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-   -   Abortion (http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17094)

Saturday 07-02-2013 02:10 PM

Abortion
 
Hey guys,

Is any atheist or secularist here a pro-lifer? And why?

Just curious.

Michael 07-03-2013 02:48 PM

My opinion used to be that whilst I was absolutely for the right to make the choice for yourself, I preferred to idea of adoption over abortion.

Now that's changed for numerous reasons, one of the more out there ones being human overpopulation. We're not good at managing resources, see, and anything that limits population growth needs to at least be re-assessed.*



*now watch someone try to say this means I support genocide or something.

Saturday 07-03-2013 08:05 PM

Very true. We need to limit population growth. I don't know if that should be done via abortions but yeah, we need people to stop making copies asap.

I think I am where you were. I don't think abortion is necessarily immoral. I was fairly undecided for awhile. I'm just wondering if anyone ever had a valid and sound secular argument against abortion legally or morally because I haven't encountered one yet.

Smellyoldgit 07-04-2013 01:02 AM

.... but aborted foetuses are so delicious - especially with extra garlic!

Clifton 07-20-2013 05:58 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm a pro-lifer because I like living and think the fetus might enjoy it as well. I also think women should have the choice to strangle that little fucker with its own umbilical cord, just don't ask me to help. I have better things to do.

Saturday 07-21-2013 06:22 AM

Quote:

Clifton wrote (Post 673885)
Hello everyone,

I'm a pro-lifer because I like living and think the fetus might enjoy it as well. I also think women should have the choice to strangle that little fucker with its own umbilical cord, just don't ask me to help. I have better things to do.

Well, it's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet.

Usually "pro-life" is mutually exclusive with pro choice. So you're either pro life or pro choice. If what you said wasn't sarcasm, then you're not a pro-lifer, you're a pro choicer.

Clifton 07-21-2013 07:18 AM

Quote:

Saturday wrote (Post 673889)
Well, it's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet.

Usually "pro-life" is mutually exclusive with pro choice. So you're either pro life or pro choice. If what you said wasn't sarcasm, then you're not a pro-lifer, you're a pro choicer.

I don't find it that simple. It's not black or white for me. Every situation can be different. I would base what I feel right or wrong on each account. I could choose to ignore the majority of abortions in feeling that they are none of my business. I could also choose to intervene and totally reject what i feel to be a horrible action.

Why can't I be both?

davros of skaro 03-24-2014 02:37 AM

Just listen to Bindi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYbNbJG3-1k

Saturday 04-04-2014 10:53 PM

welp, I wasn't specifically thinking about overpopulation. But she reiterates a great point. There are too many damn people on this planet.

ILOVEJESUS 04-05-2014 02:40 AM

And more to come!!

jimmyjet 04-06-2014 07:03 PM

this is not a believer/non-believer issue, although many people try to make it out to be one.

biology 101 - each of our lives starts with the joining of a sperm and an egg.

people make the ridiculous mistake of thinking that it is not a human being because it has not formed a head, a foot, etc.

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.

the only exact point is at conception.

i have a highly atheistic friend who gets very irate when he hears that only theists are pro-life. he remarks very sarcastically "do they think that they are the only ones who know what is fair ?"

many people do think that atheists are all pro-choice, and theists tend to be all pro-life. that just aint true, by a long shot.

in polls taken, christians dont have much greater a percentage of being pro-life than non-christians or non-believers.

i did not listen to the bindi url, cuz i got the drift of what was said from saturday's post.

what ridiculous logic !! the ends do not justify the means. by using that exact same logic, i could say lets just go kill 75% of the population. that too, would solve the population problem.

just cuz we can solve a problem by a particular means, does not justify the means being used.

the unborn child has done nothing wrong. it is their parents who are 100% responsible for their actions.

why not just cut off the guy's penis, and sew up the vagina for people who can not be responsible for their sexual actions ?

this society is so dysfunctional. and we have almost totally forgotten about taking responsibility for our actions. it is not the other guy's fault. we need only look in the mirror.

Kinich Ahau 04-07-2014 12:26 AM

Surprise, surprise!

Oh and fuck off!

Michael 04-07-2014 04:44 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
this is not a believer/non-believer issue, although many people try to make it out to be one.

In general I agree with this.

Quote:

biology 101 - each of our lives starts with the joining of a sperm and an egg.
Not so much with this. But I can certainly see why some might argue this.
However, society disagrees. We don't celebrate our 'conception day' and say "I am 30 today because today was the day my sperm joined with my egg". No. Society says our life begins the day we're born, and if you count your age by that measure, so do you.


Quote:

people make the ridiculous mistake of thinking that it is not a human being because it has not formed a head, a foot, etc.

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.
This is fallacious, as your argument first assumes that we even need to pinpoint an *exact* moment. Who ever said we did?
Can you pinpoint the exact generation that was the first homo sapiens sapiens and does that mean diddly squat for evolutionary purposes?


Quote:

the only exact point is at conception.

i have a highly atheistic friend who gets very irate when he hears that only theists are pro-life. he remarks very sarcastically "do they think that they are the only ones who know what is fair ?"

many people do think that atheists are all pro-choice, and theists tend to be all pro-life. that just aint true, by a long shot.
Except We're yet to hear a good secular argument against it, so most that argue most passionately for it tend to be theistic in nature.
Beyond "imagine if you had been aborted", that is. If I had, I wouldn't know the difference, as i wouldn't exist, or have ever really existed.
And if you are going to make that argument, than any wastage of potential life can be looked at similarly, and periods and masturbation suddenly become a lot more deadly. "Imagine if you had been ejaculated into a tissue instead".

