Old 02-12-2011, 10:22 PM   #46
lostsheep
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I don't fear death, but I'd rather not die, until I'm good and ready. There are so many people I like being with, so many things I like doing, that I enjoy waking up every day.

If I ever get to the point where I don't enjoy life anymore, yeah, bring it on.

I think many people don't enjoy their lives, but they fear death more than they hate their lives. "Old man river....tired of livin' but scared of dyin'..."

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Old 02-12-2011, 11:01 PM   #47
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This kind of thinking keeps me up at night sometimes.
Sorry. To me it is no more a problem than the terminating period at the end of this sentence

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:33 AM   #48
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As with most I don't worry about death, only how i die. Also I sadden at the thought of never being with loved ones again. More important to cherish the time you do have is it not??
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:18 AM   #49
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As with most I don't worry about death, only how i die. Also I sadden at the thought of never being with loved ones again. More important to cherish the time you do have is it not??
That, my friend, is the wonderful value of controlled denial. If you are in a terminal situation and you can postpone your grief, disappointment, regret and sadness until after the fact, it magically and effortlessly never happens.

It is natural to regret the projects that you will not get to complete, but, with a dose of denial, that regret can, itself, remain incomplete until you go, at which time "all debts are paid".

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:51 PM   #50
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To me it is no more a problem than the terminating period at the end of this sentence
Walt Whitman would be proud

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:21 PM   #51
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That, my friend, is the wonderful value of controlled denial. If you are in a terminal situation and you can postpone your grief, disappointment, regret and sadness until after the fact, it magically and effortlessly never happens.

It is natural to regret the projects that you will not get to complete, but, with a dose of denial, that regret can, itself, remain incomplete until you go, at which time "all debts are paid".
So wouldn't you agree that in this sense, belief in a fairly tale afterlife is a great placebo? I think that in many instances, this is what people do, that is, they may not really believe in an afterlife, but they convince themselves, on some level, that they do, in order to avoid uncomfortable thoughts about death. I hope my last thoughts are nice, happy ones, and if I am hallucinating in some happy fairy land state, that would be a good send off, I think, anyhoo.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:32 PM   #52
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So wouldn't you agree that in this sense, belief in a fairly tale afterlife is a great placebo? I think that in many instances, this is what people do, that is, they may not really believe in an afterlife, but they convince themselves, on some level, that they do, in order to avoid uncomfortable thoughts about death. I hope my last thoughts are nice, happy ones, and if I am hallucinating in some happy fairy land state, that would be a good send off, I think, anyhoo.
Sounds OK to me but my deliberate denial method presumes and hopes for lucidity and rationality right up to the end.

You are right, that being in a fantasy state could make the transition more comfortable by masking those negative feelings of regret and so-forth. The drawback I see is that it also applies when not in a terminal condition and would amount to an addiction, especially if it were done with drugs.

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Old 02-15-2011, 08:44 PM   #53
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Sounds OK to me but my deliberate denial method presumes and hopes for lucidity and rationality right up to the end.

You are right, that being in a fantasy state could make the transition more comfortable by masking those negative feelings of regret and so-forth. The drawback I see is that it also applies when not in a terminal condition and would amount to an addiction, especially if it were done with drugs.
I don't understand the deliberate denial method. I was thinking more about the movie with Ricky Gervais ("The Invention of Lying") where he tells his mum that she is going to a happy fairly land, and would not really be dying. Since his mum believes him, she dies blissfully, not in a terrified depressed state.

Plus, when you are dying, how could your brain possibly be in a rationale state at the end? Your brain will become oxygen deprived b/f you die, and so you will almost assuredly hallucinate, unless you lose consciousness suddenly, as when you hit your head on something, and then never regain consciousness.

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Old 02-16-2011, 12:37 AM   #54
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I don't understand the deliberate denial method. I was thinking more about the movie with Ricky Gervais ("The Invention of Lying") where he tells his mum that she is going to a happy fairly land, and would not really be dying. Since his mum believes him, she dies blissfully, not in a terrified depressed state.
OK, here is how I have seen it work. The person, call him Al, has a medical problem and undergoes testing. The diagnosis is Cancer, incurable and terminal on average about nine months following the diagnosis. Al, deathly afraid of Cancer, naturally enters a state of denial, the inability to believe that the diagnosis is true. Typically this condition goes through several stages: fear, anger, bargaining, acceptance, depression etc. All of these are emotionally debilitating and prevent a rational useful response.

Al, however, knowing that the diagnosis is really true, decides to permit the natural denial to take over thereby postponing all of the other negative emotional stages until after he dies, having missed them entirely. This way, he can do all of the things necessary to "get his affairs in order" and still have an almost cheerful remaining life.

It is not living in the fantasy, debilitating world of denial, but instead in the ordinary pragmatic world with deliberate denial keeping the fear, sadness and regret at bay until they no longer have any effect.

It is a healthy way to take advantage of what would otherwise turn a person into an emotional basket-case.
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Plus, when you are dying, how could your brain possibly be in a rationale state at the end? Your brain will become oxygen deprived b/f you die, and so you will almost assuredly hallucinate, unless you lose consciousness suddenly, as when you hit your head on something, and then never regain consciousness.
I expect that, given death from a disease, the final stage of life would be very short and might well be filled with apprehension and dread, even for an atheist. I think, at that time which is relatively short, the use of drugs, even highly addictive drugs, would be fine.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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