Raving At The Crossroads

[Tenspace]

Living isn't reserved just for all things biological; other entities can take up the appearance of life. We see it in the discovered lives of stars, with our middle-aged Sol. We talk of the internet as being holistic, greater than the sum of its parts. But that's just a snapshot view because we rarely think about the past or future, we're only interested in the affectations of the now. Our current view of natural progression is rather stagnant.

Websites, blogs, and message forums can grow, live and die like anything else that exhibits change over time. Communities of like-minded thought may be formed on constancy, but progress equals change, and although The Reason may remain, each of us changes with each moment, and the collective change is registered in the words we speak and type. This brings me to an observation regarding our Raving Atheist message forums.

Progress provides a high potential for change, and the embraced pluralism here makes it a certainty. The change experienced in our lives is never linear. Sometimes something gets blown out of proportion, an illegitimate uproar meant to knock us off our mundane plateau. But could it be a prescient sign of change, of progress? Those who have walked these hallways before recognize the Crossroads at which we stand.

The forum's bifurcation is inevitable. There will be those that leave, who find homes at other websites, and in many cases those sites may be a more appopriate fit for their internal motives and goals. And there will be others that stay, ignoring the noise, tuning out the irrelevance; or maybe joining in to create havoc for havoc's sake.

This observation is about those who stay. They will be the ones who continue to shape the Raving Atheist forums. Their words will fill the everpresent structure, defining themselves, and in doing so, this website. Limiting personal attacks and bathroom humor is an effort to shape the future of this forum, not an ad hoc violation of free speech. For those who wish to continue putting slander before content, then maybe it's best if you find a forum that embraces the 'anything goes' concept. The rest of us will continue to speak our minds, cuss, hint at our transgressions, proclaim idiocy where due, and in general have a great time cohabitating with other raving atheists.

Tenspace

[inkadu]

I miss luxury. :(

[Eva]

you saw this coming, right, ten?
too bad some people are taking this in such a childish way......

oh well, we still are atheists and this is still The Raving Atheist Forums! and THAT is our reason for being....


inkadu, you can buy luxury! it is not cheap, though..... ;-)

[reconciled]

raving = declaiming wildly; "the raving of maniacs"
talking or behaving irrationally; "a raving lunatic"
in a raving manner; "raving mad"
What a joke! It is against the rules to speak as the name implies!

[Tenspace]

To roar; rage: The storm raved along the coast.
To speak or write with wild enthusiasm: Critics raved about the new play.
An extravagantly enthusiastic opinion or review: The play received raves.
Exciting admiration: a raving beauty

Don't forget the other definitions, which may be more appropriate with regard to the Raving Atheist's original intent when picking a name. :)

[reconciled]

How do you ever get all the bean skins off your lips?

[reconciled]

PS I just called you an ass kisser!

[Tenspace]

PS I just called you an ass kisser!
:lol:

[ocmpoma]

I'm not exactly sure what to say about Choobus being given a "time out". Mostly this is because I am ignorant of the details of the situation, and of what exactly the mods and admin were doing "behind the scenes".
I've been on these forums since day three, and I most certainly like the way that they have grown and changed. However, I'm not fond of the current direction of change. Personally, I would take spamming theists if it means that we can ask them if they engage in anal intercourse with any regularity. Why? It's not a free-speech issue. It's not a "we're not like them" issue. With me, it's more of the entire point behind this particular site. I was surprised to read your post (#5), Ten. Do you seirously consider what you said to be correct? I think the intent on RA's moniker is obvious, especially when his posts are read. Godidiot, anyone?

I remember when the whole "rules" thing got started. I certainly appreciate the legal aspects. I suggested then, and I'll suggest again now, that the forums indeed be bifurcated - a section which is to be kept clean, on topic, etc. etc. and another where Choobus-like behavior is tolerated. By posting in the "clean" zone, one is volunteering to be policed. To me, this is the best solution because it allows for structured, on-topic debate as well as raving.

