Raving Atheists Forum

Raving Atheists Forum (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/index.php)
-   Atheist vs Theist (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Argument to satisfy atheistic and theistic sensibilities (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17049)

Andrew66 03-30-2013 11:21 AM

Argument to satisfy atheistic and theistic sensibilities
 
Hello Atheist and Theist alike!!. :\

Eureka!, I think I've found an argument which should be acceptable to any Atheist or Theist alike.

1) God is defined in all three monotheistic religions as an eternal (uncreated) personal being who purposively created our material world. Further, it is taught that at a minimum belief in the existance of such a God is a requirement to achieve a desirable afterlife.

2) While there is no rationale or compelling evidence which asserts God's existence, there are yet many unsolved questions in the physical world where the existence of such a God may provide a possible answer (eg. explanation of origin of life begetting universe/multiverse as first cause). In other words the premiss of God existence holds explanatory power.

3) Therefore, as existence in a God cannot be ruled out, and God's existence hold explanatory power, one can - if one desires - HOPE that a God exists.

4) HOPE in the existence of something is the weakest form of belief. For example, I do not "hope" that A Santa Claus exists, but one can HOPE that a God exists.

5) One can be an Atheist - but still HOPE that a God exists. For example, An atheist can say - "As there is no evidence for God I don't believe that God exists - but I hope I'm wrong".

6) A world view compatible with posit (5) - given that in the unlikely event a God does exist - can according to religious teachings provide the atheist a desirable afterlife.

ILOVEJESUS 03-30-2013 12:41 PM

What of the fuckiest ?

ILOVEJESUS 03-30-2013 12:41 PM

I do hope this shit is not real too! I hope Battlestar Galactica happens, or Buck Rogers. Wilma Dearing rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Andrew66 03-30-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 672893)
I do hope this shit is not real too! .

Hi ILOVEJESUS

If you hope that the existence of God is not true, than it would seem you are just a very tiny wee bit worried that God may be true. Why is that?

dogpet 03-30-2013 03:58 PM

Andrew, if there is, then that's an entirely unfair situation, we can only go on what we have in front of us.
What you propose is as useful as wishing for an extra life in chocolate heaven. Grow up ffs.

Andrew66 03-30-2013 05:14 PM

Quote:

dogpet wrote (Post 672895)
Andrew, if there is, then that's an entirely unfair situation, we can only go on what we have in front of us.

Dogpet, I think I'm actually basically in agreement with you.

I agree that it would be unfair that a requirement to recieve the benefit of a desirable afterlife is a belief in a God's existance - since such God has not provided any compelling evidence of his/her existence! Indeed, by this requirement all rationally minded people would be doomed to hell - and that would be unfair!

That is why I'm arguing hypothetically speaking of course (assuming God's existence) that perhaps the religious belief bar is lowered to HOPE (which is a bare minimum level of belief) to make the requirement fair.

What I mean is, it would not be unfair if God only expected an individual at time of judgement to proclaim that he/she had at least a HOPE in God's existence. This would be like saying "I believed in you (God) to the limit that I possibly could, given the evidence I was presented - i.e. I HOPED that you would exist.

Indeed I've notice when one attends a Christian church, the word Hope is often interchanged with faith - and belief. There is a big difference - A Hope in God's existence is attainable to the rationale person, while faith, or a substantial belief, to anyone who has really examined the evidence (or lack of) is of course not.

So the moral of the story... if you die and find yourself presented before Jesus Christ at the great white throne room to recieve judgement - and he asks you if you believed in him - say "I hoped you'd exist" (meaning you held a bare minimum of belief - belief nonetheless) - then you should be - at least according to religious teachings - OK!! ;)

ILOVEJESUS 03-31-2013 04:41 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672894)
Hi ILOVEJESUS

If you hope that the existence of God is not true, than it would seem you are just a very tiny wee bit worried that God may be true. Why is that?

Where did I say I hope God isn't real? I stated that the question is absurd and of no difference to me hoping there is a Father Christmas to cut my Christmas spending down. Or hope that in 500 years a man frozen in space returns to Earth to live in a time that is not his own, Biddy Biddy Biddy. Why hope there is a God? What God would I hope for? Would my hope God be the same as yours? Should I also hope Unicorns exist? Hoping there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow serves what purpose? Atheists do not believe in a God. Trying to muddy that water just gets your knickers dirty.

Michael 03-31-2013 05:37 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672896)

So the moral of the story... if you die and find yourself presented before Jesus Christ at the great white throne room to recieve judgement - and he asks you if you believed in him - say "I hoped you'd exist" (meaning you held a bare minimum of belief - belief nonetheless) - then you should be - at least according to religious teachings - OK!! ;)


What if I die and end up in front of Allah, or Ganesha?
"I'm sorry, I didn't believe in you but I did hope Jesus would be real!"


Right. I bet you're convinced by Pascal's Wager, too.

Smellyoldgit 03-31-2013 08:03 AM

Andrew was a boring cunt when he first dropped by.
I hoped he'd learn to not be such a tedious fool, but it looks like I'm out of luck.

Kinich Ahau 03-31-2013 08:16 AM

I'm hopeless as well.

Andrew66 03-31-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 672902)
Why hope there is a God? What God would I hope for?

Why hope there is a God?

I"m sure you'll agree that one of the strongest drives we humans have is to survive. Unless you are presently suicidal - you want to live. I think most would agree - death - which on a naturalistic view means the ends to one's very existence (no more sex, drugs and rock and roll!!) -sucks.

So how do we escape death?. At present with science and medicine we can't. At least I think avoidance of death (by replacing body parts etc. - or storing one's essence in a computer when our bodies give out) is likely not going to happen in our generation, and even if it does - only the very richest of us may afford to pay for the service!

It just so happens that drastic claims were made by key individuals at select times throughout - namely Jesus Christ and his apostles, and others such as Mohammed. Basically they stated that they had reveiled communication from God (that alleged powerful entity defined as the creator of the universe) which addressed the concerns of a promissed afterlife.

I'll just cite three such key claims - which have been historicaly recorded.

John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life".

John 11:25-26 "Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die"

Mark 16:15-16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

So in case you've been sleeping at the wheel, its these types of claims (as irrational as they appear - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence after all) which have driven billions upon billions of people to religion! People want to escape death - and these claims (or similar claims like these), are at present humanities only presented HOPE to do so!

My only point on this blog is to point out that I recognize that it is unfair to ask a rationale person to believe in God (such as the above three testimonies mandate to achieve an afterlife), as a belief in God - without evidence of God's existence - is irrational.

That is why I suggest that it might be OK to just HOPE that God exists (as HOPE is the weakest form of belief) - thus satisfying - to a bare minimum - the religious mandates.

