Calpurnpiso and I might make a fine tag team over Crucifixion.

[Ed-M]

New here! I've been lurking off and on for a short while but I figured, it's time to join. Besides, Calpurnpiso and I (as YouTuber EdM021) had a small back and forth over whether the Romans crucified or not.

I became born-again in my teens and for a long while, I continued to subscribe to Christianity. I basically got burnt out by it in my twenties when I joined a cult called the Boston Church of Christ. Still believed until recently, attended services to recharge off and on. What caused my faith to collapse? Simple. I found out that in the 1st Century CE, Nazareth never existed. All that was discovered to be there (so far) was a necropolis and one single family house. And no mention of that town in the historical records until the 2nd century CE. That is a proven fact.

Well after that, I decided to look into the business of "crucifixion." Turns out, what the Romans did was a form of impalement. And what is the modern definition of "crucifixion?"

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

crucifixion n. 1.a. The act of crucifying, execution on a cross. b. Crucifixion. The crucifying of Jesus on Calvary. Used with the. c. A representation of Jesus on the cross. 2. An extremely difficult and painful trial; tortuous suffering.

crucify v. -fied, fying, fies. 1. To put a person to death by nailing or binding to a [Ed-M: flat plane] cross. 2. To mortify or subdue (the flesh). 3. To subject to cruel treatment; torment: a candidate who was crucified by the press. [Middle English crucified, from Old French crucifier, alteration of Latin crucifigere : crux, cruc-, cross + figere, to attach.

So, according to the modern definition of crucifixion, the Romans never crucifed. Either that or we moderns have crucifixion completely wrong!

Anybody wants to discuss, either lets's dig up the old thread that references Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in it, or start a new one!

In closing, I'm grateful to the fates that I'm no longer under the spell of Christianity.

[calpurnpiso]

Ed-M wrote

New here! I've been lurking off and on for a short while but I figured, it's time to join. Besides, Calpurnpiso and I (as YouTuber EdM021) had a small back and forth over whether the Romans crucified or not.

I became born-again in my teens and for a long while, I continued to subscribe to Christianity. I basically got burnt out by it in my twenties when I joined a cult called the Boston Church of Christ. Still believed until recently, attended services to recharge off and on. What caused my faith to collapse? Simple. I found out that in the 1st Century CE, Nazareth never existed. All that was discovered to be there (so far) was a necropolis and one single family house. And no mention of that town in the historical records until the 2nd century CE. That is a proven fact.

Well after that, I decided to look into the business of "crucifixion." Turns out, what the Romans did was a form of impalement. And what is the modern definition of "crucifixion?"

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

crucifixion n. 1.a. The act of crucifying, execution on a cross. b. Crucifixion. The crucifying of Jesus on Calvary. Used with the. c. A representation of Jesus on the cross. 2. An extremely difficult and painful trial; tortuous suffering.

crucify v. -fied, fying, fies. 1. To put a person to death by nailing or binding to a [Ed-M: flat plane] cross. 2. To mortify or subdue (the flesh). 3. To subject to cruel treatment; torment: a candidate who was crucified by the press. [Middle English crucified, from Old French crucifier, alteration of Latin crucifigere : crux, cruc-, cross + figere, to attach.

So, according to the modern definition of crucifixion, the Romans never crucifed. Either that or we moderns have crucifixion completely wrong!

Anybody wants to discuss, either lets's dig up the old thread that references Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in it, or start a new one!

In closing, I'm grateful to the fates that I'm no longer under the spell of Christianity.

Hey welcome Ed...the amazing thing is that scholars do not look at the epigraphy & interpretations of language...besides failing to use common sense placing themselves in the shoes of a 1st Century VAst Roman Empire citizen. Placing someone up nailed to a cross, which is a symbol of the sun god, it would be as revering the criminal as a god.
I've been all over and I 've yet to find a person punished by been nailed to a cross.
The whole crucifixion thing was a mutation & distortion of tropaeums, specially after the wax image of the son of venus, IuliusCaesar the CHRIST, was placed on a mechanical device that could be rotated arms extended( a tropaeum ) so everyone could see the GOD that had protected them ( Caesar was famous for his clemencia which following DIVINE emperors adopted ). The only way a wax imago ( wax masks of ancestors, since they were LIGHT, were displayed on atriums of houses as we display photographs) of a god can be attach to a Tropaeum CROSS, is by using NAILS ( made of gold no doubt) since ropes were for criminals & the vanquished.

