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Old 02-02-2009, 08:06 PM   #481
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Alright at least you are putting up a fight.
Putting up a fight implies that you actually brought a fight. So far, all I've seen from you are someone else's lame arguments.

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Ok, you just stated that it is impossible to prove a negative. Then you said you are 100% sure that Jesus is a myth. Another way of stating that is you are 100% sure he did NOT exist. How is that not faulty logic?
When I say "Jesus didn't exist", I refer to the divine Jesus, not some random dude named Jesus, who may have walked around and annoyed people 2000 years ago.

The reason I can say that God (meaning your God, Yahweh) doesn't exist is because he is logically inconsistent (you know, the whole tri-omni attributes, which are mutually exclusive).
The reason I can be sure there was no divine Jesus is the utter lack of evidence for him, outside of a book with some highly biased authors, and the fact that everything about him was plagiarized from other god myths that preceded him (son of god, virgin birth, miracles, bla, bla, bla).

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Alright I get it you have heard the apologetic stuff before. So my question to you is there anything a historian could tell that you would believe? If so what standard did the other historical documents pass that ones in the link below do not meet?

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_extrabib.html
Sure, although I'm not sure what you think they might find now that they haven't dug up in 2000 years.
I would consider it a good start to find something, anything, contemporary about Jesus. A mention in the Roman records of a cult leader that was nailed to a cross, Jesus' grocery list, a letter to Santa from kid Jesus, anything.
Of course, from that to showing me that he was divine and performed miracles, I can't imagine any evidence that would be strong enough to convince me.
What would you propose as reasonable?

Note: You do realize the information in the link you provided has been beat to death here many times over? Why don't you do a search and read up, before we rehash all of it.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:12 PM   #482
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I am glad you brought up DNA. DNA is a clear indicator of an intelligent designer. As you know every cell is controlled by DNA and it depends what part of the DNA is activated that makes our cells a liver or a pancreas cell, for example. Where did that information come from? If an orchestra "evolved" it can still do nothing without an intelligent designer (composer) to orchestrate it all. Our cells can do nothing without the intelligence in our DNA. The DNA had to be there first. People keep saying that we have "junk" DNA to invalidate this but the more they learn the more that theory gets weaker and weaker.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025112059.htm'


Since our Genome is actually depleting our DNA gets corrupt just like a computer program We have never seen in all that time NEW information to our genome. Every generation is more corrupt than the next. Thatís correct it is a fact that all species are heading towards extinction. (examples, you may notice cancer and fertility problems). This is a fact and is believed by evolutionist (quoted in the book below). The lowest estimate is that we have 100 mutations for generation. The most liberal is 6000. Here is a link for an article on the web but the book "Genetic Entropy" by Dr. J.C. Sanford is the best source to read about this. Again he uses evolutionist data to make his case. He invented the Gene Gun (so he invented Genetically Modified Food). Think he knows something about DNA??

http://www.trueorigin.org/mutations01.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Sanford

The fact that we are a copy of a copy of a copy that gets corrupt every generation and we still work is a testimony how great the original program was. Heck there is even COMPRESSION in DNA. Example

AGCI
CTAG

In the above example the CI in the first line and the CT in the second line is information. But the CI can still be used in the first line and the CT can still be used in the second line.


Since I do not believe in evolution, than I not sure you want me to get into your Schizophrenic argument
Did you bump your head? Intelligent designer?
you did NOT answer my question:

AGAIN, don't we create THOUGHTS & belief in God or other imaginary friend with our brains?..so much for you deluded ignorant, stupid intelligent designer nonsense. Please go see a neurologist so this can be explained to you. BTW we are in the 21st Century NOT the 12th. Accepting imaginary friends, aka intelligent designers & other delusions, as REALITY is symptom of schizophrenia. In your case Christ-psychosis. Please put up or shut up, you have ZERO evidence on your ignorant stupid delusions...May Winnie the Pooh save your "soul"..

Hey retard, don't forget you are in a forum of mentally healthy, aka atheist folks that can, unlike you, tell the difference between fantasy & reality. We know that the Brain is the CREATOR of thought ( yes, belief is a thought produced by neurons), so I suggest you take your deluded anachronistic retarded idiocies someplace else....2+2=4 not any number that suits you.

