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chrisandrew wrote

I made a decision based on valid reason.

Wrong.

[Choobus]

chrisandrew wrote

I was not born believing in the message of Jesus . I made a decision based on valid reason. I will share them if you like or not. Were any of you born athiests or did you decide to become one because of some reason ? I respectfully would ask you please share . If you would I would be thankful.

ok dingus. My parents never felt the need to lie to me, so I was not provided any religious instruction until I was capable of seeing it for what is was (at about age 8, and it came from local busy bodies, not my parents). Therefore, I have never been influenced enough to think that the absurdities of the buybull could be anything other than made up shit. That was obvious to me at age 8 (possibly younger), and it is no different now. This is one of the reasons why I consider those who really believe (many so-called theists are actually just liars who don't believe it anymore than I do) to have a mental age that is generally pre-teen (and, unfortunately, their mental age dictates their sexual predelictions).

I expect you to thank me for this information.

Eva wrote

we are all born atheist.
religion is pounded into us since an early age (for most of us, not all).
once we realize belief in any gods is silly, we become atheists.

what are your valid reasons?

thank you . You are right we are born with an atheist perspective . I was told to acknowledge God as a child but I didn't . I went on to not acknowledge any authority whatsoever (lawlessness) . Of course I hurt alot of people along the way , most of all I hurt myself (I was going off the rails on a crazytrain). Drug dealing, drug abuse , detectives, court cases, investigetions,prison,deportation,std's, paying for abortion,constantly lying ,stealing,rape... I was starting to scare myself after lying my way out of one prison sentence after another. I was not getting away with anything I was miserable , lonely , could not trust anyone . I was not in jail but it felt like it when finally I opened a small tract( christian) and read that Gods' will is that none should perish(2Peter3:9). I felt like I was perishing and said " God if it is your will I dont perish then , DO YOUR WILL I dont care what!". I felt things could not get any worse I can not trust anyone lets give God a shot(see what He want to do). Within 2 months everything was different, complete 180, my emotions my physical cicumstances(no more depresion ,no more wanting to drink or get high). One day I noticed I did not give a second look to a girl( I lived for whoremongering). I was content ! Amazed I said "God what happened to me?" I heard the voice of God , He said "you asked me to do my will"...... Huh allright so I keep asking God "DO YOUR WILL" and trying to do what Jesus said ( new testament),simple as that! The contentment is incredible the blessings are evident ! I never knew what it felt like to be loved or even what love was. I am not looking back unless I find a reason can you help me?

[Irreligious]

chrisandrew wrote

I was not born believing in the message of Jesus . I made a decision based on valid reason. I will share them if you like or not. Were any of you born athiests or did you decide to become one because of some reason ? I respectfully would ask you please share . If you would I would be thankful.

Even though many people are born to Christian parents (and Muslim parents and Hindu parents and Jewish parents, and parents who subscribe to the tenets of Voodoo and Santeria and, literally hundreds of other alleged mystical practices), no one is born a Christian. Have you ever met a three-year-old who, unprompted, professed a belief in Jesus Christ as his or her personal savior?

So, yes, we are all born atheist as a matter of course. Like many, I was raised to be a Christian, but none of what I was taught ever made any sense to me. Hence, I cannot profess to having ever been a believer in the alleged unearthly powers of the ultimate white man to hail from the Middle East 2,000 + years ago. If this man ever lived at all, he's surely dead now.

As for the alleged dead man's alleged alter-ego-- the purported invisible and immaterial but all-powerful and all-knowing, bearded old white man in the sky-- well, that figure is a patently absurd creation of deranged human minds, as far as I'm concerned.

If, indeed, that alleged entity was the product of fertile imaginations born long ago in the erstwhile Fertile Crescent, I suspect that he, despite being invisible, started out a bit more tan and grew whiter as he was co-opted to reign over Europe.

Whatever.

It is my impression that he was definitely made in the image of his creators and then re-made in the image of his more technologically powerful co-opters. That is, if they similarly possessed the powers to run roughshod over any and everyone who stood in the way of their quest for world domination. Omnipotence, if you like.

So, what convinces you that you could know anything about an actual alleged god, if one exists out there in the universe?

