Belief in Christ is evidence based

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

An intellectual this one aint!!

I was taught to communicate at the level determined by the subject.

You believe in zombies and sky wizards for fuck sake - hardly intellectual. 'Tis no more than ovine ravings and only deserving of communication on a basic level.

[Andrew66]

hertz vanrental wrote

I was taught to communicate at the level determined by the subject.

You believe in zombies and sky wizards for fuck sake - hardly intellectual. 'Tis no more than ovine ravings and only deserving of communication on a basic level.

Hardly

First there are good philosophical reasons which suggest a sentient Higher Power may be responsible for (and provides the best known explanation to) the origin of physical existence or, if the cosmos are infinite, arise there-from.

See by thread about - Good reasons to believe in a Higher Power, and Cosmological hypothesis regarding evolution of a supreme being.

Secondly, No zombie or wizard's tale has had any where near the impact of the Gospels and writings of Paul. Historic analysis suggests that a resurrection event may have indeed really happened, in that the pieces of the resurrection narrative, each individually, pass academic historic scrutiny.

Maybe quit being so fucking arrogant and read a bit of this thread from its beginning.

People back in the old days didn't believe in germs because they didn't see them or have evidence for them. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence that supernatural events occur.

Remember, absence of evidence is not evidence for absence!

Can't rule out a higher power existing and watching over us.

Why the fuck do you call yourself Hertz Vanrental?

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Hardly

First there are good philosophical reasons which suggest a sentient Higher Power may be responsible for (and provides the best known explanation to) the origin of physical existence or, if the cosmos are infinite, arise there-from.

See by thread about - Good reasons to believe in a Higher Power, and Cosmological hypothesis regarding evolution of a supreme being.

Secondly, No zombie or wizard's tale has had any where near the impact of the Gospels and writings of Paul. Historic analysis suggests that a resurrection event may have indeed really happened, in that the pieces of the resurrection narrative, each individually, pass academic historic scrutiny.

Maybe quit being so fucking arrogant and read a bit of this thread from its beginning.

People back in the old days didn't believe in germs because they didn't see them or have evidence for them. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence that supernatural events occur.

Remember, absence of evidence is not evidence for absence!

Can't rule out a higher power existing and watching over us.

Why the fuck do you call yourself Hertz Vanrental?

If you believe that the universe was created by some sky wizard who loves us so much that he created Ebola, Cancer, Dengue Fever etc, then you need to go back to school and learn about Physics you lame-brained fuckin' idiot. You christards are so dumb, it's unreal.

Historical analysis also tells us that people once believed that the Earth was flat. They were wrong about that too.

People back in the day didn't believe in germs because they couldn't see them. The Egyptians believed in the god Osiris and they couldn't see him either.

You are such a lame-brained twat and undeserving of my effort.

Your arguments are as useless and illogical as you are and so easy to dismantle that, although untrue, is so typically christard.

You twats believe because you want to - not because there is justifiable cause. Even when there is so much evidence against the existence of a god that the possibility becomes very, very unlikely, you christards will still continue to believe.

Christardology is nothing but superstitious nonsense.

Now fuck off.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

IN HELL YOU WILL BE FORCED TO SUCK SATAN'S COCK AND GET FUCKED IN THE ASS UNTIL YOUR SPLIT IN HALF, AND BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS!!

I just love how you christards are so full of love, acceptance, understanding and forgiveness for your fellow man. However, as far as I am able to determine, your attitude merely reflects the christard attitude that has been displayed since you religtards have existed.

Christard to Atheist: Believe in the lard, who is full of love and forgiveness for mankind - or we will smite thee.

Oh, by the way, fuck off.

[hertz vanrental]

Smellyoldgit wrote

Greetings!
Yes, this fucking idiot will hammer square pegs and twist all known languages to try and justify his shite. Feel free to laugh, point and treat with the disrespect he deserves.

Thanks. Will try my best to put the twat in his place. I need a chew stick.