A brain is an awful thing to waste, please seek help.

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #483
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Stuff wrote:

"Since I do not believe in evolution, than I not sure you want me to get into your Schizophrenic argument"

No because you'll LOOSE. Facts are clear backed up with EVIDENCE. We are born ATHEIST, lacking belief unable to tell between fantasy & reality. You simply did not learn this difference, sorry, this makes you a retard that believes 2+2= ANYTHING but 4.

Take my JET, so you can land in the real world & understand. Afraid? well. all Christ-psychosis are afraid of the TRUTH. You'll die, decompose & ROT retard.

Here, to refresh your faulty memory. Answer this

Do we create thoughts ( belief in god etc) with our BRAINS or do we pick them up from the divine ( god) as a radio picks up waves?

Care to answer retard? Afraid?..Be very afraid of the neurological evidence I bring.

Oh here is the JET, enjoy the truth...please PRAY all you want, it is USELESS. Oh, and that goes for ILLNESSES too. When you get sick, PRAY, do not be a hypocrite & see a medical doctor who learn his trade due to EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY....just Pray & Pray..you'll be unwittingly taking my JET. Go ahead retard.if you get cancer. PRAY,do not see an oncologist..you'll be a hypocrite & zombie jesus will punish you...LOL

JESUS EXISTENCE TEST- Drastic #1

Go to a top of a twenty story building bring a Babble start praying and quoting praying and still quoting and praying to the "Lord and Saviour" so he would assist you and save you when you Jump from the top floor. Pray that "Saviour Jesus" make someone place matresses below, or make some truck driver carrying a load of sponge rubber park it below to soften your fall. This should be very easy for this "invisible lord and savior friend of yours" since he has the ability to get into people's minds and could suggest life savings techniques to help the needed.

Well, the reality of it all is that "saviour Jesus" will NOT show up. Jesus is as real as the Tooth Fairy, Donald Duck or Santa Claus. Can you put up or shut up? Please prove me wrong retard, I dare you....

Sorry dude your brain is way retarded & filled with defective genes...free radicals will be its doom. Watch out for alzheimer or dementia..millions of prayers to zombie Jesus could not save you.
Here is an illustration so you understnad it better..good luck. May the true lord & savior Winnie the Pooh be with you. In His name, Amun

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:49 PM   #484
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:03 PM   #485
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Go suck a bag a dicks you wanker
Stuff, this seemed like it applies to you as well.

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Old 02-03-2009, 12:38 AM   #486
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Stuff, it is not possible to engage you in intelligent discourse on this topic. You repeatedly refuse to hold up your end of the bargain. It is why the folks here resort to rudeness and non sequiturs.

Pointing out the copious errors in your logic is for naught. In fact, any attempt to pierce the iron veil of your religious faith is pure folly. We all know that.

For some reason, you are compelled to believe that you actually know what you cannot know and to make wild speculations that defy common sense.

Perhaps, in no other sphere of your life would you trust in the concrete existence of that which you simultaneously acknowlege as invisible and without substance. However, where your religious faith is concerned, you are compelled to do just that.

Fine.

But how do you expect us to argue seriously when you are defending such an unreasonable premise?

I suppose we could patronize you. It's a tack I sometimes take in real life when I encounter the sincerely superstitious. But why should I have to do that here?

Here, we try to hold you and other theists to account. But you always firmly refuse. And then, most gallingly, you blame us for not taking your unreasonable assertions seriously.

Face it, unless we're groveling at your feet and kissing your ass, we can't win with you.

So now that you've had the opportunity to repay our inhospitable diatribes with your own, perhaps it really is time that you sought greener pastures.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:45 PM   #487
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Please answer these questions:

Is there such a thing as DNA & the genom, which are instructions to create our bodies?...then, don't our brains, a product of random mutations by DNA over 1/2 billion years of evolution, produced our thoughts belief in imaginary friend like god & other delusions or does this organ picks them up from the divine like a radio picks up waves?

