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-   -   Hi there. I Believe in God. (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16743)

Broga 12-12-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 651526)
If we are supposed to just interpret this bible thing, why did god not just leave the pages blank and then guide you into writing his will Egor? What a wast eof time to dictate a book that wasn't able to be read, but needs interpretation, without any clarification , mind you, as to whether you are interpreting it right. You puzzle me and make my ball sack itch.

It is something of a curiosity that an omniscient and omnipotent God is unable to communicate clearly what he wants. The result is that even amongst his followers they cannot agree amognst themselves what he means or wants. This same God contradicts himself within a few verses time after time; he gives different versions of Jesus' i.e. his own birth; and the stories about the birth are shown to be untrue by historical records of Emperors and governors. The inescapable conclusion is that the New Testament, including Egor's inerrant truth bit of it, has been cobbled together at different times and by different authors in a failed attempt to fulfill prophesy and build up the Messiah.

The academic biblical scholars have no problem in acknowledging this. The problem comes with the ignorant and gullible believers such as Egor. He "sees through a glass darkly" and is shocked into a dull awareness that something is badly wrong. He cannot debate this, of course, as he lives in a religious context where debate and an honest exchange of views which may lead to a shift in perspective never happens. All that is allowed is acceptance of the bible regardless of fact or logic. However, Egor is now in a panic. He has an inchoate and terrifying sense that he has spent his life believing nonsense. As a result he spits with ignorant fury at those who dare lay the facts before him.

nkb 12-12-2011 01:34 PM

Quote:

Egor wrote (Post 651475)
And then I begin to think about what Jesus did in the desert and how he turned Satan down when Satan offered him all the kingdoms of the world, and then I see that the discordant lineage is actually telling me that Christ is at odds with the worldís way of acquiring power, that real power comes from what we can turn down, not what we can accumulate.

But, Jesus is God, isn't he? So, how is that a big deal to turn down Satan's offer, since God surely knows his nemesis, and wouldn't fall for the empty promise?

What's so great about that?

If a homeless guy comes up to me on the street, and offers me Bill Gates' money, how much of an accomplishment is it for me to dismiss him?

ILOVEJESUS 12-12-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

nkb wrote (Post 651550)
But, Jesus is God, isn't he? So, how is that a big deal to turn down Satan's offer, since God surely knows his nemesis, and wouldn't fall for the empty promise?

What's so great about that?

If a homeless guy comes up to me on the street, and offers me Bill Gates' money, how much of an accomplishment is it for me to dismiss him?

And Satan is only doing what god has alread decreed him to do according to this genius remember.......

Philboid Studge 12-12-2011 02:25 PM

If Jayzus had accepted all the kingdoms he might have prevented a lot of war and slavery and meshugganah, being the Prince of Peas and what-not.

Maybe he just didn't want the responsibility ? Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown and all that. But what a pussy .

Egor 12-12-2011 02:39 PM

Quote:

Broga wrote (Post 651497)
Egor: You lack both honesty and intelligence. Can't even a fool such as yourself understand that if words are not accepted to mean what they are commonly understood to mean then communication becomes impossible.



Impossible for you, but apparently quite meaningful to me. Sorry, you just donít get it. Your spirit isnít equipped to read the Gospels. Youíre too concrete. You lack the ability to make the connections, see the symbolisms, and delve into the Word of God more abstractly. Youíre a spiritual kindergartner. :\

Quote:

Everyone just invents their own meaning as you do and all understanding disappears. You, of course, having made a statement which is proved to be wrong do not discuss. You merely attach your own unique and idiotic meaning to words. Are you ill? Paranoid perhaps?


Youíre jealous and bitter. You thought you were so clever and had a slam dunk case only to find out you inadvertently pointed out one of the greatest aspects of the Gospels.

Quote:

Broga wrote (Post 651498)
You really are a clown. I only used the geneologies to keep it simple for you. There are many contradictions, which I could quote, in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Don't you read your own bible? Your ignorance of what you so confidently assert would, in an honest person, be amazing.



Bring it on.

Quote:

The fact is you are terrified by being faced with the truth. You fear that your lifetime of believing lies is crumbling before you. You know I am right and you can't bear that fact. I am giving you sleepless nights because you are in a corner and have no way out.


How sad for you. You took your best shot and it just missed the backboard entirely. Hey, but donít give up, keep trying. I really love you for trying.

Davin 12-12-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Egor wrote (Post 651555)
[Bunch of bullshit in a pathetic attempt to look condescending.]

lol

Egor 12-12-2011 02:52 PM

Quote:

nkb wrote (Post 651550)
But, Jesus is God, isn't he? So, how is that a big deal to turn down Satan's offer, since God surely knows his nemesis, and wouldn't fall for the empty promise?

What's so great about that?

If a homeless guy comes up to me on the street, and offers me Bill Gates' money, how much of an accomplishment is it for me to dismiss him?