[Davin]

On December 6th, at 13:41, I saw Andrew66 wandering in a public park. When Andrew66 found a steaming pile of dog shit, Andrew66 picked it up and started eating it while saying, "now how did that get out of my mouth?" Then Andrew66 walked up to a dog, then got down on its hands and knees, then started licking the dogs asshole.
I kept following Andrew66 due to my morbid curiosity. Andrew66 went into a club in the basement of a building. Inside Andrew66 got into a cage. Soon after getting into the cage several people came out and started pissing right on Andrew66 and Andrew66 was drinking it and rubbing the urine all over itself.
I was starting to feel bad for the pathetic, little piece of shit, so I left the club and bought a soda at the corner shop. When I left the shop I heard some very heavy sobbing. This was about fifteen minutes later. Not just sobbing mind you, this was some full on heaving where the person kept having to take breaks to take in deep breaths. I peeked around the corner of the alley, and saw Andrew66 sitting on the asphalt next to a dumpster looking at its phone. Its face was red, tears were making its eyeliner streak, snot was hanging out of both nostrils, and it had shit and pissed its pants. I heard it saying between the loud sobbing and breathing, "why is Davin so mean to me? Just because I can't understand what he says? I try my hardest to look smart, but I'm just too stupid. All I want is Davin's respect but he just won't respect me no matter how much I try to emulate him!" The poor little thing was very distraught. I almost feel bad for so thoroughly destroying all the idiot's shitty arguments.
Andrew66's phone rang and it answered, "he-hello?" The voice that came over was so loud that I could hear it from where I was standing, it shrieked from the phone speaker, "Andre66, what are you doing? If you're going to keep living in my basement, then you have to do your chores! And you still haven't removed the corns from my feet!"
"Mom," Andrew66 said with a breaking voice, "can't I just have one day---"
Andrew66's mom cut him off, "don't give me any lip you worthless piece of shit! You get your sorry, mentally challenged ass back here and bite these corns off of my feet!"
Andrew66 slumped down as if actually deflating then said, "fine, Andrea65, I'm coming home now." Then Andrew66 slowly got up, shoulders drooped, back hunched, and walked out of the alley.

The dumbshit Andrew66 must accept this as evidence of its actions, or Andrew66 must accept that it has been wrong about the whole witness thing.

[Andrew66]

Davin wrote

On December 6th, at 13:41, I saw Andrew66 wandering in a public park. When Andrew66 found a steaming pile of dog shit, Andrew66 picked it up and started eating it while saying, "now how did that get out of my mouth?" Then Andrew66 walked up to a dog, then got down on its hands and knees, then started licking the dogs asshole.
I kept following Andrew66 due to my morbid curiosity. Andrew66 went into a club in the basement of a building. Inside Andrew66 got into a cage. Soon after getting into the cage several people came out and started pissing right on Andrew66 and Andrew66 was drinking it and rubbing the urine all over itself.
I was starting to feel bad for the pathetic, little piece of shit, so I left the club and bought a soda at the corner shop. When I left the shop I heard some very heavy sobbing. This was about fifteen minutes later. Not just sobbing mind you, this was some full on heaving where the person kept having to take breaks to take in deep breaths. I peeked around the corner of the alley, and saw Andrew66 sitting on the asphalt next to a dumpster looking at its phone. Its face was red, tears were making its eyeliner streak, snot was hanging out of both nostrils, and it had shit and pissed its pants. I heard it saying between the loud sobbing and breathing, "why is Davin so mean to me? Just because I can't understand what he says? I try my hardest to look smart, but I'm just too stupid. All I want is Davin's respect but he just won't respect me no matter how much I try to emulate him!" The poor little thing was very distraught. I almost feel bad for so thoroughly destroying all the idiot's shitty arguments.
Andrew66's phone rang and it answered, "he-hello?" The voice that came over was so loud that I could hear it from where I was standing, it shrieked from the phone speaker, "Andre66, what are you doing? If you're going to keep living in my basement, then you have to do your chores! And you still haven't removed the corns from my feet!"
"Mom," Andrew66 said with a breaking voice, "can't I just have one day---"
Andrew66's mom cut him off, "don't give me any lip you worthless piece of shit! You get your sorry, mentally challenged ass back here and bite these corns off of my feet!"
Andrew66 slumped down as if actually deflating then said, "fine, Andrea65, I'm coming home now." Then Andrew66 slowly got up, shoulders drooped, back hunched, and walked out of the alley.

The dumbshit Andrew66 must accept this as evidence of its actions, or Andrew66 must accept that it has been wrong about the whole witness thing.

well done at least the first part.

The problem is Davin that there is a disjoiner.

A. Event -> honestly observed -> interpreted correctly -> belief in event -> testimony.

Here testimony stemming from belief in an event does count as evidence for the event. Testimony = truth.!

B. Event -> honestly observed -> misinterpreted -> incorrect belief -> incorrect testimony

Here this is an honest mistake. Still evidence for an event, but possibility of misinterpretation should be weighted in the analysis of the evidence what the event actually was all about.

