Iraq, where terrorism is a religion

[Sandy]

I have given up on partisan politics. I find the Republicans and Democrats on the wrong track involving our place in Iraq, our domestic problems, our border disasters and just about everything facing us at this time.

I saw the vote last night on pulling out of Iraq and I have a serious question for the GOP who obviously wants to keep our troops fighting the terrorists. Do these people realize we are outnumbered in the Middle East? No matter if we fight in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria or anywhere, we are out numbered! The more we kill, the more show up and we must never forget that we Americans are the infidels that they must kill!

Do any Republicans realize our borders are wide open to Muslims moving into our cities by they thousands? Do our Republican leaders care whether we fight terrorists in our own neighborhoods? May I assume that Republicans are content with the Bush Administration and will continue to reelect the congress and senate until we find ourselves totally outnumbered here at home?

Is there anyone in either party who is considering the options of where we go from here? Bush made it clear that we are in for the duration…..of what? How is it possible for our troops to kill all the terrorists when we end up training them to take over when we leave? Does anyone else see a losing fight in Iraq? Will this continue until the terrorists move into our own streets and send their suicide bombers into our schools and churches? This may have already started but nobody seems to care.

I see no leadership in the house, senate or white house. I don’t even see much in the Governor’s seat in our states. Has ignorance and apathy taken over the minds of the voters who keep returning these people into power?

Has anyone noticed the condition of our moral values? The Democrats have no fight for or against anything and the Republicans will give up everything to protect Bush. Is there nobody who can stand up for our Nation’s Sovereignty and Constitution?

We are seriously in jeopardy of losing our country’s security by sending our troops to another Crusader war. Why can’t we leave the Middle East to the Muslims and find oil somewhere else? Let them worship their Allah in their own way. Didn’t we learn in Vietnam, that America is not king of the hill anymore?

Can we open a dialog here to discuss how we get out of the Middle East and focus on the mess we’ve made in America?

[Down21]

Maybe try not invading countries under false pretences? Your post is blatantly racist. The man in charge of your country is a waste of space, but America put him in power....twice. Religious freaks in your country are voting in a religious chimp who wants to kill religious freaks in another country to get at oil. What's the problem? Religious belief. The middle East is not full of terrorists, and the Muslims living in "your" country although deluded (they believe in God), will probably not blow up your kids. Allah Vs Jesus ...this time it's personal.

[Down21]

Iraq where terrorism is a religion??? You freak. What has the war in Iraq got to do with terrorism...no WMD...I thought Osama was Afghani?

Muslim terrorists (a vast vast vast minority) are interpreting the Koran correctly....kill people that dont believe. This viral programme is also present in christianity.

[Sandy]

I'm trying to find a way to get my guys out of Iraq. I'm no Bush supporter but I am trying to find a way to get the American people to recognize what an awful man they elected. However, he is in office and our boys are dying because of it.

Terrorists are religious zealots and I don't care if they hit your subways or my buildings it is time we recognized the evil that comes with religion. Whether we worship Jesus Christ or Allah we are demented.

You have a right to be angry but don't jump on me as a racist because I'm trying to convince the world that America is no longer the top of t he food chain. The British Empire got its ass whipped and I would rather not have it happen to America.

You key word was "probably" and shows that you are not certain about the Muslims. I do not want to take a chance. I'm old enough to remember putting our Japanese Americans into a intern camps just after Pearl Harbor. It made us all sick as my area of California was filled with Japanese Americans. But we are dealing with religious zealots at this time and the whole thing changes into a war to the finish.

Have you got even a simply solution to how we are going to get out of Iraq or are you simply going to throw insults at those of us who would like some dialog on this mess?

[Down21]

America shouldnt just leave Iraq in the mess AMERICA has created. It wasnt very nice there before with Sadams regime but it's worse now. More people are dying. If America pull out now, a fresh faced young dictator could easily take over. This would be nice when you need more oil and can use the new sadam as an excuse to go in again. Any new minority entering America (or any country for that matter) has a period of struggle (racism accepted by the public) until they find their feet and racism is no longer tolerated.

I said probably as a joke. I live in a city in the UK with a very large Muslim population. Muslims are quiet , religious people with many backward ways which I disagree with but they are not terrorists. How many Muslims are there in the world ? How many of these have committed an act of terrorism? I would think the number is vanishingly small. Certainly more likely to get run over than dying at the hands of a muslim terrorist. America is not fighting just terrorists , some are people who just dont want their country occupied....Thousands of innocent people including children have died in Iraq because of American bombs.

Tony Blair supported Bush's war on iraq despite massive public rejection and no evidence of WMD. This was a big mistake. I am not from the UK I am just studying here at the moment so I will not accept any responsibility for Blair/Bush wars since I could not possibly vote against either.

America is top of the food chain....look at all the fat people!

[Sandy]

Down. Muslims are very religious people. We have many in America and they can lie dormant until the call from Allah shows its face. It is the same with many Christians. We have our brand of fundamentalists who will pick up a weapon whenever their minister tells them to. It is a brainwashing that starts from birth and it is killing the souls of many great people. We saw it in the Crusades, the Inquisitions and even in your country under old Henry VIII. Bloody Mary did her slaughter when the Pope requested it. Every nation on this planet is subject to terrorism.

My own family came from Scotland where slaughter and terrorism was in all of my ancestors. My daughter in law is from Ireland where they have been at war with each other for generations. Blair and Bush were out of control and planned a take over of the Middle East to get the oil. They were wrong! But damnit man, that is not the problem!!!

The problem is how to get the hell out before we lose any more troops. Do you have anything of value to bring here as to how we solve this catastrophy? Get off your soapbox and stop pontificating like a child. Either get some dialog going or go away.

I spent a lot of time in the UK and if I were you, I would not comment on fat people.

[Down21]

Again, I am not from the UK. Again, the fat thing was a joke, yes there are fat people everywhere. I am Irish actually (the republic). There is no war in Ireland. Northern Ireland (where the war WAS) is part of Britain.