Quote:

in polls taken, christians dont have much greater a percentage of being pro-life than non-christians or non-believers.

i did not listen to the bindi url, cuz i got the drift of what was said from saturday's post.

what ridiculous logic !! the ends do not justify the means. by using that exact same logic, i could say lets just go kill 75% of the population. that too, would solve the population problem.
Took longer than I thought, but I totally called someone equating this with genocide.


Quote:

just cuz we can solve a problem by a particular means, does not justify the means being used.
Okay. No general argument here on that, except that the context in which you're saying it is faulty, since you just wrongly equated abortion with genocide.

Quote:

the unborn child has done nothing wrong. it is their parents who are 100% responsible for their actions.
And the unborn child is perfectly welcome to gestate outside of it's mother's body then. Until then it is a trespasser in someone else's body, and if it is a human being, then it is forcibly inside a woman's uterus without permission.
We wouldn't accept a human being forcing themselves on a woman's body like that at any other time so you're saying that a child has more rights to a woman's body than the woman does?

Quote:

why not just cut off the guy's penis, and sew up the vagina for people who can not be responsible for their sexual actions ?
That's a little excessive. And disturbing.

Smellyoldgit 04-07-2014 06:42 AM

Methinks we have a slimeball in our midst - still carrying full catlick credentials.

ILOVEJESUS 04-07-2014 06:51 AM

Quote:

Smellyoldgit wrote (Post 678222)
Methinks we have a slimeball in our midst - still carrying full catlick credentials.

No way....ya think?:rolleyes:

ghoulslime 04-07-2014 07:12 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.

the only exact point is at conception.

Self-contradiction much?

You fucking imbecile!

Davin 04-07-2014 07:12 AM

Maybe JimmyJerry is anensephalic.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:31 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 678220)

Not so much with this. But I can certainly see why some might argue this.
However, society disagrees. We don't celebrate our 'conception day' and say "I am 30 today because today was the day my sperm joined with my egg". No. Society says our life begins the day we're born, and if you count your age by that measure, so do you.

we celebrate our birthday based on the day of our birth.

and it is just that - a celebration.

it states nothing about our life inside the womb.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:36 AM

Quote:
people make the ridiculous mistake of thinking that it is not a human being because it has not formed a head, a foot, etc.

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.
This is fallacious, as your argument first assumes that we even need to pinpoint an *exact* moment. Who ever said we did?



"society" makes all sorts of legal rules, all about this. even abortion is not legal, past a certain point.

and all of this is about whether the fetus has become a human being.

so according to this ridiculous idea that we are not life at conception, then that means that there is some exact microsecond at which we become a human.

if you want to take the position that we do at birth, that is your prerogative.

but that is not what our society says. no, it is after the first trimester, before the brain shows development, or whatever other physical hogwash one cares to mention.

conception is an exact physical event.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:41 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 678220)
I


Except We're yet to hear a good secular argument against it, so most that argue most passionately for it tend to be theistic in nature.

can you read ? i gave you no such theistic argument. i said biology 101.

i told you about my atheistic friend and many other non-believers who are pro-lifers.

i neither believe or disbelieve in the existence of god.

a person's stance on the belief in god HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the belief in abortion.

the 2 topics are completely separate.

one is a way of conceptualizing how the universe started.

the other is about saving the life of a human being.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:44 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 678220)
I
Took longer than I thought, but I totally called someone equating this with genocide.

i used the same logic. and it is TOTALLY VALID, if you understand logic.

what it demonstrates is that one can not justify the means by the result.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:47 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 678220)


And the unborn child is perfectly welcome to gestate outside of it's mother's body then. Until then it is a trespasser in someone else's body, and if it is a human being, then it is forcibly inside a woman's uterus without permission.

are you joking ? the woman decided to spread her legs. the man was allowed to place his penis inside her.

each knew what the possible consequences were.

if one can not take responsibility for an action, then one should not perform the action. simple as that. it applies to all of our actions.

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:51 AM

Quote:

Michael wrote (Post 678220)

That's a little excessive. And disturbing.

a lot less disturbing than killing an innocent unborn baby.

the whole issue of abortion is all about people wanting their sex and eating it, too.

if sex was something that did not create babies, and just done for enjoyment purposes, we would have none of this argument.

most everyone would see abortion for exactly what it is - murdering a human being.

but society rationalizes that the fetus is not a human being until some point in time.

so it is okay to get rid of it before that magical moment when it becomes a human, thereby preventing them from taking on the responsibility that having sex produces.

Davin 04-07-2014 09:59 AM

lol, it's almost like we haven't seen these ridiculous arguments before...

clambake 04-07-2014 12:50 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678234)
the whole issue of abortion is all about people wanting their sex and eating it, too.

Fuck you asshole.

ghoulslime 04-07-2014 05:40 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678232)
i used the same logic. and it is TOTALLY VALID, if you understand logic.

what it demonstrates is that one can not justify the means by the result.

Yuppers! 'Cause JimmyJerry is all about logic! :rolleyes:

What a fucking imbecile!

ghoulslime 04-07-2014 05:42 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678233)
are you joking ? the woman decided to spread her legs. the man was allowed to place his penis inside her.

each knew what the possible consequences were.

if one can not take responsibility for an action, then one should not perform the action. simple as that. it applies to all of our actions.

