Why won't God heal amputees?

[nkb]

Thomas,
Not to try to get this thread back on topic or anything, but you have successfully derailed this thread, while ducking some pertinent questions.

You claim that the reason God does not heal amputees is that amputees should not be considered as lesser people, or somehow "incomplete", yet you have no issue with prayers for people to overcome a disease, or to alleviate pain.

According to you, there is nothing "wrong" with amputees, therefore there is nothing to heal.

So, I come back to my original question, which I will be asking for the third time (but I will rephrase it):

If you lost a body part (finger, arm, leg, etc) in an accident, and it was medically feasible to reattach it, would you do it?

[Irreligious]

thomastwo, people betray their professed morality all the time. It's called rationalizing. Sometimes, what we want is in conflict with our supposed ideals and we make exceptions to the rule. What is so extraordinary about this to you?

[Irreligious]

Good point, nkb. There's a lot of obfuscating going on here, I think.

[thomastwo]

Irreligious wrote

We also don't think we're as pretty or as handsome as we should be, as rich as we ought to be, as loved and as acknowledged as we deserve. What has this got to do with anything?

What it's got to do with anything is that several pages ago Philboid asked "perhaps you'll flesh out for us the odious Xtian position that NO ONE is "whole" without the benediction of your Imaginary Friend." and I answered with "But on the issue, do you really think that anybody *is* whole ? Aren't we all dealing with a bunch of issues related to our self-interest, deception, lying and just plain difficulty in getting along with others ? I find the Christian position on this very realistic"

From that we've been discussing if there is a basic human condition related to our brokeness. And from that arises the idea that there is a way we think we ought to behave that is different from the way we actually do.

[Irreligious]

We're not broken. We are what we are. We're not gods failing to live up to some cosmic ideal, just high functioning primates trying to survive.

[thomastwo]

nkb wrote

Thomas,
Not to try to get this thread back on topic or anything, but you have successfully derailed this thread, while ducking some pertinent questions.

You claim that the reason God does not heal amputees is that amputees should not be considered as lesser people, or somehow "incomplete", yet you have no issue with prayers for people to overcome a disease, or to alleviate pain.

knock and it shall be answered......

I never made this claim. What I said was that in atheists asking the question "why doesn't god heal amputees" that they were making implicit, discriminatory statements about amputees that are not justified.

nkb wrote

According to you, there is nothing "wrong" with amputees, therefore there is nothing to heal.

So, I come back to my original question, which I will be asking for the third time (but I will rephrase it):

If you lost a body part (finger, arm, leg, etc) in an accident, and it was medically feasible to reattach it, would you do it?

There is nothing wrong with amputees. They don't have a disease.

If I lost a body part in an accident and it was feasible to re-attach it of course I would. And I would praise God for the healing process and procedure.

[thomastwo]

Irreligious wrote

We're not broken. We are what we are. We're not gods failing to live up to some cosmic ideal, just high functioning primates trying to survive.

For sure we are not gods. When I look at the world around me I see a lot of good things but I also see a lot of pain and anguish caused by people to each other. And I'm not pointing fingers I'm part of this too.

[Irreligious]

thomastwo wrote

For sure we are not gods. When I look at the world around me I see a lot of good things but I also see a lot of pain and anguish caused by people to each other. And I'm not pointing fingers I'm part of this too.

Unfortunately, thomastwo, it's what we do. Ever it has been and ever it will be as long as we exist on this planet. It's our nature. We are one species, but not one organism. We have competing interests and that causes conflict. We compete for resources, we compete for territory and mates. There's a lot of pain built into an existence like that. We are not alone in that condition. Other species compete, too, and it ain't pretty watching two lions compete to rule a pride any more than it is watching two human tribes go at over a piece of land.

[thomastwo]

Irreligious wrote

Unfortunately, thomastwo, it's what we do. Ever it has been and ever it will be as long as we exist on this planet. It's our nature. We are one species, but not one organism. We have competing interests and that causes conflict. We compete for resources, we compete for territory and mates. There's a lot of pain built into an existence like that. We are not alone in that condition. Other species compete, too, and it ain't pretty watching two lions compete to rule a pride any more than it is watching two human tribes go at over a piece of land.

Yes, you're right. The atheist worldview is extremely bleak.

I wonder if those lions have a sense of how the world could be different if only they co-operated.

[Irreligious]

thomastwo wrote

Yes, you're right. The atheist worldview is extremely bleak.

I wonder if those lions have a sense of how the world could be different if only they co-operated.

The world is not extremely bleak for all of us. It certainly isn't for me at the moment, as I sit in my well appointed room, leisurely responding to your posts. However, it's a lot bleaker for many others out there and it may be for me at some point.

Obviously, we have opportunities for cooperation, which is what allows me (and possibly you, too) to have such a nice, comfortable existence. Lions cooperate, too, when they need to, or they'd all starve.

The point is, life ain't perfect, whatever perfect is supposed to be. We live in a dynamic, ever changing world, the existence of which is not dependant upon your yearnings or mine.

[nkb]

thomastwo wrote

knock and it shall be answered......

I never made this claim. What I said was that in atheists asking the question "why doesn't god heal amputees" that they were making implicit, discriminatory statements about amputees that are not justified.

I can't speak for all atheists, but I am not making any implicit discriminatory statements about amputees.

From my own perspective, I would not want to lose a limb any more than I would want to get a disease, or go through life with constant pain.

Add to that the fact that losing a limb often is accompanied by phantom pain where the limb used to be, and the added difficulty of going through everyday life with less limbs than nature intended, whether it is with a prosthetic, in a wheelchair, or on crutches.

thomastwo wrote

There is nothing wrong with amputees. They don't have a disease.

Medically speaking, there is something wrong with an amputee. They don't deserve any less respect than others, but they are, undeniably, physically handicapped.

I don't have any source to support this, but I will make a common sense guess that the vast majority of people who lost a body part would rather have it back than not. Do you disagree with that?

thomastwo wrote

If I lost a body part in an accident and it was feasible to re-attach it of course I would. And I would praise God for the healing process and procedure.

Why? If there is nothing wrong with you sans body part, why bother going through surgery to reattach it?

Is it or is it not desireable to have all your body parts intact?

[Choobus]

nkb wrote

I can't speak for all atheists, but I am not making any implicit discriminatory statements about amputees.

I am, they give me the fear. And how can you trust someone who can't wank?

[Philboid Studge]

thomastwo wrote

Philboid : Can I basically summarise your position as that from your personal experience and based on observation that people do what they think they ought to do. That is, that they act in accordance with their morality (whatever that might be).

No you may not.

I would never generalise human behavior to this (or any other) one-size-fits-all oversimplification.

Some people are immoral. Some people are amoral. Etc....

[Professor Chaos]

thomastwo wrote

I have no idea what you mean by free-will other than the theological free-will that I described earlier. Do you have some other meaning ? If not, what is it you see in my argument which relies on God constraining human action ? I don't see it ?

And let me ask you a simple question. Do people do things that they think they ought not do ?[/quote]

Some do.

[Professor Chaos]

thomastwo wrote

If I lost a body part in an accident and it was feasible to re-attach it of course I would. And I would praise God for the healing process and procedure.

Poor doctors, nurses, scientists, surgeons, chemists and pharmacists. Always a bridesmaid...