[Eva]

listen, first up: we don't care much about the buyble. (that's bible for you).
second, i think you got scared into reforming yourself. that is great. you did not need any gods for that. you did this on your own.
third: depression is not a temporary sadness. it is diagnosed by a professional. maybe you were jut incredibly sad and despairing because your life was sucky. if you are not depressed anymore, maybe it is because you are taking responsibility for your actions.
fourth: gods are imaginary. yup, it's all in your head. if you hear voices in your head, go to a mental health specialist pronto.
fifth: god belief is the ultimate placebo, when the placebo effect fades, you still have to take care of your reality. be prepared. a lapse is to be expected. however, if you stop believing in sky-daddies, this can be avoided. your natural high will come from pride of your own accomplishments, and not from a silly, stone-age belief in imaginary brings.

glad to be of some help.

expect more "help" from others here soon.

[Irreligious]

Now I feel bad about my cheeky little post. ChrisAndrew is clearly not ready for such irreverent whimsy.

Seriously, ChrisAndrew, if you've found solace in your imaginary god figure and that is all that is keeping you from going off the rails again, then you surely don't need to be hanging around here.

I've never been a Christian, yet I've also never been compelled to deal illegal narcotics, abuse them, indiscriminately transmit STDs to others or otherwise hurt people who have done me no harm. Now I'm not claiming that any of that makes me special, but I've never required the services of an invisible god-man to get me through my life relatively unscathed. Folks who need what you do to survive usually have a very unhappy experience at ravingatheists.com.

Choobus wrote

ok dingus. My parents never felt the need to lie to me, so I was not provided any religious instruction until I was capable of seeing it for what is was (at about age 8, and it came from local busy bodies, not my parents). Therefore, I have never been influenced enough to think that the absurdities of the buybull could be anything other than made up shit. That was obvious to me at age 8 (possibly younger), and it is no different now. This is one of the reasons why I consider those who really believe (many so-called theists are actually just liars who don't believe it anymore than I do) to have a mental age that is generally pre-teen (and, unfortunately, their mental age dictates their sexual predelictions).

I expect you to thank me for this information.

Thank you Choobus. I apprieciate your honesty.In regards to your comment ;profound! you agree with what Jesus said:" unless you turn and become like children , you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven."(Matthew18:3) You are very wise in the analysis of your observations, right on ! I did not get the sex thing . Thanks again .

Irreligious wrote

Now I feel bad about my cheeky little post. ChrisAndrew is clearly not ready for such irreverent whimsy.

Seriously, ChrisAndrew, if you've found solace in your imaginary god figure and that is all that is keeping you from going off the rails again, then you surely don't need to be hanging around here.

I've never been a Christian, yet I've also never been compelled to deal illegal narcotics, abuse them, indiscriminately transmit STDs to others or otherwise hurt people who have done me no harm. Now I'm not claiming that any of that makes me special, but I've never required the services of an invisible god-man to get me through my life relatively unscathed. Folks who need what you do to survive usually have a very unhappy experience at ravingatheists.com.

Irreligious stop immediately don't feel bad ! I appriciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts . I have heard much much worse from my own family(strangely they are atheists disguised as church goers). At least you would be honest about your position. Thank you. It is going to take alot more than sharp words to convince me to leave the rock I stand on(3:16) You see you dont reject me just my God(JESUS)I cannot be offended. Like Choobus said most theists are liars so thanks again for bieng honest about your position.

[Irreligious]

Well, if Jesus is the rock upon which you stand, why tread here? Seriously?

I mean, if you're secure in what you believe, why do you care what atheists think about it? You must know that most atheists find your beliefs preposterous.