Which God to believe in? - very hard question. Basically - if you place any weight in religious historical claims which have achieved great impact factor, its between The Christian God Jehovah (along with God's Son Jesus Christ - and the Holy Spirit of God - they are professed work as a team called the TRINITY) and the Muslim God Allah.

Both Christians and Muslims accept the historical records contained in the BIBLE as the holy inspired word of GOD.

Andrew66 03-31-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 672905)
What if I die and end up in front of Allah, or Ganesha?
"I'm sorry, I didn't believe in you but I did hope Jesus would be real!"

MIchael, you are adressing a major debate which has raged between Christians, Muslims, and Jews for a very long time.

I'm not an expert on the more eastern religions such as Hinduism and Budhism, but I don't think that these religions have made any historical claims that you would even meet their God for judgement - so I would focus my attention on choice between the three great monotheistic religions.

In answer to your question what I recommendtuation, regardless of which God you face, is to simply state that you Hoped for the existence of God the Creator (along with promiss of a heavenly afterlife) as this belief is common between the Jews, Christians and Muslims. If the God is offended you didn't recite belief in him perfectly by correct name, simply state:

In the case that the Christian God is real - that please forgive my inability to resolve this issue, but if Jesus did die on the cross as a mechanism for our forgiveness of sins I appreciate that and am thankful for his sacrifice. I have wondered about this story, and have been hopeful of its truth.

In the case the Muslim God is real - that please forgive my inability to resolve this issue, but I fundamentally hoped for the existence of one God the Creator - and now that I know I am pleased to call him Allah.

In the case the Jewish God is real - that please forgive my inability to resolve this issue, but I fundamentally hoped for the existence of one God the Creator - and now that I know I am please to call him Jehovah.

I can't see how which ever God could be too mad with you if you are armed with these concepts and remarks upon meeting him/her.

The key may very well be that an individual would be in trouble if they said

"I hoped you wouldn't exist". This would imply the individual was guilty of evil doings and was afraid of God's existence and possible punishment in the afterlife)

or

"I firmly had the postive belief that you didn't exist". This is being an Atheist with a capital A. A God may see that as the individual holding an arrogant and ungrateful natures - no offence!!

Michael, are you an Atheist with a capital A, or a lower case a. ?

Cheers

Andrew66

Michael 03-31-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672911)
Michael, are you an Atheist with a capital A, or a lower case a. ?

Depends if it's at the start of a sentence or not.


Quote:

"I firmly had the postive belief that you didn't exist". This is being an Atheist with a capital A. A God may see that as the individual holding an arrogant and ungrateful natures - no offence!!
You have shown now, over at least two different threads, that you have absolutely no idea what atheists think. You have developed a classical "strawman" idea for certain parts*, overly simplified on others, and grouped together ideas as being central to atheism that are simply not the case.
You are arrogant about your ideas and don't seem to actually care what we have to say about it, hoping rather to "impart your wisdom down to us" rather than take in the faults we may find. You are arrogant and ungrateful - no offence!!





*"The positive belief god definitely does not exist" is a very rare idea, that most atheists - myself and most on this site included - do not hold. It is a gross mis-representation designed to be easier refuted than the actual beliefs most atheists have.

Michael 03-31-2013 03:04 PM

Upon reflection, I've come to think that you probably won't grasp at the nuances in my post, so I will break it down a little. My point was two-fold:

1) Saying something offensive and then adding "no offence!" to it does not remove the offensiveness of the statement, nor does it absolve you from saying offensive things. You don't want to offend people? Don't say offensive things. Rather, adding that to the end shows that you knew your statement was offensive enough to go to the effort of telling people "no offense" but did not care about those people enough to not actually offend them. That in itself is offensive.

2) You don't actually understand what atheism is. There is no such thing as "capital Atheism" and "lower-case atheism". There are atheists with differing ideas about gods, some DO even go so far as to say "I am absolutely certain that a god does not exist", but a lot - myself included - see the idea of a god as simply unnecessary, as such until sufficient evidence is given, there is no need to believe in one. We do not "hope" for a god to be true and could not make ourselves do so. For you to think that an omnipotent god would be fooled by our pretending to hope they existed is ridiculous.

dogpet 03-31-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672896)

That is why I'm arguing hypothetically speaking of course (assuming God's existence) that perhaps the religious belief bar is lowered to HOPE (which is a bare minimum level of belief) to make the requirement fair.



Because a hope for anything other than the celestial pillow would be just as viable, while not enabling liars on earth who gain influence & money from peddling invisible afterlifes.
We've had a few on here trying to encourage cristain enablement. To me it's the lowest form of missionary work, & that makes it pretty low. Hang your head in shame.

nkb 03-31-2013 07:42 PM

Could we have just nipped this whole argument in the bud by pointing out that point #2, as presented by Andrew, is absolute nonsense?

Saying the premise of God has explanatory powers is the same as saying that my farts may be keeping the universe from self-destructing has explanatory powers.

So, congratulations, out of 6 points, you managed to get half of one right. Your mommy must be very proud.

Andrew66 03-31-2013 10:15 PM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 672915)
You have shown now, over at least two different threads, that you have absolutely no idea what atheists think. .

And how do you know? You state repeatedly that Atheists all have differing views and opinions and that I cannot therefore speak for them or assert a viewpoint on their behalf - so how can YOU claim now that YOU know what Atheists think.?


Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 672915)
*"The positive belief god definitely does not exist" is a very rare idea, that most atheists - myself and most on this site included - do not hold. .

I agree - because the assertion is obviously foolish. But if I said that you would cry "how do I know" but then when you say it it is perfectly fine.

And who cares anyway - your BS is imaterial to the subject matter at hand, and you make it unnecessarily hard to have any kind of meaningful and respectful dialogue.

Andrew66 03-31-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 672917)
Upon reflection, I've come to think that you probably won't grasp at the nuances in my post, so I will break it down a little. My point was two-fold:

1) Saying something offensive and then adding "no offence!" to it does not remove the offensiveness of the statement, nor does it absolve you from saying offensive things. You don't want to offend people? Don't say offensive things. Rather, adding that to the end shows that you knew your statement was offensive enough to go to the effort of telling people "no offense" but did not care about those people enough to not actually offend them. That in itself is offensive.

2) You don't actually understand what atheism is. There is no such thing as "capital Atheism" and "lower-case atheism". There are atheists with differing ideas about gods, some DO even go so far as to say "I am absolutely certain that a god does not exist", but a lot - myself included - see the idea of a god as simply unnecessary, as such until sufficient evidence is given, there is no need to believe in one. We do not "hope" for a god to be true and could not make ourselves do so. For you to think that an omnipotent god would be fooled by our pretending to hope they existed is ridiculous.