How about the consequences of a little girl that got raped? How about that poor woman who will die because of childbirth?

Fuck you, you vile Catlicker piece of shit!

ghoulslime 04-07-2014 05:47 PM

It is abundantly clear at this point in time, that JimmyJerry is a Catholic scumbag pretending to be a thinking human being. He can't defend his imbecilic religious beliefs, so he postures as if he is a seeker of truth.

Must control those naughty people! Must punish them if they have sex!

jimmyjet 04-07-2014 09:58 PM

the bottom line is that in order to fix any sort of problem, it needs to be fixed at its source.

for example, our medical community continues to prescribe drugs that in many instances mask the symptoms.

and they are not something that the human body has evolved to need.

which is why just about every drug has a myriad of possible side effects.

if we want to fix that problem, we need to do it at its source - our lifestyle.

what we eat, how much sleep we get, allowing stressful situations in our lives, proper exercise, etc.

in other words, we need to change ourselves. that is not something that most people are willing to do. most lack self-discipline.

so they look for the magic pill that is gonna allow them to continue living their current lifestyle, with all its bad habits.

within our current discussion, sex is the only source of the problem of abortion.

and abortion is only one of the these problems. we have kids in adoption who cant be adopted, diseases, etc.

the only answer is to change our behavior towards sex in general and vaginal intercourse, in specific.

the only biological function of vaginal intercourse is to make babies.

so before we do that, we need to be responsible for possible consequences.

and if and until we take on that responsibility, we will continue to see a whole slew of problems

Kinich Ahau 04-07-2014 11:09 PM

Do you do anal?

Kinich Ahau 04-07-2014 11:13 PM

Quote:

ghoulslime wrote (Post 678242)
It is abundantly clear at this point in time, that JimmyJerry is a Catholic scumbag pretending to be a thinking human being. He can't defend his imbecilic religious beliefs, so he postures as if he is a seeker of truth.

Must control those naughty people! Must punish them if they have sex!

The funny thing is that he never fooled us for a second. It' probably something to do with the myopic, self righteous, sanctimonious drivel he spouts in common with other theists that land here.

ghoulslime 04-08-2014 01:10 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678243)
the bottom line is that in order to fix any sort of problem, it needs to be fixed at its source.

for example, our medical community continues to prescribe drugs that in many instances mask the symptoms.

and they are not something that the human body has evolved to need.

which is why just about every drug has a myriad of possible side effects.

if we want to fix that problem, we need to do it at its source - our lifestyle.

what we eat, how much sleep we get, allowing stressful situations in our lives, proper exercise, etc.

in other words, we need to change ourselves. that is not something that most people are willing to do. most lack self-discipline.

so they look for the magic pill that is gonna allow them to continue living their current lifestyle, with all its bad habits.

within our current discussion, sex is the only source of the problem of abortion.

and abortion is only one of the these problems. we have kids in adoption who cant be adopted, diseases, etc.

the only answer is to change our behavior towards sex in general and vaginal intercourse, in specific.

the only biological function of vaginal intercourse is to make babies.

so before we do that, we need to be responsible for possible consequences.

and if and until we take on that responsibility, we will continue to see a whole slew of problems

Go fuck your mother, you creepy Catholic fuck!

ghoulslime 04-08-2014 01:12 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 678245)
The funny thing is that he never fooled us for a second. It' probably something to do with the myopic, self righteous, sanctimonious drivel he spouts in common with other theists that land here.

The guy is seriously a delusional tool!

ILOVEJESUS 04-08-2014 04:09 AM

Look I do like sex and eating, sometimes I combine the two....a boom boom! By the way no one celebrates abortion. It is something that is there to protect those that do not wish to give birth with an option. That option is defined by scientific observation and study. I repeat it is not a pleasant or celebrated procedure! If I have been impregnated by an abusive partner and manage to escape....abortion may well be an option I am grateful for though!

ILOVEJESUS 04-08-2014 04:10 AM

By the way, bad Ghoulers, for not picking up on the whole sex and eating it point!!!

Davin 04-08-2014 07:20 AM

Oh sweet, from denying abortion all the way to anti-medicine... what an idiot.

Clifton 04-08-2014 07:31 AM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 678252)
Look I do like sex and eating, sometimes I combine the two....a boom boom! By the way no one celebrates abortion. It is something that is there to protect those that do not wish to give birth with an option. That option is defined by scientific observation and study. I repeat it is not a pleasant or celebrated procedure! If I have been impregnated by an abusive partner and manage to escape....abortion may well be an option I am grateful for though!

Wait a minute. I've celebrated an abortion or two.

Sinfidel 04-08-2014 07:41 AM

originally arrived posing as a pseudoatheist, but now returns as a full fledged theologue, evading response to the embarrassing questions put to his previous personna.
Let the games begin!

Smellyoldgit 04-08-2014 07:50 AM

Don't forget JJ's got everybody on ignore - the silly cunt's just prattling away with himself!

ILOVEJESUS 04-08-2014 08:50 AM

Quote:

Clifton wrote (Post 678257)
Wait a minute. I've celebrated an abortion or two.

Why I oughta.......

Smellyoldgit 04-08-2014 11:33 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678243)
within our current discussion, sex is the only source of the problem of abortion.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...63682309_n.jpg

Sinfidel 04-08-2014 03:18 PM

Quote:

Saturday wrote (Post 673727)
Very true. We need to limit population growth. I don't know if that should be done via abortions but yeah, we need people to stop making copies asap.