As secularists, we are forced every day to swallow an unbelievable amount of religiosity, most of it so ingraned into us that it passes almost without notice. The world is a fucked up place. I have always seen this site, and these forums in particular, as a place to point out how fucked up it is, and how fucked up we are. I'm watching now, as I have been since the idea of rules was introduced, hoping that my refuge does not become just another site where the mainstream ideas of decency and politeness are enforced. Unfortunately, I feel that it is inevitable that such will happen; I have felt so when the rules were posted.

But I'm still hoping.

I don't like the idea of banning anyone from this site, even for a week, unless their intent is to shut it down or they are engaged in illegal activities. I have never had any problem ignoring posts and threads here. Maybe the mods and admin are doing more than I suspect. But in the end, it's not really about 'free speech' - it's about reality. The world is not a nice place. Those who run the show do not allow for such niceties as 'staying on topic' and 'not flaming people'. Look around - people don't 'attack the content' - they attack each other. I don't think that these forums will change the world. One of the biggest achievements made here was with Nutritionguy (how I miss him!), and that was more than I ever hoped for. We need coarse speech, we need crude arguments. We need reality. We need the RA's brand of tolerance. We are not angry enough.

I don't think that a week's hiatus is oppresion. But behind it lies a principle, and I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Paine.

[ocmpoma]

Additionally - if part of the issue is workload, may I humbly suggest that some more mods are recruited?

[ProveIt]

Don't forget the other definitions, which may be more appropriate with regard to the Raving Atheist's original intent when picking a name. :)
:::: clears throat :::

Bullshtt

There are more suitable names for something claiming the 'prestigious' end of this definition spectrum.


While I think it's lame that Chewy has been banned for having a freakin opinion... I'll still continue to chime in with my two cents when I see fit. Will I do so as often as before, probably not. I find the whole banning on lack of morals stance to be a bit theistic for my liking. If it's not illegal it should not be against the rules. If your that much of a cry baby... go talk to God.

[ProveIt]

Holy freakin shit Dude... Did I just agree with ocmpoma? How did that happen... Okay, I guess I'll let this one go. Didn't see it coming though.

[UnknownUser]

I agree with the whole free speech stance of ocmpoma but i do think that there is a limit to which free speech can be exercised. Just like how yelling 'bomb' or 'fire' or whatever in a theater is a crime, an over use of vulgar references can be self destructive. I realize that Chewy was simply responding in like to the idiotic statements of theists, but there comes a point when it becomes frustrating to half to read through 20 posts of pointless insults and the like. Honestly i am very liberal and love free speech but i come to places like RA to get away form the stupidity of our fellow man. If i want to hear vulgar discussion and sexual insults i simply attend my high school. Perhaps it would be possible to have an ignore command or something of the like where we can simply block the irrelevant posts the viewer halving to read them, or we do as ocmpoma has suggested and have a relaxed section of the forum for the miscellaneous and off topic discussions can be moved/started...Again to the topic of free speech, the forum needs to have some basis of what is not permitted for polite discourse. I love to make fun of all the idiotic theists that frequent these boards, but resorting to vulgarities is dragging us down to their level. I know almost everyone here is capable of doing better then pointless mud flinging with theists...Hey do what you want, its just my opinion, leave if you really think that doing so will make your life or this forums better. If choobus comes back in a weak i will welcome him, laugh at his antics, and everything will continue on as normal. If not well then he will be missed. I think the RA is an excellent forum, if only to just get away from the intolerant cretins that plague our society...

Just my thoughts.....

~UU

[Tenspace]

I was surprised to read your post (#5), Ten. Do you seirously consider what you said to be correct? I think the intent on RA's moniker is obvious, especially when his posts are read. Godidiot, anyone?
The sole intent of post #5 was to show that reconciled was mining definitions. I don't think it's up to her to decide which variation The Raving Atheist prefers. Maybe someone should ask him.