What are you going to say next?...Muslims smell...that's why they have to wash 3 times a day? How can you not see your prejudice. I hate religious belief in all forms it bothers me, but trust me you are being alarmist. Perhaps you are being brainwashed by your biased media?

There is no simple way to solve America/Britains problem in Iraq. Since you started the post, do you have any suggestions? I think the damage is done and to pull out would be negligent....might happen.

[calpurnpiso]

Sandy wrote:

"I see no leadership in the house, senate or white house. I don’t even see much in the Governor’s seat in our states. Has ignorance and apathy taken over the minds of the voters who keep returning these people into power?"

One must realize where ignorance and apathy comes from. Weak brains infected with religious-psychosis. A neurological disturbance that, by eroding the logic centers of the brain, makes this organ unable to clearly differentiate between an absurd delusion ( religious beliefs, fairy tales, irrational concepts, illusions, visions et al) and a concrete tangible down to earth empirical fact. The most virulent strain of the religious-psychosis is Christianity. It has a mile long record of immorality, genocide, perverted thinking, devious mental conditioning, re-writing of history, intellectual stagnation, and ancient civilizations anhilation. There is no other religious neurological disturbance that equals Christianity in malevolence....and these disturbed idiots are RUNNING the country!! There is where the PROBLEM lies!.

"Has anyone noticed the condition of our moral values? The Democrats have no fight for or against anything and the Republicans will give up everything to protect Bush. "

With Christian "moral values" who needs perversion and immorality? Schizophrenia sufferers will do anything to protect one of his own!

"Is there nobody who can stand up for our Nation’s Sovereignty and Constitution? "

Yes, ONLY NEUROLOGISTS. They are the ONLY ones with the power to declare religion a form of neurological disturbance infecting UNSTABLE defective brains. This declaracion and diagnosis will STOP Christ-psychotics DANGEROUS RETARDS from been elected to public office. Do we allow drunks flying planes?. Do we allow blind people to seek jobs as chauffeurs? Do we allow epileptics to drive heavy equipment?, so, why do we allow mentaly ill retards to seek public office and positions if power?....the reason is BECAUSE religious DELUSIONAL IRRATIONAL beliefs are NOT viewed for the mental illness they truly are!....Our future rest in the hands of neurology researchers. Can we imagine a sick Christian like Bush uttering the sentence " and may god continue to bless America" and a mental health clinic doctor have him committed?..for his utterance is no different that the one "..and may Uttan the spirit of the face in Mars continue to protect America ", said by an schizophrenia or TLE sufferer!.

" We are seriously in jeopardy of losing our country’s security by sending our troops to another Crusader war. Why can’t we leave the Middle East to the Muslims and find oil somewhere else? Let them worship their Allah in their own way. Didn’t we learn in Vietnam, that America is not king of the hill anymore? "

The reason of this problem go back hundreds of years due to Christ-psychosis conservatism and anachronism. This mental illness with its intellectual stagnant trigger of faith, wants to apply the christ-psychosis delusions of the past to these MODERN times!...Alas, this is obviously INSANE, but since it is an acto of religion induced morality, it is not view for the neurological disease it truly is. In religious psychosis stupor, the more things change, the more they remain the same..:)

[Sandy]

Cal. I completely agree with you. I'm reading Sam Harris' "The end of Faith" and am not quite up to the neurological problems found in Christianity yet. This book came recommended by a fellow from Goodyear, AZ. Seems as if we Arizonans are ahead of the game. I'm a member of the Secular Humanists of Greater Phoenix. I live in Sun City. Smack dab in the middle of Christianville.

So are you saying we will never get out of Iraq until we break out in a case of Atheism all over America? I will spend the day back in Sam's book so I can keep up with your hypothesis.

[Down21]

Amen. Curing theism with atheism would solve much of the worlds problems. Cal I do like the christ-pscychosis idea.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15026516&itool=iconfft&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14564668&itool=iconpmc&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1306896&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=12



Here are some articles

[Eva]

Iraq where terrorism is a religion??? You freak. What has the war in Iraq got to do with terrorism...no WMD...I thought Osama was Afghani?

Muslim terrorists (a vast vast vast minority) are interpreting the Koran correctly....kill people that dont believe. This viral programme is also present in christianity.
osama is saudi arabian. he just moved to afganistan to have some fun.

[calpurnpiso]

Cal. I completely agree with you. I'm reading Sam Harris' "The end of Faith" and am not quite up to the neurological problems found in Christianity yet. This book came recommended by a fellow from Goodyear, AZ. Seems as if we Arizonans are ahead of the game. I'm a member of the Secular Humanists of Greater Phoenix. I live in Sun City. Smack dab in the middle of Christianville.

So are you saying we will never get out of Iraq until we break out in a case of Atheism all over America? I will spend the day back in Sam's book so I can keep up with your hypothesis.
Hi fellow Arizonan. I belong to the Phoenix Atheists group and I live in Chandler.
The key to ALL of our answers has been there all along in front ot us! The BRAIN!!.

The brain can suffer trauma, disease, high temperature, fever, chemical imbalance due to psychoactive substances (i,e peyotl. opium, ergot. It can be affected also by electro magnetic fields etc etc. And the results produced by these aflictions, will AFFECT the way the brain computes and analyzes information!. The reason the religious are not unlike mentally retarded folks who reject the FACTS of science.