And it doesn't seem to me that you could care one whit why that is. So, what is the point of "slumming," as it were? Are you hoping to be amused by some of the irreverence here? The place is brimming with it, if that's what you're after.

chrisandrew wrote

thank you . You are right we are born with an atheist perspective . I was told to acknowledge God as a child but I didn't . I went on to not acknowledge any authority whatsoever (lawlessness) . Of course I hurt alot of people along the way , most of all I hurt myself (I was going off the rails on a crazytrain). Drug dealing, drug abuse , detectives, court cases, investigetions,prison,deportation,std's, paying for abortion,constantly lying ,stealing,rape... I was starting to scare myself after lying my way out of one prison sentence after another. I was not getting away with anything I was miserable , lonely , could not trust anyone . I was not in jail but it felt like it when finally I opened a small tract( christian) and read that Gods' will is that none should perish(2Peter3:9). I felt like I was perishing and said " God if it is your will I dont perish then , DO YOUR WILL I dont care what!". I felt things could not get any worse I can not trust anyone lets give God a shot(see what He want to do). Within 2 months everything was different, complete 180, my emotions my physical cicumstances(no more depresion ,no more wanting to drink or get high). One day I noticed I did not give a second look to a girl( I lived for whoremongering). I was content ! Amazed I said "God what happened to me?" I heard the voice of God , He said "you asked me to do my will"...... Huh allright so I keep asking God "DO YOUR WILL" and trying to do what Jesus said ( new testament),simple as that! The contentment is incredible the blessings are evident ! I never knew what it felt like to be loved or even what love was. I am not looking back unless I find a reason can you help me?

What I high-lighted: are you looking for help here in this forum to find a reason to look back so you can go back to stealing, drug dealing, STD's and rape ?
I don't understand what you want from us. Are you serious or you are just playing games here?
Could you explain better so I can understand you, please, because what you said makes no sense at all.
If you think your god has helped you to stay away from hurting yourself and others you better stay that way for now and go and look for psychiatric help. And I'm not saying this to hurt you, I'm saying this with serious concern for your mental health.

Irreligious wrote

Well, if Jesus is the rock upon which you stand, why tread here? Seriously?

I mean, if you're secure in what you believe, why do you care what atheists think about it? You must know that most atheists find your beliefs preposterous.

And it doesn't seem to me that you could care one whit why that is. So, what is the point of "slumming," as it were? Are you hoping to be amused by some of the irreverence here? The place is brimming with it, if that's what you're after.

I am need of perseverence. I plan on going to a country that is hostile towards christians (India). It will be a serious test of my faith and your forum is a perfect place to learn to endure vicious verbal attacks ,common arguments, and really learn about how nonbelievers feel so to exist peacefully with them. I know I could get killed over there but God told me to go.(I can imagine what you must be thinking) I dont want to die a violent death but as I continue to react to everyday situations by applying the teachings of Jesus I am finding out its all about serving God and others. If back out of it and go back to living for myself than I find myself back in the clubs, drugs,whores and I am scared to think of what else. I know its not right but I love to do evil if I can get away with it. My own ways lead to self destruction and pain for others, I know. In my case the best thing for every one is if I just do what Jesus said do. It might cost me my life but better me die, than for me return to being the old me. So for me its to be an extremist for the cause of Christ(love). I have to constantly examine myself to see if I am in the faith . If I am a hypocrite whats the point I am just lying to myself and be like all the other so-called christians lying to everyone else . I am sick of lying . I want tell the truth even if its unpopular. I got to live for Jesus everyone else is better off if I do , seriously better off. Again, thank you for challenging me, I believe you to be honest your opinions are of value. I want to understand how people feel , honest people make this easier. I know one thing I cant change me thats why I leave it up to God to make me who he wants me to be . I just tell God "Do whatever you want with me" and I feel secure ,at peace , content . I believe God to be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and also loving me to the extreme , inspite of my evil deeds ,that he gave his Son for me .All I can do is be thankfull andgive him my life, so I am constantly. In this lonely world I find that what I want( need )the most is to be loved ,God has shown me he can more than satisfy that need . He also gives me the strength and courage to do what Jesus said . This is new to me before I would be partying hard all the time now I think about very deep things . I believe you also think about things deeply . Your point of view is something I want to understand . Thank you.

Livingstrong wrote

What I high-lighted: are you looking for help here in this forum to find a reason to look back so you can go back to stealing, drug dealing, STD's and rape ?
I don't understand what you want from us. Are you serious or you are just playing games here?
Could you explain better so I can understand you, please, because what you said makes no sense at all.
If you think your god has helped you to stay away from hurting yourself and others you better stay that way for now and go and look for psychiatric help. And I'm not saying this to hurt you, I'm saying this with serious concern for your mental health.

