Old 12-14-2005, 04:21 PM   #1
vrang
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I find the character Lucifer(the light bringer), kind of facinating. If I look at the christian god as a tyrann, who even thoug he doesnt exist limit the mind and ways of many a christian, moslem and jew.
Well I was a christian for some years. My kind of christianity was a wery supressing one, giving me hell.
Now as Im throug with christianity(yes, I got sane), I hate god, even though he does not exist. In this context, I have sort of started viewing Lucifer as a symbol against god`s oppresion. But wery litle is to be foun on the web about lucifer, so I figured maybe some of you atheist knew somthing. Did Lucifer turn into Satan? does the bible actually cover this subject, or is it just christian mythology. I know there are a few luciferian orders, but as most occult organisations, there are much secresy. So Im just wondering, any info would be great. Thanks! Im not a beliver, just facinated by mythology...
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Old 12-14-2005, 05:02 PM   #2
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vrang wrote
I find the character Lucifer(the light bringer), kind of facinating. If I look at the christian god as a tyrann, who even thoug he doesnt exist limit the mind and ways of many a christian, moslem and jew.
Well I was a christian for some years. My kind of christianity was a wery supressing one, giving me hell.
Now as Im throug with christianity(yes, I got sane), I hate god, even though he does not exist. In this context, I have sort of started viewing Lucifer as a symbol against god`s oppresion. But wery litle is to be foun on the web about lucifer, so I figured maybe some of you atheist knew somthing. Did Lucifer turn into Satan? does the bible actually cover this subject, or is it just christian mythology. I know there are a few luciferian orders, but as most occult organisations, there are much secresy. So Im just wondering, any info would be great. Thanks! Im not a beliver, just facinated by mythology...
I seem to recall there is some similarity between Lucifer and Prometheus. You might check that connection-
http://messagenet.com/myths/bios/promethe.html Pandora reminds me of my first wife...:o
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:32 PM   #3
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Lucifer is an interesting character...

Originally, some people say that lucifer was the angel that covered gods throne, while others say it was a reference to a powerful pagan king at the time.

Some people say Satan and Lucifer are the same, but for the most part, they are not, as most modern bibles replace all demonic names with "satan" or "demon".

There is a possible connection with Lucifer and Prometheus, but all cultures are connected and don't exist in a vacuum.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:04 AM   #4
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I find the devil even more difficult to believe than God. At least God's motives make sense. Are we to believe that Lucifer is some sort of mad man that just wants pain and suffering?

I tend to think of the devil as some sort of boogey man. Is this the right image? I guess whenever I think about hell I just think of nonsense. If god was so good he'd figure out a way to cure people that had ethical problems rather than just putting them in some place of arbitrary misery.

edit: mormons don't really believe in hell btw so they kindof get past the problem with this one, but not alot of the other problems with religion. Actually Mormons DO believe in the devil though--I guess they call hell "outer darkness" but they don't believe in hell in the sense that they don't think that anyone who didn't decide to side with Satan initially could go there. Or maybe I am wrong on this. I don't really care too much. Mormons change thier beliefs whenever it is convenient anyway lol.
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:52 AM   #5
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Lucifer is a Latin word; lux (light) and ferre (to bear) meaning light-bearer. A close translation of the Greek: heosphoros, the “dawn-bringer,” used to represent the Morning star. The phrase in Isaiah 14:12, ‘helel ben shachar,’ means ‘shinning one, son of morning.’ Isaiah 14:4 tells us whom Isaiah 14 is about, “that thou shalt take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and say: How hath the oppressor ceased! the exactress of gold ceased!” Isaiah 14 is a prophecy pointing to the future time when Belshazzar became the last king of Babylon.
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Old 12-17-2005, 08:41 AM   #6
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My favorite story of Lucifer is that he was an angel that refused to bow before God's latest creation of man.

That's one smart angel.

If religion were based on facts, it would be called science, and no one would believe it. -- Stephen Colbert
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:24 AM   #7
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ya you don't hear too much about lucifer except for that story. If you did some people might start sympathizing with him.
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Old 12-17-2005, 05:57 PM   #8
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vrang wrote
I find the character Lucifer(the light bringer), kind of facinating. If I look at the christian god as a tyrann, who even thoug he doesnt exist limit the mind and ways of many a christian, moslem and jew.
Well I was a christian for some years. My kind of christianity was a wery supressing one, giving me hell.
Now as Im throug with christianity(yes, I got sane), I hate god, even though he does not exist. In this context, I have sort of started viewing Lucifer as a symbol against god`s oppresion. But wery litle is to be foun on the web about lucifer, so I figured maybe some of you atheist knew somthing. Did Lucifer turn into Satan? does the bible actually cover this subject, or is it just christian mythology. I know there are a few luciferian orders, but as most occult organisations, there are much secresy. So Im just wondering, any info would be great. Thanks! Im not a beliver, just facinated by mythology...
How true!! Lucem Ferram....the name the Romans gave to venus..the bringer of light. Hmmm..venus was so envious of the Sun ( god), as Set (where the word Satan comes from) the brother of Osiris, which was also a solar deity was envious of him.