I don't like the idea of banning anyone from this site, even for a week, unless their intent is to shut it down or they are engaged in illegal activities. I have never had any problem ignoring posts and threads here. Maybe the mods and admin are doing more than I suspect. But in the end, it's not really about 'free speech' - it's about reality. The world is not a nice place. Those who run the show do not allow for such niceties as 'staying on topic' and 'not flaming people'. Look around - people don't 'attack the content' - they attack each other. I don't think that these forums will change the world. One of the biggest achievements made here was with Nutritionguy (how I miss him!), and that was more than I ever hoped for. We need coarse speech, we need crude arguments. We need reality. We need the RA's brand of tolerance. We are not angry enough.
Coarse speech and crude arguments will remain. Since Chris hasn't jumped in, I'll attempt to speak for the mod/admin consensus: 1) We receive more complaints about Choobus than anyone else. Notice how many members are staying out of this discussion? I think Waddlie is the only one to come down on the mod's side of the decision, but there are reports from many different members. I imagine that's what set off Chris. 2) Anal, anal, anal. It's just not funny anymore. The coarse talk is appropriate, even necessary, but it just loses any impact when it's said over and over, and when Choobus, or anyone for that matter, breaks out the coarsest language on the first round, it's just a vapid smear with no real punch anymore. Where's our originality? If you want to tell an idiot YEC theist fundie off, then go ahead, but try something new. Does every attack have to revolve around crude sex?

[Tenspace]

Don't forget the other definitions, which may be more appropriate with regard to the Raving Atheist's original intent when picking a name. :)
:::: clears throat :::

Bullshtt

There are more suitable names for something claiming the 'prestigious' end of this definition spectrum.


While I think it's lame that Chewy has been banned for having a freakin opinion... I'll still continue to chime in with my two cents when I see fit. Will I do so as often as before, probably not. I find the whole banning on lack of morals stance to be a bit theistic for my liking. If it's not illegal it should not be against the rules. If your that much of a cry baby... go talk to God.
See my other post regarding my reason for pointing out reconciled's incomplete list of definitions.

Remember, Choobus was banned by Chris. I have taken shit from both sides on this. I initially attempted to stay out of things, but comments like yours and Ocmpoma's can't go unanswered.

It should be apparent that the admin of this site would rather not see so much crudity. Not everyone may agree. Those that are offended may move on. And the forum will change. Those who stay will say it's for the better, those who leave will say the place just isn't the same.

[Tenspace]

Additionally - if part of the issue is workload, may I humbly suggest that some more mods are recruited?
The mod workload is minimal, because we don't enforce much. The only issue is the banning of Choobus. The "reports" mailbox was full of complaints from several different members. I don't think this was a concerted effort, and kmisho hasn't complained since the last little tiff. It got Chris's attention.

So, what's the next shitstorm? Do we want to ban Cal for his long, repetitive posts? How 'bout any theist that can't hold a conversation in three rounds? Or miata when he's in a cynical mood?

Here's hoping that we can all learn from this. The words may be yours, but ultimately the forum is the Raving Atheist's to do whatever he pleases.

[Clara Listensprechen]

Speaking of the RA complying to the Terms of Service of its service providers, I'm not sure how much a stickler y'all are on copyright/Fair Use regulations, what with all the copy/pasting going on, often unattributed. Know Ye By These Presents that when I paste-post and it's attributable, I do religiously post the attribution and the attribute link--and do not post an entire article, as that would be a violation of Fair Use, being a republication without permission.

The Apostles test that I posted is unattributed because I am its original author and copyright holder....which reminds me...I'd best go back to that posting and post notice as such. I usually make clear at sign up that I retain rights to everything I write myself, in postings, and am not in the habit of posting copyright notice. Given that there's so much unattributed copy/paste routinely, perhaps I should modify my habit in that regard.