This is the most credible analysis regarding the resurrection as there is an appeal to a supernatural, or at the least a very incredible event.

C. No Event -> Lie is devised for ulterior motive -> testimony to lie.

Here the testimony from a lie should in the ideal world not counted as evidence, but unfortunately, as the reviewers don't know it s a lie, is counted as evidence anyway.

Example, the story Davin devises about Andrew66 is clearly a made up fabrication with the ulterior motive to entertain and for teaching purposes.

However, as we've learned from politcs, if a person keeps repeating and repeating a lie, a certain percentage of people will count the lie as evidence.

A dispassionate judge, as long as ulterior motive is compelling and evidence, can discount the evidence as not credible. The evidence can be thrown out.

With regards to the Resurrection, the evidence points to an observed event (interpreted and believed to be an alleged Resurrection), and the witnesses appear credible (no compelling ulterior motive submitted or evident) so the evidence counts. The question on the evidence is whether there is a correct or incorrect interpretation of the observations given as testimony to support the allegation.

I agree that the interpretation of the evidence "likely" would lead a judge to conclude there is a misinterpretation, as the conclusion (to an actual resurection) demands a supernatural event. This is the common Atheist opinion.

However, if you believe in God, the interpretation of the evidence could very likely mean there is a correct interpretation (to actual Resurrection).

Since is is unknown whether God exists, and God may exist, there is a chance that the resurrection, by the evidence may have occurred.

The only time the testimony doesn't count as some kind of evidence in favor of the Resurrection is if it can be shown that the testifiers are obviously lying , with compelling ulterior motive.

Fuck you Davin for forcing me to detail the obvious.

[hertz vanrental]

Davin wrote

On December 6th, at 13:41, I saw Andrew66 wandering in a public park. When Andrew66 found a steaming pile of dog shit, Andrew66 picked it up and started eating it while saying, "now how did that get out of my mouth?" Then Andrew66 walked up to a dog, then got down on its hands and knees, then started licking the dogs asshole.
I kept following Andrew66 due to my morbid curiosity. Andrew66 went into a club in the basement of a building. Inside Andrew66 got into a cage. Soon after getting into the cage several people came out and started pissing right on Andrew66 and Andrew66 was drinking it and rubbing the urine all over itself.
I was starting to feel bad for the pathetic, little piece of shit, so I left the club and bought a soda at the corner shop. When I left the shop I heard some very heavy sobbing. This was about fifteen minutes later. Not just sobbing mind you, this was some full on heaving where the person kept having to take breaks to take in deep breaths. I peeked around the corner of the alley, and saw Andrew66 sitting on the asphalt next to a dumpster looking at its phone. Its face was red, tears were making its eyeliner streak, snot was hanging out of both nostrils, and it had shit and pissed its pants. I heard it saying between the loud sobbing and breathing, "why is Davin so mean to me? Just because I can't understand what he says? I try my hardest to look smart, but I'm just too stupid. All I want is Davin's respect but he just won't respect me no matter how much I try to emulate him!" The poor little thing was very distraught. I almost feel bad for so thoroughly destroying all the idiot's shitty arguments.
Andrew66's phone rang and it answered, "he-hello?" The voice that came over was so loud that I could hear it from where I was standing, it shrieked from the phone speaker, "Andre66, what are you doing? If you're going to keep living in my basement, then you have to do your chores! And you still haven't removed the corns from my feet!"
"Mom," Andrew66 said with a breaking voice, "can't I just have one day---"
Andrew66's mom cut him off, "don't give me any lip you worthless piece of shit! You get your sorry, mentally challenged ass back here and bite these corns off of my feet!"
Andrew66 slumped down as if actually deflating then said, "fine, Andrea65, I'm coming home now." Then Andrew66 slowly got up, shoulders drooped, back hunched, and walked out of the alley.

I believe brother, I believe.

Praise be to de lard.

[Smellyoldgit]

Andrew66 wrote

The only time the testimony doesn't count as some kind of evidence in favor of the Resurrection is if it can be shown that the testifiers are obviously lying , with compelling ulterior motive.

What about the possibility that the testifiers were pea-brained dolts, doing what their political masters demanded in order to help establish the recently formed con of a bullshit based religion?