The comet of 44bce that appeared on July 20 during the funeral games given by the son of god Octavius in honor of his father CaesarChrist & his MOTHER VENUS,Maia, Isis, would propel Caesar to the status of a resurrected god that saves with blood which is now in heaven surrounded by the stars-Gods. Octavius Caesar Augustus thus begun minting coins & building temples ALL over the VAST EMPIRE to cement the belief of a triune GOD the Father in heaven, the son (him) & his respective genius ( Spirit). Augustus was the God made flesh ( since he was alive) venerated as such all over the empire ( as the Pope is today) but in truth he always refer to GOD MY FATHER during invocations & prayers. This tradition was followed by all the emperors, building temples so they be worshiped after they had died & ascended to heaven. The epigraphy of this speaks VOLUMES. The big mistake was when an emperor would declare while alive a living god. This happen to Caligula & Nero initiating the ire of the Traders & merchants that resided in Judea Palestina who were the FIRST CHRISTIANS ( Caesar Christ had protected them since their main virtue was to be speculators, thus they were hated).
Caesar as well as Augustus begun to MERGE with many gods including Jupiter, Horus,Yaoweh, etc etc. The temple were the JewishPSychotics bang their head on was a temple to JupiterCaesarAugustus.
There was no such a thing as synagogues or "jewish temples" in 1st C ce. The so called "Jewish" temple that was plundered in 70ce by Titus ( all temples were treasure houses in the ancient world besides places of worship) was a ROMAN TEMPLE ( like the one in Balbeck) whose treasure was taken the REBELS, not all the population was anti Roman the fact of this can be seen in "RABBI" Flavius Josephus adopted by VespacianChrist, admired & die a peaceful death! Why would a traitor be so admired and left alive? Why would a Roman ChristEMperor who killed Jews adopted him?

The fact is that the temple had been defiled by the rebels, so the Romans took the main ROMAN SACRED objects back to ROME to purify them. They are the three most sacred objects of ROMAN rituals contained in temples.
1) The Vestal Virgin candelabra depicting the seven gods each with a FIRE of Vesta/sungod ( Menorah).
2)The table of the sacred presence, This was the table/altar where the God Emperor created the DIVINE LAWS to rule his heavenly kingdom ( VAST Roman empire) and
3) the trumpet/torch of truth, which is the one held by the Genius ( life essence guardian angel each person receives at birth)

if there was a place where crucifixion as punishment had to be depicted if this was a method of punishing criminals was in the Column of Trajan & Marcus Aurelius. Military prowess Victory columns!. There is NONE...but there is ample depiction of impaling, where the FACE of the criminal on a pole at EYE LEVEL could serve as an example for all to see.
I've yet to see in any ancient culture EVIDENCE of crucifixion as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbPi_X2yUY

[Ed-M]

calpurnpiso wrote

Hey welcome Ed...the amazing thing is that scholars do not look at the epigraphy & interpretations of language...besides failing to use common sense placing themselves in the shoes of a 1st Century VAst Roman Empire citizen. Placing someone up nailed to a cross, which is a symbol of the sun god, it would be as revering the criminal as a god.
I've been all over and I 've yet to find a person punished by been nailed to a cross.
The whole crucifixion thing was a mutation & distortion of tropaeums, specially after the wax image of the son of venus, IuliusCaesar the CHRIST, was placed on a mechanical device that could be rotated arms extended( a tropaeum ) so everyone could see the GOD that had protected them ( Caesar was famous for his clemencia which following DIVINE emperors adopted ). The only way a wax imago ( wax masks of ancestors, since they were LIGHT, were displayed on atriums of houses as we display photographs) of a god can be attach to a Tropaeum CROSS, is by using NAILS ( made of gold no doubt) since ropes were for criminals & the vanquished.

The comet of 44bce that appeared on July 20 during the funeral games given by the son of god Octavius in honor of his father CaesarChrist & his MOTHER VENUS,Maia, Isis, would propel Caesar to the status of a resurrected god that saves with blood which is now in heaven surrounded by the stars-Gods. Octavius Caesar Augustus thus begun minting coins & building temples ALL over the VAST EMPIRE to cement the belief of a triune GOD the Father in heaven, the son (him) & his respective genius ( Spirit). Augustus was the God made flesh ( since he was alive) venerated as such all over the empire ( as the Pope is today) but in truth he always refer to GOD MY FATHER during invocations & prayers. This tradition was followed by all the emperors, building temples so they be worshiped after they had died & ascended to heaven. The epigraphy of this speaks VOLUMES. The big mistake was when an emperor would declare while alive a living god. This happen to Caligula & Nero initiating the ire of the Traders & merchants that resided in Judea Palestina who were the FIRST CHRISTIANS ( Caesar Christ had protected them since their main virtue was to be speculators, thus they were hated).
Caesar as well as Augustus begun to MERGE with many gods including Jupiter, Horus,Yaoweh, etc etc. The temple were the JewishPSychotics bang their head on was a temple to JupiterCaesarAugustus.
There was no such a thing as synagogues or "jewish temples" in 1st C ce. The so called "Jewish" temple that was plundered in 70ce by Titus ( all temples were treasure houses in the ancient world besides places of worship) was a ROMAN TEMPLE ( like the one in Balbeck) whose treasure was taken the REBELS, not all the population was anti Roman the fact of this can be seen in "RABBI" Flavius Josephus adopted by VespacianChrist, admired & die a peaceful death! Why would a traitor be so admired and left alive? Why would a Roman ChristEMperor who killed Jews adopted him?