[Cap'n Awesome]

1) We receive more complaints about Choobus than anyone else. Notice how many members are staying out of this discussion? I think Waddlie is the only one to come down on the mod's side of the decision, but there are reports from many different members.
So you just caved in to complaints? Dispite the fact that whenever there is a poll anywhere on this board, people overhwhelmingly come out in favor of Choobus, against the new (Very vauge) rules, and against the censorship additude. Plus, you might want to take a look at who's come to the defense of Choobus. Ocmpoma, Philboid, Ghoulslime, Proveit, and yours truely. Most of the longer tenured members of RA. So you've pacified a few whiny politically correct crybabies, and pissed off some of your most loyal, longest tenured, intelligent and frequent members. Congrats!


The mod workload is minimal, because we don't enforce much. The only issue is the banning of Choobus. The "reports" mailbox was full of complaints from several different members. I don't think this was a concerted effort, and kmisho hasn't complained since the last little tiff. It got Chris's attention.

So, what's the next shitstorm? Do we want to ban Cal for his long, repetitive posts? How 'bout any theist that can't hold a conversation in three rounds? Or miata when he's in a cynical mood?

Here's hoping that we can all learn from this. The words may be yours, but ultimately the forum is the Raving Atheist's to do whatever he pleases.
What is the next shitstorm? You guys are the ones that opened that floodgates. Suppose I want to complain about Miata because he's never responded to any of my posts in anything other then an barely coherant personal attack. Suppose the liberals on the board decide to launch a campaign to get rid of me because they don't like the way I point out their lack of bathing habits? Are you going to cave to the massive pressure of having to delete a whole 4 emails every couple days?

[reconciled]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?

[Ponderer]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Why are so many angry with Tenspace? It doesn't seem called for(IMHO).

[reconciled]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Why are so many angry with Tenspace? It doesn't seem called for(IMHO).
Who else is speaking for the RA? Only Ten. It seems strange that chris has nothing to say? And this place did start its change when he became moderator?

[Ponderer]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Why are so many angry with Tenspace? It doesn't seem called for(IMHO).
Who else is speaking for the RA? Only Ten. It seems strange that chris has nothing to say? And this place did start its change when he became moderator?
Well, it seems that everyone is pointing the finger at Tenspace for Choobus. I've seen several times when Tenspace came to Choobus's defense. I don't think he's to blame. I don't mean to speak for Tenspace, but if someone has a problem they should direct it at the person responsible. If he chooses not to respond, then I don't think there's anything anyone can do about it.:)

[reconciled]

Why are so many angry with Tenspace? It doesn't seem called for(IMHO).
Who else is speaking for the RA? Only Ten. It seems strange that chris has nothing to say? And this place did start its change when he became moderator?
Well, it seems that everyone is pointing the finger at Tenspace for Choobus. I've seen several times when Tenspace came to Choobus's defense. I don't think he's to blame. I don't mean to speak for Tenspace, but if someone has a problem they should direct it at the person responsible. If he chooses not to respond, then I don't think there's anything anyone can do about it.:)
You are correct, that is why I am asking Tenspace this question. If I have falsely treated him wrongly I want to know. So I will reserve my comments towards him until he answers.

[Tenspace]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Why are so many angry with Tenspace? It doesn't seem called for(IMHO).
Who else is speaking for the RA? Only Ten. It seems strange that chris has nothing to say? And this place did start its change when he became moderator?
Chris is on vacation, and will be back next week.

[Tenspace]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Your perception. Were you around before I was a moderator?

[Tenspace]

There's a side of this that no one sees. The Admin/Mods board. When Chris gets back, I'll ask if I can post a couple of the comments leveled in my direction with regard to Choobus.

What the hell, she won't mind. Here's a few:

I had been worried that you guys were either friends with choobus or afraid of being the object of his wrath.
--------
Honestly and I do mean honestly, I think you guys are too buddy-buddy with choobus to take a serious look at his behavior
--------
Also, the fact that there seems to be special consideration for this person (Choobus) makes me very uncomfortable.
--------
The biggest problem I can see is that I have mods that are favoring members and referring to other members as babies.
--------
So, if anyone here thinks I didn't stand up for Choobus, for several months, then (to use his vernacular) piss off. :(

Tenspace

[ocmpoma]

Ten - although I did mention you in my post, I did so only in reference to post #5. I do not hold you accountable for Choobus' time-out, etc. My post was intended more to simply state my opinion of the situation, and not to blame anyone - not even Chris. I apologize if it came across that way. I realize that being adversarial about the rules situation will not help to alter it, except for what I see as making it worse. I simply wanted to explain why I am against having such a set of rules.