Hi Michael
With regards to (1) You are right about it being totally rude to say an offensive thing and then saying no-offence after. I sort of realized that when I wrote it (in fact its actually one of my pet peaves), but was just too lazy to rewrite the sentence. My appologies.

2) I actually do understand what Atheism is. I understand that some may be considered as strong Agnostics (who believe there is unlikely a God, or have a simple lack of belief in a God do to lack of evidence) and others - as you seem to agree from your other thread more rarely - hold the most positive and extreme belief that there is no God. Was I wrong?

However I think (with all do respect) that you are over speaking for your compatriots when you state
Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 672917)
We do not "hope" for a god to be true and could not make ourselves do so .

. This is clearly an assumption on your part (how do you know what all Atheists think?? - are you there chief spokesperson) and I don't at the moment at least accept it.

Andrew66 03-31-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

dogpet wrote (Post 672918)
Because a hope for anything other than the celestial pillow would be just as viable, while not enabling liars on earth who gain influence & money from peddling invisible afterlifes.
We've had a few on here trying to encourage cristain enablement. To me it's the lowest form of missionary work, & that makes it pretty low. Hang your head in shame.

All I can say is that just because some abuse the desire many individuals have for the HOPE in God (eg. promissed afterlife etc.), this has no barring on whether there is any truth to an assertion that God exists. God either exists or not, irrespective of how the world conducts its affairs relating to the issue.

Having said that, I do see your point that if God doesn't exist, then peddling the concept may dupe indivdiduals to get hooked into religion, and once indoctrinated they may start to donate money (and that would be a shame). However I suspect you may agree that the write to free speach and write to practice religion in our country seems to trump the right to shield people from religion (unless you lived in the old USSR under Stalin, or Naxi Germany under Hitler).

Michael 03-31-2013 11:44 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672925)
2) I actually do understand what Atheism is. I understand that some may be considered as strong Agnostics (who believe there is unlikely a God, or have a simple lack of belief in a God do to lack of evidence) and others - as you seem to agree from your other thread more rarely - hold the most positive and extreme belief that there is no God. Was I wrong?

That's better. None of the A/a malarky next time, please. I would also - if I had to find objections - bring up that you appear to be carefully wording to make it appear as though the margin of "agnostic" atheists and "gnostic" atheists are much closer to each other than they are.


Quote:

However I think (with all do respect) that you are over speaking for your compatriots when you state . This is clearly an assumption on your part (how do you know what all Atheists think?? - are you there chief spokesperson) and I don't at the moment at least accept it.
I do not know what all atheists think. I know what the atheists think who have told me what they think, and I know what I as an atheist think.

When someone attempts to represent atheists as thinking something that goes against what I know myself and others think as atheists, then I can object to that.

My usage of colloquial "we", in this case was perhaps not the best choice. If I'm going to have at you for misleading rhetoric, it's only fair I hold myself to the same accord.

ILOVEJESUS 04-01-2013 02:54 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672910)
Why hope there is a God?

I"m sure you'll agree that one of the strongest drives we humans have is to survive. Unless you are presently suicidal - you want to live. I think most would agree - death - which on a naturalistic view means the ends to one's very existence (no more sex, drugs and rock and roll!!) -sucks.

So how do we escape death?. At present with science and medicine we can't. At least I think avoidance of death (by replacing body parts etc. - or storing one's essence in a computer when our bodies give out) is likely not going to happen in our generation, and even if it does - only the very richest of us may afford to pay for the service!

It just so happens that drastic claims were made by key individuals at select times throughout - namely Jesus Christ and his apostles, and others such as Mohammed. Basically they stated that they had reveiled communication from God (that alleged powerful entity defined as the creator of the universe) which addressed the concerns of a promissed afterlife.

I'll just cite three such key claims - which have been historicaly recorded.

John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life".

John 11:25-26 "Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die"

Mark 16:15-16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

So in case you've been sleeping at the wheel, its these types of claims (as irrational as they appear - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence after all) which have driven billions upon billions of people to religion! People want to escape death - and these claims (or similar claims like these), are at present humanities only presented HOPE to do so!

My only point on this blog is to point out that I recognize that it is unfair to ask a rationale person to believe in God (such as the above three testimonies mandate to achieve an afterlife), as a belief in God - without evidence of God's existence - is irrational.

That is why I suggest that it might be OK to just HOPE that God exists (as HOPE is the weakest form of belief) - thus satisfying - to a bare minimum - the religious mandates.

Which God to believe in? - very hard question. Basically - if you place any weight in religious historical claims which have achieved great impact factor, its between The Christian God Jehovah (along with God's Son Jesus Christ - and the Holy Spirit of God - they are professed work as a team called the TRINITY) and the Muslim God Allah.

Both Christians and Muslims accept the historical records contained in the BIBLE as the holy inspired word of GOD.

This is shit and you know it. If you don't know it then you have at least been given a heads up!

ILOVEJESUS 04-01-2013 02:56 AM

Quote:

nkb wrote (Post 672922)
Could we have just nipped this whole argument in the bud by pointing out that point #2, as presented by Andrew, is absolute nonsense?

Saying the premise of God has explanatory powers is the same as saying that my farts may be keeping the universe from self-destructing has explanatory powers.

So, congratulations, out of 6 points, you managed to get half of one right. Your mommy must be very proud.

Tell me more about these farts of yours......?

Kinich Ahau 04-01-2013 04:58 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672926)
God either exists or not, irrespective of how the world conducts its affairs relating to the issue.

Ooh, looks like we're heading towards the 50/50 argument. Yippee!

Davin 04-01-2013 07:50 AM

What happens if the god that exists is a god that doesn't want people to hope that a god exists and will send people to be BBQ'd for all eternity for being gullible to shitty arguments?

Andrew66 04-01-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672937)
What happens if the god that exists is a god that doesn't want people to hope that a god exists and will send people to be BBQ'd for all eternity for being gullible to shitty arguments?

Hi Davin

Nice to hear from you.

Interesting you ask that. I had dinner with my sister yesterday (a devout Christian, totally believes a God exists and that the Bible is the revieled word of God) and I told her that maybe God, to be fair to the rationaly minded people (who just can't accept that a God exists do to lack of evidence), would forgive such people if at least they could make the statement at judgement that they "hoped" God would exist.

I knew in advance what her reaction would be. She gave me that strained - questioning / not quite buying it look and stated that while she was pleased that this may open a door way for Atheists, I must be careful not to compromise the teachings of scripture. I presume she meant that she was at least suspcious that "belief" (the term used in scripture) was a bit more than "hope".

