cool article - societies work better without God says new study

In the Times (London) today, accompanied by a photo of cross-buring klan members captioned 'prejudice in the guise of religiosity'


Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

Very interesting, but few theist would believe it.

miata wrote

Very interesting, but few theist would believe it.

What was the phrase somebody here used, "psycho-theist" or something? Guess having to keep all that "mystery" crap and "three-in-one deity" idea warps minds...

[Kamikaze189]

Theists: *covering ears* LALALALALALALAALAL CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING LALALALALALALALALALALA

Oliver, this was a great find. I'm keeping a pdf of it on my machine. Thank you.

[Choobus]

In all fairness, the problems of the US are not solely caused by religious assclowns, and of those that are it is often the assclown aspect of their nature that is the root cause. I don't see how they can control for assclownery and really show that religiosity is a cause.

Having said that, theists are cunts who need to jack off more and talk less. I cannot prove this assertion, but I believe it in my heart and have faith that it is absolutely true. In fact, I am so convinced that it is undeniable that I will strike down all who disagree, and this must be taught in our schools, and the clubhouse where me and my cronies get together to discuss thematter must be free of the burdensome taxes of the state, for we answer to a higher power: the power of JACK.

[GodlessHeathen]

Choobus wrote

In all fairness, the problems of the US are not solely caused by religious assclowns, and of those that are it is often the assclown aspect of their nature that is the root cause. I don't see how they can control for assclownery and really show that religiosity is a cause.

I would tend to agree with this somewhat. The higher murder rate in the US could be attributed to the availability of firearms. Several of the other problems, though, like higher abortion rate, higher incidence of STDs, and higher rate of teenage pregnancy could easily be traced to religion. We have the "abstinence only" sex-ed bullshit, and parents get their panties all in a wad when contraception gets taught. If the Xtian right would get their heads out of their asses and realize that they're doing more harm than good, and kids were taught how to use condoms in school, we could bring those numbers down.

[Choobus]

I think that you are discounting the enormous disparity in the socio-economic conditions of the people of the US. There is an undoubted correlation between poverty and crime, abortion, STD's and the like, and I believe that this is a more likely cause for the results alluded to.

Now, the US has a very distorted way of providing social services; one that is quite different from those in Europe, and so the poor are relatively much poorer than the poor of the countries mentioned in the article. I would say that the religious aspect shows up in how these problems are dealt with. As you have said, the abstinence only program is a sick joke and does nothing to help (most likely it makes things worse), and similarly the poor are given no help but are, in a myriad of cruel and unusual ways, actually trapped into their poverty. Thus, it is very difficult indeed for them to break out of this situation, and inevitably the number of people in such circumstances will grow. Again, the religious aspects of government (and they DO exist) are essentially perpetuating this arrangement, because it is beneficial to certain right wing groups. However, I would like to suggest that this is more to do with rampant capitalism than anything else (although I will add that the right wing capitalists who are responsible (that is to say, republicans and to some extent ineffectual democrats) are generally christians).

To refute one point in a rather absurd manner let me ask this question: "what is the abortion rate in Saudi Arabia?"

Finally, I should like to say that wanking should be made mandatory in schools. All praise Jack

Choobus wrote

I think that you are discounting the enormous disparity in the socio-economic conditions of the people of the US. There is an undoubted correlation between poverty and crime, abortion, STD's and the like, and I believe that this is a more likely cause for the results alluded to.

Observing the changes in this country since Bush came into power, I think there is strong case for religion predisposing a population for poverty. The wealth of the Churches did not come from the wealthy.

[Choobus]

I still have to say that rampant capitalism (by which I mean American capitalism: the UK is also a capitalist society, but it has limits, and a lot more of the GDP is used for things like healthcare and social services) is more to blame. George bush may be a full on god botherer, but his econmic policies are hardcore right wing capitalism, and that is what has caused the most obvious increases in poverty during his reign.

Choobus wrote

... but his econmic policies are hardcore right wing capitalism, and that is what has caused the most obvious increases in poverty during his reign.

No, if he were a Capitalist worshiping Libertarian, he would be removing barriers to entry, not creating them. One bidder on Government contracts is not honoring the Free Market. Frightening Govt debt is not Capitalist friendly. And a true Conservative would be trying to retain the status quo not engaging in Imperialistic behavior. GWB is a religious reactionary.

And he's made us poorer. And he's increased the number of people that profess to believe in God.

[Choobus]

he's made you poorer, but if you happen to own a multinational company he has substantially increased your wealth. In fact, if you make over 200K per year you are on easy street thanks to dubya.

he may have increased the number of people who profess to believe in god, but that means nothing. Dubya's legacy will have much more longevity than any president in recent history. This is not a good (or god) thing.

EDIT: I never said he was a libertarian. He's a fascist in disguise

Jennifer wrote

Oliver, this was a great find. I'm keeping a pdf of it on my machine. Thank you.

No probs :)

I copied it from here (after I saw it in the paper version):

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...798944,00.html

Very nice article, but as choobus said there is more to work in the US then just religion is to blame...but still it is a cancer on our socity, and needs to be removed.....

Edit:Here is the original article published in the Journal of Religion and Socity.....

sorry if this is off topic but i don't see what the problem with capitalism is. There are corrupt aspects in every walk of life. I think cpitalism is by far the fairest style of governing. The productive people that contribute to better services businesses etc are rewarded and i would rather kill myself than live in a world where left wing hippies tried to pretend everyone should have a fair share of each others rewards. We are an evolving species that has grown from slime into civilised humans because we looked out for ourselves and our families by getting what we can (its called the selfish gene and is vital to any species).
A well run capitalist society (which the US and UK are not) means that the rich get richer AND the poor get richer. Taxing the rich isn't the way to help the poor, taxing causes an economic slowdown (no spending money) so companies dont make so much and cut jobs, the poor everyday workers end up on the scrap heap again. Low taxes means more spending and everyone benefits, i think it is dangerous when do gooder (xtians) get involved with economics (and all sciences for that matter) because their systems wont ever work.

Look at switzerland they are the closest to a perfect state i feel Low income tax and zero cap gains tax. Everywhere, clean and modern with low crime. Federal government irrelevant because cantons (states) run the show. One of the wealthiest nations per capita on the planet. A "voice"? Try referendums. That's right, anything of significant national interest always goes to the people. The Swiss are too smart to trust their politicians. That's real democracy in action! Public schools? ...best around. They actually have standards. Kids come out of high school speaking three languages and don't even think about it. How do they finance such services like top quality public transport and schools with low taxation? Cos they don't piss money around the place for no reason that's why. As for privacy, it isn't just a right in Switzerland - it's enshrined in law. Compare that to the U.S.