There was one person that created all of this monotheistic delusional nonsense of a " father that is in "heaven" that wears the stars as a garment giving life to the fields etc etc. This man was Akhenaten ( pharoah of the 18 Dynasty- ca 1350 bce) Judaism and rest of ONE-GOD heavenly father insanity cults of Rome, Persia etl....giving raise to Christianity and Islam originated with the THINKING of this man.

Tangible Evidence of this connection can be seen on the site of his capital city ( erased to the ground, as well as his reign, by his enemies) Akhentate today know as Tel el Amarna. The Hym to the Sun-God, discovered recently by archaeologists, is undoubtedly where the Jews and later Christians got their Sun-god from. This HYm to the sun-god (aka, Jaoweh, Jesus, et ) can be seen on the PSALM 104 of the Babble!

The observation of the solar system, volcanones, the four elements and ingestion of psychoactive substances contributed to the creation of God and religious beliefs.:)

http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/psalm104.html

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 12-20-2005, 01:16 PM   #9
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Did you ever see the south park episode where everyone went to hell because they followed the wrong religion and when someone asked Satan what was the right religion, he responded 'mormon'. That was some funny stuff because mormons DON'T believe in hell :lol:
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:03 AM   #10
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Mormons don't believe in hell in the sense that it's a place with fire and brimstone. In fact, the worst that they believe could happen to you is you go to a world much like this one.
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:06 AM   #11
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ArchyDeluxe wrote
Did you ever see the south park episode where everyone went to hell because they followed the wrong religion and when someone asked Satan what was the right religion, he responded 'mormon'. That was some funny stuff because mormons DON'T believe in hell :lol:
That was a funny episode! Satan had that nice boyfriend, Chris. He was such a nice guy, I asked my friend, "Why is Chris in hell, he seems like a really good person?" My friend said, "Isn't it obvious.....He's gay!" I found that amusing.
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:41 PM   #12
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I think i can help you out with this one. Satan has not existed eternally, he was created.

Revelation 12:7 - 9(NASB):

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

This I believe is the clearest account of Satan's activities before being cast down that I know of in the Scripture. We know it was Satan, in the form of a serpent, that tempted Eve in the garden of Eden. 1 Chron. 21:2 says that Satan was responsible for causing David to commit sin. Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-7 we see the activity of Satan in tempting Job.

He is called Satan,

The Devil (Mt. 13:39);

the Dragon (Rev. 12:3);

Beelzebub (Matt. 10:25);

Belial (2 Cor. 6:15);

and Lucifer in the KJV in Isa. 14:12.

He is referred to as the Evil One (Matt. 13:19);

the Tempter (Matt. 4:3);

The god of this world (age) (2 Cor. 4:4);

the Ruler of the kingdom of the air (Eph. 2:2);

the prince of this world (Jn. 12:31).

Two passages that are often used to teach about Satan are Ezekiel 28:11-19 and Isaiah 14:12-14. Both of these passages should be used with extreme caution.

One should always be aware of the context of a Biblical passage before trying to teach anything from it. In its context Ezek. 28:11-19 is a description of the King of Tyre. To go beyond this in explaining this passage is to go without biblical support. NEVER in Scripture is the context in Ezek. 28 used to speak of Satan.

Similarly, Isa. 14:12-14 speaks of the king of Babylon. The KJV adds "Lucifer" to verse 12 for unknown reasons. Isa. 14 is speaking in figurative language of the downfall of the nation of Babylon.

It could be said in both these passages that the King of Tyre and the King of Babylon were the very personification of Satan. In this case we can assume that certain characteristics of these evil kings are characteristics of Satan.

What we do know about Satan is this. He was a created being, an angel, who was judged because of his rebellion, which the New Testament hints was sparked by his pride (1Tim.3:6). He is the one responsible for introducing evil to this world. Now he desires to devour God's creation by tempting man to reject his Creator.

This is then the lesson we must learn. Satan--an angel created by God--was given the free will to choose whether or not he would obey God. He disobeyed, and that disobedience was evil.

Satan made himself evil by choosing to do evil.

In the same way, humans may choose to do right or wrong, and through their choices, evil flourishes.

So... it was choice that caused Satan to be evil, not an act of Creation.
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:46 PM   #13
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psyadam wrote
Mormons don't believe in hell in the sense that it's a place with fire and brimstone. In fact, the worst that they believe could happen to you is you go to a world much like this one.
yeah, and you have to live in Utah

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Old 12-23-2005, 02:52 PM   #14
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psyadam wrote
Mormons don't believe in hell in the sense that it's a place with fire and brimstone. In fact, the worst that they believe could happen to you is you go to a world much like this one.
yeah, and you have to live in Utah
The concept of Satan and hell does not exist in Judaism as it does in Christianity.
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:16 AM   #15
vrang
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Thanks for all your answers, lots of intresting reads.
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