My reply was that one way to check was to really examine the earliest records of the statements made by the Apostles which are in Greek and Hebrew - to really examine the translated term "belief" to see if HOPE was included as a possible interpretation. I also mentioned that at Church's I've attended - including at a funeral I attended recently, the Christian minister stated that we will see our loved one in the afterlife, as this is the HOPE of Christians. Indeed - in churches you often see the word HOPE interchangeable with FAITH and BELIEF.

But in addressing your question, what to do if you meet up with a God at judgement and you say "I hoped you existed" and he/she is not satisfied with that and hence sends you to hell.

Well - I wouldn't worry - you can't make yourself believe in something without evidence (so it wouldn't be your fault that you didn't believe) - so in my view such God not accepting of your Hope statement would not be worth hanging out with. But for me, I believe that if God does exist he would be fair, so the HOPE statement, if said honestly, should suffice.

Also, I suspect that most professed Christians and Muslims alike, while they say they believe, only really HOPE because no one can know for sure God exists. Having said that, Christians claim that the HOLY SPIRIT can provide them with absolute "knowledge" to God existence - which of course further confuses the issue.

Davin 04-01-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672938)
Hi Davin

[Useless and boring rant...]

But in addressing your question, what to do if you meet up with a God at judgement and you say "I hoped you existed" and he/she is not satisfied with that and hence sends you to hell.

That is not the question I asked. I asked what if the god that exists is a god that will send you to hell for hoping or believing in a god or gods.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
[More useless things that seem to be based on a reading comprehension failure.]


Andrew66 04-01-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672940)
That is not the question I asked. I asked what if the god that exists is a god that will send you to hell for hoping or believing in a god or gods.


There is imaginably a God who would disaprove of a person believing in him irrationally for lack of compelling evidence.

I doubt that such God would however be offended if you merely hoped for him to exist, as merely hoping for the truth in something without compelling evidence is not irrational.

If you met a god that would send you to hell for merely hoping in him, that aint no god (more likely Satan or a demon pretending to be God). You are probably in Hell already! Ha Ha :thumbsup:

Davin 04-01-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672942)
There is imaginably a God who would disaprove of a person believing in him irrationally for lack of compelling evidence.

I doubt that such God would however be offended if you merely hoped for him to exist, as merely hoping for the truth in something without compelling evidence is not irrational.

If you met a god that would send you to hell for merely hoping in him, that aint no god (more likely Satan or a demon pretending to be God). You are probably in Hell already! Ha Ha :thumbsup:

Based on what? You not thinking it likely just because, isn't very compelling. I'd also like to know where your knowledge comes from about the proposed god, how can you say that the god won't do such a thing?

Smellyoldgit 04-01-2013 10:34 PM

Andrew has mastered the art of the 'rectal pick' - most of his nonsense is plucked straight from his arse.

Andrew66 04-02-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672943)
Based on what? You not thinking it likely just because, isn't very compelling. I'd also like to know where your knowledge comes from about the proposed god, how can you say that the god won't do such a thing?

Hi Davin

Firstly I'm in agreement with you that there is no compelling evidence that a God (i.e. personal creator of our universe who offers us a means to afterlife salvation) of any sort exists, and it thereby takes a leap of faith to believe (or even just hope) that any sort of God exists.

For the sake of argument (assuming God's existence), the basis of determining the qualities of God comes from another leap of faith that such God revealed himself to humanity. So we (as a best guess) turn our attention to the reveared historical documents where claims about God, based on alleged revelations from God (written as non-fiction) have been recorded throughout history.

Now of course there are many claims, each describing differing Gods so which one should one place there hope in.? To me, an important aspect is impact factor. It makes sense at least to me that IF a God bothered to reveal himself , then the stories or teachings contained in such revelations would have such powerful memetic concepts that such concepts would survive and proliferate.

Based on this, it is likely that the teachings of the Christianity or Islam would be the most likely. I doubt the Moonies (small minority religious sects) have it right.

Both Islam and Christianity state that a condition of having favor with God - such as to inherit a desirable afterlife - is a Belief in such God. I am not aware of any teachings (accept the holy scriptures of Davin with the Raving Atheist Forum), which ever suggest a God would favor individuals who were Atheists.

So in Summary

1) A belief in God's existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical documents with high impact factor yields -> desirable afterlife.
2) A disbelief in God existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuemtns with high impact factor -> no desirable afterlife.
3) A mere hope that God exists - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuements with high impact factor -> maybe desirable afterlife.

That's why I'd like to look into the original Hebrew and Greek words of the Torah and new Testiment documents (reveared documents with high impact factor) which have been translated in English to match the term "believe" to see if Hope may be within the scope of those words.

ILOVEJESUS 04-02-2013 11:42 AM

Are you for real?? I mean you sound like you are here for a wind up son.

Smellyoldgit 04-02-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 672951)
Are you for real?? I mean you sound like you are here for a wind up son.

Andrew is in need of a reality fix ..
"afterlife" = death
... then he should check out "bonfire fuel" or "worm food" - once he understands, then he can fuck off.

Davin 04-02-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672950)
Hi Davin

Firstly I'm in agreement with you that there is no compelling evidence that a God (i.e. personal creator of our universe who offers us a means to afterlife salvation) of any sort exists, and it thereby takes a leap of faith to believe (or even just hope) that any sort of God exists.

For the sake of argument (assuming God's existence), the basis of determining the qualities of God comes from another leap of faith that such God revealed himself to humanity.

You are now leaning on bullshit to the power of two.


Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
So we (as a best guess) turn our attention to the reveared historical documents where claims about God, based on alleged revelations from God (written as non-fiction) have been recorded throughout history.

And now you're into bulshit to the power of three.

The farther away you get from evidence, the more bullshit you create. Right now, the foundation, ground floor and second floor of your argument is non-existent. Don't build more floors on nothing and expect to be taken seriously.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
[Argument from authority and popularity (fallacies)]

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
Both Islam and Christianity state that a condition of having favor with God - such as to inherit a desirable afterlife - is a Belief in such God. I am not aware of any teachings (accept the holy scriptures of Davin with the Raving Atheist Forum), which ever suggest a God would favor individuals who were Atheists.

Of course religions wouldn't support an idea people not in the religion are better off than they, that's like Burger King telling all their customers to eat at McDonald's because the food is better.

Also, the word you need to use is "except" not "accept." Unless you accept my holy scripture as true.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
So in Summary

1) A belief in God's existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical documents with high impact factor yields -> desirable afterlife.2) A disbelief in God existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuemtns with high impact factor -> no desirable afterlife.
3) A mere hope that God exists - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuements with high impact factor -> maybe desirable afterlife.

Only for a few relatively young and recent religions.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
That's why I'd like to look into the original Hebrew and Greek words of the Torah and new Testiment documents (reveared documents with high impact factor) which have been translated in English to match the term "believe" to see if Hope may be within the scope of those words.

