What, exactly, is a supernatural?

[ghoulslime]

colpat wrote

Greetings;
Thanks - ghoulslime for giving me a second chance by reposting. No I do not beleive humans evolved from primitive life 4 million or even 4 billion years ago. Yes. Are you interested in my theory of how he did it?

Oh, let me guess, he did it with super god magic!

All of the evidence that the world body of science has amassed is just a devious ploy by Lucifer and the Pips.

[Kate]

If gawd made Adam and StEve out of dust, why is there still dust???

[Demigod79]

colpat wrote

No I do not beleive humans evolved from primitive life 4 million or even 4 billion years ago.

Yes. Are you interested in my theory of how he did it?

Here is a quote you might find interesting:

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?

Do you know who wrote this, and why I'm posting it here?

[ghoulslime]

Kate wrote

If gawd made Adam and StEve out of dust, why is there still dust???

Gawd needed something to grow bananas for the monkeys in...umhuh!

[ghoulslime]

colpat wrote

No I do not beleive humans evolved from primitive life 4 million or even 4 billion years ago.

Let's start with the age of the Earth, and work from there.

Here's a little puzzle for you, Galileo!

ghoulslime wrote

The speed of light, that is to say the speed at which light travels through a vacuum, is 299,792,458 meters per second, or approximately 186,282 miles per second. A light year is the distance that light travels in one Earth year.

Therefore, if Alpha Centauri is 4.37 Light years away from Earth, light which originates from a star in Alpha Centauri takes about 4.37 years to reach Earth.

Light which originates from a star in Andromeda Galaxy takes about 2.5 million years to reach Earth.

Light from the furthest observable stars in the universe takes about 13 billion years to reach Earth.

If your imaginary friend made the world a few thousand years ago, and put the pretty stars in the sky so that Christians would have light to see by at night, how did the light from the most distant stars reach Earth already? Let me guess, God's magic light travel's through the faith-time continuum, right?

*************************************

Ares is from Mars.

Jesus is from Uranus.

Quiz: How long does it take for light from a star which is 4 billion light years away from Earth to reach Earth?

[Whisper]

colpat wrote

Greetings Whisper;
What would you accept as proof of God?

In all seriousness? There's a few things.

The spontaneous regrowth of an entire human limb, after zero interference from evidence based medicine, and only prayer or 'laying on of hands'. Though this may show only that a human limb can regenerate, not that a god was involved. Or it may show that a human can 'heal' another human through 'laying on of hands' - and it doesn't show in any way shape or form a specific god, only possibly a god - and even then, how do we know it wasn't aliens, or an interdimensional being...

I think I just talked myself out of that one. Let's try again.

The declaration, at precisely the same time, to every single living human being on the planet, in the language they speak, exactly the same declaration, that 'I am God, I am here, I am this particular God, of this particular religion.'

To a creator God that is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-everything, that should be simple enough, and perfectly acceptable.

Unfortunately, I just realized, once again, that this 'God' could be an alien, or an interdimensional being - so, I would have to add to the 'declaration', a physical manifestation, with accompanying miracles that defy all known laws of science, that are perfectly documented and seen by every single living human on the planet at the same time.

And even then we come once more to the problem of an interdimensional being and perhaps even aliens again.

This whole 'prove god' thing is kind of ridiculous.

But - you asked, so I told. And really, these are not hard things to do for an all-powerful creator god. Seriously, this all-powerful creator god of yours is said to have created an entire universe and everything in it - so, performing these miracles should be child's play.

[ghoulslime]

Whisper wrote

In all seriousness? There's a few things.

The spontaneous regrowth of an entire human limb, after zero interference from evidence based medicine, and only prayer or 'laying on of hands'. Though this may show only that a human limb can regenerate, not that a god was involved. Or it may show that a human can 'heal' another human through 'laying on of hands' - and it doesn't show in any way shape or form a specific god, only possibly a god - and even then, how do we know it wasn't aliens, or an interdimensional being...

I think I just talked myself out of that one. Let's try again.

The declaration, at precisely the same time, to every single living human being on the planet, in the language they speak, exactly the same declaration, that 'I am God, I am here, I am this particular God, of this particular religion.'

To a creator God that is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-everything, that should be simple enough, and perfectly acceptable.

Unfortunately, I just realized, once again, that this 'God' could be an alien, or an interdimensional being - so, I would have to add to the 'declaration', a physical manifestation, with accompanying miracles that defy all known laws of science, that are perfectly documented and seen by every single living human on the planet at the same time.