More commonly known as "Made up Shit Syndrome"

[hertz vanrental]

Smellyoldgit wrote

What about the possibility that the testifiers were pea-brained dolts, doing what their political masters demanded in order to

Gain power and control over mankind by :-

Relieving mankind of its money and possessions

Murdering those who oppose their religion

Raping and

Performing sexual acts with our children for their gratification.

[Andrew66]

Smellyoldgit wrote

What about the possibility that the testifiers were pea-brained dolts, doing what their political masters demanded in order to help establish the recently formed con of a bullshit based religion?

More commonly known as "Made up Shit Syndrome"

Finally a useful comment

It is because Smelly is a Brit, a superior culture and race!

Smelly is now giving preliminary review of the evidence to test whether it is worth consideration.

Are the apostles who witnessed the alleged resurrection event credible? Do they have a compelling ulterior motive, so strong a motive that their testimony is more likely than not lying.

Smelly suggests that testifiers were not smart (pea brained) - well, I dont know if that is true, but even it was, see a person dead then alive later isn't brain science.

Smelly also suggests that the testifiers may have had a ulterior political motive (to give false testimony, lie), in promoting the Christian faith. This is a possibility I suppose, but do the facts relating to the apostles suggest this is likely?

When Jesus died, and if he didn't rise, wouldn't it be more likely that the apostles would be pissed off they were misled, and just stop?

Ok, lets give Smelly's idea a chance.

Lets say Peter and James wanted to continue to promote Jesus (and a new religion, Christianity), even if Jesus didn't rise. They would have to really lie hard to make people believe Jesus rose - and then would be a later (on second coming, a Messiah). They would have to arrange faking post mortum Jesus appearances. Why would they do this? Did Peter and James want to continue being bosses, maybe they were getting money and women for being head of a religious cult? That is the only possibility I suppose. Is there any evidence for this?.

Most Christians would argue that the risks of continuing a failed religion, which was seen as antagonistic to both Rome and the Jewish Sanhedrin would be far greater than any short term gains that wealth or sex would warrant. Indeed, the apostles all suffered and died promoting a faith, doesn't add up if they were lying.

I don't find Smelly's objection to the evidence of the resurrection compelling enough therefore to be dismissed.

[hertz vanrental]

Davin wrote

On December 6th, at 13:41, I saw Andrew66 wandering in a public park. When Andrew66 found a steaming pile of dog shit, Andrew66 picked it up and started eating it while saying, "now how did that get out of my mouth?" Then Andrew66 walked up to a dog, then got down on its hands and knees, then started licking the dogs asshole.
I kept following Andrew66 due to my morbid curiosity. Andrew66 went into a club in the basement of a building. Inside Andrew66 got into a cage. Soon after getting into the cage several people came out and started pissing right on Andrew66 and Andrew66 was drinking it and rubbing the urine all over itself.
I was starting to feel bad for the pathetic, little piece of shit, so I left the club and bought a soda at the corner shop. When I left the shop I heard some very heavy sobbing. This was about fifteen minutes later. Not just sobbing mind you, this was some full on heaving where the person kept having to take breaks to take in deep breaths. I peeked around the corner of the alley, and saw Andrew66 sitting on the asphalt next to a dumpster looking at its phone. Its face was red, tears were making its eyeliner streak, snot was hanging out of both nostrils, and it had shit and pissed its pants. I heard it saying between the loud sobbing and breathing, "why is Davin so mean to me? Just because I can't understand what he says? I try my hardest to look smart, but I'm just too stupid. All I want is Davin's respect but he just won't respect me no matter how much I try to emulate him!" The poor little thing was very distraught. I almost feel bad for so thoroughly destroying all the idiot's shitty arguments.
Andrew66's phone rang and it answered, "he-hello?" The voice that came over was so loud that I could hear it from where I was standing, it shrieked from the phone speaker, "Andre66, what are you doing? If you're going to keep living in my basement, then you have to do your chores! And you still haven't removed the corns from my feet!"
"Mom," Andrew66 said with a breaking voice, "can't I just have one day---"
Andrew66's mom cut him off, "don't give me any lip you worthless piece of shit! You get your sorry, mentally challenged ass back here and bite these corns off of my feet!"
Andrew66 slumped down as if actually deflating then said, "fine, Andrea65, I'm coming home now." Then Andrew66 slowly got up, shoulders drooped, back hunched, and walked out of the alley.

The dumbshit Andrew66 must accept this as evidence of its actions, or Andrew66 must accept that it has been wrong about the whole witness thing.