Livingstrong, thanks , I am scared too, looking back for me is terifying ,but not having an answer to your legitament problems with christianity is something I have to deal with. I have to know, why I believe what I believe ,or else like you said "get help". No there is nothing anyone could say to make give up the truest love I have ever known. Hearing the arguments from both sides provokes me to seek more answers from God .This process strengthens my belief and gives me something to meditate on. Kind of like putting my faith into action, and when God reveals that which was hidden its very special to me (undescribable joy). So far I just heard some very mild unbelief founded on bad experiences (hypocrites etc..)but I know there is more out there if you will allow me.You see I have three brothers ,all church goers but when I talk to them they seem to believe in something but it does not seem to be Jesus . They are glad I am staying out of jail but really dont care why. They seem to be atheists going along with the church routine they inherited from thier parents. They have some amazing arguments (fierce),so twisted, they seem to throw all religions in a bag and mix in a heap of atheism, I wish they would pick a side like the folks here in the R.A.F. Sorry to bore you with my personal life ,but thats why I am here :to learn to understand us humans. Since getting off drugs I am starting to notice the things people who are not on drugs are doing , thinking, saying , believing, just want to know how and why these things are the way they are and the world is the way it is. You know the age old philosphical questions where am I , why am I here ,and my own muse" how come you dont need God like I need God?" Thank you for your input . respectfully yours, chris

[Mog]

I'd like to think that there are better ways to understand an atheist point of view than going to a random forum and typing as if you never heard of putting breaks in a paragraph.

And if I understand India, to us its a country of different-believers, not nonbelievers. We can't really help you understand Hindu beliefs or Muslim beliefs. Just understand that they have beliefs in Vishnu or Allah that aren't all that different from your belief in God. (In fact, an avatar of Vishnu named Krishna has quite a number of similarities to Jesus.http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm)

Also, keep in mind that generally speaking, Hinduism is a fairly tolerant religion. The history of violence between that religion and Islam and Christianity is due primarily from the latter's evangelistic and less tolerant natures. So if you aren't going to India to spread your newfound religion, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you are going to India as a missionary, then I would suggest learning more about your faith so you can best defend it against the many arguments that people make against it.

Mog wrote

I'd like to think that there are better ways to understand an atheist point of view than going to a random forum and typing as if you never heard of putting breaks in a paragraph.

And if I understand India, to us its a country of different-believers, not nonbelievers. We can't really help you understand Hindu beliefs or Muslim beliefs. Just understand that they have beliefs in Vishnu or Allah that aren't all that different from your belief in God. (In fact, an avatar of Vishnu named Krishna has quite a number of similarities to Jesus.http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm)

Also, keep in mind that generally speaking, Hinduism is a fairly tolerant religion. The history of violence between that religion and Islam and Christianity is due primarily from the latter's evangelistic and less tolerant natures. So if you aren't going to India to spread your newfound religion, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you are going to India as a missionary, then I would suggest learning more about your faith so you can best defend it against the many arguments that people make against it.

Sorry about the bad typing. Yeah I cant keep quiet about what God has done for me so ,ok, call me a missionary. Thought I would find some genuine problems with christianity mentioned in the forum .(something to research) Thanks for the advice

[Philboid Studge]

Christandy wrote

No there is nothing anyone could say to make give up the truest love I have ever known. Hearing the arguments from both sides provokes me to seek more answers from God .This process strengthens my belief and gives me something to meditate on.

So you cannot admit even the possibility that you could be wrong about Jesus/God? Not very humble of you. Why then, should we waste our time "challenging" you?

But for the accident of your birth, you glommed onto Christianity to save you from yourself. Had you been born in say, India, perhaps you'd now be here testifying to the awesomeness of Vishnu, looking for pseudo "challenges" to a blue many-limbed deity.

I suggest you try the dodgy vindaloo* when you get over there; it will ensure that at least some of your shit comes flying out the right orifice.



*Fun fact: Vindaloo was introduced to India by Portuguese missionaries, who apparently couldn't resist stirring the shit in everything they touched.