And even then we come once more to the problem of an interdimensional being and perhaps even aliens again.

This whole 'prove god' thing is kind of ridiculous.

But - you asked, so I told. And really, these are not hard things to do for an all-powerful creator god. Seriously, this all-powerful creator god of yours is said to have created an entire universe and everything in it - so, performing these miracles should be child's play.

The next time Cowpat's god decides to ghost write a perfect book, he might consider actually getting some of the facts correct. Also, if he intends to teach us morality, he might want to set an example.

[colpat]

Greetings;
Demigod79 wrote:

Do you know who wrote this, and why I'm posting it here?

I don't know who wrote it. It appears to be a modern day paraphrase of Paul.
No, I don't know why you are posting it?

[Whisper]

ghoulslime wrote

The next time Cowpat's god decides to ghost write a perfect book, he might consider actually getting some of the facts correct. Also, if he intends to teach us morality, he might want to set an example.

Of course. And I didn't say that if it turned out to be real that I would like or worship this god. Just that I would accept it's existence.

[colpat]

Greeting Whisper

In all seriousness? There's a few things.

Those are good serious thoughts and I'll do my best to give a good serious response. My attempts at this same question to myself was something like this. God "What is the best logical, scientific evidence to prove you ARE?
His answer "My creation proves I Am."

[Whisper]

colpat wrote

Greeting Whisper
Those are good serious thoughts and I'll do my best to give a good serious response. My attempts at this same question to myself was something like this. God "What is the best logical, scientific evidence to prove you ARE?
His answer "My creation proves I Am."

I know it's just gone 3.10am here, and I should probably get myself to bed - but... I am confused. Is that your entire response? To cite 'creation' as your convincing evidence of god?

Because it's not convincing and even if it were, it's non-specific and could pertain to any number of creator-gods.

(If I don't respond to your response in a timely fashion, it'll be because I'm asleep.)

[Demigod79]

colpat wrote

I don't know who wrote it. It appears to be a modern day paraphrase of Paul.
No, I don't know why you are posting it?

That quote is from St. Augustine of Hippo, one of the greatest of the Christian philosophers/theologians. In it, he argued that Christians must be educated about secular matters when talking with non-believers. Basically, if you show yourself ignorant about things that non-believers know very well then why would they trust you when you talk about spiritual matters? You've stated that you do not believe humans evolved from simpler lifeforms and also that humans were created out of dirt by God. Such statements betray a fundamental ignorance on your part, which then taints your entire argument - basically, it prevents us from taking anything you say seriously. How seriously would you take someone who believes the moon is made out of cheese?

[Victus]

colpat wrote

God made the rules. Man disobeyed those rules. God judged Adam guilty and imposed the penalty of death (separation from God).

Yes, I get that part of your mythology.

colpat wrote

The purpose was not to modify behavior it was to enforce God's law.

If no change in behaviour was expected (and, indeed, none could be since God is omniscient), then the punishment for the crime is unjustifiable - changing behavior is the only justification for punishment. Claiming that it fulfills God's law is simply an appeal to (an imagined) authority.

colpat wrote

God is not irrational nor does God enjoy human suffering.

Then how do you explain punishing someone for something they can't control? I couldn't explain that while assuming rationality and non-sadism in a human, let alone a God.

colpat wrote

If he was or did he would not have made a way, the only way to regain eternal life.

He could have simply waived the (obviously inappropriate) punishment for Adam's disobedience, knowing it wouldn't effect the outcome anyways, but he went with massive human suffering instead. So, again, we have two options for theists...

1) God is insane.
2) God is evil.

Moreover, we have evidence of the punishment, but no comparable evidence of reward.

colpat wrote

To think otherwise is to believe the creature is wiser than the creator.

Or that there is no creator at all.

[Irreligious]

colpat wrote

He has given us his written word, a single voice with perfect consistency.

Hmm. A single voice interpreted roughly 38,000 different ways, at last count. That sounds to be far from consistent, let alone perfect.

[Irreligious]

colpat wrote

Greetings;
No I have never seen God naked. God's opinions are more than opinion they are truth. The original question "does God share my opinion." I can't answer for him. Perhaps you might ask him?

This is a disingenous answer, colpat. You know very well that we do not share your belief in this allegation you call God.

You are here claiming to speak on behalf of this alleged entity, because you insist that you are in spiritual contact with it. If this alleged thing can provide you with a diagnosis and a cure for a perfect stranger, why can't it also apprise you of the Earth's age?