Do Atheists Ever Hope?

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

Does it ever occur to you that this "cause" you're so desperate for is "unknown?" Why do you insist that you must know what you don't?

Would you loose all control if you had to acknowledge that? Would you, in fact, be compelled to go on a wanton murdering spree, raping and pillaging along the way if you allowed uncertainty to intrude upon your scared existence?

Its not a case that 'I need' a Creator to exist for my life to have meaning...its a case that a Creator IS needed for what we have and that 'Nothing' as a cause is the most rediculous excuse ever dreamed up . Nothing didnt give us over 150 extremely narrow scientifically confirmed Life Enabling Constants all working in unison, nor did Nothing give us the specific instructions in the DNA Molecule which is a blueprint for building cells and body parts. Whenever you have many needed parameters to accomplish a singular purpose (ie: humans living on Earth) ... no one in their right Mind concludes that Nothing was the cause. A personal Cosmos which has displays of intelligence ALWAYS infers a Person with a Mind behind it. And that you simply cannot get around.....even if you dont want it to be so. And this is why atheism requires a Person be completely irrational thru actually thinking the utterly impossible is credible . It requires willful self deciet , suppression of the knowledge to a personal theistic Creator/Designer/Sustainer for our Cosmos , and pretending living and talking anyway one feels like is completely acceptable .. when all the while the Person knows differently.

If you can show me how Nothing produced the things i mentioned above in addition to Mind, Conscience, and Personality coming from raw materials and chances ... from nothing and by nothing, then atheism would be credible and should be believed in. I for one, would leave creationism and go back to being an atheist including the lifestyle that accompanys it. Can you then ?

[Irreligious]

I'm not trying to prove you that "nothing" gave rise to existence, only that you don't know what did. And you don't. Nobody does.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

I'm not trying to prove you that "nothing" gave rise to existence, only that you don't know what did. And you don't. Nobody does.

Mind, conscience, and personality only comes from another with the same attributes .... and 150 Life Enabling Constants and very precise Physics and Mathematics coming into being when they didnt have to , only comes from a Will . What does this sound like to you ?

Is the answer 'We cant possibly know' ...or is it a case that we dont want to admit to ourselves the most obvious of all possible things due to the personal implications it would place on us ?

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

Mind, conscience, and personality only comes from another with the same attributes .... and 150 Life Enabling Constants and very precise Physics and Mathematics coming into being when they didnt have to , only comes from a Will . What does this sound like to you ?

It sounds like bullshit, because humans with minds, consciences and personalities don't actually fashion or create other human beings. Like all other mammals, we merely reproduce. Any fertile fool with assistance from a human partner of the opposite sex can reproduce another like individual with a mind, conscience and personality. But we have yet to discover the alleged genius who could create a live being with those attributes from mud or pixie dust.

Ex Atheist wrote

Is the answer 'We cant possibly know' ...or is it a case that we dont want to admit to ourselves the most obvious of all possible things due to the personal implications it would place on us ?

The answer is we don't know, but we can fantasize that we do. Or not. I choose the latter.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

It sounds like bullshit, because humans with minds, consciences and personalities don't actually fashion or create other human beings. Like all other mammals, we merely reproduce. Any fertile fool with assistance from a human partner of the opposite sex can reproduce another like individual with a mind, conscience and personality. But we have yet to discover the alleged genius who could create a live being with those attributes from mud or pixie dust.


The answer is we don't know, but we can fantasize that we do. Or not. I choose the latter.

You completely missed it. How did the FIRST human being get Mind, Conscience, and Personality ? If you use the excuse of 'it just evolved' , then by what evolutionary process or entity did it evolve and how does a Mind, a Conscience, and Personality partially form ? Since atheism as a worldview touts materialism ... how did the three come about from materials if they didnt come from a personal Creator ? Please dont say 'you dont know'...because youre the one who chose atheism because its reasonable and rational...so tell us . Along the same lines, please tell us how atheism as a worldview makes good rational sense for specified information being present in the DNA molecule -- how did this needed/purposed information with instructions come about via atheistic means ?

[ILOVEJESUS]

Ex Atheist wrote

You completely missed it. How did the FIRST human being get Mind, Conscience, and Personality ? If you use the excuse of 'it just evolved' , then by what evolutionary process or entity did it evolve and how does a Mind, a Conscience, and Personality partially form ? Since atheism as a worldview touts materialism ... how did the three come about from materials if they didnt come from a personal Creator ? Please dont say 'you dont know'...because youre the one who chose atheism because its reasonable and rational...so tell us . Along the same lines, please tell us how atheism as a worldview makes good rational sense for specified information being present in the DNA molecule -- how did this needed/purposed information with instructions come about via atheistic means ?

Simple, those who had that attribute survived and passed it on to their offsring, no gods required.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

You completely missed it. How did the FIRST human being get Mind, Conscience, and Personality ?

I don't know, and neither do you. Nobody does.

Ex Atheist wrote

If you use the excuse of 'it just evolved' , then by what evolutionary process or entity did it evolve and how does a Mind, a Conscience, and Personality partially form ?

I've not used this "excuse," despite your repeated attempts to impose it on me. I'm not a scientist. And, I take it, neither are you. Hence, neither of us has attempted to conduct an actual investigation into that question. But one of us is speculating wildly, and it ain't me.

I've conceded many times already that I do not know what I cannot know. I've also steadfastly defended my position that I am in no way compelled to accept the wild and unfounded speculations of those who are as ignorant as I am on the question.