An apparently healthy 5 year old child's brain who creates an invisible friend whom the child calls Josie would be view as retarded or metnally ill if when as an adult he will still converse with Josie.The Christ-psychotics believing jesus is a real entity are not much different than the normal 5 year old child and the mentally retarded adult!.....so Religious people are simply having something wrong with their brain's logic center. Here are some interesting sites that when bits of their information are connected will give weight t my hypothsis of Christianity being a form of neurological disorder close to mental retardation:

http://www.geocities.com/satanicus_2/GodHelmet.html

http://www.psychminded.co.uk/news/news2003/april03/God%20on%20the%20brain%20is%20religion%20just%20a% 20step%20away%20from%20mental%20illness.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/577180.stm

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?lastnode_id=1140332&node_id=1313416

http://skepdic.com/pareidol.html

http://www.huxley.net/soma/

This link shows where ancient religions got their delusions from:

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/apples_apollo.html

Christ-psychotics were not the only ones to use DRUGS to "talk" to god and receive his message: http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/sty/print/spl/0/par/24343/

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16593

The evidence Christ-psychotics fried their already dysfunctional brains with psychoactive drugs back in the 4th Century is shown here:

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm

Hitler's favorite Christian reformer, whom he emulated in his Mein Kampf with quotations and plagiarisms of the Babble, Martin Luther (1500s ce), was a mentally ill man with stomach problems. He probably suffered from borna virus caused depression or the same illness ( temporal lobe epilepsy) that affected Ellen White of the Adventists, ( see site above). This site shows WHERE he was at when writing his 95 thesis!! : http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_041022lut.shtml

There is no question in my mind Christians are mentally ill people which NOBODY sees as insane, allowed to roam the streets and traveling all over the planet molesting everyone with their purile delusions infecting them....:)

[calpurnpiso]

Amen. Curing theism with atheism would solve much of the worlds problems. Cal I do like the christ-pscychosis idea.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15026516&itool=iconfft&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14564668&itool=iconpmc&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1306896&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=12



Here are some articles
Haven't you noticed.....none of them are Americans? I wonder why. In the same manner the French discovered the pathogen that caused AIDS, the HIV. I tend to believe it'll be up the the Brittish to find the neurological pathogen that causes religious-psychosis......:)

[Down21]

Iraq where terrorism is a religion??? You freak. What has the war in Iraq got to do with terrorism...no WMD...I thought Osama was Afghani?

Muslim terrorists (a vast vast vast minority) are interpreting the Koran correctly....kill people that dont believe. This viral programme is also present in christianity.
osama is saudi arabian. he just moved to afganistan to have some fun.
My mistake, sorry. I heard he is living in Russia and travelling with a circus now. Once he's happy I suppose.:)

[kmisho]

Christianity is just as terrorist as Islam, it's just been more suppressed in the west because our secular ideals. If secularism had less strnegth in the US there would be more christian terrorist acts than there are (bombing abortion clinics and killing assassinating abortion doctors comes to mind). It makes me ill when western propaganda makes people biased against islam over christianity. We are in the new crusades. One of the evidences for this is that even atheists will side with christianity over islam as the nicer religion. Sandy isn't the only one, I have heard similar progadandized prejudices from people I personally know.

[Sternwallow]

Whether the Repubs want oil or not, they are not about to get out of Iraq. It is not even Viet Nam quagmire, they just don't want Muslims in charge. This chronic Mid-East war is the swan song for America's "greatness" in the world. Bush has cast our lot with Tony Blair and our country will soon share its fate with his in its historic sunset. I'm kinda glad I won't be around for many years longer so I won't see the dismal slide of the "land of the free and home of the brave" down the flume of corruption to the "land under constant terrorist alerts and the former home of the brave, now fighting overseas".

[Sandy]

I read on another forum that there is a rumor that France might be accepting a Islamic party into their government. Would this be an act of cowardice or just a way to keep the terrorists from striking them? Those are Muslims who have been burning down the cities and I wonder if this will be an appeasement.

[Rat Bastard]

It wouldn't surprise me at all. Since the French are essentially irreligious, the principal religion in France is ISLAM. Yup, told to me by a Frenchman. In fact, if you marry in a church in France, you still have to go register with the secualr gov to have it "for real". There's the real reason they didn't want to go into Iraq. You think the unrest with the disenfranchised people is bad now, imagine what it would have been like if France HAD joined the coalition. They would end up like Spain.

[Sandy]

Yes, I am aware of the Islam numbers in Europe. I wonder if Bush knows! I also wonder if he knows whether we Amerians will fight as Americans or Christians. I will never enter into any religious war! I don't care which side wins.

Had we kept the Separation of Church and State in order we would never be involved in Iraq. Bush is fighting another crusade and as usual is killing innocent people doing it.

Religion is a mental disease.

[Rat Bastard]

The more I think about it, the less I believe that wars are started for covering bad business decisions (my original premise) and the more I agree with your assessment. Religious psychosis. Fact of the matter is, I personally suspect that this may be one of the original reasons for religion- to channel the lunacy- but then it got away. A lot of religions have and can be used for good, if channeled properly. But it doesn't take just religion to do it. Atheists do good as well, or at least I do. (-1, sp)

[Sandy]

Religion is a man made design to keep people threatened by some spirit or God. I woke up at the age of 9 and never gave it a second thought. I spent the next 40 years reading everything I could find on and about the bible and nothing connected the dots. Some of my closest and most loyal friends have been my dogs. They do not lie or cheat. They have no illusions or delusions. Now I'm old as dirt and have no problems with simply dying (hopefully with dignity) and if my mind simply turns off, many people will be relieved. I feel as if I'm in a Monty Python skit most of the time anyway.

"Musical Wood?" I have a wooden pan pipe, does that count?

[calpurnpiso]

Yes, I am aware of the Islam numbers in Europe. I wonder if Bush knows! I also wonder if he knows whether we Amerians will fight as Americans or Christians. I will never enter into any religious war! I don't care which side wins.

Had we kept the Separation of Church and State in order we would never be involved in Iraq. Bush is fighting another crusade and as usual is killing innocent people doing it.

Religion is a mental disease.
Exactly!! A mental illness not unlike a very mild form of undiagnosed schizophrenia coated with a temporal lobe epilepsy anomaly where delusion enriched irrational concepts, fueled by faith triggers, take over the brain's logic centers.

Christians are simply mentally ill retards!! Separation between church and state is an ILLUSION!!. Ancient Goverments over 5000 years ago came into being BECAUSE of religious beliefs sytems! The king/leader WAS a god in ALL ancient civilizations throughout the world.

