Of Course God Exists

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Well Done Egor! Congratz!

The Atheists cannot win at proving God does not exist!!

Your argument was air tight. Again, well done - it takes alot to get Hertz to concede.

And you know me sooo well don't you android.

You need to think about what you have written - but maybe that's beyond you.

You also need to think why I may have withdrawn from an argument that had barely begun.

You also need to understand how a forum works. The order that posts are displayed in may not necessarily represent the sequence that they were written in.

Just a few things for you to 'think' about although, obviously, in your case, I use the term 'think' in its widest possible sense.

Being the weird, illiterate twat that you are, I doubt that any of the above will make sense but do try, boy, do try.

[The Judge]

Egor wrote

This isn't something you can comprehend. You think the mind is material. You think it is generated by the brain. You are wrong. This can be shown.

I'm intrigued by your comment here Egor since in a previous post you claimed that what you claim is atheistic materialism / physicalism is unfalsifiable. Are you saying the what appear to perceive as dualism IS falsifiable / testable?

Egor wrote

I went to hell last night, in fact, during an astral travel. Kind of a cruise ship tour. Anytime you would like me to tell you about your future home, be sure to let me know.

If you are able to "astral travel", why did you go to "hell" of all places?

I've read the buybull so I'm familiar with all the usual stuff but do tell. I'm interested in the finer details.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Well Done Egor! Congratz!

The Atheists cannot win at proving God does not exist!!

Your argument was air tight. Again, well done - it takes alot to get Hertz to concede.

One day, android, you will win an argument but only against another dumb shit christard.

Now, android, go and read about the universe, or cosmos if you prefer. You will find that although large, it is finite and not infinite.

You also need a course in grammar.

Better still, get some education full stop.

Weird twat.

[Egor]

Smellyoldgit wrote

So I'm right - no sane person should pay any attention to your ramblings! - thanks for the confirmation.
Why should I give a shit what you were smoking? ...... or are you off your meds again?

No, I'm just saying you think you're mentally superior to religious people, but there are aspects of the mind you simply cannot use. All God and religion aside, you have to admit that people do have experiences you don't have. A lot of rational normal people in the world experience aspects of the mind you apparently don't experience.

You have never had a precognitive dream? Have you never had a lucid dream or out of body experience? Have you never experienced anything paranormal at all? Seriously?

hertz vanrental wrote

Egor

I've just read your above post.

I don't want a debate with you - no seriously.

I admit defeat.

You can have this one.

Egor 1 - Hertz 0

Please ignore me from now on because, sure as hell, I'm putting you on ignore.

Hertz. You can't hand me a win. I have never had an MI. I run/walk 5 days a week, bitch. Your PM to me, I am not responding to, as I did not respond to the one before that. I think you have major personality issues. So, stop PMing me. I wonder if there's a way to block your PMs without blocking you here in the forum. Maybe the mod can advise on that.

Do you really believe I care if you swear at me? Let me tell you something about me (my favorite subject). I've been doing this in a thousand forums since 1994.

Who do you think you are? You chickened out of a debate, so yes, I did win it. Or, if you can't control yourself and have to resort to foul swearing and insults instead of debate--I'm ecstatic, because that also means I've beaten you, that I've won it.

Do you actually think I get emotionally pissed off over things you say? On this end of this computer, with my coffee and bagel, do you really think I' get emotional over some computer text on my screen? You never finished high school, did you? I can tell.

Do you think Smelly actually gets upset, over there, in wherever he lives, that lesser country than the US, over the things I say? It's called shtick. I've been using it for 24 years now. As has he--but with less skill and success than I.

You probably do get "actually" upset over what you read, don't you? If you can't handle it, don't dish it out. If you're too fucked up in the head, then go some place where you can handle it.

Out of curiosity--are you this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZ3Hjz2dBI

Andrew66 wrote

Well Done Egor! Congratz!

The Atheists cannot win at proving God does not exist!!

Your argument was air tight. Again, well done - it takes alot to get Hertz to concede.

No, they can't debate. Their ability to argue philosophically ended with, ironically, the scientific discoveries of evolution and the big bang. Both were supposed to be major triumphs for atheism, but upon further reflection they both became arguments for a creator.

Since then, they have mostly just attacked religion (as if even Christians aren't vomiting over what they see in much of religion). Or, they've become left-wing globalists with fake morality they put on for show like "Atheists feeding the homeless" As if the homeless don't already know where all the church soup kitchens and shelters are.

They have nothing. They're completely defeated. Which is kind of sad, because I like to debate.