I don't think it was an empty promise. I think Satan was telling the truth: "All this has been given to me, and I can give it to whomever I choose." And the temptation wasn't to stop being God, the temptation was to become fully carnal. If Jesus had chosen to do that, The Father probably would have gone along with it. But apparently Jesus thought to delay gratification for a much greater eternal kingdom was the better move. And this is one of the main lessons we see in Jesus' temptations.

Because don't forget, we are to become what Christ was. That's the whole purpose of eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ at communion. If and when we do, we could gather real worldly power. But we are supposed to come to the understanding that this world is not worth it. Because you can't serve God and mamon (money, power, the world).

So, had Jesus gone that way, God would have honored it, I have no doubt, but he never could have shown us the way to the father. Out of love for us, he turned Satan down. He saved us rather than taking worldly power unto himself. He saved us because his Father loves us and he loves his Father enough to do his mission on earth. It's hard to comprehend someone doing that, but then look at the power is proves. We're talking about royalty here, royalty from the kingdom of God, not from an earthly court where everyone looks out for their own best interests.

ILOVEJESUS 12-12-2011 02:59 PM

Fella are you high? I mean do you really believe what you are writing, or are you just thinking of the most childish shite with which to respond? I definately believe you are winding us all up. I cannot believe that you would twist yourself into such knots to try and make sense of a fairy story. Come on just be honest, you are winding us up right?

Philboid Studge 12-12-2011 03:17 PM

I think Father Poe is honestly dense. He does have the crude intelligence to note "one of the greatest aspects of the Gospel" : Everyone just invents their own meaning ... and all understanding disappears.

Irreligious 12-12-2011 04:21 PM

I kinda feel sorry for these guys when they show their full-on crazy sides. What is anybody supposed to say to them when they act like this?

What do you suppose would happen if we all suddenly humored them? If we could pull that off, would they be satisfied and move on to haunt some other atheist forum? Probably not, eh?

Seriously, what are we supposed to say to a mad man that he could respect?

Michael 12-12-2011 04:57 PM

Since Egor seems to be suggesting that all inaccuracies in that bible are god telling people secret messages, we can also suppose (quite simply):

[note - for the purposes of this I am going to come from the angle of thinking that "god is real and wrote the bible"]

1 - God wanted us to find the inaccuracies.
2 - God wanted us to question said inaccuracies.

We can, then, from that, suppose that god wants us to question the bible.

Now if we do some egor-spinning, we can jump right ahead to saying that means that god didn't want us believing the bible. He wanted us to live our lives free of his bullshit and superstition. And all the christians failed.

Now, I don't have time right now but I'm sure I could find a bible verse to support this idea. Though that would mean actually reading the bible and if I'm being honest, it's a boring read. I mean, it's no Harry Potter.

You may say that god talks about how people having faith in him and blah blah is how people get into heaven, but you also have stipulated that the contradictions in the bible suggest god is telling us something. Therefore we can see that his messages of personal questioning versus his messages of personal faith are the greatest contradiction in the bible. And what did you tell us, egor, that we should do with contradictions in the bible? That's right, question them!

So despite what's written in the book, god seems to actually be telling us that only the fool believes it.

So you can't have it both ways. Either god is telling us to question his word, or he's telling us to believe it wholly. You can't have it one way when it suits you and then the other when it suits you, even though I have no doubt that (should you be man enough to answer) will try to do this. You'll be very slippery about it too, no doubt.

Or you'll just try and brush this off, and we'll know you've got nothing. Either way, as far as I'm concerned, you failed.

ghoulslime 12-12-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Egor wrote (Post 651557)
I don't think it was an empty promise. I think Satan was telling the truth: "All this has been given to me, and I can give it to whomever I choose." And the temptation wasn't to stop being God, the temptation was to become fully carnal. If Jesus had chosen to do that, The Father probably would have gone along with it. But apparently Jesus thought to delay gratification for a much greater eternal kingdom was the better move. And this is one of the main lessons we see in Jesus' temptations.

Because don't forget, we are to become what Christ was. That's the whole purpose of eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ at communion. If and when we do, we could gather real worldly power. But we are supposed to come to the understanding that this world is not worth it. Because you can't serve God and mamon (money, power, the world).

So, had Jesus gone that way, God would have honored it, I have no doubt, but he never could have shown us the way to the father. Out of love for us, he turned Satan down. He saved us rather than taking worldly power unto himself. He saved us because his Father loves us and he loves his Father enough to do his mission on earth. It's hard to comprehend someone doing that, but then look at the power is proves. We're talking about royalty here, royalty from the kingdom of God, not from an earthly court where everyone looks out for their own best interests.

Save your babbling nonsense for your mental health care provider, you insane person!

ghoulslime 12-12-2011 05:01 PM

Quote:

Broga wrote (Post 651541)
It is something of a curiosity that an omniscient and omnipotent God is unable to communicate clearly what he wants. The result is that even amongst his followers they cannot agree amognst themselves what he means or wants. This same God contradicts himself within a few verses time after time; he gives different versions of Jesus' i.e. his own birth; and the stories about the birth are shown to be untrue by historical records of Emperors and governors. The inescapable conclusion is that the New Testament, including Egor's inerrant truth bit of it, has been cobbled together at different times and by different authors in a failed attempt to fulfill prophesy and build up the Messiah.