The cult of Divus Iulius where Iulius Caesar, a lord and savior to Romans, which was stablished throughout the vast Roman Empire and FAITHFULLY observed for over 250 years after the death of Caesar in 44 bce, mutated into what we know as Christianity today! This ancient 2000 year old fantasy germinates today in DISEASED modern brains as irrational delusional concepts also germinate in the diseased brains of the schizophrenia and temporal lobe epilepsy sufferer.

While Christianity's religious induced delusions are viewed as a normal way of thinking and acting, the ones produced by schizophrenia-TLE are not! Why?...I believe this is due to 2000 years of mental conditioning by culture, teachers, and relentless CDIs ( Christian delusions inducers).

These manipulative psychos have taken over governments that have a DIFFERENT religious-psychosis, thus over centuries forcing theirs, by killing, pillaging, delusional teachings, creating a delusional feeling that we in the US, have a separation of church and state! Alas, don't we have the word 'creator" in the Constitution? References to an idiotic ethereal entity in our currency? Laws and government based on the PAGAN Roman delusional system? making oaths by placing our hands on Book of anachronistic Lying myths? Teaching "morals" based on irrational delusional malevolent illusions?...uttering USELESS prayers to TOOTH FAIRIES by government officials?......so....the TRUTH is, separation between Church and State is an ILLUSION, believed to be true only by uneducated Christianity infected retards!!..which are about 80% of Americans.......

The truth will set one FREE. Christian beliefs are a form of mental illness...if it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck and swims like a duck......:)

[Down21]

I read on another forum that there is a rumor that France might be accepting a Islamic party into their government. Would this be an act of cowardice or just a way to keep the terrorists from striking them? Those are Muslims who have been burning down the cities and I wonder if this will be an appeasement.
I think letting the Islamic party into Government is neither an act of cowardice or a way to keep terrorists striking them. Is it possible that they want to have representation for a minority in France? This should be the case. It's not like the French Government will be overthrown by Islam because they will not have majority support anyway. It wont be like America where the majority of people are religious and so are the politicians. France is very secular.

The fact that it is mainly Muslims rioting on the streets is irrelavant. If poor minorities are being treated unfairly and forced to live in Shit holes then they will rebel. Every country has it's own examples of race riots. These people are not terrorists they are poor. They are not poor because of their religion they are poor because of their immigrant status.

[Rat Bastard]

I guess I missed the part about French rioters being primarily Muslim. I didn't go any further in looking at the riots than that they were happening. Rioters I am used to seeing are in South Central Los Angeles (I am from near there, but another county) and just figured that it was the black people getting the shaft AGAIN. I wonder if the French rioters are living in SHIITE holes?:o

Sandy, as far as musical wood goes, that is a really bad pun: "Log-a-rhythm"- it is a drum log. I tried to find a good pic of a slide rule (a logarithmic calculator) but didn't see anything good enough to visually make sense. But then as warped as my humor is, that pic is about what one should expect from me, anyway.:D

[Down21]

HAHAHA "SHIITE holes" I like it.

[Sandy]

Ah yes, the old slip stick. I used one for years. You might have done better with a picture of an abacas. I was born in Santa Monica and can remember the old neighborhoods of Central L.A. My grandmothers sisters lived there for over 50 years and had no problems with the various colors of their neighbors. But then I'm 4th generation Californian and have never worried about colors.

It was the term "musical" that caught my eye. One of my kids has an African drum collection (she spent some time in Senegal) and many of her instruments are wooden music makers. I'm sorry I wasn't sharp enough to follow your pun. My funny bone is getting old.

So we have another warped humorous person on board? I'm delighted.

[Rat Bastard]

Ah yes, the old slip stick. I used one for years. You might have done better with a picture of an abacas. I was born in Santa Monica and can remember the old neighborhoods of Central L.A. My grandmothers sisters lived there for over 50 years and had no problems with the various colors of their neighbors. But then I'm 4th generation Californian and have never worried about colors.

It was the term "musical" that caught my eye. One of my kids has an African drum collection (she spent some time in Senegal) and many of her instruments are wooden music makers. I'm sorry I wasn't sharp enough to follow your pun. My funny bone is getting old.

So we have another warped humorous person on board? I'm delighted.
Note the color issue is that I sympathize with their plight- disenfranchised. I have several friends that are of color, and so do my kids. I try to meet people one-on-one without characterizing them based on any trait. An A-hole is and A-hole, no matter the color!

An abacus adds linearily, while slide rules multiply by adding logarithms (as I'm sure you knew). I used on also for years, until calculators were marketed. Also, I enjoy mathematical logic (taught math and physics for a while) and reasoning. I was trying to infer that with the pic to start with. But that is probably a pretty abstruse inference for the most part. I started with a pic of a metronome, but it didn't come out that well, and that pun was really bad- you had to realize the pendulum of the metronome was a "log-a-rhythm".:o

I only joined in September when I found the forum. Lurked for a few days first.

[Sandy]

I am in total awe of anyone who can play, work, understand, add or subtract numbers. Growing up in Santa Monica I was a beach bum and although I love history and read a lot, math slipped by me quickly unobserved. The power of numbers is a foreign concept to my sun baked brain. It has plagued me all my life so when I started having kids, I tossed them in a very academic private school where they were sponges to all things mathematic. My husband was a college professor (nuclear physics) and was another member of my family who lived way above my ability to converse.

Everyone is grown up and moved on and I actually know how to use a calculator. It is the only way I can do my checkbook.

BTW they now have electronic metronomes. I sold my piano before I moved to Arizona and threw in the log-a-rhythm. I was raised in a very musical family (all professionals) so we had pianos and other instruments in all levels of the home. I played the piano for a number of years until I had a car accident and my right hand was damaged. My kids all play an instrument but they sneered at the electronic metronome as "too mod."

I've been in and out of this forum for a while. I did some writing for a couple of papers and website and threw in the towel about a week ago. The internet is too religious for my taste so I quit!

Nice to know you. May I call you "log?"

