Old 07-28-2011, 01:47 PM   #31
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Getting back on track here:

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My interest in an Raving Atheists forum, where the gloves come off, ol' phella's can spit and whittle and where a nice grown up discussion is encouraged is: for me to become a better teacher by learning the atheist language and be able to foster better understanding of an atheist world view.
What, do you contend, is the "atheist language?" And how do you propose to understand incredulity in the very thing that you place all of you faith?

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colpat wrote
Much of today's teaching is based on gross misinformation.
Teaching on what? Christian theology? When was the last time Christians were in 100% agreement?

I'm 20-something years younger than you, but I don't recall a time when there weren't Roman Catholic Christians, Greek and Eastern Orthodox Christians, and various Protestant Christians, not to mention Jehovah's Witness Christian, Mormon Christians, snake-handling Christians, Unitarian Christians, black Christians with an activist tradition who are heir to one set of Christian sensibilities, and politically conservative white Christians with another set of Christian sensibilites, and on and on and on.

I have been aware of this as the status quo for the bulk of my time on planet Earth. When was it ever different?

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colpat wrote
I welcome the opportunity to engage in a rational discussion of ideas and ideals.
Ostensibly, we all do. Though my experiene here tells me that theists and atheists seldom agree as to what is rational when it comes to a discussion on religion and irreligion.

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colpat wrote
I have rare, but valuable experience. I roomed with an atheist for 13 months as an Aviation Cadet in 1953.
I can beat that: I was raised in a Christian household for 18 years! I was married to a nominal Muslim for 10 years, and over 90 percent of the people I interact with on a daily basis subscribe to some kind of theological perspective as it pertains to unknowable matters.

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colpat wrote
The result was both strengthened our own world-view and a great friendship.
I love my Christian family and friends, though I avoid having deep discussions with them about their respective religions. Past experience has informed me that it does little to enhance interpersonal relationships.

But who knows? Maybe I'll learn something valuable from you about how that can be accomplished. Long ago, I discovered that one way to achieve that is to make sure it's one-way conversation with minimal input on my end. It's not very satisfying for me, but then I have this virtual place to vent.

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colpat wrote
I respect your refuge, your haven.
And I appreciate that sensibility.

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colpat wrote
I am located on the Jeebus spectrum at the far right. I asked Jesus to be my Boss at age 8,(saved, but able to backslide)
I think I know what you mean here, but I'm still forced to make a lot of assumptions. You didn't literally communicate with someone called Jesus, did you? I take it you mean that you made a bargain with the Jesus in your mind (that is, as you imagine a Jesus to be) and vowed to do everything in your power not to offend this Jesus.

Do you believe this Jesus is constantly monitoring your behavior and thougts? If you believe that, wouldn't that make it extremely difficult to "backslide?"

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colpat wrote
Married 1954 to a Proverbs 31 lady. Before we married we covenanted to base our family on Proverbs 3:5-6. That is my experience. I cite it only to help you understand from where I am coming.
Congratulations on your long marriage.

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colpat wrote
I will do my best to choose the correct thread/s for the real festivities.
Good luck.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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Old 07-28-2011, 02:14 PM   #32
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Irreligious wrote View Post
Long ago, I discovered that one way to achieve that is to make sure it's one-way conversation with minimal input on my end. It's not very satisfying for me, but then I have this virtual place to vent.
I've gradually come to this realization. So true.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:04 PM   #33
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They're not meant to be hostile questions. You know me; I'm not confrontational. I just think it's important that we define our terms, or how else do we know what we're talking about?
You are a bonafide sweetie pie for sure. I wouldn't even suggest that you are a hostile guy.

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Old 07-28-2011, 03:07 PM   #34
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #35
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By the way, what is with this one nation under god bullshit?

The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:19 PM   #36
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Easy to see that it is many thousands of different little nations under the one true god.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:31 AM   #37
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Hi Colpat: There is a UK contingent on this forum, including me. So you may get a fair bit of UK atheism but the basic substance is the same: there is no god; atheism is freedom; belief is a mental shackle. In the UK the word atheist is often prefaced by "militant" or "aggressive."
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:29 AM   #38
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Greetings to all and thanks for starting my dance card. My interest in an Raving Atheists forum, where the gloves come off, ol' phella's can spit and whittle and where a nice grown up discussion is encouraged is: for me to become a better teacher by learning the atheist language and be able to foster better understanding of an atheist world view. Much of today's teaching is based on gross misinformation. I welcome the opportunity to engage in a rational discussion of ideas and ideals. I have rare, but valuable experience. I roomed with an atheist for 13 months as an Aviation Cadet in 1953. The result was both strengthened our own world-view and a great friendship. I respect your refuge, your haven. I am located on the Jeebus spectrum at the far right. I asked Jesus to be my Boss at age 8,(saved, but able to backslide)Married 1954 to a Proverbs 31 lady. Before we married we covenanted to base our family on Proverbs 3:5-6. That is my experience. I cite it only to help you understand from where I am coming. I will do my best to choose the correct thread/s for the real festivities.
see - this is where you lose my interest and rile me up at the same time- there is no such thing as an 'atheist world view' - it is merely not believing in the existence of a god or gods - that is it.