[Egor]

The Judge wrote

I'm intrigued by your comment here Egor since in a previous post you claimed that what you claim is atheistic materialism / physicalism is unfalsifiable. Are you saying the what appear to perceive as dualism IS falsifiable / testable?

Absolutely testable, but not undeniable...well, not undeniable to an atheist. Why? Because atheists can deny anything--that's what they're good at. But I can show you strong scientific evidence (experiments you could do yourself actually, if you were so inclined) that animals can have consciousness without any neurology whatsoever. Which means that it is pretty clear that consciousness does not require a brain to exist, which means that it is highly reasonable to assume the death of a brain does not cease the consciousness affecting that brain.

That said, these experiments do not prove the existence of God. An incorporeal consciousness is not proof of God. There is no proof of God, there is only evidence and probability, even in the astral realm of the universe, God is no more present than here. In fact, the notion of God is less pursued there than it is here. It is actually less important. So, my assumption is that if there is a higher level of existence beyond the astral existence, God would even be less relevant. Ultimately, I suppose, if one were to dissolve into or fold back into Substance itself, there would be no God, because Substance, logically can't have a god.

This is why atheists can't defeat me. I know what God is. I know what the monistic Substance is. Or at least I know the idea of it and some of the implications of it. And what I know is that when your consciousness gets fine tuned enough to perceive it, you realize that God exists and does not exist at the same time. To us, God exists, but God is all there is, thus God can't have a God, thus God does not exist. I am perfectly fine with that paradox. I fully understand it.

So, what about Jesus? Yes! Absolutely! But Jesus and the Trinity are about this world. What Jesus means, and what the Holy Spirit means in the astral realm is different. It's not the "earth" project there anymore. It is the Kingdom of heaven and hell, and maybe some space that is neither. But of that place, it is really not written about much in the Gospels. We get an idea of it through parables, but in the Kingdom of Heaven comes after Christianity is completed.

Substance has attributes. One of those attributes, I believe, is Mind. A modality of Mind is Consciousness. Consciousness is what we think of as God, and I'm pretty sure it's what Jesus meant by "The Father." A modality of Consciousness is the human mind (and there are other kinds of modal minds like animals, insects, maybe aliens, what have you). But we are that modality of Consciousness.

When we draw close to it, we feel a "oneness" with people and a decrease in our ego identity, and may even feel a oneness with the universe itself, because the physical universe is a creation of Consciousness.

We really can't understand Substance--no one does. In truth, the Divine Attribute of Mind is incomprehensible to us because it is so vast, and it transcends Consciousness. We are limited modalities. We will only ever know Consciousness. Even in eternity, Consciousness will be our God, we can never go beyond that. If we were to meld into Consciousness completely, we would not exist as an modal mind. If Consciousness were to meld into the attribute of Mind, then there would be no conscious awareness of the physical or astral universe, thus neither would exist. And if by some way, Substance could irradiate its attribute of Mind, then there would be nothing, or at least nothing that could be comprehended or expressed in any way, and of that state of being, we have no conception.

I guess I better cut and paste all this for my notes. Maybe I'll write another book some day.

If you are able to "astral travel", why did you go to "hell" of all places?

I've read the buybull so I'm familiar with all the usual stuff but do tell. I'm interested in the finer details.

Oh, I love hell. It's one thing to go to hell, it's another thing to be "in" hell. The beings who reside there (again not the ones "in" hell) are advanced and loving. I saw them as angels, but they were all black, but the black had reflections on it so I could see their form, but there was no real source of light. It is darkness, but you don't need light to see. Strange. But I was walking through a canyon toward what I assume is the Lake of Fire, and I met several of these angels, and one of them handed me a gift. It was a glowing emerald, and it was the size of his palm. I have seen emeralds before, and I do like them, but this one emanated its own dim light. Very beautiful. It's hard to express.

What I call the Lake of Fire was off in the distance, but it is huge. It takes up the horizon, and it is glowing orange/red, but it's down deep. It's like you can walk up to the edge (which I didn't do) and you would look down into it, like a volcano. It's beautiful and awesome. And then I realized, I kind of like Hell. I mean if I go there when I die, I could be very happy with those beings. Of course, I wouldn't want to be "in" the lake of fire, but Hell itself, is as magnificent of place as anywhere.

Perhaps someone will say it's because I'm really being ruled by Satan, but that's not it. Hell is not evil. Hell is just Hell. There is no evil in hell, that's all thrown into the Lake of Fire. I remember feeling like I would hate to be one of the souls abandoned to the Lake of Fire. It's full of souls, lost souls. But I don't know what it's like in the Lake of Fire.

The beings are dark but not evil. They were welcoming and I felt loved by them, like a "wanted guest." I mean, they gave me a gift. I actually miss them.