I still disagree with post #5, by the way. If you wanted to point out definition mining, that's fine, and you're correct. But your statements to the effect that perhaps RA didn't mean raving in the sense that reconciled used are obviously incorrect. The "raving" in RA is exactly as reconciled said, and this is obvious when one reads RA's blog.

But that's just a side issue, and an extremely minor one at that. I agree that Choobus' constant queries regarding luxury were repetitive, boring, and mostly pointless. There are much better ways to point out theists' inanity and vacuity. I also understand that many were complaining about him and naturally accusing the mods / admin of taking sides. Unfortunately, the rules don't do much except enable an excuse to react to behavior in some individuals and ignore it in others. In short, they don't really change anything, since they aren't really enforced.
Of course, enforcing them means that the forums would have to, in effect, shut themselves down. That wouldn't help much. And completely ignoring any modicum of standards would lead to even more chaos than we had before we had mods (before we had mods, not before we had rules). Again, I don't think banning anyone for behavior that is not illegal or destructive is a good idea. I think leaving spamming theist's posts up so that others can see to just what levels they'll stoop is a good thing. But I'm not the usual type when it comes to such things. So I'd just like to put forth again that we should divide the forums into a policed area and a no-holds-barred one. I see this as the best solution.

[Eva]

ten's explanations, and the response by some members prove, yet again, that no good deed goes unpunished. chris made a decision (that she had put off many times before because the mods spoke in behalf of choobus) and she is the owner of this forums. ten and i enjoy our work here, and respect the owner too.

so, back off, people. the suggestions are all welcome, even the critisicim. but the desicion has been taken, and so be it. stop it with tenspace already!

[Waddlie]

I'm not afraid to stick my head above the parapet and take some shit for siding with the mods, but I do need to make myself clear. I supported some rules being instigated on this forum, but only because I was concerned with RA protecting itself, and not because I personally was offended by anything that went on. I felt that rules weren't well written but frankly, that wasn't my problem then and it isn't now.

Many of the more "senior" posters on this forum seem to have assigned themselves special celebrity status and treat this place like it's their own forum. It's not. It's RA's. I may be a "new member" according to the date I joined and the number of posts I've made, but in reality I've been lurking around here longer than many of those with 200+ posts. Don't think that because your name appears here more often it makes you one of a select few regulars, as I'm sure there are many hundreds of people who visit these boards every day without ever posting a word.

And as for Choobus, as I've already said, he had it coming. He'd been warned but he didn't want to play by the rules. I'd like to make it clear that I was not one of the people complaining about him. But for fuck's sake guys, this is the Raving Atheist, not the Raving Anarchist. He knew the rules. He ignored them. He now faces the consequences.

The right to freedom of speech means I can walk round my city late at night calling everyone I meet a c***. But when someone smacks me in the face, I'll only have myself to blame...

[Cap'n Awesome]

There's a side of this that no one sees. The Admin/Mods board. When Chris gets back, I'll ask if I can post a couple of the comments leveled in my direction with regard to Choobus.

What the hell, she won't mind. Here's a few:

I had been worried that you guys were either friends with choobus or afraid of being the object of his wrath.
--------
Honestly and I do mean honestly, I think you guys are too buddy-buddy with choobus to take a serious look at his behavior
--------
Also, the fact that there seems to be special consideration for this person (Choobus) makes me very uncomfortable.
--------
The biggest problem I can see is that I have mods that are favoring members and referring to other members as babies.
--------
So, if anyone here thinks I didn't stand up for Choobus, for several months, then (to use his vernacular) piss off. :(

Tenspace
Ten, that was Bullshit the moment it was written to you and you know it. How was Choobus ever favored? From what I know, he's recieved more moderation warnings then anyone. Ask yourself, does Miata really contribute more intellectually to the board then Choobus does? The answer is clearly no. If anything Choobus was railed against because a few whiney limp wristed crybabies had it out for him.

