Hd 209458

[Smellyoldgit]

Is it possible to set up a perma-link for the little twat ?

He'll like it here - http://www.thepoorman.net/2005/11/23...nut-continuum/

I love it! Looks like the old Choobus chart.......cues music.....

I can't say much for that little troll xans' wankery, but he's quite up there in the wingnuttery. He should get out more, I guess.

[Sternwallow]

Xans wrote

You would think since the universe formed/evolved, planets with a crap load of hydrogen and oxygen in em would have water... silly me. Or maybe not...

Hydrogen and oxygen dissociate in water to their individual molecules at high temperatures as you can demonstrate for yourself in an appropriate experiment or you can look it up or both. I saw nothing in the news item that suggested either hydrogen or oxygen being present. So the lack of water, with or without hydrogen and oxygen being present is not remarkable.

You know, of course, that the universe is evolving (changing) right now and the evidence is that it has been changing for 13+ Billion Years. We can observe even stars being born contrary to the notion that creation was complete shortly after it began. The changes we can observe show no sign of being intelligently or otherwise directed. There is no evident goal for the universe, especially no interest on the part of the universe in the welfare of one species out of thousands on one planet of hundreds in an obscure region of one of hundreds of billions of galaxies. Even where there is some regularity in the universe, there is no apparent design, intelligence or direction. And none is needed.

Just a side recommendation: say change when you mean change and evolution when you mean biological change over time. Non-theists almost universally assume that "evolution" means biological evolution.

Xans wrote

"This" has less to do with creationism and more to do with Cosmo-evolutionist predictions being wrong.

Scientific predictions are often wrong, and theories need to be adapted to account for new data. That's how science works.

What was the creationist prediction on the matter, by the way?

Xans wrote

And yes water "may" be hiding at HD 209458 but so could the Easter bunny.

Or maybe even God. ;)

But at least we know that water even exists in our Universe, and that it seems to be fairly common, which brings us to your next statement......

Xans wrote

You would think since the universe formed/evolved, planets with a crap load of hydrogen and oxygen in em would have water... silly me. Or maybe not...

It would be a reasonable (but not necessary) prediction. But since silicate dust actually was detected on HD 209458b, and since silicate dust is opaque, it is also reasonable to postulate that water actually is present on the planet, but is being obscured by the dust layer. So here we have (at least) two hypotheses as to what's actually going on: one is that the water is present but hidden, the other is that water is not present and the hydrogen and oxygen observed are parts of different molecules. These will serve as a stepping-point for further experiments which will confirm or reject one or the other hypotheses (or possibly both). Again, that's just how science works.

Sternwallow wrote

Hydrogen and oxygen dissociate in water to their individual molecules at high temperatures as you can demonstrate for yourself in an appropriate experiment or you can look it up or both. I saw nothing in the news item that suggested either hydrogen or oxygen being present. So the lack of water, with or without hydrogen and oxygen being present is not remarkable.

Hydrogen and oxygen were observed earlier on HD 209458b, which is what led to the prediction of water in the first place:

Press release suggesting the presence of hydrogen.
Press release suggesting the presence of oxygen (and carbon).

[Philboid Studge]

Is Xanny going to post something every time Scientismo-Evolutionists get something "wrong"? And if not wrong, per se, but when a Cosmo-Dawininianist prediction isn't fully borne out in every detail, are we going to get a Xanny post to inform us of this failing?

Where will this end? If Xanny has a shread of intellectual integrity, eventually she will learn something about the way science works. Here's a prediction: I doubt it.

[Sternwallow]

Evil_Mage_Ra wrote

Hydrogen and oxygen were observed earlier on HD 209458b, which is what led to the prediction of water in the first place:

Press release suggesting the presence of hydrogen.
Press release suggesting the presence of oxygen (and carbon).

Got it, thanks.:)

Sternwallow wrote

Got it, thanks.:)

No problem. I thought I should mention something before Xans did. :cheers:

[Xans]

Sternwallow wrote

Hydrogen and oxygen dissociate in water to their individual molecules at high temperatures as you can demonstrate for yourself in an appropriate experiment or you can look it up or both. I saw nothing in the news item that suggested either hydrogen or oxygen being present. So the lack of water, with or without hydrogen and oxygen being present is not remarkable.

The two suns the planets orbit closely have hydrogen and oxygen, the stable building blocks of water.

"We had expected this tremendous signature of water and it wasn't there," said Carl Grillmair of the California Institute of Technology and Spitzer Science Center.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...5207-3612r.htm

Just a side recommendation: say change when you mean change and evolution when you mean biological change over time. Non-theists almost universally assume that "evolution" means biological evolution.

Don't assume so much, problem solved. Atheists don't have a monopoly on terms. Trust me, if atheists still thought the universe was static, I wouldn't call them evolutionists.

[Xans]

Evil_Mage_Ra wrote

What was the creationist prediction on the matter, by the way?

That the universe didn't form/evolve over billions of years and that any attempt to explain the universe in such a way will lead to stumbling block after stumbling block the more we learn. Bring on the new discoveries, creationists welcome it. Let's take a better look at HD.

[Xans]

Philboid Studge wrote

Is Xanny going to post something every time Scientismo-Evolutionists get something "wrong"?

Yes?

Xans wrote

That the universe didn't form/evolve over billions of years and that any attempt to explain the universe in such a way will lead to stumbling block after stumbling block the more we learn. Bring on the new discoveries, creationists welcome it. Let's take a better look at HD.

Stop it, you're killing me!
You creationists couldn't get a clue during clue mating season in a field of clues if you smeared your body in musk and did the clue mating dance.

When your pathetic sky-daddy was handing out brains , you must have outside picking your nose.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Xans wrote

Call them what you wish, I call them Cosmo-evolutionists because --

Because you want to shoehorn them into your own misconception of an idea. Very well.

You are now a Christo-evolutionist.

Xans wrote

That the universe didn't form/evolve over billions of years and that any attempt to explain the universe in such a way will lead to stumbling block after stumbling block the more we learn. Bring on the new discoveries, creationists welcome it. Let's take a better look at HD.

Except this discovery isn't really a stumbling block at all. If there's a layer of dust obscuring the signal, then we can neither confirm nor deny directly the presence or absence of water on HD 209458b, though it may be possible do do it indirectly in a future experiment. As far as direct observation of water is concerned, HD 209458b is literally a black box.

[DrunkMonkey]

Xans wrote

Don't assume so much, problem solved. Atheists don't have a monopoly on terms. Trust me, if atheists still thought the universe was static, I wouldn't call them evolutionists.

Well, in that case Creationists don't have a monopoly on terms. I hereby proclaim that all creationists will now be called "convicted serial rapists" and thus according to the law, they should all be sent to jail immediately. In addition, "creationism" will now be known as "pigs flying".

Xans, you believe that pigs fly? Are you retarded? The cops should be to your house in no time seeing as you are a convicted serial rapist.

[Hertzyscowicz]

Xans, you might be interested in the other side of the coin; Here is a list of refutations to Creationist claims. Now muster what little intellectual honesty you have left and read through the list.