Then don't you have to recognize that you have done the same thing? Forget the subject of disbelief for a moment, what about your own insistence that Christianity is the only religion with any validity?

The Islamic faith claims the Qur'an is the actual word of God. It is based on verbatim recital of the passages delivered to Mo' - so... what puzzles a lot of us is how Christians can so readily dismiss that – and every other religion but their own.

Christianity doesn't claim to have the *actual* word of God, right? Christianity admits that the words in the Bible are accounts from the perspective of people that *knew* Jesus.

From a completely objective point of view, it looks like Islam has a more concrete claim to be the true message of God.

So, aren't you just as guilty of self-congratulatory superiority as we are?

Cal - not for nothin', but what is with your spelling?

Crazy

No

Yes
No.

Yes, eons ago.

No.
It would be a bit much coming from someone who is not a physician, unless I knew something more. It would probably be fine to express concern and recommend a check-up.

Well, I wouldn't consider it an insult but my friend might.

How'd I do?

I don't, by any means, think that Christianity is the only religion with any validity! In fact, if it didn't share many principles and affinities with other religions, I would be sure it was made up. All us believers insist on is that where we diverge, we are right. While that sounds triumphalist, it must make sense, upon reflection. I mean, why would I be a Christian at all, if I didn't think it completely true?

Mohammad claimed that the Koran was dictated to him directly by Allah. No interpretations, no progressive understanding in the light of history and experience are permitted. It is stuck in the 6th century, with all that that implies. Now obviously, murder, adultery, etc. are as wrong today as they were then but there are many more aspects to it than our areas of agreement.

The Bible is made up of many books written by men, inspired we believe by, but not dictated to by God, in a number of languages over many centuries. Progressive revelation is fundamental to it. And yes, it culminates in the New Testament written by men who knew or knew the men who knew and accompanied Jesus in his ministry.

Christianity doesn't really need philosophical arguments to "prove" it. What is needed is belief that the writers are honest witnesses to what they say happened. Certainly the fact that over 2000 years, no one ever cleaned up the discrepancies to perfectly harmonize the 4 canonical gospel accounts is reassuring. The early Church didn't try to cover up things that could seem to weaken its case. Paul says very clearly in one of his letters that if Christ did not rise from the dead then none of what they preach has any meaning; they are just pitiable fools.

So, Christ died for men; Mohammad killed for Allah. I like my version better.

Yep. Too many late nights, not enough coffee and donuts. Or was that cocaine and hookers? Hm...

Not enough cocaine and hookers? In Florida?? I don't believe you.

I'm a Colombian dyslexic, , living in Arizona, that is in a hurry when typing with two fingers...:)

Well, he IS in the panhandle. It is a little provincial, if you catch my drift...:lol: Couldn't resist it, Ten. I bet you are more cosmopolitan than I am, truth be known.;)

Lily wrote "Crazy" when I asked:

"Tell me. What do you call a person that accepts absurd DELUSIONAL fairy tales as if they were REALITY and abides by its irrational teachings? "

I'm gald you agree with me religious folks are crazy and not much different than the schizophrenic and TLE. You must realize ALL religious beliefs systems WITHOUT exception accept irrational delusional fairy tale teachings as if they were REALITY.

I would suggest you connect the dots and read about those questions you answer no. You'll be extremely happy you did. Here is an investigative report you'll find fascinating, as long as you do not readily dismiss it as false without reading it. Check all of the sources and you'll find them accurate. Enjoy:

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/esumma.html

I knew I was going to make you happy, only to let you down. Believers in absurd, delusional fairy tales are, I avow, crazy. But I don't accept that as a definition of religion. So I am afraid that I misled you.

I have also long been familiar with Carotta's thesis. It is a bit of a stretch.

It is a strech because you are ignorant of Roman history, the life of Caesar, the Cult of Divus iulius, Egyptian/Roman religion, Greek language and mistranslations that occurred, etc etc.

What is religious faith? How do you define it? How did it originated? What are religious beliefs base on? Are they based on FACTS? ..or delusions that MUST be accepted by faith? Is it a reality? Doesn't religious faith dissipates with knowledge? Don't: Trauma, psychoactive substances, temperature, food, lack of oxygen, lack of rest, disease, temporal lobe stimulation AFFECTS the PERCEPTION of religious beliefs? Don't ALL religious beliefs systems have an INVISIBLE FRIEND as the PRINCIPAL FOCUS of adoration and who had STABLISHED ( via books, signs, apparitions, oral traditions etc) a dogma that must be OBEYED by the believer and INTERPRETED by the Priest, Iman, Rabbi, Minister, Shaman etc?...you need to learn lots....:cool:

Wow, some turbo-posting has been going on today. Lily, thanks for your answers to my questions. We don't get enough Christians on this board, and I think I understand why... honestly, what do the rest of you atheists think is going to happen here? Do you have a lot of experience converting people by insulting their intelligence? Lily is going to come away from this discussion with the absolutely correct opinion that most of the atheists she's met are insensitive assholes. We atheists can go to a lot of work proving we're moral, but "moral" is a poor substitute for "polite."

Really? I'd spend time with a rude moral person long before I'd spend time with a polite immoral Christian.

Remember, we atheist must be also HONEST using deductive reasoning without sacrificing politness. If some one says it is a little stretch that the earth had ONE continent named pangea but has NOT read the history of the earth, WHY should we be polite a say NOTHING, instead of suggesting to this person to get educated reading books about earth history?

This is the problem today, Neurologist, and many other scientists are AFRAID to say to the world that religious beliefs which are based on ABSURD DELUSIONS are no different that the beliefs of schizophrenic and people suffering from mental illness which also based their beliefs on delusions! These afraid, scared, intellectual COWARDS do not stand up agains those obviously mentally ill folks ( the religious), which are causing tremendous damage to us all. Let us just look at the mentally ill retard we have for POTUS! Does anyone in the Neruological community notices it?

Been politically correct is not the answer to knowledge. If someone does not have the knowledge of the subject been discuss but pretend he/she does, the person is simply ignorant. Remember, we are ALL born ignorant. I'm ignorant of accounting, real state, business, stock market and millions of other things, but I have the intelligence to remain silent and do RESEARCH on the subject I know nothing about before speaking, and if I'm called ignorant, they are right to do so because I'm...so, where is the offense? Remember, the truth will set one free.....been polite while sacrificing the truth, does not...:)

so, lily goes to the doctor because she has developed two small green circles, one on each of her inner thighs. The doctor is mystified; he's never seen such a thing. He gives her a battery of allergy tests, but nothing comes up. So he orders extensive blood tests, and still nothing. Confused, he consults his colleagues but they too are stumped. He tries changing her diet, cutting out various things, all to no avail. A dermatologist is also unable to help. After months of testing she comes in and the doctor askes her a question:

do you have a boyfriend lily? he asks.
well yes, yes I do she says, in an embarrassed Christian sort of manner.
well, the doctor says,somewhat irritated, tell him his ear rings are not made of real gold.