[Tenspace]

Cap'n, my comments stand. It was (this is my opinion, not Chris) old and tired. The favoritism was displayed in a private section of the forum accessible only by mods and the admin. I don't see how you can accurately comment on what went on there. I would think that Chris's comments stand for themselves. Did I say that the admin's decision was based on intellectual content? No. Did I initiate the past warnings? No. Did I keep this from happening three months ago? You tell me.

[Tenspace]

http://www.smellypoop.com/photos//Other/shit_happens.jpg

www.smellypoop.com
Thanks for the pic, reconciiled. It's always nice to know what other members look like.

[reconciled]

http://www.smellypoop.com/photos//Other/shit_happens.jpg

www.smellypoop.com
Thanks for the pic, reconciiled. It's always nice to know what other members look like.
Your welcome. I am good looking from the rear when crapping, if I do say so myself.

[Tenspace]

http://www.smellypoop.com/photos//Other/shit_happens.jpg

www.smellypoop.com
Thanks for the pic, reconciiled. It's always nice to know what other members look like.
Your welcome. I am good looking from the rear when crapping, if I do say so myself.
:lol:

[reconciled]

Tenspace,

I am sorry for blaming you with this whole mess. I am way to emotional. I know you are not a christian, but will you forgive me, seriously.

[Tenspace]

Tenspace,

I am sorry for blaming you with this whole mess. I am way to emotional. I know you are not a christian, but will you forgive me, seriously.
reconciled, I never really blamed you for anything. You spoke your mind. Nothing wrong with that.

[ProveIt]

Don't forget the other definitions, which may be more appropriate with regard to the Raving Atheist's original intent when picking a name. :)
:::: clears throat :::

Bullshtt

There are more suitable names for something claiming the 'prestigious' end of this definition spectrum.


While I think it's lame that Chewy has been banned for having a freakin opinion... I'll still continue to chime in with my two cents when I see fit. Will I do so as often as before, probably not. I find the whole banning on lack of morals stance to be a bit theistic for my liking. If it's not illegal it should not be against the rules. If your that much of a cry baby... go talk to God.
See my other post regarding my reason for pointing out reconciled's incomplete list of definitions.

Remember, Choobus was banned by Chris. I have taken shit from both sides on this. I initially attempted to stay out of things, but comments like yours and Ocmpoma's can't go unanswered.

It should be apparent that the admin of this site would rather not see so much crudity. Not everyone may agree. Those that are offended may move on. And the forum will change. Those who stay will say it's for the better, those who leave will say the place just isn't the same.
I may stay but it's sure as hell not because it's for the better. It's because I have little to do outside, I enjoy the company of geeks, and I enjoy a good challenge (which is exactly what Chewy does... whether anyone wants to believe it or not). Unfortunantly I don't feel the same need to respond to the challenges presented by a lot of posters. "Those that are offended may move on." So... Those that are offended by the current situation may move on... but those that are offended by being asked if they do anal... We will compromise what we stand for and cater to your desires. Hey, let's get everyone with an opinion out of their way and make room for more of them. Because that's what we need. More mundain, run of the mill, theistic thinking... It's so difficult when people don't agree, eh? Isn't that the point?

[ProveIt]

I have a question for you tenspace,

This place began its change when you became moderator, why is that?
Your perception. Were you around before I was a moderator?
The forums did change, as it seems, at what seems to be the same time that Ten became a mod. I do not believe that this has to do with Ten being mod. I believe that the reason that we picked up on the time of the changes was because Ten has the decency to try to 'talk' things out rather than the 'I'm the boss' attitude put forth by others. It may not be intentional, but it seems that this is the attitude being portrayed.