I think you are here to try and learn how to teach your poor little victims at school or whatever den of iniquity you call a church - how to argue with atheists- good luck matey- i think you arrive with preconceptions and presumptions dripping from you but what the fuck do I know eh?

'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:17 AM   #39
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psychodiva:
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see - this is where you lose my interest and rile me up at the same time- there is no such thing as an 'atheist world view' - it is merely not believing in the existence of a god or gods - that is it.
Perhaps I used the wrong words "world views" I'm trying to learn how an atheist thinks/reasons/understands/sees the world around us. One benefit will be to teach the "poor little victims at school" how to work together as good citizens. I'm sorry to rile you up. You misunderstand my intentions and have made some erroneous assumptions. I have not argued with atheists, nor have I ever tried to teach anyone to argue with any worldview.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #40
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Kinich Ahau: Thanks for the welcome and good question.

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What makes you interested in an atheist for
I want to learn how to communicate with atheists.

Sorry I missed your post. I'm still working on answering post and not starting new threads. I think it has something to do with my Display Modes.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:43 AM   #41
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Greetings Broga:
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There is a UK contingent on this forum, including me. So you may get a fair bit of UK atheism but the basic substance is the same: there is no god; atheism is freedom; belief is a mental shackle. In the UK the word atheist is often prefaced by "militant" or "aggressive."
Thanks for the information. I'm on the forum to learn to communicate with atheists. I'm glad to know I can learn the UK English dialect! . I like someone who is "militant or aggressive". To me that means they are passionate in what they believe. I've spent time in England off and on since Aug 1955 and look forward to learning more about how the UK atheist view the world.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:43 AM   #42
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Quote:
colpat wrote View Post
I'm trying to learn how an atheist thinks/reasons/understands/sees the world around us.
Like a human being.

Quote:
One benefit will be to teach the "poor little victims at school" how to work together as good citizens.
By teaching them to do unto others, as I dunno, human beings? Huh. Thought that one was already on your books. Interesting the extra effort that allegedly goes into making sure they aren't nasty little hypocrites.

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I'm sorry to rile you up.


Quote:
You misunderstand my intentions and have made some erroneous assumptions.
Ha. Time will suss that one out, don't you fret.

Quote:
I have not argued with atheists, nor have I ever tried to teach anyone to argue with any worldview.

"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:47 AM   #43
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colpat wrote View Post
I want to learn how to communicate with atheists.
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colpat wrote View Post
I'm on the forum to learn to communicate with atheists.
Try something like this, you condescending prick:




"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:04 PM   #44
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Colpat: I am going to be presumptious here and say I think I can help you. I think that there is no point in getting into endless points, explanations, arguments and, eventually, we all lose patience. So I am going to put the whole deal before you at once. Not only that but the explanation about why atheism makes sense comes from one of your own. I am talking about a one time very successful evangelical preacher who explains what it is like from inside the christian evangelical mindset. He describes how he used reason to realise that he was preaching and believing not only nonense but pernicious and damaging nonsense.

I suggest you read "godless: How an evangelical preacher became one of America's leading atheists" by Dan Barker. Foreward by Richard Dawkins. Read it, save yourself a lot of time, and follow a well trodden path by increasing numbers of preachers - many write to Dan Barker. Jump ship, Colpat, join the excitement of discovering you can be intellectually free and the great life that comes with that. If those around you don't like that, then that is their problem. Dan Barker will tell you all you need in order to refute them. He has been there.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:51 PM   #45
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Thanks for the information. I'm on the forum to learn to communicate with atheists.
Here are some common words translated from the Theist to Atheist dictionary:

Know: When a theist says they "Know" something ("I know god exists."), they really mean they "Think", because knowing implies:
1. Be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.
2. Have knowledge or information concerning.
Instead of just the baseless speculation that they actually have.

Atheistic Worldview: When a theist says "atheistic worldview" they think that all atheists have a singular worldview, just like all theists have their singular "theistic worldview" that Cthulhu will one day rise from the depths of the ocean and send us all into oblivion.

Objective Morality: When a theist says objective morality they don't mean morality that has any basis in objective facts or even that morality is the same no matter who is perceiving them and no matter what the subjective reasoning one uses to justify them. They just like the idea that there is some kind of absolute moral code of which we can all be judged by... but also get a free pass for.

Scientific Theory: When a theist says "it's just a theory" they don't mean that don't believe it the same way they don't beleive in the theory of gravity, they really mean that they don't really understand the scientific method.

Facts: When a theist says facts or scientific studies, they usually mean wild speculation and/or completely misrepresenting evidence instead of facts being a provable concept or empirical evidence.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.
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