We do limit population growth - at least, the oligarchs do. They cull the herd by warfare. Of course, it's total insanity, (but then the oligarchs are all sociopaths), in that they pick the finest, fittest youth to slaughter, when the rational approach would be to kill off the old geezers who are no longer productive.
In the end, it matters little. Mother Nature has its own methods of population control, natural disasters and disease, the latter of which seems self-adjusting in response to overpopulation.
Add to that the effects of pollution on climate and crops and fisheries. Personally, I like to pollute as much as I can. All the "environmental" rules are aimed at the bottom of the pyramid, whilst the crooks at the top can pollute all they want. Local rules too stringent for your factory? Just move it to a third world country.
I don't have much time left on this ball of lava, so why should I give a Phuk? Let the oligarchs solve the problem.

Sinfidel 04-08-2014 03:27 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 678253)
By the way, bad Ghoulers, for not picking up on the whole sex and eating it point!!!

As Mayor Rob Ford of Toronto famously announced, his wife gives him plenty to eat....:heart::thumbsup:

ghoulslime 04-08-2014 06:25 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 678253)
By the way, bad Ghoulers, for not picking up on the whole sex and eating it point!!!

I merely presumed that eating it was a normal part of foreplay.

Are we talking about snarfing down a pepperoni pizza while we do anal here? :eh:

Semper Idem 04-09-2014 01:09 AM

Nobody asked me for my opinion, I know. That said, I'm in an uppity mood, so I'll butt in anyway.

War is horrible. No one wants war. Yet only a fool would decide that since war is bad, we need to abolish the Armed Forces. Yanno why? Because we know that sometimes war is necessary.

It's the same with abortion. It's a terrible thing. Yet sometimes, you gotta go right ahead and abort. What's more, I can think of no better person to make that call than the woman carrying the foetus.

Sinfidel 04-09-2014 06:50 AM

Quote:

Smellyoldgit wrote (Post 673729)
.... but aborted foetuses are so delicious - especially with extra garlic!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ayBalutEgg.png

Sinfidel 04-09-2014 07:13 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678232)
i used the same logic. and it is TOTALLY VALID, if you understand logic.

what it demonstrates is that one can not justify the means by the result.

You are so full of shit....

Quote:

Phil 1:15-18 (NIV)
15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached


:lol:

jimmyjet 04-09-2014 10:17 AM

hi semper,

if you give the woman the right to abort her baby, then she can come up with any reason she wants, thereby giving one person the right to kill another person.

if people are honest, they would agree that they would not have agreed to having their mother choose to abort them.

do unto others is a pretty apt saying, in this case.

Davin 04-09-2014 11:48 AM

Is CreepyJimmyJerry still talking to himself?

I would have been fine if my mother aborted me, I wouldn't have the ability to give any fucks about it at the time and now later in life I'd rather have never existed in the first place. If we're being honest, I'm sure that CreepyJimmyJerry's mum wishes she had aborted him.

Speaking of doing unto others, I wonder if CreepyJimmyJerry, after being raped, would enjoy growing the rapists kid inside him for 9 months then go through intense pain to get it removed... something tells me that he would find all sorts of reasons to make sure he didn't have to.

Semper Idem 04-09-2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678274)
hi semper,

if you give the woman the right to abort her baby, then she can come up with any reason she wants, thereby giving one person the right to kill another person.

if people are honest, they would agree that they would not have agreed to having their mother choose to abort them.

do unto others is a pretty apt saying, in this case.

The foetus is in HER womb, not yours or mine. Questions? Didn't think so.

I'll agree that abortion is the death of a potential child, thus making it horrible. Yet remember my analogy about war - war is horrible, yet needed at times. It's the same with abortion - horrible always, sometimes needed.

jimmyjet 04-09-2014 03:31 PM

not sure what you mean by questions ?

it does not matter where the human life is.

we dont have the right to get rid of it, any more than we have the right to get rid of another life, because it does not suit our purpose.

and this is why society rationalizes that it is not yet a human being.

otherwise they are forced to admit that they are murdering a human being.

there is no way to really win an argument for pro-choice. they all center around selfishness.

and as i stated before, if sex and abortion had no connection, there would be no argument about abortion killing a human being.

the pro-choice side can rationalize all it wants.

abortion is not right, it will never be right.

no matter what problem it solves. it may have solved the problem for 2 people, at the expense of taking another person's life who had no say-so in it.

the argument about being in her womb is on the top of the list for women. she should have say-so.

and with the same breath, they will hypocritically state that a man got her pregnant, and is responsible for bringing up the child.

if she wants total right to the child in her body, then she needs to take total responsibility.

of course, i do agree with her that the man is equally responsible for the child.

neither parent has the right to kill the unborn baby.

if they didnt want to take on the responsibility of sex, then dont have sex.

it is totally just that simple.

of course, most males dont have the slightest clue as how to control that part of their life. their penis makes their decisions for them.

ghoulslime 04-09-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678278)
not sure what you mean by questions ?

it does not matter where the human life is.

we dont have the right to get rid of it, any more than we have the right to get rid of another life, because it does not suit our purpose.

and this is why society rationalizes that it is not yet a human being.

otherwise they are forced to admit that they are murdering a human being.

there is no way to really win an argument for pro-choice. they all center around selfishness.

and as i stated before, if sex and abortion had no connection, there would be no argument about abortion killing a human being.

the pro-choice side can rationalize all it wants.

abortion is not right, it will never be right.

no matter what problem it solves. it may have solved the problem for 2 people, at the expense of taking another person's life who had no say-so in it.

the argument about being in her womb is on the top of the list for women. she should have say-so.

and with the same breath, they will hypocritically state that a man got her pregnant, and is responsible for bringing up the child.

if she wants total right to the child in her body, then she needs to take total responsibility.

of course, i do agree with her that the man is equally responsible for the child.

neither parent has the right to kill the unborn baby.

if they didnt want to take on the responsibility of sex, then dont have sex.

it is totally just that simple.

of course, most males dont have the slightest clue as how to control that part of their life. their penis makes their decisions for them.