If the latter is true why are we born lacking belief ( aka atheist). Don't forget while there is evidence of the former there is non of the latter.

Also what's the difference between the Imaginary Friend of a Schizophrenic who reassures him/her with soothing inner voices of his existence guaranteeing salvation from flying monsters and an imaginary friend named Jesus ( whose existence lacks any archaeological evidence) who also guarantees salvation from inherited "sin" of disobedience committed by a mud-man & his rib-woman when they accepted a forbidden fruit from a talking snake?

Are those beliefs planted during its creation then surfacing later at the age of reason or at a later date?. When is the data gathered by the forming brain, during the imprinting period or when the imaginary friend ( Jesus or whoever) blows the "soul" during conception?

Tell me, do the stork bring babies or are they the product of a resurrected god-head's offerings at the cave of Venus-Genetrix ( life-giver) as the creators of Christianity once thought? Do you know?

Let's stick with facts backed up with evidence, just like the fact that 2+2=4 and not any other number, shall we, for we are in the 21st Century & not the 12th. Today we have lots of evidence, the FIRST been that we created god with our brains.
I did answer your first question about DNA. There is no way you can say that the information of DNA evolved with confidence. It is a screaming argument against evolution. Protein cannot function without intelligently programmed DNA. What part of the primordial ooze is inherently intelligent?

I did not answer your Schizophrenic comment because it was based off the premise that evolution was true, and that is why I attacked that premise, but no matter. I will give you that a Schizophrenic has illusions. Itís obvious. I will even give (for sake of argument) that we will live in an illusion. Here's your help: There is more empty space in solid objects than in Dark Matter (empty space). An electron's orbit if it were drawn to scale is almost all empty space. Itís like having a football (electron) circle around the stadium with the proton in the middle. Conclusion, solid objects have more empty space than matter! Also, cosmologist have calculated the weight of the universe and have concluded that dark matter weighs more than all the stars combined (conclusion empty space is not empty) So I give you the illusion. If you want to say we live in the Matrix than who / what controls that Matrix.

How do you explain that protons know what all other protons are doing, even when they are separated far enough that they cannot send a signal to each other? The guy who discovered this was an atheist who later committed suicide. Perhaps this rattled his world view too much. Who / What is orchestrating the proton movements?

Fear your knowledge???? I will give you the title brain surgeon if you want. You can say what you want about Neurons and Dendrites. It is only your world view that leads you to the conclusion that Schizophrenics prove Atheism, just like mine leads that data to Theism. We both must back up our world views first.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #488
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Sounds like you weren't intellectually honest then. Nothing has changed.

ps, Jesus sucks cocks in hell while his dad watches
How can you be intellectually honest without leaving room to exam new evidence? I was an atheist because I had a problem with God sending people to hell who never heard of this Jesus dude. What if you where in a primitive culture or around before Jesus was even born? Then I learned that he allows people to go to heaven if they believe there is a God after looking at his creation (in the book of Romans) This is unfortunately not a loophole for pretty much anyone in American since we all have heard of him. I also had problems with other supposedly divine Gospels like the Gospel of Thomas. I have researched these books and the evidence that they are not Biblical is convincing. So I swallowed my pride and changed my world view. Unless, you where there when the world was created you can only look at the evidence and make a choice. You need faith to be an atheist or a theist.

As far as your insults to Jesus, isn't it ironic that he would actually forgive you for that statement if you asked him.

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Old 02-04-2009, 01:52 PM   #489
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[font=&quot]How can you be intellectually honest without leaving room to exam new evidence?

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Old 02-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #490
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As far as your insults to Jesus, isn't it ironic that he would actually forgive you for that statement if you asked him.

That's only ironic in the Alanis Morissette sense of irony. Which is to say, it was ironic that she would presume to write about irony when she doesn't know what ironic means.

Also: Jesus sucking cocks in hell while Dad watches isn't an insult, it's a testament to God's omniscience (and Jesus' merciful nature).