The academic biblical scholars have no problem in acknowledging this. The problem comes with the ignorant and gullible believers such as Egor. He "sees through a glass darkly" and is shocked into a dull awareness that something is badly wrong. He cannot debate this, of course, as he lives in a religious context where debate and an honest exchange of views which may lead to a shift in perspective never happens. All that is allowed is acceptance of the bible regardless of fact or logic. However, Egor is now in a panic. He has an inchoate and terrifying sense that he has spent his life believing nonsense. As a result he spits with ignorant fury at those who dare lay the facts before him.

As a humanitarian gesture for the greater good of society, Egor's syphilitic mother should have her anus corked in order to prevent the possibility of being impregnated again with another slimy little asshole baby like Egor.

Egor 12-12-2011 10:03 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 651558)
Fella are you high? I mean do you really believe what you are writing, or are you just thinking of the most childish shite with which to respond? I definately believe you are winding us all up. I cannot believe that you would twist yourself into such knots to try and make sense of a fairy story. Come on just be honest, you are winding us up right?



I'm sorry you're incapable of understanding. Maybe you donít have a sufficient IQ to read the Gospels. Apparently you have to be spoon-fed everything you ever come to know. You are intellectually dependent. You are incapable of generating new knowledge.

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 651562)
Since Egor seems to be suggesting that all inaccuracies in that bible are god telling people secret messages, we can also suppose (quite simply):

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 651562)

[note - for the purposes of this I am going to come from the angle of thinking that "god is real and wrote the bible"]

1 - God wanted us to find the inaccuracies.
2 - God wanted us to question said inaccuracies.

We can, then, from that, suppose that god wants us to question the bible.

Well, of course. Seriously, you didnít know that?

Quote:

Now if we do some egor-spinning, we can jump right ahead to saying that means that god didn't want us believing the bible. He wanted us to live our lives free of his bullshit and superstition. And all the christians failed.

Maybe the vast majority of them have failed. But they are still saved. The thief on the cross next to Jesus who was saved knew only that Jesus was from God, that he, the thief, was guilty of sin and deserved death, and that Jesus did not. Even an imbecile can find the humility to see God and be saved. They donít have to unravel all the mysteries of the Gospel. Thatís my job and the job of some other people, too. Maybe even you if you turn and repent before you die and go to hell.

Quote:

Now, I don't have time right now but I'm sure I could find a bible verse to support this idea. Though that would mean actually reading the bible and if I'm being honest, it's a boring read. I mean, it's no Harry Potter.


Some lines just bear repeating: ďÖ it's a boring read. I mean, it's no Harry Potter.Ē

Quote:

You may say that god talks about how people having faith in him and blah blah is how people get into heaven, but you also have stipulated that the contradictions in the bible suggest god is telling us something. Therefore we can see that his messages of personal questioning versus his messages of personal faith are the greatest contradiction in the bible. And what did you tell us, egor, that we should do with contradictions in the bible? That's right, question them!


Youíre babbling.

Quote:

So despite what's written in the book, god seems to actually be telling us that only the fool believes it.


There are mysteries, puzzles, and riddles. Most of what Jesus said in parables is intended to keep people like you from ever finding the truth and being saved. Those arenít just my pretty words: thatís specifically stated in the Gospel.

I donít know why you bother, really. What do you care about the Bible? You donít even believe in God. Your wandering around a dark forest and beating your head against trees trying to remember what the capitol of Uzbekistan is.

Quote:

So you can't have it both ways. Either god is telling us to question his word, or he's telling us to believe it wholly. You can't have it one way when it suits you and then the other when it suits you, even though I have no doubt that (should you be man enough to answer) will try to do this. You'll be very slippery about it too, no doubt.


Slippery or not, the Bible is for me, not for you. The Bible is for believers. Atheists are light years away from needing the Bible. Jesus never tried to prove the existence of God. He just assumed it. Until you believe in God, The Bible is just another book on the shelf to you.

Quote:

Or you'll just try and brush this off, and we'll know you've got nothing. Either way, as far as I'm concerned, you failed.


The man asked about the genealogy of Joseph, and I showed him how essential it was in unifying the Gospel message. I showed him it is not at all an error, but a very intentional writing. I really shouldnít have, because atheists canít handle that sort of spiritual food. You all are like patients on life support. You donít need solid food.

It would have been better if I had just said, ďYou donít believe in God, so donít worry about the Bible.Ē

But I had to show off. :rolleyes:

Kinich Ahau 12-12-2011 10:48 PM

What? Showing off by displaying how easily you can reel off that load of twaddle.
EGOr, maybe you should get back on the meds you fucking lunatic.


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