Is CreepyJimmyJerry still talking to himself?

jimmyjet 04-09-2014 09:24 PM

the bottom line is that we can not objectify the unborn's value, based upon anyone else but the unborn.

it is simply how each and everyone of us spend our first 9 months developing.

we do a lot more developing throughout out childhood.

and still some developing the rest of our entire life.

in one example, the woman aborts a 2-month old unborn, cuz she doesnt want it.

in another example, she has a miscarriage - which in most cases is very traumatic for the woman. we send her condolences, etc. why ? cuz she lost her baby.

the exact same baby. it is not considered a baby if the woman doesnt want it. it is considered a baby if the woman does want it.

the honest answer is easy.

but it makes our lives more difficult. we actually need to take responsibility if we choose to have sex.

RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS.

a simple, but almost non-practiced today.

i realize that the truth hurts. it can cause us to make changes to ourselves that we dont want to make.

killing unborn babies has to be the best example of how totally self-absorbed some people really are.

Semper Idem 04-10-2014 12:46 AM

Quote:

ghoulslime wrote (Post 678279)
Is CreepyJimmyJerry still talking to himself?

He's still talking to me; I intend to continue this conversation later.

As for now, I'm going to bed.

Kisses and that,
Semper Idem.

Kinich Ahau 04-10-2014 01:12 AM

CreepyJimmyJerry is being creepy.

ILOVEJESUS 04-10-2014 05:02 AM

As far as I am aware they are no more alive than a tumour. Should we leave those in us as well when they appear against our wishes? Also is anyone advocating murdering babies here? Didn't think so. What is wrong, exactly, with people having options in their lives? Is it that churches and religions lose power perhaps?

ghoulslime 04-10-2014 08:15 AM

And CreepyJimmyJerry creeps on!

Davin 04-10-2014 09:35 AM

Oh no, CreepyJimmyJerry's mom stopped working!
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...78716978_n.jpg

Semper Idem 04-10-2014 12:17 PM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote (Post 678286)
As far as I am aware they are no more alive than a tumour. Should we leave those in us as well when they appear against our wishes? Also is anyone advocating murdering babies here? Didn't think so. What is wrong, exactly, with people having options in their lives? Is it that churches and religions lose power perhaps?

By Jove, I think you've got it! :cool:

If these pro-lifers were really all about life, they wouldn't cut programs designed to help the already born children. They'd be just as vocal about the gang violence killing more children than abortion. They'd be just as vocal about child sex abuse (would that hit too close to home for them?), poor educational opportunities, poor housing, poor nutrition, and just plain lack of what's needed to sustain life.

When you think about it, being pro-life all across the board is really a very socialist position. If life is a right, then everything needed to sustain life is also a right. That means a right to proper food, clothing, housing, medical care, bathing facilities, education, and employment. It also means abolishing the death penalty. All - repeat, ALL - of these positions are left-wing positions. The fact that so many right-wingers disagree with these positions tells me that the antiabortion thing is really antiwoman at its core.

I could go on, but I have to go to work soon. All I can say now is if someone wants to call themselves pro-life on the abortion thing, they'd better be pro-life all across the board. If not, they're simply antiabortion. Period.

I wonder what @jimmyjet says to that? I'm not being sarcastic; I'd really like to hear his response. Jimmy? The floor is yours.

Sinfidel 04-10-2014 01:41 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678274)
hi semper,

if you give the woman the right to abort her baby, then she can come up with any reason she wants, thereby giving one person the right to kill another person.

if people are honest, they would agree that they would not have agreed to having their mother choose to abort them.

do unto others is a pretty apt saying, in this case.

http://feminspire.com/wp-content/upl...fe-cartoon.gif

jimmyjet 04-10-2014 02:33 PM

hi semper,

i only have a few minutes, so i will try and address the rest of your points later, on an individual basis, if you like.

they are all separate problems.

however, none of them have anything to do with the right to life of the unborn baby.

each and every one of us is an individual organism. we spend the first 9 months or so inside the womb.

the rest of it is spent outside.

this organism starts at conception - the first page of biology 101.

people can rationalize all they want about it - it wont change that very simple fact.

and i have already stated several times, but will do so again - abortion would not be an issue if it was not tied to sex.

we would all see the unborn for what it is - a human being who is still in his first nine months of existence.

ghoulslime 04-10-2014 05:22 PM

CreepyJimmyJerry makes a decision on abortion every time he takes a shit: To keep his turd and watch it develop into the same kind of person as himself, or to flush it away into oblivion!

jimmyjet 04-10-2014 06:11 PM

hi semper,

you had some points about "pro-life".

let me state that pro-life and pro-choice are simply acronyms given SPECIFICALLY to the topic of abortion.

my acronyms would be "yes, i believe in killing unborn babies" and "no, i do not believe in killing unborn babies".

jimmyjet 04-10-2014 06:34 PM

Quote:

Semper Idem wrote (Post 678290)

If these pro-lifers were really all about life, they wouldn't cut programs designed to help the already born children. They'd be just as vocal about the gang violence killing more children than abortion. They'd be just as vocal about child sex abuse (would that hit too close to home for them?), poor educational opportunities, poor housing, poor nutrition, and just plain lack of what's needed to sustain life.