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Old 02-04-2009, 02:02 PM   #491
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I am glad you brought up DNA. DNA is a clear indicator of an intelligent designer a clear sign that your head is broken. As you know every cell is controlled by DNA and it depends what part of the DNA is activated that makes our cells a liver or a pancreas cell, for example. Where did that information come from?if your answer is a magical cross fairy, where did THAT come from? If an orchestra "evolved" it can still do nothing without an intelligent designer (composer) fuck sake jr...may as well break out the watch maker cry...just as flawedto orchestrate it all. Our cells can do nothing without the intelligence in our DNAand you honestly believe that dna is "intelligence"? so monkeys really are our cousins...their dna is almost as intelligent as ours....tool. The DNA had to be there first. People keep saying that we have "junk" DNA to invalidate this but the more they learn the more that theory gets weaker and weakersee spleen/cocyx/your family genome.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025112059.htm'
uh oh, another google warrior. pasting a link shows laziness or the inabilty to grasp basic concept.

Since our Genome is actually depleting our DNA gets corrupt just like a computer program We have never seen in all that time NEW information to our genomeif downs syndrome was a favorable trait for prolonged existance in our world, we'd all be waterheads.. Every generation is more corrupt than the nextit's called linear evolution ding bat. Thatís correct it is a fact that all species are heading towards extinctionis that a fact? site a reference...jesus doesn't count. (examples, you may notice cancer and fertility problemsall are problems that have been nurtured by modern medicine...we're combating our own evolution. is this the only example you have? cause it stinks of dead wrong). This is a fact and is believed by evolutionist (quoted in the book below). The lowest estimate is that we have 100 mutations for generation. The most liberal is 6000. Here is a link for an article on the web but the book "Genetic Entropy"I guess god fucked up worse than i imagined when he created man....say, when does this omnicent being of yours begin show a little divinity? He certainly makes a lot of mistakes by Dr. J.C. Sanford is the best source to read about thisyou mean it's the best source to ramble on about your point which is moot at best...have you tried reading anything contrary to your wacky beliefs? or is that a bubble you'd rather not pierce?. Again he uses evolutionist data to make his casealmost in the same mannor that hundreds of people use only the bible to make their case against god...you're still displaying a gross inability to think for yourself. He invented the Gene Gun (so he invented Genetically Modified Food). Think he knows something about DNAdo you think this makes him the expert on evolution...do you honestly believe he has all the facts? or are you clinging to his theory and praying to cheezums that he knows what he's talking about???

http://www.trueorigin.org/mutations01.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Sanford

The fact that we are a copy of a copy of a copy that gets corrupt every generationlike the bible... and we still work is a testimony how great the original program wasexcept we're doomed to extinction along with every other creature on earth...that's a testimony to how fucked up the original program was.. Heck there is even COMPRESSION god was a techy?in DNA. Example

AGCI
CTAG

In the above example the CI in the first line and the CT in the second line is information. But the CI can still be used in the first line and the CT can still be used in the second line.

Since I do not believe in evolution, than I not sure you want me to get into your Schizophrenic argumenti strongly doubt anyone is on edge about you...if nothing else we can all learn from your patchy thought process

We are not combating our own problems of evolution. ALL western medicine masks problems and symptoms. There are no treatments that ADD information to our DNA to correct errors in our DNA code.

You say monkeys DNA is intelligent as ours. It is depending on who you listen to it is 96% to 92% different. I have computer programming background and I will tell you that 1% mistake equals a non workable program. Whoever /Whatever programmed DNA is beyond our comprehension. But that is not even the main point. What evolutionist won't tell you is that the 96% (I will give you the Liberal number) is not in the same ORDER as us. Changing the order changes the meaning. For example "Evolution is a religion" is different than "nloveutio si a neriligo" We are nothing like monkeys.

Our Genome is a copy, of a copy JUST like our Bible. To shay on your argument. However it is nothing like the miracle of birth. Copying data from one paper can be done without error. There are over 5700 geographical disperse manuscripts of the Bible with 99% of the same information. And out of the 1% there is nothing that changes doctrine mostly different spellings of cities.