[Sternwallow]

Sandy, as far as musical wood goes, that is a really bad pun: "Log-a-rhythm"- it is a drum log. I tried to find a good pic of a slide rule (a logarithmic calculator) but didn't see anything good enough to visually make sense. But then as warped as my humor is, that pic is about what one should expect from me, anyway.:D
Neat, I follow the sliding rules myself, ever sinc I got my first Deci-Log-Log-Trig Deitzgen with Teflon grooves. Told my prof I could read it to five decimal places, but he didn't buy the story.

[Rat Bastard]

I am in total awe of anyone who can play, work, understand, add or subtract numbers. Growing up in Santa Monica I was a beach bum and although I love history and read a lot, math slipped by me quickly unobserved. The power of numbers is a foreign concept to my sun baked brain. It has plagued me all my life so when I started having kids, I tossed them in a very academic private school where they were sponges to all things mathematic. My husband was a college professor (nuclear physics) and was another member of my family who lived way above my ability to converse.

Everyone is grown up and moved on and I actually know how to use a calculator. It is the only way I can do my checkbook.

BTW they now have electronic metronomes. I sold my piano before I moved to Arizona and threw in the log-a-rhythm. I was raised in a very musical family (all professionals) so we had pianos and other instruments in all levels of the home. I played the piano for a number of years until I had a car accident and my right hand was damaged. My kids all play an instrument but they sneered at the electronic metronome as "too mod."

I've been in and out of this forum for a while. I did some writing for a couple of papers and website and threw in the towel about a week ago. The internet is too religious for my taste so I quit!

Nice to know you. May I call you "log?"
Sure, most people call me log or logy.

Sorry to hear about your hand, though.:(

[Choobus]

Sorry to hear about your hand, though.:(
ME too. I hope you can still do a double handed power wank, when the need arises.

[Choobus]

I read on another forum that there is a rumor that France might be accepting a Islamic party into their government. Would this be an act of cowardice or just a way to keep the terrorists from striking them? Those are Muslims who have been burning down the cities and I wonder if this will be an appeasement.
don't believe what you read in online forums......

[Rat Bastard]

Sorry to hear about your hand, though.:(
ME too. I hope you can still do a double handed power wank, when the need arises.
That would be a neat trick for a female, Choobus!:lol::o

[Sandy]

It was years ago and I forget about it. The tendons in my thumb and little finger were severed so I can never reach an octave. I can do everything else. My knees also took a bad hit and in the last 5 years I have had to replace them. I have one more surgery and then I will be hiking the hills around my neighborhood. I'm still very active and do promotion and Press Releases for a couple of Board of Directors here in my area. It is cutting into my reading time but I'm glad I still have my buttons so I can retain what I read.

I'm old and things are wearing out; it's to be expected! Move over Geezer, I'm a Geezette.

[Choobus]

Sorry to hear about your hand, though.:(
ME too. I hope you can still do a double handed power wank, when the need arises.
That would be a neat trick for a female, Choobus!:lol::o
I did not state upon whom the double handed power wank was to be performed :o:o

In any case, Sandy could be male. A bit gay perhaps, but there are some male Sandy's. In Scotland it's not that rare, for example.

[Sandy]

Gracious! I'm an old grandmother with shoes older than most of you. If I don't understand what you are saying, I will politely ignore it.

[Sandy]

Choobus, I was named after a Scotch Whiskey. My maiden name was McNabb (like Donavan) and my father ordered a case of Sandy McNabb whiskey to give out at my birth. Had I been a male, I would have still been Sandy (Alexander) so you are absolutely right. I'm not as dark as Donavan as I have the map of Scotland on my face.

www.rightpov.com Scroll to "About Author" and you will see the old girl (me). I was 68 when the picture was taken so don't expect to see a beauty.

[Rat Bastard]

If your shoes are older than me they were made during the Truman administration!:o You must be pretty lightweight to have them last that long. I never got more than maybe 2 years out of a pair. But I would have to say that most of the posting entities here are a pile younger than us....

[Sternwallow]

Move over Geezer, I'm a Geezette.
Then you are entitled to start a newspaper. Move over yourself unless you are also grumpy.

It's good to meet you by the way...

[Rat Bastard]

Likewise, Sandy, I am pleased to make your acquaintance, if I didn't already say it. It tends to be a little loose around here on the etiquette, but most people mean well. But some people are just mean, and some people are just, well....oh, and you would probably want to stay away from the haiku and limerick threads, then.:o

[Down21]

I was 68 when the picture was taken so don't expect to see a beauty.
Call me a gerontophile but I think you're a bit of a looker!

[Down21]

I love when a discussion on Iraqi terrorists progresses to romancing the elderly....so natural!

[Sandy]

You dear man! Thank you. You have made my day a good one.

[Choobus]

I was 68 when the picture was taken so don't expect to see a beauty.
Call me a gerontophile but I think you're a bit of a looker!
I concur: I'd accept a two handed power wank from Sandy. And perhaps a little nip of Scotch afterwards as well!!

[Down21]

You dear man! Thank you. You have made my day a good one.
I could be a woman????????

[Sandy]

Honey when you get my age, a nice compliment is appreciated from anyone.

[Down21]

Even a Muslim?

[vheltrite]

i love terrorist!!!



their faking cool!!!

[inkadu]

Hi, Sandy.

I just finished reading Sam Harris' "End of Faith" and found it particularly weak when it came to the fear of Islam.

But first, just to be thinking clearly on this matter, we can completely understand Georgie's desire to invade Iraq without making any reference to terrorism. Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz all are all for invading other countries and establishing America's military dominance in the Middle East. What they have is oil, and access to oil, and it's unclear how much longer the United States will be able to prop up the backwards, repressive regimes that are friendly-enough to us. They are concerned about that access, and the Plan for the New American Century is a group most of the current cabal belonged to and they lay out all these Bush is doing in some detail: the need for pre-emptive war, the need to establish military bases around the world, the need to maintain US's military dominance by attacking countries before they can develop their capability.

