Proof of God

[dogpet]

2. Arphaxad was the father of Salah. Gen.11:12.
   Arphaxad was the grandfather of Salah. Lk.3:35,36
3. Jebus fucked his mother, so what..
   

[Alexa]

Ask your preacher to cure world hunger, then I might be impressed. Or an entire hospital full of people. Something not so mundane that any petty trickster can do it.

[Sinfidel]

Alexa wrote

Ask your preacher to cure world hunger, then I might be impressed. Or an entire hospital full of people. Something not so mundane that any petty trickster can do it.

Every Christmas, the Pope prays for world peace. Sure has gotten results, eh!

[Alexa]

The defense of course is that the people simply didn't believe enough. Or it's not God's Will. Which basically means prayer is basically telling God his plan sucks, and asking him to change it. If he does it was his plan all along, and you did absolutely nothing. If he does, and it wasn't his plan until you asked for it and he changed it for you, it means his original plan was awful and you're saying he isn't perfect.

[ghoulslime]

Barney wrote

So Red.

The Hindu Gods. All poly-armed and mighty of Trunk. Are they imaginary silly childish pagan idols with no power. If so, how come that miracles happen each day that their beleivers pray to them. Sometimes they will help them find their keys and on the odd occassion, they will cure cancer or another terminal disease.

Is Yaweh as powerful as them? Is he better? Is he Real? How do their miracles work?

I know the answer to this, but I would like you to think about it for a bit. Lets see if that mind of yours has completley seized up aged 22 from its steady diet of high-repertition-low freedom of personal thought, diet that ol' Dad has stuffed into you since birth.

Everybody knows that Yahweh finished at the bottom of his class at God University. He was too busy offering his bottom as the bottom at Kappa Sigma Cocka weekend bangs. Bummer!

[CuddlePhysh]

Redbeard, I dunno if you're asking with sincerity or not but if so you're wasting your time. I've lurked in various forums, both Christian/deist and Atheist/non-deist alike for a VERY looong time searching for any semblance of a community that would/could take a serious logical, inquisitive, meaningful & honest respectful approach to both sides, or either side (or ANY side for that matter) of evidence and you'll find none anywhere from what I can see. People on both sides are determined to remain dogmatic, ignoring argumentative circularity, answering any & all serious inquiries about valid reasons for belief either way with complete ridicule and disdain for the opposite view from what I've found. Deists just want you to eat the shit they roll in pretty little balls and Atheists just want you to join them pointing & laughing at those little balls of shit... nobody seems to care that we still have stuff other than shit laying around we havn't figured out yet that warrants investigating.

From my viewpoint the possibility, perhaps even probability, of a creator has nothing to do with an option of worshiping one or not... they're two totally separate issues and have nothing to do with one another, IF anything like it exists. But apparently there are no novel thinkers that are able separate the concept of an actual 'creator of the universe' from the realm of spirituality &/or church long enough to even broach the subject from any angle, let alone wander far enough away from the standard response, "You believe what might be possible?!? What a moron for even questioning something other than what I already believe!" to actually consider some facts that beg some investigation in my humble opinion. But alas, none seem to have the time or fortitude to throw some serious science in a pot & stir it up to see what rises to the top & I grow weary of bullies on the playground anymore. So I continue to lurk here & there hoping for a lamp at the window of knowledge from someone out there that might show a glimmer of inquisitiveness towards things yet unknown without making a huge joke out of it.

It seems the adage, "There is no such thing as a stupid question." died with the influx of children below the age of puberty having rights without responsibilities in this country... just my observation.

[Kinich Ahau]

I dunno, I think things are different in this country.

[CuddlePhysh]

What country to you live in if you don t mind me asking?

[AtomJack]

CuddlePhysh, it looks like redbeardjon hasn't posted in over 2 years. Maybe he found a forum like you refer to elsewhere.

[Sinfidel]

CuddlePhysh wrote

. But alas, none seem to have the time or fortitude to throw some serious science in a pot & stir it up to see what rises to the top

What "serious science" would that be?

[Kinich Ahau]

CuddlePhysh wrote

What country to you live in if you don t mind me asking?

This country. South Geocentric Land.