So, what about heaven? I don't know. Jesus said in his Father's kingdom there are many mansions. One for everyone who follows him. Maybe mine is going to be in this place. Maybe that's why I was shown, or maybe I was shown it to tell me that I'm not going to the Lake of Fire--which I had been worried about. Who knows? But I will say this, when I was a small child, I was extremely fascinated with fire. I loved it. I still do. I suppose lots of boys do. But I think if I were given some destiny, some astral job in what I have called Hell. I think I could be quite happy with that mansion.

Again, and I really hope you get me stressing this point: There is a difference between Hell and being "in" Hell. The Kingdom of Hell is an awesome and magnificent kingdom, created by God the same as any other. Being "in" the Lake of Fire is not what anyone wants.

So, that was my experience.

You know, maybe I need to watch my terminology. Perhaps I have my geography wrong. Maybe Hell is that Lake of Fire, and the rest is the Kingdom of God. I suppose I'm still quite ignorant about it at this point.

[Sinfidel]

Andrew66 wrote

The Atheists cannot win at proving God does not exist!!

You haven't done very well at proving you don't owe me ten thousand dollars!

[The Judge]

Egor wrote

But I can show you strong scientific evidence (experiments you could do yourself actually, if you were so inclined) that animals can have consciousness without any neurology whatsoever.

Egor I'm going to level with you.
I am a man of science and a medical doctor with a background in psychology and interest in consciousness research. This statement of yours above intrigues me. Please give me more details because on the surface it makes little sense. I'm genuinely interested in your responses.

I think it is pretty evident from reading back through your previous posts that you are as staunch a religionist as I am an atheist and so rather than focussing on the nuts and bolts of what is clearly a cast iron and very personal paradigm, I'd like to hear more about the more peripheral stuff so that we can discuss / debate that first.

I'd happily try my hand at debating you as that is what you desire but there appears to be a lot of esoteric stuff bolstering your very personal religion and so I feel we might stave off hitting a brick wall if we try and come to tackle the "big stuff" in time. I wonder if we might cut our teeth so to speak on the smaller stuff such as these studies into animal consciousness you mention for example because what you then infer from this has potentially profound and far-reaching consequences for other areas we may cover.

Egor wrote

That said, these experiments do not prove the existence of God...

It is encouraging that you draw a line here.

Egor wrote

An incorporeal consciousness is not proof of God. There is no proof of God, there is only evidence and probability, even in the astral realm of the universe, God is no more present than here. In fact, the notion of God is less pursued there than it is here. It is actually less important. So, my assumption is that if there is a higher level of existence beyond the astral existence, God would even be less relevant. Ultimately, I suppose, if one were to dissolve into or fold back into Substance itself, there would be no God, because Substance, logically can't have a god.

This is sounding quite esoteric now. I know you expound a little on some of the attributes of what you call "Substance but can you attempt a fuller definition for us, please? I appreciate this may be difficult.

Egor wrote

This is why atheists can't defeat me. I know what God is. I know what the monistic Substance is. Or at least I know the idea of it and some of the implications of it. And what I know is that when your consciousness gets fine tuned enough to perceive it, you realize that God exists and does not exist at the same time. To us, God exists, but God is all there is, thus God can't have a God, thus God does not exist. I am perfectly fine with that paradox. I fully understand it.

I admit I'm struggling to see how you resolve the paradox you describe here. Perhaps things might be clearer once I understand a bit more about what you mean by "Substance" though...?

Egor wrote

So, what about Jesus? Yes! Absolutely! But Jesus and the Trinity are about this world. What Jesus means, and what the Holy Spirit means in the astral realm is different. It's not the "earth" project there anymore. It is the Kingdom of heaven and hell, and maybe some space that is neither. But of that place, it is really not written about much in the Gospels. We get an idea of it through parables, but in the Kingdom of Heaven comes after Christianity is completed.

You state that as a self-styled "Veridican" the gospels are prime and all else biblical is ancillary. It seems quite a leap, therefore, to have come up with the notion of "astral planes" based your reading of it.

Thank you though for your detailed description of "hell." I must say that you're the first kind of christian I've come across who wouldn't mind going there when you die. Most intriguing.

Egor wrote

...Perhaps someone will say it's because I'm really being ruled by Satan, but that's not it.

How are you so sure? Indeed how would it be possible to know this at all?

[hertz vanrental]

Very big picnic, lots of popcorn and maybe some sippin' whiskey too.

This is either gonna end quickly or drag on and on and on.

There'll be tears before bedtime too, I'll wager.