.

there are quite a few topics in this paragraph alone.

and again, they are separate from the issue of abortion.

except for a small percentage of abortions that come from rape, the overwhelming percentage of abortions come 100% from voluntary sex.

so those people chose to have sex without being willing to accept the responsibility.

they had sex, knowing that it had the possibility of creating a kid.

the couple having the sex is 100% responsible for the life that they create.

do not toss that off on the rest of society. it is not the other person's responsibility to make up for the mistakes that i make. it is my responsibility, and mine alone.

all of your arguments are separate topics - for example gang violence.

trying to use that to somehow justify abortion simply holds no water whatsoever.

i do agree with you that we have many social problems in society.

the great majority of them all stem from sex.

one big problem that society has today is that too may of its inhabitants dont know any different, cuz they arent old enough to have experienced how things used to be.

when i was a kid, a divorced person was RARE. and i knew of no kid who did not live with both biological parents.

we all had dinner time, where the whole family ate dinner together at the dining room table.

kids in general, had a fairly stable environment.

contrast that with today - i am and have been acquainted with many kids starting in elementary and working their way through college. it is now the exception when a kid is living with both his parents.

the family structure is so dysfunctional today. but you wouldnt know about it, unless you actually lived in a different atmosphere.

the reason why leave it to beaver, father knows best, and other tv family shows are like they are, is because they represented the values that families strove for back then. today, it looks like it comes from a different universe, in so far as what the typical kid experiences today.

and all of this stems from people having sex, creating babies, and not being responsible for it.

go back to rome. their sexual decadence is what caused that society to eventually fail. at least my research tells me that we are not nearly that bad YET. but we are heading down that road at a fairly fast clip. and we will eventually fail, if we dont change things around.

in order to fix a problem, we first have to recognize it. after recognition, comes internal admission. then comes admission to others. once we can really admit to others that there is a problem, we can start the fixing and healing stages.

i dont believe for a second that even a small percentage of pro-choicers have not reached the internal admission stage. that of knowing abortion is wrong, but unable to admit it to others, because not willing yet to change themselves to fix the problem.

how much longer we will continue along this same road of killing unborn babies, and causing such great dysfunctionality in our kids remains to be seen.

but it is quite difficult for a dysfunctional kid to become a functional adult. so it is a real problem.

i have placed almost all of you on ignore, because you have not been willing to have an adult conversation in an adult way, that would be considered to be correct by society.

but i realize that most of you have all sorts of anger inside. and until you are able to release this anger, you will be stuck at the stage that you are in.

and so while i am not gonna waste my time on reading these sorts of posts, i truly do not dislike you as people.

i suspect that most of you will be in different stages 10 years from now - part of our growth and learning process.

Sinfidel 04-10-2014 08:22 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
this is not a believer/non-believer issue, although many people try to make it out to be one.

biology 101 - each of our lives starts with the joining of a sperm and an egg.

people make the ridiculous mistake of thinking that it is not a human being because it has not formed a head, a foot, etc.

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.

the only exact point is at conception.

i have a highly atheistic friend who gets very irate when he hears that only theists are pro-life. he remarks very sarcastically "do they think that they are the only ones who know what is fair ?"

many people do think that atheists are all pro-choice, and theists tend to be all pro-life. that just aint true, by a long shot.

in polls taken, christians dont have much greater a percentage of being pro-life than non-christians or non-believers.

i did not listen to the bindi url, cuz i got the drift of what was said from saturday's post.

what ridiculous logic !! the ends do not justify the means. by using that exact same logic, i could say lets just go kill 75% of the population. that too, would solve the population problem.

just cuz we can solve a problem by a particular means, does not justify the means being used.

the unborn child has done nothing wrong. it is their parents who are 100% responsible for their actions.

why not just cut off the guy's penis, and sew up the vagina for people who can not be responsible for their sexual actions ?

this society is so dysfunctional. and we have almost totally forgotten about taking responsibility for our actions. it is not the other guy's fault. we need only look in the mirror.

Stupid & Evil Shit Pro-Lifers Say
Quote:

This is a blog to document all the stupid and evil shit pro-lifers say.

It serves not only to document the cruelty and idiocy that passes for intelligence, "love" and "compassion" in pro-life circles, but also to remind us -- as their words make it very clear -- what the pro-life movement is really about: controlling & punishing women.

http://shitliferssay.tumblr.com/

ILOVEJESUS 04-11-2014 03:35 AM

You can't "kill" something that isn't alive yet you fucktard! As Ghoulies stated, I flush turds away without too much of a head fuck! Life is cognitive...unless you think it is spiritual, if you do , fuck off an atheist forum and start babbling on a theist one. One looks at the time babies become "aware" and use that as a basis of deciding when it would be acceptable to remove the fetus. Common sense really.

Kinich Ahau 04-11-2014 03:41 AM

Yes but your turds are probably more self aware than CreepyJimmyJerry.

ILOVEJESUS 04-11-2014 04:21 AM

Well I do give them names.