Why these religions in particular? There are religions that are both older and lasted longer and there are religions that are newer and growing faster.

In the end, you can't rule out that there might be a god that will punish you for hoping and/or believing in a god or gods that made some people write a bunch of bullshit as a test to ensure that no gullible people make it to the afterlife.

Erik 04-03-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672950)
So in Summary

1) A belief in God's existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical documents with high impact factor yields -> desirable afterlife.
2) A disbelief in God existence - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuemtns with high impact factor -> no desirable afterlife.
3) A mere hope that God exists - based on the writings of reveared religious historical docuements with high impact factor -> maybe desirable afterlife.

Good grief -- will Pascal's Wager never go away?

Andrew, if I were trying to convince you to completely subject your intellect to my set of unproven beliefs, and I told you that if you believed I would give you a jelly donut but if you didn't believe I would slap your wrist, what is the likelihood you would subject your intellect to my set of uproven beliefs? Pretty much zip.

That's why, to get the result I want, I need to ratchet up the stakes, so let's try this: if you believe, your reward is a used 1986 Ford Explorer and if you don't, your punishment is that you have to play for the 2013 Houston Astros. Still not enough? OK, how's this: if you believe, you get eternal bliss and if you don't, you get eternal torture. Now we're talkin'! That's why this whole discussion isn't really honest: the purported rewards and punishments are much more likely to have been the result of rigging the system rather than real investigation or rational thought.

What you call revered religious historical documents are simply a smoke screen to hide this plain fact: you can control people by playing on their fears and superstitions and nothing is as effective as religion.

Davin 04-03-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Erik wrote (Post 672954)
Good grief -- will Pascal's Wager never go away?

I doubt it.

Andrew66 04-03-2013 11:33 PM

You are now leaning on bullshit to the power of two.


Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672953)
And now you're into bulshit to the power of three.

The farther away you get from evidence, the more bullshit you create. Right now, the foundation, ground floor and second floor of your argument is non-existent. Don't build more floors on nothing and expect to be taken seriously..

I agree, religious folks take typically 3 orders of unsubstantiated faith to get to their belief system. First belief God exists, then God revieled himself, and third a selection must occur as to which revelations are valid. If you read my posts from the beginiing I concede the irrationality of religion from a rationale standpoint.

But if one is going to HOPE in God nonetheless, the trinity or tiple jump of faith (or bullshit to the power of three as you call it) is all humans have to HOPE for if there is any claimed chance for an afterlife - thats why I think people (and so many, billions) take the position.

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672953)
Why these religions in particular? There are religions that are both older and lasted longer and there are religions that are newer and growing faster..

.

As I said, impact factor based essentially on numbers of followers acrued. A fourth leap of faith, that the optimal religion would have such impact in its teachings such as to captivate and convince large numbers of people.

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672953)
In the end, you can't rule out that there might be a god that will punish you for hoping and/or believing in a god or gods that made some people write a bunch of bullshit as a test to ensure that no gullible people make it to the afterlife..

.

True! If that is correct than you are on the correct path!! Do you HOPE it to be true?

Andrew66 04-03-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Erik wrote (Post 672954)
That's why this whole discussion isn't really honest: the purported rewards and punishments are much more likely to have been the result of rigging the system rather than real investigation or rational thought.

What you call revered religious historical documents are simply a smoke screen to hide this plain fact: you can control people by playing on their fears and superstitions and nothing is as effective as religion.

I agree, if I understand you - that a reason certain religions may have had such a tremendously large impact factor is because the stories and promisses (or threats) they teach have a strong memetic (or reproducing) quality. This point was well discussed in Dawkin's book the God Delusion in explaining why Christianity (which proports a fear of hell, promise of heaven) has flourished, survived and remains taught to so many.

I'm not arguing anymore that belief in religion is rationale! All I'm saying is why not HOPE? If nothing else, it dimishes the sting and fear of death.

psychodiva 04-04-2013 12:24 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672925)

2) I actually do understand what Atheism is. .

so why keep capitalising it then?

psychodiva 04-04-2013 12:27 AM

other than that- the bullshit is the same as all the other crap that theists / idiots / religious twats* have posted on here - so no- no meaningful and respectful dialogue is possible until you take your fingers out of your ears (or arse- whichever is closest to your mouth) and start 'debating' with some facts that you yourself haven't invented

*rhymes with CAT

ILOVEJESUS 04-04-2013 05:59 AM

Still don't see why or how we can all hope for the same God, and what the purpose of hoping for a God has, over hoping for a 12 inch willy to base itself firmly in Andrews bum bum!? So Spartacus blood and sands!

Davin 04-04-2013 07:45 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672956)
I agree, religious folks take typically 3 orders of unsubstantiated faith to get to their belief system. First belief God exists, then God revieled himself, and third a selection must occur as to which revelations are valid. If you read my posts from the beginiing I concede the irrationality of religion from a rationale standpoint.

But if one is going to HOPE in God nonetheless, the trinity or tiple jump of faith (or bullshit to the power of three as you call it) is all humans have to HOPE for if there is any claimed chance for an afterlife - thats why I think people (and so many, billions) take the position.

Doesn't matter, it's bullshit. Bullshit it worthless.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
As I said, impact factor based essentially on numbers of followers acrued. A fourth leap of faith, that the optimal religion would have such impact in its teachings such as to captivate and convince large numbers of people.

Argument ad populum. You're not going to win over anyone here by using fallacies, and it just makes you look crazy to use fallacies, knowing that they're fallacies and still act like your statements are useful.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
True! If that is correct than you are on the correct path!! Do you HOPE it to be true?

I don't hope for anything.

ILOVEJESUS 04-04-2013 09:41 AM

I hope they create a new season of Spartacus blood and sands!

psychodiva 04-04-2013 01:14 PM

you like that? never got the attraction myself

Andrew66 04-05-2013 12:04 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672962)
You're not going to win over anyone here by using fallacies, and it just makes you look crazy to use fallacies, knowing that they're fallacies and still act like your statements are useful.

I think you are arguing with a straw man, I am not trying to "win over anyone" (in so far as to promote that a belief in God is a rationale prosepct).

I am arguing that the existence in God (plus a promissed afterlife) to a rationally minded person cannot be believed, but only hoped for.

If you cannot rule out a God's (plus promissed afterlife's) existence with 100% certainty, than you should have no quarrel with a man for just hoping God's existence to be true, can you?

Davin 04-05-2013 07:50 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672968)
Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672962)
You're not going to win over anyone here by using fallacies, and it just makes you look crazy to use fallacies, knowing that they're fallacies and still act like your statements are useful.

I think you are arguing with a straw man, I am not trying to "win over anyone" (in so far as to promote that a belief in God is a rationale prosepct).