The fact is that the temple had been defiled by the rebels, so the Romans took the main ROMAN SACRED objects back to ROME to purify them. They are the three most sacred objects of ROMAN rituals contained in temples.
1) The Vestal Virgin candelabra depicting the seven gods each with a FIRE of Vesta/sungod ( Menorah).
2)The table of the sacred presence, This was the table/altar where the God Emperor created the DIVINE LAWS to rule his heavenly kingdom ( VAST Roman empire) and
3) the trumpet/torch of truth, which is the one held by the Genius ( life essence guardian angel each person receives at birth)

if there was a place where crucifixion as punishment had to be depicted if this was a method of punishing criminals was in the Column of Trajan & Marcus Aurelius. Military prowess Victory columns!. There is NONE...but there is ample depiction of impaling, where the FACE of the criminal on a pole at EYE LEVEL could serve as an example for all to see.
I've yet to see in any ancient culture EVIDENCE of crucifixion as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbPi_X2yUY

Exactly right! Except for one thing: the Romans nailed or tied people to vertical gravity-racks and impaled them on the attached cruxes (lubricated impaling stakes also Penis-Christs) for purpose of execution. That's one form of live impalement and the other form is direct impalement a la Vlad the Impaler. And the Romans called both types of impalement "crucifixion." The stupid Christians changed all that. Now we have religious and BDSM enthusiats trying to replicate both The Crucifiction and Roman "crucifixion" based on erroneous information.

But they never nailed criminals to flat-plane crosses and lifted them up like gods!

[calpurnpiso]

Ed-M wrote

Exactly right! Except for one thing: the Romans nailed or tied people to vertical gravity-racks and impaled them on the attached cruxes (lubricated impaling stakes also Penis-Christs) for purpose of execution. That's one form of live impalement and the other form is direct impalement a la Vlad the Impaler. And the Romans called both types of impalement "crucifixion." The stupid Christians changed all that. Now we have religious and BDSM enthusiats trying to replicate both The Crucifiction and Roman "crucifixion" based on erroneous information.

But they never nailed criminals to flat-plane crosses and lifted them up like gods!

Yup, they did. It is depicted in Trajan Column. ChristPschotics fail to see, due to the ignorance induced psychosis, that Vlad the Impaler was a defender of the faith. The church had supported his father in creating an organization, after the Crusades, not unlike the Jesuits or Inquisition called the Orden of the Dragon ( Dracul) to fight the Muslims and Jews.
The ChristPsychotic retards fighting among each other on the "nature" of Zombie Jesus & who was the true POPE ( Rome or Constantinople) became divided & Mehmed Celebi ( il Fatih=conqueror) the 18 yr old son of Murad conquered Constantinople may 11, 1453. Killing the last ChristPsychotic emperor whose name was also Constantine XI.
many do not realize Islam PSychotic are hundred time more tolerant that Christians as long as they are NOT invaded & TOLD they MUST change their religion.

Mehmed II was incredibly tolerant, his physician was an Italian JEW, Giacopo de Gaeta. He allowed Christians, Jews and others to worship FREELY ( in the tradition of Salah Al Dihn). During this time the plague had depopulated the city.
Mehmed after defeating also the CHRISTIAN armies of Vlad Tepish ( Dracula) demanded as ransom his handsome younger brother RADU, who became a Muslim & the favorite boytoy of Mehmed II. Radu drove Mehmed insane with his intelligence & beauty.

it is believed ChristPsychotic Dracula ate part of the flesh of his victims. Ahh Christian love to drink & eat blood...

[psychodiva]

can we not get a button wherein that is possible? at least I know which thread to ignore now tho- thanks Smelly - and hopefully they will keep each other busy

[Ed-M]

Cal hasn't come back, it appears I've won the catfight, so now I feel free to talk about other things!

[Ed-M]

Or what's really going on in that first picture in the immediate post above is the Romans are building some sort of platform or a siege ramp viaduct. Because after some more study, I've figured that's what it really looks like.

[calpurnpiso]

Ed-M wrote

Or what's really going on in that first picture in the immediate post above is the Romans are building some sort of platform or a siege ramp viaduct. Because after some more study, I've figured that's what it really looks like.

The platform was made so a spaceship with a Crucified criminal lands. Notice the impale head of Decebalus soldiers are waiting to be restored to life ( they are on a different panel)...so many signs to read so little time

[Sternwallow]

The Clapper's towering ego intellect interpretation tops every archaeologist except one.[/sarcasm]

He most likely misread that one to make it match his bizarre beliefs as he has done with so many previous references.