Second, what is going on in Iraq can also be considered largely political violence against internal enemies as well as a battle for occupation. The Sunni's, the minority group, have been oppressing the majority Shiites for ages, and now are terrified about have revenge visited upon them, as well as being concerned about losing access to Iraq's oil wells. Much of the violence in Iraq isn't targetted toward the American infidel invaders, but is part of the civil war between factions.

Third, any country who was occupied by a nation that tortured, bombed, evacuated cities, was corrupt and chronically incompetent, all while not speaking the language, would rise up in violence against the occupation. Imagine what it's like for a 19-year-old GI out there, doing house to house searches looking for "terrorists" when he doesn't speak a lick of arabic. How many innocent peopl ehave been accidentally killed by Americans as they fought on the streets of populated cities? I'm saying even in the best of circumstances, without Abu-Ghraib and all that, it's very hard to militarily occupy a country where you're still fighting a guerilla war and keep the support of the public. America has lost that support.

So, I think what I've said here explains a lot more about what is going on in iraq that is explicated in Harris' book. The End of Faith is a great book when it comes to explaining religious fanaticism and it's dangers, but it is far from giving us a complete picture on what is going in Iraq. And, in fact, if that's your only point of reference, things will naturally seem apocolyptic.

My take on Iraq is that we have already lost and that the military has done everything a military can do. The "threat of terrorism" will be hanging over all of our heads, just as the threat of nuclear annihilation was hanging over my head when I was growing up. It's irresponsible to say that it will just go away. But to paint all muslims are fanatics with nuclear suitcases strapped to their chest is also silly. Going forward it would be nice to have an administration that responsibly combat Islamic fundamentalism without making it even worse of a problem.

Also... about the piano-thing. I used to play piano when I was a kid and HATED it. hated lessons. hated practicing, hated eveyrthing. But now I kind of miss it, and will probably get a digital piano as soon as I can afford one...

Best wishes,
i

[StillSurviving]

I had to post this in here to offer another opinion. Too much liberal bullshitting makes my skin itch.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/051109_france.htm

[Sandy]

Inka. I absolutely agree with you on Iraq. I have read a lot of books on this subject and even laid out a scenario in one of my articles on how America would react if some army decided to move into one of our cities, set up new buildings and began to direct our traffic, businesses and laws. I can certainly see myself as an insurgent reactionary and would shoot the crap out anyone trying to take over any part of my country.

I am very familiar with PNAC and the neocons wanted a one world order where ever they can get it.

I had no particular motive for reading Harris's book except that it came highly recommended by an old friend. What I found of interest was the thought that this deep fear of God might be a neuropsychotic problem. Many generations of instilling this fear in Muslims and Christians has caused a mental disorder within the evolved brain. I immediately feared for my own brain. I had been indoctrinated since birth by my Mormon Bishop grandfather! Why did I not buy it? Why did I suddenly find the whole thing utter bullshit and walk away from the whole scene?

I didn't just revolt at the thought of God, I simply dismissed it as nonsense. I was 9 when this happened!

My grandparents raised me as my mother was a professional musician and toured all over Europe doing two piano work with another musician. She was gone for years and came home to be a studio musician. I was given piano lesson from the age of 3 and my life evolved around music. It still does. Everyone in the family played an instrument from my uncle who played trumpet with Harry James and Paul Whitman and another uncle who wrote background music for the studios. My youngest uncle composed many songs for the big bands and his kids all played instruments with the Seattle Symphony and the L.A. Philharmonic. We fought for instruments in our home and would practice and rehearse together.

I can no longer play but I managed my own chamber music group in California, was on the Board of Directors for the San Luis Obispo Symphony for years and am now Board Secretary for the Chamber Music Society here near Phoenix. My life is filled with the good music day and night.

My own kids have a great love of music and play their own instruments. But we had no television in our home and the kids grew up to Mozart and Brahms. We threw in a little Carole King and James Taylor and of course the Beatles. Tt is all good music!! I tried to give them a good cross section in music, theater and art. Books were our main interest and the kids managed to get through the basic children's classics before they headed off to college. That last summer before college, they got through both of Rand's massive novels so I knew they had a strong sense of individual morality.

[Philboid Studge]

Wow, Sandy! You look great! If it weren't for the Ayn Rand thing I'd ask if I could sniff your shoes, no matter how old they are.

[Sandy]

Thanks Phil but I have to confess I seldom wear shoes any more. I live in the desert where shoes are for sissies. I swim nearly every day at the Rec Center and am still a sun worshipper. I would probably look pretty good if I stayed out of the sun but I am solar powered.

I would suggest a couple of my daughters but they are very much married to great guys.

[Sandy]

I have been threatened to leave this forum. I guess this is it for me. I don't like ugly posts from people who I don't know. This part of the forum has been neat. I'll see you somewhere else.

[Choobus]

I have been threatened to leave this forum. I guess this is it for me. I don't like ugly posts from people who I don't know. This part of the forum has been neat. I'll see you somewhere else.
What!! By whom? You must report this outrage.

Grrr

[Sandy]

Whoops it was from Atheist Network. I logged off over there. I like this place. thanks Choobus, it's nice to know I have a friend here.

[Philboid Studge]

Whoops it was from Atheist Network. I logged off over there. I like this place. thanks Choobus, it's nice to know I have a friend here.
Phew! Glad you're still with us, Sandy! Remember: You have a friend in Choobus.

[kmisho]

I had to post this in here to offer another opinion. Too much liberal bullshitting makes my skin itch.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/051109_france.htm
I get it...

The antidote to liberal bullshitting is scientific racism.

[Rat Bastard]

Sandy, based on the tenor of your postings here, I would find myself hard pressed to believe anybody except some fundie would give you the boot. Even there, if you described yourself as an atheist first, you could probably stick (in the right thread). Guys like Choobus or Snap Crafter (and some others, you know who you are), though, would get kicked out in a hurry. The Choobs, as I call him, has even less patience for the lack 'o' brains set than I do. But another atheist forum? Must be a bunch of ate up people. Or, only one, with a charge of nitro between his ears. I personally am looking forward to learning a lot here, and I think you will help with that.

