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Old 03-27-2008, 04:50 AM   #1
VladTheImpaler
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The retardation of prayer…

I would like to know our theist’s views on the potential effects on prayer. In particular I’d like to argue in relation to the Christian God of the Bible whose characteristics are omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.

First my Christian friends, do you believe prayer has any effect on observable reality at all?

I already know there have been several studies on the effects on prayer and none as so far shown any positive affect what so ever. However, I’m going to ignore this data for now.

If you are a Christian and you answered Yes on my first question then I’d just like to take you through the following thought experiment.

If the God of the Bible is in fact omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent then how the hell does praying to this God make any fucking difference? Seriously? The act of prayer is even theoretically absolutely useless as the God in question already knows your prayer before you actually pray! Thus rendering the whole freaking prayer useless in the first place.

This omniscient God will long before you are born know what is going to happen in your life and what you would potentially want to pray about/wish for. It has already made up its mind long before you ever existed on whether or not to grant your prayer. Praying as an effort to communicate with an omniscient God is inherently fucking retarded and redundant. It already knows your wishes and desires!

Therefore the only effect prayer can potentially have is a positive placebo effect on the individual that is praying. Meaning it is an entirely selfish practice designed to make you feel better.

How do you justify your prayers to an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God?

Signed,
a frustrated Vlad
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:41 AM   #2
zer0
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When I was a kid, I'd pray out loud so my parents could hear what I wanted. I did the same for Santa Claus. I'd always make sure they "proofread" my letter before sending it. I guess I knew it was all a game, and I just played along.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:01 AM   #3
Isilmë
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i just wrote down a list of what i wanted and gave it to my parents
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:55 AM   #4
VladTheImpaler
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Lily, can you reply to this?

How do you justify your prayers to an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God?
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:58 AM   #5
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I remember asking Lily if she believed in demons. She said that she believed in the power of prayer, so yes, she believed in demons.

My response was "I believe in the power of shotguns, so clearly zombies are real."
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:39 AM   #6
Lily
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VladTheImpaler wrote View Post
Lily, can you reply to this?

How do you justify your prayers to an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God?
I don't need to justify them. Jesus himself prayed and taught his disciples to pray. That prayer is (or should be) the model for every prayer we offer.


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mmfwmc wrote View Post
I remember asking Lily if she believed in demons. She said that she believed in the power of prayer, so yes, she believed in demons.

My response was "I believe in the power of shotguns, so clearly zombies are real."
I doubt I said any such thing. It makes no sense. I think you have been hearing the voices again...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:46 AM   #7
VladTheImpaler
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So you have no answer in regards to my line of thought? That prayer is essentially useless and selfish as an omniscient God already knows what your desires/prayers are before you even realize them your self...

So my question to you is what is the actual purpose of prayer if not a selfish act to serve as a placebo effect?
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:49 AM   #8
Philboid Studge
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It never occurred to Jeebus that praying to an entity Who already knows what you think and want is a bit redundant.

Lily is content to be as thickheaded as Jewzus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
La propriété, c'est le vol ...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:51 AM   #9
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http://ravingatheists.com/forum/show...&postcount=247

You believe in exorcisms, because you believe in the power of prayer. I realise this is slightly different but, to be honest, it's just as stupid.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:04 AM   #10
Lily
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mmfwmc wrote View Post
http://ravingatheists.com/forum/show...&postcount=247

You believe in exorcisms, because you believe in the power of prayer. I realise this is slightly different but, to be honest, it's just as stupid.
Ah, but it is different and you were wrong, weren't you?
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:08 AM   #11
Lily
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VladTheImpaler wrote View Post
So you have no answer in regards to my line of thought? That prayer is essentially useless and selfish as an omniscient God already knows what your desires/prayers are before you even realize them your self...

So my question to you is what is the actual purpose of prayer if not a selfish act to serve as a placebo effect?
What line of thought? Can you possibly believe that no one has asked these questions before?

Since that is the case, you can guess that it has been answered many times. It has been discussed here in the forum many times. "Search" is your friend. Use it.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:14 AM   #12
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Ah, but it is different and you were wrong, weren't you?
True. I have no problem admitting fault. But I also study false memories, and it was an easy mistake to make. You talk about demons in the next paragraph of the original quote.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:24 AM   #13
VladTheImpaler
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Quote:
Lily wrote View Post
What line of thought? Can you possibly believe that no one has asked these questions before?

Since that is the case, you can guess that it has been answered many times. It has been discussed here in the forum many times. "Search" is your friend. Use it.
I'm lazy, can't you search for me and link me the thread where you have answered my question.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:27 AM   #14
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I don't need to justify them. Jesus himself prayed and taught his disciples to pray. That prayer is (or should be) the model for every prayer we offer.
but do you think that prayers are answered, or that they actually make any difference?
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:20 AM   #15
Lily
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VladTheImpaler wrote View Post
I'm lazy, can't you search for me and link me the thread where you have answered my question.
No. That is an unsound pedagogic strategy. You will learn more if you do the work yourself.

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Isilmë wrote View Post
but do you think that prayers are answered, or that they actually make any difference?
Yes. Of course.
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