, I would have to say that, if there were a god, and if he or she were just, I think that killing the sister would be the best situation. If you kill your sis, then you know that she goes to heaven because she had nothing to do with it. If you kill yourself, then there's a 50/50 shot that you go to hell, and since your sis saw you off yourself, she just may off herself too, in which case she's doing the brimstone shuffle with you.
The kid had leukemia and his sister needed to donate blood and bone marrow and would've needed to donate a kidney too, so the kid wanted to put a stop to that. He could've killed himself, but he killed his sister instead. His sister wouldn't have killed herself.
From a Christian perspective, if the kid had to either kill himself or his sister, which is better.
1. Kill the sister and she goes to Heaven. Jesus forgives you, so you follow her soon.
2. Kill yourself, you go to Hell, because you don't have time to repent for your sin, before you die or if you're Catholic, you won't be forgiven in any case.
Is this correct?

[Baphomet]

back on topic...

This kinda relates to abortion. If you abort babies, christians think they go to heaven. If you give them the chance to turn into babies, and then people, they run the risk of going to hell.
So why risk sending more people to hell?

Christians say suicide is a sin because it is murder, at least, that's what they've told me.
Also, I've heard that it's because it interferes with god's plan or something. That means everything is predetermined, and yet it is somehow possible to change the will of an omnipotent god...

[The Kenosha Kid]

I like Law and Order too. I haven't seen Wire, I don't think they show that here. They started showing Shield about a year ago, that's a pretty good show, I also liked Oz. There are basically five national channels in Finland, they probably show all the most popular TV-shows from USA. If you want to see for yourself what's on right now here's a link: http://www.telkku.com/ (it also shows the programs for next two weeks), though some of the names of foreign shows are translated into Finnish, like "Third Rock from the Sun" is "Kolmas kivi auringosta".
There are few other free channels, some of them foreign, but they're not really that interesting.
This is off-topic, but...
So Snake, how are things in Finland, generally? I live in Kansas, USA, where the state Board of Education just hired an Education Commissioner that has no experience in education. Instead, he is an outspokenly right-wing lawyer who has gone to court to A: get vouchers for private religious schools and B: reduce the public education funds to reduce taxes. My wife and I are actively and seriously looking for somewhere else to live. Is Finland any better?

The Kenosha Kid

[Rhinoqulous]

I've heard that Judges and Prosecutors are having a problem with the "CSI Effect", where jurors are voting not-guilty based on the fact that the prosecution is not presenting the type of fancy scientific "evidence" they see in shows like CSI. So, while the show might be doing a good in promoting the scientific method, it may be creating an unreliable standard that the still un-educated public is beginning to hold the judicial system too.

And five channels? Ugh. That's one of the nice things private industry can give you, satellite television (with 400 channels of complete and utter crap).

Now, everyone, back to the topic of suicide.

Rhinoq

[Rhinoqulous]

Oh, and the Kenosha Kid, MacGyver rules.

[The Kenosha Kid]

Snake, "the name's Plisken"
I've seen that movie, it wasn't too good. The Thing was much better.
Okay now, there was a bunch of theological mumbo-jumbo mentioned in this post, but this pisses me off more than the idea of Carico spitting instead of swallowing. The Thing was better than Escape from LA? WTF? Which movie had Bruce Campbell? Which movie featured the government executing or exiling all atheists? Sheesh.

The Kenosha Kid

[The Kenosha Kid]

Oh, and the Kenosha Kid, MacGyver rules.
Now this is an intelligent conversation. Angus MacGyver was the most awesome television character ever to grace the small screen. Yes, the show jumped the shark when he got Uncle Harry's '57 Chevy Nomad, but when the Jeep came back, it was once again one of the greatest shows ever.

The Kenosha Kid

[TheSnake]

Quick answers to the off-topic stuff.
So Snake, how are things in Finland, generally?
Pretty good I think. Education system is one of the best in the world according to international studies. Kids get proper food at schools. Taxes are a bit high, but then you get all kinds of benefits in exchange or you're supposed to anyway. It seems to be a pretty hot topic in politics right now. Comparably little crime. Most people speak at least a little bit of English, so you don't necessarily need to learn the language. (Of course it can also make learning the language hard for foreigners too.) Foreigners often see Finnish people as somewhat introverted, but hospitable.
The Thing was better than Escape from LA? WTF? Which movie had Bruce Campbell? Which movie featured the government executing or exiling all atheists?
USA's most expensive real estate turned into a prison and a guy who calls himself Snake, need I say more. (My username is of course different, because it's clever. ;) )
So, while the show might be doing a good in promoting the scientific method, it may be creating an unreliable standard that the still un-educated public is beginning to hold the judicial system too.
What do you expect when laymen get to decide in court? Personally I don't like the idea of a jury at all. It's like picking people from the street to do inspections on nuclear power plants or air planes for 'fairness' sake.
And five channels? Ugh. That's one of the nice things private industry can give you, satellite television (with 400 channels of complete and utter crap).
How many channels do you think there's audience for in a country of five million? (Three of the channels are private by the way. Two are government funded and they tend to have all the really useful programs, plus they have no commercials.) Seems like the number of channels per person are about the same in USA and Finland. Of course a satellite receiver gets you more channels and there are some cable channels that you have to pay for to get them.

[TheSnake]

Do any Christians or ex-Christians have answers to the questions in my original post?

[Baphomet]

Probably not, seeing as you guys went off topic...