Thread: Just Curious
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:59 PM   #28
Sternwallow
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Quote:
Egor wrote View Post
First off, God is not an object. An object would have to be like a subset of a larger set. There is no larger set. There is only God. It's the only thing that exists. It wasn't created; it simply always has been, in one singular eternal moment.
The universe is the object that you say is god. It is a single set that is not part of a larger set of what we can only know (imperfectly) as reality.

The notion that the universe, having a starting point in time, must have been created is not the atheist view, it is the expected common theist view.

For several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that atheism is not a world view, atheism has no position on the question of whether the universe was created or not.
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Who created God is one of the biggest problems atheists have with the existence of God. But they don't realize that their question is nonsensical when they're talking about God, with a capital "G". To use the ontological argument, existence is an attribute of God.
The ontological argument is not as strong as you seem to think. It has weakness in its areas of self-reference.
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Now you may not be able to picture that in your head; I only catch glimpses of it myself. But think about it this way: If anything exists outside of time, such as a mind existing before the Big Bang, it isn't affected by time. That means it cannot have a beginning. That means it simply is--eternally. It simply exists in an eternal present moment.
How, do you suppose, the universe, has a companion realm, part of it outside, without the universe being exactly the subset that you said was not possible for god?
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And that's not so hard to conceive of. Isn't it the way it is for us, too, even in the physical world? Isn't it true that the past is gone forever and the future has never happened? Don't we, as a mind, live in an eternal present moment?
No, we do not exist in an eternal present moment, we live in an instantaneous present moment, more's the pity sometimes.

In a deterministic universe, all of time from beginning to end, that is all of history, would have an equal existence even though, as you say, we can only perceive a tiny sliver at a time.
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So, what's wrong with that? And it's only profound because so many people don't get it, but it's really simple. What's insane is to build an entire belief system, such as atheism,

Correction, atheism is not a belief system. It is a position on a single proposition.
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... around concepts of God that only a moron would believe. You think you're so smart, wearing geek-chic glasses, and proudly proclaiming there's no such thing as an old man with a white beard in a place called heaven with golden streets.
That is not our idea, it is the crap from the Bible that is part of the Christian claims. I have rescinded my incorrect attachment of you to Christianity. Let us move on,
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Your[sic] like an intellectual rube shouting out with all the arrogance you can muster that 2 + 2 DOES NOT! = 5.
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That seems like the anger and insults that you claimed to be against earlier. Just sayin'.
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As for my worldview, it's a lot simpler than Philosophy 101.
It looks like your worldview is kept simple by not considering some of the implications that I referenced above. And, remember that it does not simplify a point to say that it is a consequence of the single most complex item in the universe, that is, god.

"god did it" explains nothing, proves nothing, simplifies nothing.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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