You keep using the word "rationale." I thought the first one or two times it was just a typo, but now it seems that you're really just using the wrong word. The word you should be using in this context is "rational" not "rationale." If you're not here to persuade anyone, then why the fuck are you here presenting this shit?

You came here and presented your beliefs unsolicited, and now are acting like you're not here to persuade anyone. Either you're ignorant or dishonest. Ignorant in that you think that going around preaching your ideas to people who never asked you to shows that you do want to change people's minds or you want to change people's minds and you just lied to me.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
I am arguing that the existence in God (plus a promissed afterlife) to a rationally minded person cannot be believed, but only hoped for.

If you cannot rule out a God's (plus promissed afterlife's) existence with 100% certainty, than you should have no quarrel with a man for just hoping God's existence to be true, can you?

If you cannot rule out a god's (plus promised punishment of people for hoping/believing in a god or gods), existence with 100% certainty, then you should not be telling people to take that risk.

I don't give a fuck what a person believes in, if they keep it to themselves it doesn't bother me at all. If I asked about what they believe then I also wouldn't care. If the person merely hoped or even believed in a god or gods, I have no quarrel with him/her, that's not what's happening here though, is it? No. What is happening is that you're trying to convince other people that merely hoping in a god or gods so that one doesn't go to hell is a rational position. It's not. And you're not going to convince any one that it is a rational position if you keep using fallacies.

Erik 04-05-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672957)
I'm not arguing anymore that belief in religion is rationale! All I'm saying is why not HOPE? If nothing else, it dimishes the sting and fear of death.

Hope for what, exactly? I'm not sure I follow you very well. According to the beliefs of Christians for a long time, there are many more ways of ending up in hell than in heaven. The times I have been proselytized, that was one of the main points being pushed: the great majority of people are hell bound, the path to salvation is narrow. Shouldn't I rather hope that this is all complete bullshit, in addition to being almost completely certain that is it complete bullshit?

Don't get me wrong -- I understand the potential power of hope. But I would rather spend it on the hope that humanity won't destroy itself by destroying its environment.

Andrew66 04-05-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Erik wrote (Post 672970)
Hope for what, exactly? I'm not sure I follow you very well. According to the beliefs of Christians for a long time, there are many more ways of ending up in hell than in heaven. The times I have been proselytized, that was one of the main points being pushed: the great majority of people are hell bound, the path to salvation is narrow. Shouldn't I rather hope that this is all complete bullshit, in addition to being almost completely certain that is it complete bullshit?.

Hope for what exactly?

People generally hate the thought of dying, as on naturalism (which goes with hoping religion is "bullshit") death is the end of a person's existence - which for many is a scary, unwanted proposition.

So many, even completely rational people Hope that there is an afterlife.

Once this Hope is established, the Hoper (being a perfectionist) would typically ask, is there any way I can best secure my chances in obtaining this hoped for desirable afterliife?. In other words, how can I best refine my hope in the hopes of best outcome?.

The Hoper begins to study all the written topics on the subject. He finds most discussion on how to obtain a desirable afterlife is found in religious teachings, which profess a belief in God and a belief in an afterlief.

The Hoper then decides to pick a religion to refine his HOPE. The criteria for his selection will be personal, such as a) which religion feels right b) after praying which religion feels right c) which religion has biggest impact factor d) which religion has the best historical grounds to represent the existance of their named God - eg. historical records of miracles etc.

Many pick Christian, some Islam, some Judasism, some Scientology, some Hinduism - each having their own beliefs on afterlife.

Now if you bear with me this is where the story gets interesting.

The Hoper, having picked (by way of example, lets say Christianity) tells his minister that he hopes God exists but cannot really belief or have faith in it. The Minister will tell the individual that hope isn't good enough, you must go that extra yard and belief if yiou are to benefit from the hope of the Christian religion (i.e. go to Heaven). The Hoper asks valdidly, how can I belief in something without evidence, that would be irrational? The minister replies, pray to God (the one you at least Hope exists) and ask for his Spirit to come inside you, the HOLY SPIRIT of God has the power to infuse you with not just Faith but even Knoweldge that a loving God exists! Ask and it will be given to you, knock and you shall recieve.

Next step - hoper now Believes!!!!

Was this a brain washing t actic or really the holy Spirit, that is the question!!

So Hope is powerful. It drives people to religion as I've explained above. I'm not trying to pursuade anyone to hope, but if you do hope many will take the nexts step to refine their hope so be ware, you might find God!.

dogpet 04-05-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672968)
If you cannot rule out a God's (plus promissed afterlife's) existence with 100% certainty, than you should have no quarrel with a man for just hoping God's existence to be true, can you?

We can have plenty quarrel with your malicious warblings, when every hoper like yourself, (though I suspect you're a bit more than that), in effect brands atheists as no-hopers.
However much backsliding you do, while only making a token effort to appease the focus of your paranoia, it still goes towards justifying everything from paralysing someone in state custody to annoying people out for a bit of Sunday shopping.
You can hope upon hope your personal god thinks exactly like you, & it does ;), & it dies with you too.

Erik 04-05-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672971)
People generally hate the thought of dying, as on naturalism (which goes with hoping religion is "bullshit") death is the end of a person's existence - which for many is a scary, unwanted proposition.
...
So Hope is powerful. It drives people to religion as I've explained above. I'm not trying to pursuade anyone to hope, but if you do hope many will take the nexts step to refine their hope so be ware, you might find God!.

I don't doubt for a second that self-deluded people can have beliefs to help them with fear of death, assuming the Great Frying Pan of Reality never hits them in the face. Much of religion I find to be fairly benign. But the problem with your position is that for a lot of people, there is a whole raft of extra baggage that comes with religious belief. It's all too easy to go from faith in a Universal God to belief that that God has rules for behavior. Plus that nice man who knows how to read the nice Book properly gets to live in the nice mansion, tax free. Or what lack of fear of death did for those 19 guys on 9/11.

In other words, there are costs to what you are saying, whether you realize it or not.

I hope for things that are tangible; the rest is bullshit, and sometimes it's dangerous bullshit.

Andrew66 04-05-2013 09:37 PM

Quote:

dogpet wrote (Post 672972)
We can have plenty quarrel with your malicious warblings, when every hoper like yourself, (though I suspect you're a bit more than that), in effect brands atheists as no-hopers..

I said earlier that even an Atheist can still hope that a god exists.

Eg. An atheist could state "I don't believe that a god exists as there is no compelling evidence to justify the claim, but I HOPE I'm wrong".

So I have not branded atheists as "no-hopers".

FYI - I've asked some important religious leaders in the Christian faith whether HOPE is enough to achieve salvation in an eternally desirable afterlife - as this could open an otherwise closed doorway for Agnostics and even Atheists - but so far there doesn't seem to be Biblical support for this. Sorry...:eh: But I don't quite buy that, I think a fair God would be OK with HOPE :sick:.