[Sandy]

I don't know what their problem was or is. I posted over their a couple of years ago and befriended a young author who I felt had a great talent. He was also a tad mad. He ended up jumping off a freeway overpass and I was extremely saddened by this action. I think that became a problem. I left and forgot I'd ever been there. I tend to cruise around the forums looking for things to write about. I keep no list of where I've been but I apparently wandered in again a couple of months ago. They seem upset that I admitted to having been a Republican and off they went again. I logged off and who knows, I may end up there in a year or two. I have no desire to remember any of this childish crap.

I am always interested in how people feel about their country, God and their politics. I have done a lot of travelling and have spent many wonderful times visiting the great cities.

I am particularly interested in how people view religion in the Middle East. They make a lot of noise but they are not all that different from the Fundamentalists here in America......scary!!!

[Down21]

Hi Sandy,
If you are interested in learning about how people view their faith I heard that the book "Why I'm not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq is a good read. Since he was a Muslim and then denounced it (not an easy task) it should be an interesting look at Islam in all its absurdity.

[Rat Bastard]

I had to post this in here to offer another opinion. Too much liberal bullshitting makes my skin itch.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/051109_france.htm
I get it...

The antidote to liberal bullshitting is scientific racism.
The guy is using flawed research to prove his point. It isn't much different from the theists only quoting the buy bull or some Hovind crap...also based on flawed research, or no research at all.

As a case in point, the alleged higher "IQ" of Asians is a well-documented case. Testing of Asians was conducted in the '40s using an older set of tests than was used for the remainder of the American population. As time progresses, the collective intelligence of the population is rising. In any event, the older IQ tests "proved" the Asian group was smarter than the rest of the American Caucasian population at the time. Also, in this case, the group tested was the people interred during WWII, all native speakers of English as spoken, and raised in America. Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

Same goes for "Africans and Muslims". Tests given to ANY population assume a certain amount of assimilation or nativity of language. If you just walked into America and did not speak English well, how do you think you would score on an IQ test? Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

If you look at the rest of this jerk's rants, you will likely find a flaw like the above in every one. Both of the above examples are based on skewed data- bad tests for the subject population in both cases.

[inkadu]

I had no particular motive for reading Harris's book except that it came highly recommended by an old friend. What I found of interest was the thought that this deep fear of God might be a neuropsychotic problem. Many generations of instilling this fear in Muslims and Christians has caused a mental disorder within the evolved brain. I immediately feared for my own brain. I had been indoctrinated since birth by my Mormon Bishop grandfather! Why did I not buy it? Why did I suddenly find the whole thing utter bullshit and walk away from the whole scene?

I didn't just revolt at the thought of God, I simply dismissed it as nonsense. I was 9 when this happened!
Wow. I'm continually being surprised by just how gosh-durn young so many people came to their atheism. I guess, rationally, I was somewhere along the way to disbelief around nine. The emotional part of shaking off God took a lot longer. For instance, I was worried God would be mad at me for not believing in him enough! It wasn't until I was taking ancient civilizations in high school that I realized how little sense it made, in the grand sweep of history, and how many millions of souls would be completely in limbo or damnation because they didn't receive the revelation and weren't jewish. I also have my father to thank, who is a devout catholic hater, coming from a South American country where church and state are NOT so separate, so hypocrisy obviously abounds.

You family sounds like the Classical Swiss Partridge Family Robisnson. Really, it seems quite pleasant. I think the reason my lessons never took was that my parents were really horrible in many ways about music. My mother liked Kenny Rogers (as did I), and my father just wanted me to play Chopin concertos before I could bang out Michael Row Your Boat Ashore... since then, I've learned to play guitar and appreciate music a lot more then when I was a kid. I'm still very frustrated as a musician. I have trouble recognizing the movement of chords... but I'm hoping piano will help with that. It's very difficult to play chord melodies on guitar, and it's also a very difficult instrument to read for. Or, you know, maybe I'm just musically challenged. :|

Hope you stick around.
i

[inkadu]

The guy is using flawed research to prove his point. It isn't much different from the theists only quoting the buy bull or some Hovind crap...also based on flawed research, or no research at all.
Now, let's be fair. The Mohammedans need to be confronted plainly and forthrightly; we shall boost the production of quinine for our tonics and set out into their mysterious lands. Press a few sailors, and lets grab a comission from the East India Tea Company. After we have knocked those Mohammedans into a cocked hat, we shall make a quick stop to Calcutta for some of that blissful powder, heroin, and then sell it in the Orient. We will have to be wary, though, for the oriental is as wily as he is inscrutable.

g-theory is soooo 19th century.

[Down21]

I have just read that Iraq will lose $200 billion because of plans to hand over control of oil to American and British multinationals......war on terror my balls. How many people on both sides died because of this bullshit?

[Sandy]

Inka. I gave up God easily. It seemed so absurd and even with my many years in Sunday School I did not buy it. What really hurt was when I learned that King Arthur did not exist! I lived in our city library and read everything I could on the great King. I was in high school when I discovered he was a myth!

In 1989 I spent a summer wandering around England and made a point to travel in Arthur country and ended up spending a day where Camelot was supposed to have been and another day at Stonehenge. I have read a number of books written by Bernard Cornwell who wrote many books on ancient England including the Arthur legends.

I still keep hoping that something will surface that will prove his existence. Until that happens I will have to live with "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."

[StillSurviving]

I had to post this in here to offer another opinion. Too much liberal bullshitting makes my skin itch.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/051109_france.htm
I get it...

The antidote to liberal bullshitting is scientific racism.
The guy is using flawed research to prove his point. It isn't much different from the theists only quoting the buy bull or some Hovind crap...also based on flawed research, or no research at all.