Kinich Ahau 04-11-2014 05:30 AM

I call most of mine Jerry but I think I've recently found a new name for them.

Smellyoldgit 04-11-2014 05:47 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678295)
i have placed almost all of you on ignore, because you have not been willing to have an adult conversation in an adult way

http://www.ashcroftsurgery.co.uk/wp-...rying-baby.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-22KVo4aXzJ...255B1%255D.bmp

Sinfidel 04-11-2014 01:45 PM

Quote:

Jimmyjet wrote -

one big problem that society has today is that too may of its inhabitants dont know any different, cuz they arent old enough to have experienced how things used to be.

when i was a kid, a divorced person was RARE. and i knew of no kid who did not live with both biological parents.

we all had dinner time, where the whole family ate dinner together at the dining room table.
http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/...0750INP-P.jpeg

Soup kitchen lineup

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j...97335110988742

Sinfidel 04-11-2014 01:54 PM

Quoting JimmyJerk -

Quote:

kids in general, had a fairly stable environment.

contrast that with today
Quote:

Irish Inquiry Hears How Children Were Systematically Beaten and Abused in Catholic Home for Children


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...-for-children/

Sinfidel 04-11-2014 02:19 PM

JimmyJerk wrote:

Quote:

and so while i am not gonna waste my time on reading these sorts of posts, i truly do not dislike you as people.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...QqWnmxXRJS7yjO

Sinfidel 04-11-2014 02:27 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678295)



but i realize that most of you have all sorts of anger inside. and until you are able to release this anger, you will be stuck at the stage that you are in.

and so while i am not gonna waste my time on reading these sorts of posts, i truly do not dislike you as people.

i suspect that most of you will be in different stages 10 years from now - part of our growth and learning process.

http://americansfortruth.com/uploads...tian-Wacko.jpg

dogpet 04-11-2014 02:58 PM

http://s3.amazonaws.com/auteurs_prod...jpg?1316234227

ghoulslime 04-11-2014 03:55 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678295)
http://www.poetryring.com/ra/CreepyJimmyJerry1.jpg
When I was a boy, nobody ever touched our naughties! Little babies were delivered by angels to our dinner table while we were praying to Jesus. The world was paradise back then!

You angry baby murderers will rot in hell, but I forgive you anyway.

What is the lord trying to tell me in these shapes in my baked beans? Why do my fingers always smell like feces?

I wonder if I have any candy around here. The neighborhood children are looking pretty fine!

CreepyJimmyJerry is creepy!

jimmyjet 04-11-2014 10:19 PM

Quote:

Semper Idem wrote (Post 678290)

When you think about it, being pro-life all across the board is really a very socialist position. If life is a right, then everything needed to sustain life is also a right.

this does not follow correct logic, or even close.

each of us has a right to our own life. it does not at all follow that we have a right to the things that sustain life.

we simply do not have the right to take another's life, that is completely innocent.

we can certainly do something in our lives that causes our lives to be forfeited, such as murdering someone else.

the unborn has done no such thing.

jimmyjet 04-11-2014 10:23 PM

Quote:

Semper Idem wrote (Post 678290)
The fact that so many right-wingers disagree with these positions tells me that the antiabortion thing is really antiwoman at its core.

that is a huge stretch. anti-abortion is very simply a position that states that the unborn has a right to life, just like the born has a right to life.

nothing more, nothing less.

many, many women are against abortion. they are not against women.

jimmyjet 04-11-2014 10:41 PM

plus the thought that anti-abortion is anti-woman is not even accurate.

if anything, anti-abortion is pro-woman.

abortion tends to allow and even encourage men to sexploit women.

all they gotta do is put up some cash for the abortion.

the woman is the one that goes thru the operation, and is much more likely to be the one that has guilt about it in the future.

anti-abortion helps to keep equal responsibility for both mother and father.

jimmyjet 04-11-2014 10:44 PM

what anti-abortion does do is it HIGHLY ENCOURAGES people to be sexually responsible !!

and that my friends is why we even have a pro-choice argument.

like i said, the truth hurts !! but i will continue to state it.

ILOVEJESUS 04-12-2014 03:17 AM

No you will continue to spout shit. The fetus is not alive, therefore the whole debate is a fabricated pile of horse crap. Women should be able to choose whether to have a baby or not. As should the men in the relationship where applicable. Why not make surgery illegal as well? After all that may encourage us all to live healthier lives. Till we die of some curable disease of course.............

Sinfidel 04-12-2014 10:55 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678294)
hi semper,

you had some points about "pro-life".

let me state that pro-life and pro-choice are simply acronyms given SPECIFICALLY to the topic of abortion.

my acronyms would be "yes, i believe in killing unborn babies" and "no, i do not believe in killing unborn babies".

Quote:

The top 10 most psychopathic professions:

1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (TV/radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergyperson
9. Chef
10. Civil servant

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscr...h-correlation/

123

Sinfidel 04-12-2014 11:31 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678314)
what anti-abortion does do is it HIGHLY ENCOURAGES people to be sexually responsible !!

and that my friends is why we even have a pro-choice argument.

like i said, the truth hurts !! but i will continue to state it.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-cont...instrument.jpg

Sinfidel 04-12-2014 04:59 PM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678292)
hi semper,

and i have already stated several times, but will do so again - abortion would not be an issue if it was not tied to sex.

.



if you think about sex, god will kill you, and cause 10,000 kittens to die of Gonorrhea. You all will then rot in hell.