Cal will soon enough turn his obscene repulsive replies on poor Ed who fails to agree with him.

[calpurnpiso]

Sternwallow wrote

The Clapper's towering ego intellect interpretation tops every archaeologist except one.[/sarcasm]

He most likely misread that one to make it match his bizarre beliefs as he has done with so many previous references.

Cal will soon enough turn his obscene repulsive replies on poor Ed who fails to agree with him.

MAn are you ignorant. Does everyone agree with you moron? I bet Sapolky would laugh at you more than disagreeing with you who believe people that believe in Zombie JEsus ( ChristPsychotics) are SANE & just feigning the schizotypy. He provided PROOF religious beliefs with their metamagical reasoning are a form of schizotypal disorder & quote an anthropologist which said in 1940 religion was organized schizophrenia.
His statements clearly PROVE my point making you look like an educate stupid idiot with his head up his arse..

Just because we see ancient history from different angles and disagree in few things, it doesn't me Ed & I, don't agree in most things, unlike you fucking moron pretending you know what Ed & I know, since we study history & CONNECT DOTS...
Ed & I know how the psychosis of religious belief evolved & its hold on the minds of the ancients.
You as comparison, know nothing deriding those who do, way to go moron.. Envy? for sure. Go back to your cave & study rocks..

GEt a brain stupid fool..

[Sternwallow]

ClappinPeon wrote

... [sadly typical Clapper hysterical screeching] ...

You said that the archaeologists did not agree with you except for one. That one, as usual, you misquote and misinterpret for your own bizarre ends.

I don't think that everyone agrees with me, but you have not shown that anyone agrees with you. That is why I feel justified in calling your pet WAG a "bizarre" conjecture.

You are like a theist, stranded in mid-air by your WAG with no visible means of support.

Somewhere you seem to have gotten the idea that some notions are intrinsically insane, that just having them makes a person nuts. It appears that what classifies a notion as bizarre and psychopathic are those that you don't happen to agree with.

A short time ago you would have called belief in continental drift a crazy and bizarre idea. But people who believed it then were not crazy or even deluded. Same for belief in the resurrection of Jesus. It is probably not true, but belief in it is not, in itself, bizarre or even definitely wrong as long as you cannot disprove the event. Once you have found strong evidence that it never happened, then, the believers are still not insane as long as reasonable people are not compelled by your evidence. When, at last, your proof is complete that Jesus was never resurrected, there will be many sane people who are simply and resiliently ignorant due to their upbringing, so even they are not mentally impaired in their belief.

What of people who are impaired, people who hear voices, who are sure they are Jesus Christ, who have brain tumors that depress the reasoning centers? Such people very frequently believe that they can swim because of the reasoning failure in their brains. Let us then confuse correlation with causation and say that thinking you can swim when you cannot is a mental aberration and not simply wrong or ignorant.

I suppose that you will counter by saying that I am stupid and uneducated in some discipline that you think is critical to this issue even though you, yourself are not formally educated in that discipline. You will say that the facts of plate tectonics are irrelevant, and then you will claim I am wrong neurologically while refusing or more likely quite unable to cite a single neuroscientist who agrees with you.

I am not sure why I continue to spell out the simple and easily verified facts to you since you are well shielded from acceptance of what you can see in the people around you due to your insubstantial (and, in your case a uniquely porous) education.

Perhaps it is like "pounding sand down a rat hole"; it is probably futile but I am curious just how deep your particular hole is.

"The rocks have spoken; they spoke to thee."

[Sol]

Sternwallow wrote

You are like a theist, stranded in mid-air by your WAG with no visible means of support.

Keep pounding sand down that particular rat hole..

[Ed-M]

Sternwallow wrote

I am not sure why I continue to spell out the simple and easily verified facts to you since you are well shielded from acceptance of what you can see in the people around you due to your insubstantial (and, in your case a uniquely porous) education.

Perhaps it is like "pounding sand down a rat hole"; it is probably futile but I am curious just how deep your particular hole is.

"The rocks have spoken; they spoke to thee."

Looks like I just pounded a lot of sand down that rathole! Although I feel like a dog who feels really good at just having put a lot of effort into tearing up something into very small pieces!

[Sternwallow]

Ed-M wrote

Looks like I just pounded a lot of sand down that rathole! Although I feel like a dog who feels really good at just having put a lot of effort into tearing up something into very small pieces!

From this particular rat, you will soon see the very same object that you chewed so thoroughly has flowed back together like warm snot and will be posted again, having been well chewed but not at all digested.

[Ed-M]

Sternwallow wrote

From this particular rat, you will soon see the very same object that you chewed so thoroughly has flowed back together like warm snot and will be posted again, having been well chewed but not at all digested.

I know! He'll probably hide behind his boustraphedon defense again.