As a case in point, the alleged higher "IQ" of Asians is a well-documented case. Testing of Asians was conducted in the '40s using an older set of tests than was used for the remainder of the American population. As time progresses, the collective intelligence of the population is rising. In any event, the older IQ tests "proved" the Asian group was smarter than the rest of the American Caucasian population at the time. Also, in this case, the group tested was the people interred during WWII, all native speakers of English as spoken, and raised in America. Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

Same goes for "Africans and Muslims". Tests given to ANY population assume a certain amount of assimilation or nativity of language. If you just walked into America and did not speak English well, how do you think you would score on an IQ test? Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

If you look at the rest of this jerk's rants, you will likely find a flaw like the above in every one. Both of the above examples are based on skewed data- bad tests for the subject population in both cases.
Anything to back up these claims? Or do you dismiss anything that rubs you the wrong way as flawed from the get-go?

[inkadu]

Anything to back up these claims? Or do you dismiss anything that rubs you the wrong way as flawed from the get-go?
What's your IQ? Since I'm guessing it's higher than mine, I'm quite willing to concede your argument. You win.

[Lurker]

What's your IQ? Since I'm guessing it's higher than mine, I'm quite willing to concede your argument. You win.
What's your IQ??? That's how you settle an argument these days?

[inkadu]

Inka. I gave up God easily. It seemed so absurd and even with my many years in Sunday School I did not buy it. What really hurt was when I learned that King Arthur did not exist! I lived in our city library and read everything I could on the great King. I was in high school when I discovered he was a myth!
I was always more guillible than that. I imagined I'd find a passageway to an alternate universe where i could prove my worth by fighting dragons or becoming a wizard or something. I spent my time in fantasy novels and so was quite shocked to arrive at adulthood still on the same planet I'd been trying so desperately to get away from.

But I thought King Arthur really did exist, at least as some Saxon tribal chieftan somewhere. Not much evidence for it, probably, but certainly plausible. But you'd probably dissapointed with the real Arthur. He'd smell bad, for one.

[Sternwallow]

Inka. I gave up God easily. It seemed so absurd and even with my many years in Sunday School I did not buy it. What really hurt was when I learned that King Arthur did not exist! I lived in our city library and read everything I could on the great King. I was in high school when I discovered he was a myth!
I was always more guillible than that. I imagined I'd find a passageway to an alternate universe where i could prove my worth by fighting dragons or becoming a wizard or something. I spent my time in fantasy novels and so was quite shocked to arrive at adulthood still on the same planet I'd been trying so desperately to get away from.

But I thought King Arthur really did exist, at least as some Saxon tribal chieftan somewhere. Not much evidence for it, probably, but certainly plausible. But you'd probably dissapointed with the real Arthur. He'd smell bad, for one.
At least he would have a lovely shrubbery.

[kmisho]

Anything to back up these claims? Or do you dismiss anything that rubs you the wrong way as flawed from the get-go?
What's your IQ? Since I'm guessing it's higher than mine, I'm quite willing to concede your argument. You win.
The problem exists on both sides. Have these IQ tests that support racial stupidity been checked for researcher bias? IQ tests have a long history of being abused and have a number of critics that point out that intelligence is not monolinear in the first place.

I am certainly not going to take the results of any IQ test at face value.

[StillSurviving]

What's your IQ? Since I'm guessing it's higher than mine, I'm quite willing to concede your argument. You win.
What's your IQ??? That's how you settle an argument these days?
It shouldn't be. Having a higher IQ doesn't make someone right about everything. I argue against people with higher IQ's somewhat often, and sometimes I make some good points, and sometimes I get trounced.

[inkadu]

What's your IQ??? That's how you settle an argument these days?
Why not? If we're going to assign IQ the single role of moving populations and races, why shouldn't we? In case you didn't get it, I was being snarky and actually hoping for less of a reasonable response from you. ;)

IQ-theory has a long and sordid history that reaches from sterilizing immigrants right up to the Bell Curve. The link you posted seems just as scientifically valid and morally reprehensible as Nazi eugenics. You can debate g-theory in the abstract, preferrably with someone from the 1950's, but scientific racism is nothing I care to even honor with debate. If you are interested where I'm coming from, you can read The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould.

[Sandy]

I was going to mention the bell curve but had a lot of correspondence waiting for me. I have read the Gould book. Interesting stuff!

[StillSurviving]

I didn't really want to have so many posts in this thread about IQ. I don't like to be a thread jacker. I'll start another thread in Atheist/Theist morality I guess, since the article claims that the riots were to be expected from a low IQ immigrant population forced to compete with high IQ native peoples for jobs and cultural acceptance. Rioting has to have a moral component right? Would you destroy personal property in your political statement?

[vheltrite]

?

[Rat Bastard]

I get it...

The antidote to liberal bullshitting is scientific racism.
The guy is using flawed research to prove his point. It isn't much different from the theists only quoting the buy bull or some Hovind crap...also based on flawed research, or no research at all.

As a case in point, the alleged higher "IQ" of Asians is a well-documented case. Testing of Asians was conducted in the '40s using an older set of tests than was used for the remainder of the American population. As time progresses, the collective intelligence of the population is rising. In any event, the older IQ tests "proved" the Asian group was smarter than the rest of the American Caucasian population at the time. Also, in this case, the group tested was the people interred during WWII, all native speakers of English as spoken, and raised in America. Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

Same goes for "Africans and Muslims". Tests given to ANY population assume a certain amount of assimilation or nativity of language. If you just walked into America and did not speak English well, how do you think you would score on an IQ test? Same collective IQ as the rest of the population, bad test.

If you look at the rest of this jerk's rants, you will likely find a flaw like the above in every one. Both of the above examples are based on skewed data- bad tests for the subject population in both cases.
Anything to back up these claims? Or do you dismiss anything that rubs you the wrong way as flawed from the get-go?
Admittedly, the example I posted was learned so long ago I forget the source. You will also notice that I said "...likely find a flaw...". If you have seen my other posts you know I don't just wave it off, I give examples. Since I don't have examples for the remainder in my ready stockpile, I gave the "likely" scenario...as in for a penny, in for a pound. If you want to accuse me of "dismiss...from the get-go", go prove I am wrong about the one I provided the example for. Or did you just want to argue, i.e., you believe this guy's BS?