Jesus does not count as a reference? I don't even have to prove that the Bible is divinely inspired (although I could) you cannot discount it as an historical document. If you do you must discount all historical documents
And you mocked Sanford as a source (even though he invented the Gene Gun). I donít even have to prove Sanfordís credentials. He used EVOLUTIONIST data to make his point. Avoid the book though it is easier to live in world where God canít tell you what to do




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Old 02-04-2009, 02:03 PM   #492
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:03 PM   #493
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Stuff, if you truly believed in the existence of a god who sent people to hell, then I submit that you never were an atheist. You were just mad at an entity which you perceived as real, and who you also thought to be unjust.

I am telling you that I don't believe in the existence of this alleged entity at all. Never did. It is farcical. It is a concept dreamed up by desert nomads long, long ago, ignorant and superstitious folks who had far less of an understanding of the nature of the world than we do today.

Ultimately, those long dead folks did not know what gave rise to existence. We still don't know the answer to that question today, and neither do you.

How many times do you want us to keep saying this? It is, after all, the only sane response to your incessant unfounded speculations.

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Old 02-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #494
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Stuff, if DNA is clearly evidence of an intelligent designer, what would we be made of if we weren't intelligently designed? And our DNA is one big molecule, where exactly is the "intelligence" in that? And you talk about cells being there after DNA, but thats common knowledge. We know cells are just a better way for DNA to protect itself better.

And you talk about the genome not getting new information, but isn't the so called corruption itself new information?

I also find it interesting that you are using the programmer analogy with all this science, but isn't it interesting how when dealing with the topic of free will, you abandon it for the more crude father analogy? If you continue the programmer analogy, you have the problem of having to blame the god for our mistakes, just as you have to blame the programmer for the program's mistakes.
I don't have to blame the programmer for the mistakes. Even, if it may seem unfair, we are under the curse of sin. I will give you this though (not that I had too because you didn't even bring it up). Put a two year old in a room and tell him not to touch the pudding and he is probably going to get in trouble. Tell Adam not to touch the Apple? Was it a step up. I really don't know it is logically possible that there is a world where no one has ever sinned. However, the corruption of our world (or genome) is consistent with the story of the Bible whether you believe or not is a different story.


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Old 02-04-2009, 02:05 PM   #495
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Putting up a fight implies that you actually brought a fight. So far, all I've seen from you are someone else's lame arguments.


When I say "Jesus didn't exist", I refer to the divine Jesus, not some random dude named Jesus, who may have walked around and annoyed people 2000 years ago.

The reason I can say that God (meaning your God, Yahweh) doesn't exist is because he is logically inconsistent (you know, the whole tri-omni attributes, which are mutually exclusive).
The reason I can be sure there was no divine Jesus is the utter lack of evidence for him, outside of a book with some highly biased authors, and the fact that everything about him was plagiarized from other god myths that preceded him (son of god, virgin birth, miracles, bla, bla, bla).


Sure, although I'm not sure what you think they might find now that they haven't dug up in 2000 years.
I would consider it a good start to find something, anything, contemporary about Jesus. A mention in the Roman records of a cult leader that was nailed to a cross, Jesus' grocery list, a letter to Santa from kid Jesus, anything.
Of course, from that to showing me that he was divine and performed miracles, I can't imagine any evidence that would be strong enough to convince me.
What would you propose as reasonable?

Note: You do realize the information in the link you provided has been beat to death here many times over? Why don't you do a search and read up, before we rehash all of it.
I am not letting you off that easy. You are caught red handed with an obvious flaw in your logic. I will throw the word "Mythical" if it makes you happy

Ok, you just stated that it is impossible to prove a negative. Then you said you are 100% sure that Mythical or Divine Jesus is a myth. Another way of stating that is you are 100% sure that the Mythical or Divine Jesus did NOT exist. How is that not faulty logic

Also you say that Tacticus, and Pliny the Younger are discounted because of the corrupt Roman Empire and its edict to convert all Romans to Christians (at least thats what I found when I searched your forums concerning the issue). Yet you ignore that when Jesus was alive he lived under persecution and there was even an edict to destroy all Bibles. So whatís the logic in saying that Roman Emperor who loved Christians was corrupt but the ones who tried to kill them werenít.
If you believe in conspiracies by governments so easily than I present this empireís conspiracy; the lie of evolution. Hey if the Romans did it what is so different about us?
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