Smellyoldgit 04-06-2013 01:45 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672975)
I've asked some important religious leaders in the Christian faith whether HOPE is enough to achieve salvation in an eternally desirable afterlife.

No religious leader is important - they're all cunts, and the thought of sharing even one day with tedious twats (such as yourself) fills me with horror. An eternity with the crass stupidity of human dregs doesn't bear thinking about. :mad:

ILOVEJESUS 04-06-2013 08:55 AM

You have not addressed, quelle surprise, what the point of this hope would be. I could be atheist and hope a God exists. So what? I could hope god is an infinite amount of beautiful 25 year old Eastern European gymnasts who will pleasure me for an eternity.....what was the question again?

psychodiva 04-07-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672968)

I think you are arguing with a straw man, I am not trying to "win over anyone" (in so far as to promote that a belief in God is a rationale prosepct).

I might be more inclined to continue past the initial few words of one of your posts if you would merely learn the difference between 'rational' and rationale'. Please- go look them up. :|

psychodiva 04-07-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 672969)
You keep using the word "rationale." I thought the first one or two times it was just a typo, but now it seems that you're really just using the wrong word. The word you should be using in this context is "rational" not "rationale." If you're not here to persuade anyone, then why the fuck are you here presenting this shit?

ah- thank you- I should have read the next post down before I posted about this irritating twerp's habit of misusing the word :D

psychodiva 04-07-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672971)
Hope for what exactly?

People generally hate the thought of dying, as on naturalism (which goes with hoping religion is "bullshit") death is the end of a person's existence - which for many is a scary, unwanted proposition.

So many, even completely rational people Hope that there is an afterlife.

Once this Hope is established, the Hoper (being a perfectionist) .....plus more twaddle.

Where are you from? Is English your first language? if it is not then I will be inclined to ignore the very basic errors in your writing.

psychodiva 04-07-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672971)
Hope for what exactly?



absolute fucking twat filled tosh.

tell all that to the starving kids, the abused kids, the woman who just lost her fourth child - etc etc- I'm sure what they HOPE for is not a fucking useless god

psychodiva 04-07-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672975)
I said earlier that even an Atheist can still hope that a god exists.

Eg. An atheist could state "I don't believe that a god exists as there is no compelling evidence to justify the claim, but I HOPE I'm wrong".

So I have not branded atheists as "no-hopers".

FYI - I've asked some important religious leaders in the Christian faith whether HOPE is enough to achieve salvation in an eternally desirable afterlife - as this could open an otherwise closed doorway for Agnostics and even Atheists - but so far there doesn't seem to be Biblical support for this. Sorry...:eh: But I don't quite buy that, I think a fair God would be OK with HOPE :sick:.

Why would an atheist HOPE they are wrong? what would be the point of it? Not everybody's life is focussed on the stupid and invisible- some of us just get on with it and do some real good.

Would I worry if you 'branded' us as 'no hopers'? much less than I would worry if the catholics are ever going to apologise for being kiddie-raping wankers? probably not.

Well whoop-de-doo- some 'important religious leaders' eh?? I think at this time we are supposed to go 'wow? well how about fuck off you narcissistic twat* instead? it is pretty obvious you have a narcissistic personality that craves attention so fuck off and talk to your 'hopeless' god , maybe the invisible being will give you what you want.


*rhymes with cat

dogpet 04-07-2013 02:54 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672975)
I said earlier that even an Atheist can still hope that a god exists.

Eg. An atheist could state "I don't believe that a god exists as there is no compelling evidence to justify the claim, but I HOPE I'm wrong".

Well hardly :hahano:. We would first of all need to have some sort of belief there is a further life, then that some awesome being has an interest & involvement in that wish, & that that particular being happened to be one of the more than several described gods. Only then, after wish upon wish upon wish, could we begin to hope such a creature passed our own personal best god test.
All that waste of time & energy couldn't be further from a rational persons mind, & I don't have to hope I'm right.

Davin 04-08-2013 08:27 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672975)
Eg. An atheist could state "I don't believe that a god exists as there is no compelling evidence to justify the claim, but I HOPE I'm wrong".

You also haven't shown that the god won't eternally punish people for hoping that a god exists.

Also, which Christian god? "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." That's quite a strong and clear commandment. Now which other god should one not believe in? The god that told people not to mix fabrics? Because that's the god that said to not have other gods before him, and if you believe in a god that doesn't have any problems with mixed fabrics, then isn't that a different god? Then by hoping/believing in that different god, you'd be putting that other god before the one that told you not to. Uh oh, now you're fucked.

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote
FYI - I've asked some important religious leaders in the Christian faith[...]

I'ma let you finish, but there are no important religious leaders. OK, I lied, I won't let you finish (or at least I won't address the rest because it's worthless).

dogpet 02-16-2018 04:04 PM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 672926)
All I can say is that just because some abuse the desire many individuals have for the HOPE in God (eg. promissed afterlife etc.), this has no barring on whether there is any truth to an assertion that God exists. God either exists or not, irrespective of how the world conducts its affairs relating to the issue.

Having said that, I do see your point that if God doesn't exist, then peddling the concept may dupe indivdiduals to get hooked into religion, and once indoctrinated they may start to donate money (and that would be a shame). However I suspect you may agree that the write to free speach and write to practice religion in our country seems to trump the right to shield people from religion (unless you lived in the old USSR under Stalin, or Naxi Germany under Hitler).

If someone sets up shop as a jesusmonger, they should have some proof that a jesus is available to buy. It's like some bullshit timeshare scam that actually steals time, with money as a bonus.

hertz vanrental 02-20-2018 09:03 AM

Quote:

dogpet wrote (Post 690897)
It's like some bullshit timeshare scam that actually steals time, with money as a bonus.

Fuck. I wish I'd have said that.

Andrew66 02-26-2018 07:15 PM

Quote:

hertz vanrental wrote (Post 690943)
Fuck. I wish I'd have said that.

Really? wow, such passion about a stupid little post. You really are a fan of this stuff eh?

hertz vanrental 02-28-2018 04:06 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 691019)
Really? wow, such passion about a stupid little post. You really are a fan of this stuff eh?

You're just a wankier version of that glam-rock-loving jerrypong aren't you, you weirdo, illiterate, low-life, christard.

Andrew66 03-01-2018 06:40 PM

Quote:

hertz vanrental wrote (Post 691042)
You're just a wankier version of that glam-rock-loving jerrypong aren't you, you weirdo, illiterate, low-life, christard.

Nerd

hertz vanrental 03-02-2018 01:10 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 691085)
Nerd

Ooooo, android IQ 66, that was hurtful:D, weirdo, illiterate christard.

