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Lily wrote
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Mog wrote
Spotted Steve G stating this back in page 3. Missed quite a bit of nonsense, when I was away for a few hours after starting this thread.
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...It's a paradox to be sure, that I readily admit, but reality is rife with paradoxes whether we are believer or non-believer.
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The big question that Steve G should be asking, is are there any paradoxes that we confront as a non-believer that is resolved as a believer? If there aren't, this statement is what we can derisively deride as "rationalizing" the irrational.
Ah well, at least Steve G is willing to admit that his beliefs can be paradoxical. Try to get Lily to admit it. |
Mog, it isn't the least bit hard for me or any other Christian to admit that our theology contains paradoxes. Why would it be? Keep in mind that a paradox is a statement that seems contradictory but is, nevertheless, true (or may be true). What is to worry about that?
From what I have seen here, I am guessing that you were brought up in an atheist home? It is hard for me otherwise to understand how unfamiliar basic Christian beliefs are to you. |
Steve was pointing out as a paradox:
"God's will holds all things in existence and therefore is the ultimate cause for all our circumstance, AND we have the freedom to affect those circumstances as well."
That's only a paradox if you accept both sides of the equasion with equal validity. I fully expect that both Steve and Lily see:
"God's will holds all things in existence and therefore is the ultimate cause for all our circumstance."
There is no paradox there. The way I see it, and this is only my opinion... I am not "putting words in someone's mouth" what Steve really meant was:
"God's will holds all things in existence and therefore is the
majority cause for all our circumstance, if you play ball, you are with grace. If you buck the circumstance as set up by god, either by choice or by god's will, you will be eternally punished"
Note that god's contribution to the 'circumstance' as put forward in the paradox is unchanged whether grace or damnation are manifested.
The obvious flaw (Obvious to me, not to Steve) is that there is no rational basis to accept the first part of the paradox. As such, that is the part you must discard.
Reconstructing the phrase to eliminate the paradox is the work of a non compartmentalized mind, Once you hold that a paradox can be left standing because of an automatic 'true', your thinking becomes compartmentalized and irrrational.
I, of course, would not stop there. Once I have the new statement:
"God's will holds all things in existence and therefore is the
majority cause for all our circumstance, if you play ball, you are with grace. If you buck the circumstance as set up by god, either by choice or by god's will, you will be eternally punished"
I would have to question the validity of a deity that dishes out eternal torment on a whim. Since there is no evidential basis for this, I have to discard the entire statement as bullshit.