Ex Atheist wrote

Since atheism as a worldview touts materialism ... how did the three come about from materials if they didnt come from a personal Creator ?

I don't know and neither do you. And once again, atheism is not a worldview nor does it actively tout anything. It's just a lack of credulity and faith in the wares that you are peddling here.

Ex Atheist wrote

Please dont say 'you dont know'...because youre the one who chose atheism because its reasonable and rational...so tell us

When I don't know how something came to be, I don't pretend that I do. Nor do I blindly accept from others wild claims for such without corresponding evidence.

Ex Atheist wrote

Along the same lines, please tell us how atheism as a worldview makes good rational sense for specified information being present in the DNA molecule -- how did this needed/purposed information with instructions come about via atheistic means ?

Atheism is neither a worldview, a religion, a lifestyle, nor a field of scientific inquiry. Quite simply, it is mere incredulity at your wild claims that lack corresponding evidence to support them.

I keep telling you that I don't have the answers you so desperately crave. They are, as of yet, unknown. But that is not satisfactory for you. You must know, even if you can't. You are compelled to fill in the gaps of human knowledge with the fanciful, faith-filled speculation that your religion teaches you. I am not so inclined. Instead, I accept that there are some things we do not know and may never know.

[ILOVEJESUS]

Ex Atheist wrote

The anthropic principle has stood the test of time and does so even today with quantum mechanics. In quantum mechanics, you still need a cause for the energy field that surrounds the particles from appearing and disappearing on the wave .. and the fact that a person cant determine where the particle exactly is at any given time, doesnt mean that its coming into existence from nothing by nothing for no good reason. Everything that comes into being, needs a cause and this law of Physics has never ever been controverted. And never will. Even a quantum flucuation requires a cause . So does a black hole as well as a vaccuum.

Give God a chance with your life, and stop the charade this year . God is the only thing that makes sense. Atheism is a dying excuse.

So what was gods cause?

[ILOVEJESUS]

He likes to think that particles behaving randomly is a signature of god lol. As for causes, well multiverses? Who knows. Trouble is we don't make up a being and say he did it. Why is god eternal and universes cannot be? Where has god gone? Is he bored?

[ghoulslime]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

So what was gods cause?

Hmmm...I wonder why nobody ever asked him that. Oh, that's right, we did - over and over and over again!

[ghoulslime]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

He likes to think that particles behaving randomly is a signature of god lol. As for causes, well multiverses? Who knows. Trouble is we don't make up a being and say he did it. Why is god eternal and universes cannot be? Where has god gone? Is he bored?

God is off jacking off to Virgin Mary porn.

[Kate]

[Egor]

doG wrote

But you're took quick to dismiss any atheist as an animal. You're ready to ignore anything outside your world and label us evil animals. And that's what you're going to get...

I was right then, wasn't I?

I hope you know that when you die, no one with common sense, a brain, or the capacity to think for themselves is going to fucking care. You're going to disappear like a fart in the wind. Your existence would be mediocore at best. And long after you become nothing more than worm food, know that you did nothing to impact the world other than make insignifiCUNT posts on an atheists forum.

Look how degraded your character has become. It's like you're out of your mind. I've never even met you. You don't even know me. I've never said any personal insult to you. I've only talked about atheism and atheists in general. But look at you. Look what atheism has allowed you to become. Don't ever try to tell me atheists are moral. No way.

[Egor]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

He likes to think that particles behaving randomly is a signature of god lol. As for causes, well multiverses? Who knows. Trouble is we don't make up a being and say he did it. Why is god eternal and universes cannot be? Where has god gone? Is he bored?

When was God made up by man? You say man made up the idea of God, so when did that happen? Did Moses make him up? Did Jesus make him up? Where did the idea come from and why has it persisted even though man has been thoroughly dedicated to scientific and mathematical advancement now for hundreds of years?

You know, it seems as if as soon as man could speak he spoke about God, in one form or another, one revelation or another.

So, you said--you said--man made up God. I'm assuming then you know when that happened.

[Irreligious]

Egor wrote

When was God made up by man? You say man made up the idea of God, so when did that happen? Did Moses make him up? Did Jesus make him up? Where did the idea come from and why has it persisted even though man has been thoroughly dedicated to scientific and mathematical advancement now for hundreds of years?

You know, it seems as if as soon as man could speak he spoke about God, in one form or another, one revelation or another.

So, you said--you said--man made up God. I'm assuming then you know when that happened.

The hundreds of gods that have been referenced and worshipped throughout human history were most assuredly inventions that sprang from the human imagination. We certainly don't have any evidence that other animals have taken any notice of them.

You're pobably aware that many of the earliest cultures were not monotheistic but polytheistic, and the members of their tribes made up and believed in the existence of many unseen gods. Humans have been making up gods for eons.

Your god, like many of theirs (some worshipped actual live humans, other animals and inanimate articles as gods), is invisible, intangible and, conceptiually, is conveyed from one human being to another. No one has ever actually seen nor heard from your god. The allegedly male thing you are talking about-- that, presumably, doesn't even possess male genitalia-- is, undoubtedly, a human invention or, perhaps, more accurately, an embellishment on earlier invented gods.

Why do we invent gods? Apparently, it's a human coping mechanism, which was probably vital at a time when humanity had a much poorer grasp of how nature actually functions.