Religion is the purest form of insanity.

jimmyjet 04-12-2014 11:01 PM

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...tedbaby05.html

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...tedbaby11.html

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...tedbaby12.html

http://www.imagesofabortion.com/expo...UofWIHosp.aspx

http://www.imagesofabortion.com/expo...NWGenHosp.aspx

http://www.imagesofabortion.com/expo...veMedCntr.aspx

http://www.imagesofabortion.com/expo...talMedLab.aspx

Kinich Ahau 04-13-2014 12:50 AM

CreeeeepyJimmyJerry watching Leave it to Beaver makes me feel icky.

ILOVEJESUS 04-13-2014 02:23 AM

Has he come out of his theist shell yet? Why would I want to see pics of aborted fetus's? I wouldn't want to see a vasectomy video either by the way!

ghoulslime 04-13-2014 02:42 AM

Iím sure that CreepyJimmyJerry has a very special place deep in his motherís anus. She probably even loves him without charging the standard $20 up front, but for the rest of us, he is just plain creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy!

Sinfidel 04-13-2014 06:11 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote (Post 678321)
CreeeeepyJimmyJerry watching Leave it to Beaver makes me feel icky.

Wonder if its Wally or the Beaver that turns him on?...you know how Catlick clergy just love boy bums!

:rolleyes:

Sinfidel 04-13-2014 06:40 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678234)
if sex was something that did not create babies, and just done for enjoyment purposes, we would have none of this argument.

Riight - we should all follow the example of Catholic clergy and enjoy bum phukking altar boys and orphans, and then there'd be no abortion problem, eh Jimmy!

:bird:

Sinfidel 04-14-2014 04:31 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
biology 101 - each of our lives starts with the joining of a sperm and an egg.

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.
the only exact point is at conception.

Contradict yourself much, dumbcluck?

Sinfidel 04-14-2014 05:30 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

Why is itt that you theologues only focus on the "unborn child" aspect of the spectrum? What about the "undead corpses" at the other end of life? It's just horrible that these zombies with their decrepit old corpses cling to life when they should be dead and enjoying the afterlife.

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)
it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.

Exactly, and equally ridiculous to claim one can pinpoimt the exact moment when an undead corpse can die!
:bird:

Sinfidel 04-14-2014 06:14 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678228)
we celebrate our birthday based on the day of our birth.

and it is just that - a celebration.

it states nothing about our life inside the womb.

Why don't you tell us about yours - I'm sure you remember it well, since you were a fully formed person from conception.

Sinfidel 04-14-2014 06:31 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678211)

why not just cut off the guy's penis, and sew up the vagina for people who can not be responsible for their sexual actions ?

What is it with you sicko theologue psychopaths, so obsessed with other peoples sex lives, and so eager to engage in genital mutilation?

Oh wait, we know - the religion con is all about inculcating sexual guilt to keep the masses docile. But keep parotting your dogma, it's entertaining to see just how retarded you lot are.

Clifton 04-15-2014 06:36 PM

What is with these sick fucks? Sewing up vaginas, cutting off dicks; nobody cares what mentally ill people think. Unless you are thirsty, then we might give you some water. This, only after we sew your mouth shut because it resembles a cunt.

ghoulslime 04-16-2014 06:44 AM

Hereís a wild idea: How about letting women make their own decisions about reproduction? Each woman could decide whether or not she would like another human to form inside of her body, and creepy religious assholes could stop trying to control the sexuality and reproduction of other humans.

And CreepyJimmyJerry could continue to fuck farm animals, and bugger little children for Jesus, and such!

ILOVEJESUS 04-16-2014 07:18 AM

How about I decide who plants their willies in what holes? I have first dibs across the spectrum of course!

ghoulslime 04-16-2014 06:40 PM

I wonder what has happened to CreepyJimmyJerry. Do you suppose he got tired of talking to himself, or did he finally run out of illogical, imbecilic, and creepy things to say?

Isnít it Jesus Groundhog Day pretty soon? Perhaps CreepyJimmyJerry is off hunting Jesus anal eggs or something? CreepyJimmyJerry only collects the unfertilized Easter eggs, you know?

Semper Idem 04-17-2014 09:32 AM

Quote:

jimmyjet wrote (Post 678311)
this does not follow correct logic, or even close.

each of us has a right to our own life. it does not at all follow that we have a right to the things that sustain life.

we simply do not have the right to take another's life, that is completely innocent.

we can certainly do something in our lives that causes our lives to be forfeited, such as murdering someone else.

the unborn has done no such thing.

Sorry for the late response; my 'puter went south for a few days and posting a thoughtful response from an iPhone is like masturbating with tweezers. Anyhoo...

Being pro-life means exactly that, being in favour of sustaining human life. If your concern for life ends at birth, you're simply anti-abortion. That's why, in the USA, the right to a fair trial includes the right to a lawyer, and the state will provide a public defender to the destitute. It's the same way here; if something is a universal right, then the things needed to sustain that right must be accessible to all. This includes subsidizing that right for those who cannot afford it (see my example about public defenders for destitute people in the dock).

I suggest you read up about the consistent life ethic AKA seamless garment. I think you'd be surprised at to what pro-life truly means - and it ain't just anti-abortion, either.

dogpet 04-17-2014 02:41 PM

So what about young ladies who don't know they've been invaded till it's too late? 60% in young offenders institutions have been in the care of local authority!
Can someone pure of tongue ask the dipshit if he thinks woman's sanitary products should be tax free?


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