[Andrew66]

The Judge wrote

Thank you though for your detailed description of "hell." I must say that you're the first kind of christian I've come across who wouldn't mind going there when you die. Most intriguing.

It seems that hell is kind of like a prison, where the Angels Egor is mentioning are the guards. Maybe when Egor passes into the spiritual realm God will make him into one of those Angels (a guard or sheriff).

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

It seems that hell is kind of like a prison, where the Angels Egor is mentioning are the guards. Maybe when Egor passes into the spiritual realm God will make him into one of those Angels (a guard or sheriff).

Possibly but, if he exists, why did he make you into such a weird twat do you think?

[Andrew66]

Egor, do you think Hertz has a demon?

He rambles obsessively, and is very sensitive and inflammatory.

JJ and I have been wondering whether it is a mental illness.. he may need help.

Hertz is also a fool.

I imagine him working at customer service at Hertz Van rental, well dressed and all polite and professional to the customers - but behind his screen he's on the Raving Atheist forum exhibiting his manic destructive thoughts. Kind of funny really.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Egor, do you think Hertz has a demon?

He rambles obsessively, and is very sensitive and inflammatory.

JJ and I have been wondering whether it is a mental illness.. he may need help.

Hertz is also a fool.

I imagine him working at customer service at Hertz Van rental, well dressed and all polite and professional to the customers - but behind his screen he's on the Raving Atheist forum exhibiting his manic destructive thoughts. Kind of funny really.

Says the wanker that hasn't clue 1 about grammar.

Weirdo twat.

[Andrew66]

Hertz you avoid the debate because there is some small sliver of rationality in you that knows you cannot win.

You cannot say that God does not Exist. The possibility is there. Hope is there.

And there is room for faith. There are good philosophical reasons to believe there could very well be a Higher Power.

You will deny this, but you can't refute the arguments.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Hertz you avoid the debate because there is some small sliver of rationality in you that knows you cannot win.

You cannot say that God does not Exist. The possibility is there. Hope is there.

And there is room for faith. There are good philosophical reasons to believe there could very well be a Higher Power.

You will deny this, but you can't refute the arguments.

I withdrew from the debate for several valid reasons.

Losing wasn't one of them. If it was, I wouldn't have handed the win to egor.

If you can't work out why I withdrew, that's your problem. Not mine.
I'll say no more on the subject.

Oh, and quit doing the weird shit.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

And there is room for faith. There are good philosophical reasons to believe there could very well be a Higher Power.

christards have faith but then, where does faith stop and reason begin?

christards have faith in the stupidity of the babble. It claims, amongst other things, that a ghost raped a woman who had a child and remained a virgin. Believing in this isn't having faith. It is having stupidity.

There are no good philosophical reasons to believe in a higher power. In fact, there is every reason to believe that one does not exist.

The universe looks like it didn't have a creator. If it did, he's a malicious cunt. There's a neutron star pointed right at us. When it goes off, and go off it will, eventually, within micro-seconds, all life on Earth will be toast. What kind of creator does that?

The universe isn't particularly welcoming to Mankind. Most of the universe is space (which is finite you thick twat). If you think otherwise, go into outer space without a space suite and see how long you last. If a creator created the universe, I would have expected him to have created a more welcoming place for us Humans, wouldn't you?

Hell, Earth isn't that welcoming to Mankind either what with hurricanes, Sunamis and volcanic eruptions and the like. In fact, two thirds of the planet which god created for us is covered in water which, without articial means, Man is unable to survive in.

Man definitely looks at though he evolved. Look at the fragility of DNA, for example. One mutation could do no harm, one mutation could produce a being with a biological advantage and a third mutation could give rise to cancer. Do you feel lucky, punk?

Any medically-trained person will confirm that Man isn't particularly well designed. If your god created Man, then your god is a twat of a designer. Next time you pray to the ass hole, tell him that from me.

To be crude, what kind of designer is it that puts a woman's pleasure beach next to the sewage works?

What kind of god is it that gives young children cancer?

There's many other points I could bring up but that will suffice.

There are some mechanisms, largely theoretical, which have been developed that are capable of creating an embryonic universe out of which, the universe that we observe, could have been created.

Indeed, FERMILAB have already observed particle pairs being created out of nothing. It is perfectly possible, not just theoretically so, to create something out of nothing.

Read Krausse or others on this subject.

It may threaten your comfie blankie - but what the hell. You gotta grow up sometime.

I don't expect you to have thought about any of this because you are an ill-educated piss pot with pretensions of mediocrity.

But then, if you don't read about the non-god possibilities, how do you know how likely it is that it was 'your god what dunnit'?

Stop doing the weird shit and get an education, dumb-ass.