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Old 03-27-2018, 04:05 PM   #4109
Simon Moon
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 117
Quote:
JerryJohn wrote View Post
It IS an obvious fact that God exists and you SHOULD believe it.
Demonstrable evidence and reasoned arguments please...

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The problem is your heart is hardened and brainwashed by the "logical crowd" who themselves disagree on exactly what IS and consists of logic. (Check out "The Logical Song" by Supertramp.)
Not so. There is no such thing as different logic. There is just logic.

The logical absolutes, are always true. The law of noncontradiction, the law of identity, the law of excluded middle are attributes of reality.

Funny, how logic and evidence work for advancements and invention of: modern medicine, physics, aeronautics, automobiles, cell phones, the drastic increase of human life spans in the last 100 years, criminal science, etc, etc, etc. Yet, you want to give it up when it comes to belief in your god.

I'll bet you go to the doctor when you or a family member gets sick, and not rely on prayer. I'll bet you would not board a plane that was designed using faith or ancient texts, instead of the logic and evidence method that is used.


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The problem is that you do not believe that the Bible is the written and Inspired Word of God.
This it true, but it is not a problem. I also don't believe the Book of Mormon, the Koran or the Vedas are the inspired words of other gods.

The problem really is, that you believe the Bible is evidence for your claim, when in true fact, it IS the claim.

Using the Bible to prove the claims in the Bible is, wait for it.... circular reasoning. The Muslims also claim that the Koran is proof of the claims withing the Koran.

If that form of reasoning does not work for the Loran, it won't work for the Bible.


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Therefore, you cannot discern the truth.
Sure I can. Not having a presupposition that the Bible is true does not preclude me from discerning the truth.

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You instead rely on fallible humans that you think have it right. Who is to say the scientists that are theists are not right?
I rely on the set of tool that have shown to be the most reliable path to truth.

You are also relying in fallible humans. The texts that you are relying on, were not written until decades or more after the alleged events, by anonymous authors, who were not eyewitnesses, and they contain contradictions. We have no originals, so there is no way to tell if they are even accurate copies of the originals, and it is known for a fact that there are several added passages, that are not in the oldest versions of the texts (Mark 16:9-20, John 7:53-8:11, John 21 to name a few) .


You are suggesting I use the same tools, that lead 1.5 billion Muslims and 1.1 billion Hindus to the wrong (according to you) beliefs.

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Sometimes logic that is of human nature can fail miserably. Rethink your position on who has the better truth, God or a handful of humans that just happen to believe the same as you do, while you discard the others that are scientists, I might add as wrong. The reason you reject them if you would face the truth is that they disagree with your "logical" point of view.

Thoughts to consider.

I do not believe there is a god, so how could I believe it has 'the better truth'?
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