All we need now is some more of these tales, Davin. Maybe some about andrew66 drinking piss. Then, we stick 'em all in a book. Let's call it 'The book of andrew66 (why eating shit and drinking piss is good for you)".

We can then get the book endorsed by a celeb. Some are dumb enough and some will do anything for money and fame.

We can then start a company and apply for charitable status and ask for donations (which, of course, come with tax breaks).

Other celebs will immediately jump on the bandwagon for fear of being left out.

We can then use crooked politicians to get some laws passed - especially ones involving compulsory belief in andrew66 - which will, of course, be punishable by death unless complied with. In fact, we can execute a few innocents just in case the populace don't believe that we will execute them if necessary.

We can build some big, impressive buildings where there will be pictures of andrew66, drinking piss and eating shit, for all to see and worship.

Of course, we will need 'administrators' to run all of this who will be REWARDED for their efforts.

Hell, what will we have?

A religion, brothers and sisters. Praise be to andrew66 - shit eater and piss drinker extrordinaire.

Here endeth this morning's lesson.

[Davin]

hertz vanrental wrote

All we need now is some more of these tales, Davin. Maybe some about andrew66 drinking piss. Then, we stick 'em all in a book. Let's call it 'The book of andrew66 (why eating shit and drinking piss is good for you)".

These testimonies are evidence of the actions and life of Andrew66.

[Davin]

On December 6th, at 13:41, I saw Andrew66 wandering in a public park. When Andrew66 found a steaming pile of dog shit, Andrew66 picked it up and started eating it while saying, "now how did that get out of my mouth?" Then Andrew66 walked up to a dog, then got down on its hands and knees, then started licking the dogs asshole.
I kept following Andrew66 due to my morbid curiosity. Andrew66 went into a club in the basement of a building. Inside Andrew66 got into a cage. Soon after getting into the cage several people came out and started pissing right on Andrew66 and Andrew66 was drinking it and rubbing the urine all over itself.
I was starting to feel bad for the pathetic, little piece of shit, so I left the club and bought a soda at the corner shop. When I left the shop I heard some very heavy sobbing. This was about fifteen minutes later. Not just sobbing mind you, this was some full on heaving where the person kept having to take breaks to take in deep breaths. I peeked around the corner of the alley, and saw Andrew66 sitting on the asphalt next to a dumpster looking at its phone. Its face was red, tears were making its eyeliner streak, snot was hanging out of both nostrils, and it had shit and pissed its pants. I heard it saying between the loud sobbing and breathing, "why is Davin so mean to me? Just because I can't understand what he says? I try my hardest to look smart, but I'm just too stupid. All I want is Davin's respect but he just won't respect me no matter how much I try to emulate him!" The poor little thing was very distraught. I almost feel bad for so thoroughly destroying all the idiot's shitty arguments.
Andrew66's phone rang and it answered, "he-hello?" The voice that came over was so loud that I could hear it from where I was standing, it shrieked from the phone speaker, "Andre66, what are you doing? If you're going to keep living in my basement, then you have to do your chores! And you still haven't removed the corns from my feet!"
"Mom," Andrew66 said with a breaking voice, "can't I just have one day---"
Andrew66's mom cut him off, "don't give me any lip you worthless piece of shit! You get your sorry, mentally challenged ass back here and bite these corns off of my feet!"
Andrew66 slumped down as if actually deflating then said, "fine, Andrea65, I'm coming home now." Then Andrew66 slowly got up, shoulders drooped, back hunched, and walked out of the alley.
As Andrew66 passed the shop where I bought my soda, it looked in and saw something. Andrew66 looked into its pockets but pulled out only three pennies. It looked down to the ground and started sobbing and said, "why is my life so miserable?"
After a few minutes of staring longingly into the shop, Andrew66 went to the corner and started calling out people walking by and cars driving by, "I'll blow you for five dollars!"
One man, a tall burly man with a beard, accepted the offer and took Andrew66 off to an alley. I didn't watch the actual act, so I can't say what really went down, but the man came out while zipping his pants up saying, "that wasn't worth five dollars." A little while later, Andrew66 came out of the alley wiping its mouth with some tears streaming down its face.

The dumbshit Andrew66 must accept this as evidence of its actions, or Andrew66 must accept that it has been wrong about the whole witness thing.

[hertz vanrental]

Davin wrote

These testimonies are evidence of the actions and life of Andrew66.

I believe. I believe. Praise be. Hallelujah brothers and sisters. Hallelujah.

All we need now are some tunes and words to go with them and we can hold a service.