[Michael]

Egor wrote

There is only God. It's the only thing that exists. It wasn't created; it simply always has been, in one singular eternal moment.

Now you may not be able to picture that in your head; I only catch glimpses of it myself. But think about it this way: If anything exists outside of time, such as a mind existing before the Big Bang, it isn't affected by time. That means it cannot have a beginning. That means it simply is--eternally. It simply exists in an eternal present moment.

And that's not so hard to conceive of. Isn't it the way it is for us, too, even in the physical world? Isn't it true that the past is gone forever and the future has never happened? Don't we, as a mind, live in an eternal present moment?

I have asked this on these forums before, and I'll ask it again. If you need to have something as being "uncreated" to make things right, why is it that you're allowed to make that thing god, but the universe isn't granted the same priviledge? By saying the universe can't have been "not created" therefore a god must exist is just adding an extra step and making things more complicated than they need to be.

I heard an argument once that some of the things you said remind me of, which I'd like to try to re-state hear. Now, bear in mind I'm no philosopher or scientist so my portrayal probably won't be elegant or complete. But I'd like to give it a go.

Time and Space exist together. Without something to to observe time, time is irrelevant. If we take the view that there was nothing before the "big bang", then there was nothing to observe time. We can, then, confer that as far as being observable the universe has always existed.


Now, if we say "Aha! but god exists outside of our space, therefore he was observing and the universe had a beginning! Yes! Score one for the away team!", that's fine, but then you've added a whole lot of problems. Where does this god "exist" outside of everything? It can't exist in nothing, otherwise it is nothing. Nothing with something in it is something. So then how did this something come about? God can't have created it, he/she is in it. It must have been created, once again, by an external source. And so it goes.


So the addition of a god only serves to make this equation far more complicated than it need be. If you need something to be "uncreated" in order for things to make sense to you, it is best to allow the universe to be that and make things a whole lot cleaner.