Andrew66 03-03-2018 10:49 AM

Quote:

hertz vanrental wrote (Post 691087)
Ooooo, android IQ 66, that was hurtful:D, weirdo, illiterate christard.

U dumb, and jerk too.

hertz vanrental 03-03-2018 11:40 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 691110)
U dumb, and jerk too.

Weirdo, illiterate, android IQ 66

Is this English? you illiterate weirdo christard. Take a deep breath, hold it for about 5 hours, and then retype the above. I'll then try and figure out what it is that you are trying to say.

Andrew66 03-05-2018 02:24 PM

Quote:

hertz vanrental wrote (Post 691112)
Weirdo, illiterate, android IQ 66

Is this English? you illiterate weirdo christard. Take a deep breath, hold it for about 5 hours, and then retype the above. I'll then try and figure out what it is that you are trying to say.

Your dumb and a Jerk as well.

Better??

Davin 03-12-2018 08:57 AM

I wonder if Looser66 will ever meet the very low intelligence required to know the difference between "your" and "you're." The dumbshit's attempts at condescension might be slightly more effective if Looser66 could put together a sentence or two without any errors.

hertz vanrental 03-12-2018 09:13 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691459)
I wonder if 1. Looser66 will ever meet the very low intelligence required to know the difference between "your" and "you're." .

2. if Looser66 could put together a sentence or two without any errors.

In the case of both 1 and 2 (above) - no, HE can't, but clearly there are others that can.

Andrew66 03-12-2018 07:53 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691459)
I wonder if Looser66 will ever meet the very low intelligence required to know the difference between "your" and "you're." The dumbshit's attempts at condescension might be slightly more effective if Looser66 could put together a sentence or two without any errors.

Ha Ha Ha, got you!! 199th time I got you to say "your" and "you're" - u a cumpulsive freak.
:lol::lol::lol:

Ooops, sori this is Davin - I thought Hertz, you both sound same.

Hey Trump is sure doing awesome eh?

Andrew66 03-12-2018 07:55 PM

Quote:

hertz vanrental wrote (Post 691460)
In the case of both 1 and 2 (above) - no, HE can't, but clearly there are others that can.

Ahhh u clever one, avoided saying your this time. God on ya.

:lol:

Davin 03-13-2018 06:38 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote (Post 691466)
[It said some more stupid shit]

http://www.andpop.com/wp-content/upl...5/02/bored.gif

Andrew66 03-13-2018 11:01 PM

Hey Davin when are you and Hertz going to start dating?

Davin 03-14-2018 06:35 AM

Hey Looser33, when are you going to be less boring?

Andrew66 03-19-2018 01:05 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691510)
Hey Looser33, when are you going to be less boring?

You've increased my IQ from 29 thanks!

Where are you and Hertz going to go on your first date? I heard Hertz lovesssss black meat!

Davin 03-19-2018 01:56 PM

Oh hi, Looser27. Let me know when you're less boring.

Andrew66 03-22-2018 06:50 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691661)
Oh hi, Looser27. Let me know when you're less boring.

How was your date with Hertz last night?

Did you fuck him?

If so, please tell me you used a condom.

We don't want little Hertz'ys or Davins pattering around!

Davin 03-23-2018 06:32 AM

Looser23 is still boring.

Andrew66 03-24-2018 12:01 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691799)
Looser23 is still boring.

Who'd have guessed, Davin is actually a gentleman, he doesn't kiss and tell!

I hope you and Hertz will be very happy.

Gay marriage is allowed in some states.

OH ya, burn in hell.

Davin 03-26-2018 07:10 AM

Still boring, Looser6.

Andrew66 04-08-2018 07:48 AM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 691869)
Still boring, Looser6.

Hey Davin

Would you like it if there was an afterlife, where you could continue pain free and happy living after death. Possibly in a new and perfect body?

Or would you rather just cease to exist?

Kinich Ahau 04-08-2018 10:05 AM

AndyIQ-1, Do you do Anal?

hertz vanrental 04-08-2018 10:14 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692219)
AndyIQ-1, Do you do Anal?

The cunt does with papist mary.

Kinich Ahau 04-08-2018 10:25 AM

Maybe you shouldn't type "the cunt word", you know it turns MaryJJ on.

hertz vanrental 04-08-2018 10:55 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692222)
Maybe you shouldn't type "the cunt word", you know it turns MaryJJ on.

You're right. It'll just make the papist twat more frustrated than she already is.

Davin 04-09-2018 12:22 PM

Looser-6 is still boring.

Andrew66 04-11-2018 02:48 PM

Quote:

Davin wrote (Post 692264)
Looser-6 is still boring.

U never answered, do you prefer that upon death you

1) Cease to exist or

2) Enter into a pleasant, pain free, happy after life?

Kinich Ahau 04-11-2018 04:05 PM

What's "prefer" got to do with anything?

I'd prefer a metallic gold Ferrari then the car I'm driving now.

Davin 04-12-2018 07:11 AM

I'd prefer Dumbshit0.66 to be less boring, let's see how that works out first.

hertz vanrental 04-12-2018 07:27 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692307)
What's "prefer" got to do with anything?

I'd prefer a metallic gold Ferrari then the car I'm driving now.

Yes, but I guess that you are going to have to 'make do' with that metallic silver Ferrari that you drive.:D

Andrew66 04-12-2018 07:53 PM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692307)
What's "prefer" got to do with anything?

I'd prefer a metallic gold Ferrari then the car I'm driving now.

Answer the question and then lets see with the path takes us.

Its funny, you guys are sooo afraid to answer.

hertz vanrental 04-12-2018 11:44 PM

Bored?

Then, do as the filthy, stinking, vermin, weirdo, christard android IQ6 suggests and get cancer. Created by de lard ass, who loves us all.:heart:

Kinich Ahau 04-13-2018 01:24 AM

I prefer not delve into the realm of wishful thinking and prefer to deal with reality.

Davin 04-13-2018 06:21 AM

I did answer: I prefer Looser0.66 to not be so boring.

Andrew66 04-22-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692219)
AndyIQ-1, Do you do Anal?

Thanks KA, my IQ is no. "1" - better than the rest.

Kinich Ahau 04-22-2018 06:12 PM

Minus one at that time, lower now.

Andrew66 04-23-2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692485)
Minus one at that time, lower now.

Do you eat shit?

Kinich Ahau 04-24-2018 11:42 AM

No thanks, I'll refuse your dinner party invitation. Maybe next time if the menu improves.

hertz vanrental 04-24-2018 11:55 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 692520)
No thanks, I'll refuse your dinner party invitation. Maybe next time if the menu improves.

:heart:


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin - Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2013, Raving Atheists [dot] com. All rights reserved.