[CuddlePhysh]

AtomJack wrote

CuddlePhysh, it looks like redbeardjon hasn't posted in over 2 years. Maybe he found a forum like you refer to elsewhere.

I failed to look at the posting date before responding, pardon my oversight... I'm weary.

Dunno if that's a subtle suggestion I take myself & views "elsewhere" or not. If not I'll apologize & try to get over my apparent thin skin. I've been on a search in the forum trenches much too long for my liking & it's becoming tedious.

However, if it is, I wouldn't be surprised. It would be an example of the kind of approach towards willingness to expand ones horizons I was referring to earlier... none (& one of the very reasons I normally just lurk). The whole, "I'm comfortable with what I believe with no desire to change or even question it in spite of what's out there, so feel free to go away. You bother me." philosophy is all too common among humans. No offense taken & I'm not here to rain on anyone's 'personal belief' parade. I'm just seeking someone honest enough with themselves & interested enough to help tackle some difficult questions & philosophies in the light of real facts/truth instead of using standard dogma to remain comfortably complacent.

I probably should've just remained quiet...

[AtomJack]

Not saying you should go elsewhere, just that he won't be responding. I also think that the divide between theist and atheist isn't one to be penetrated easily, and for basically the same reasons you have cited. I don't discuss much with theists, as their arguments are seldom of a rational nature. So many theists stumble into an atheist forum thinking that they are going to save some atheists, or that they have THE ANSWER to their disbelief. Said answer turns out to hinge on faith, or in some cases on some shameful argumentation techniques. As an atheist who reasoned his own way out of religious programming, I have no truck with faith and beating dead horses in the form of a fresh-faced theist bent on saving people. I'm open to some evidence for whatever it is that is a god, but I haven't seen any real evidence, so far. The claim for existence has to be proved by the claimant, and I have yet to see real proof. Jesuitical argumentation doesn't work either.

[CuddlePhysh]

Sinfidel wrote

What "serious science" would that be?

Great question, while I won't get into the complex material here, unless you have the inclination to explore & consider some quantum physics, entanglement (what Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance"), statistical probability, subatomic wave/particle action & the basic true nature of spacetime, matter and the very essence of what we perceive to be reality it probably wouldn't be of any interest.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I have no desire to waste anyone's time & effort blathering on about stuff most people aren't going to care about, make an effort to understand &/or will just make fun of anyway. In fact, I've found it's more difficult to just get past the human inclination to stick to what one already believes & how one views basic values, than most people are willing or able to get involved in.

For example, just simply letting go of something as the common statement, "I don't believe ____ because there's no proof." is mostly bullshit. We go through our lives daily acting on & doing things that have either no proof at all it's wise to do, or even in spite of proof what we're doing is dangerous, even life threatening, but we still do it (smoking or using carcinogenic products, driving automobiles period let alone recklessly, walking in dangerous neighborhoods at night, the list goes on...). We'll even agree something's not the best thing to do in the face of the odds but dive right in anyway in many cases. It's because we're creatures of probability, not proof. But out of pride, anger, envy, whatever the reason, we get hung up on falsehoods of our own nature, incorporating those falsehoods into our value system. Before you know it we believe things are true that aren't even probable, or at least say we do.

I'm not commenting on whether we necessarily should or shouldn't do those things, or that it's wrong or we don't have the right to. It's essentially human to act so & that's fine. But not acknowledging it for what it is says something about us, It forms habits of how we teach ourselves to learn and approach facts. We should, at minimum, be willing to see this kind of thing for what it is so we can get to the root of honesty with ourselves & each other. Form habits of that honest approach so it ceases to remain an obstacle when it comes to learning & valuing the important things & make better, more reliable decisions in our lives. That's all aside from pulling this "I need proof to believe!" crap our of our ass when it's convenient & using it to ridicule some poor sap for being as confused as we are, we just look as foolish as he does & nobody helps anyone learn squat... we stagnate as individuals and a race when it comes to some things that just might be important.

Well there I go blathering... oops, lol

Sorry, I'll shut up & go back to the lurkers attic. Feel free to poke fun now...

[CuddlePhysh]

Kinich Ahau wrote

This country. South Geocentric Land.

Never heard of it... nvm