Well, it seems that everyone is pointing the finger at Tenspace for Choobus. I've seen several times when Tenspace came to Choobus's defense. I don't think he's to blame. I don't mean to speak for Tenspace, but if someone has a problem they should direct it at the person responsible. If he chooses not to respond, then I don't think there's anything anyone can do about it.:)
This is exactly the problem right now. The mods are saying no, no, no... don't direct opinions. But in order to have a respectful discussion isn't it necessary to have direction? This is supposed to be a forum, not a message board. I seem to remember distinction being made between the RA and a chat room maybe we could also use some clarification as to why we shouldn't discuss ideas unless done in general...

Many of the more "senior" posters on this forum seem to have assigned themselves special celebrity status and treat this place like it's their own forum. It's not. It's RA's. I may be a "new member" according to the date I joined and the number of posts I've made, but in reality I've been lurking around here longer than many of those with 200+ posts. Don't think that because your name appears here more often it makes you one of a select few regulars, as I'm sure there are many hundreds of people who visit these boards every day without ever posting a word.
Seriously... You think that the RA will survive with the 'lurkers' being the only ones here... if you're not posting you are observing. You are reading OUR WORDS. If you anger those that post and are left with only those that observe you may as well unplug your puter. No one thinks of themselves as 'celebrities' however we do have a respect for one another. Whether the 'new' observer notices the respect initially is not our concern. My opinion is that if you are taking offense you may not have read enough posts. I tend to think that those 'newbies' that get their noses out of joint just haven't been around long enough to get the tone. There is a tone, and those that are observing must enjoy it to a point... they are after all still here. And after reading for months some even man up and join in the conversation, strong, (sometimes) meaningful conversation.

There's a side of this that no one sees. The Admin/Mods board. When Chris gets back, I'll ask if I can post a couple of the comments leveled in my direction with regard to Choobus.

What the hell, she won't mind. Here's a few:

I had been worried that you guys were either friends with choobus or afraid of being the object of his wrath.
--------
Honestly and I do mean honestly, I think you guys are too buddy-buddy with choobus to take a serious look at his behavior
--------
Also, the fact that there seems to be special consideration for this person (Choobus) makes me very uncomfortable.
--------
The biggest problem I can see is that I have mods that are favoring members and referring to other members as babies.
--------
So, if anyone here thinks I didn't stand up for Choobus, for several months, then (to use his vernacular) piss off. :(

Tenspace
Keep in mind that when Chewy posted messages written to him from Chris she did not enjoy it at all...

[Ponderer]

This is exactly the problem right now. The mods are saying no, no, no... don't direct opinions. But in order to have a respectful discussion isn't it necessary to have direction? This is supposed to be a forum, not a message board. I seem to remember distinction being made between the RA and a chat room maybe we could also use some clarification as to why we shouldn't discuss ideas unless done in general...
You are correct, of course. I agree. I just thought Tenspace was getting a bad rap is all.

[Waddlie]

ProveIt,

I'm not defending the decision to ban Choobus, I'm defending the admin's right to do it. If Choobus didn't want to heed the warnings he was given, then tough shit on him. Perhaps the decision to ban him wasn't the best one. I had no problem with him myself.

I agree that pissing off the regular posters to please the lurkers would be a bad move. I didn't mean to insinuate that the lurkers should be given favour over the regular posters, I just wanted to point out that a few posters seem to consider themselves Charlie Big Potato, and should remember that they're not the only people who come here...

[reconciled]

ProveIt,

I'm not defending the decision to ban Choobus, I'm defending the admin's right to do it. If Choobus didn't want to heed the warnings he was given, then tough shit on him. Perhaps the decision to ban him wasn't the best one. I had no problem with him myself.

I agree that pissing off the regular posters to please the lurkers would be a bad move. I didn't mean to insinuate that the lurkers should be given favour over the regular posters, I just wanted to point out that a few posters seem to consider themselves Charlie Big Potato, and should remember that they're not the only people who come here...
"Charlie Big Potato" grew that way through anal leftovers.