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Old 02-21-2018, 07:24 PM   #3316
Simon Moon
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Let me start by saying, that one of main motivations in life, is to have as many true beliefs, and eliminate as many false beliefs from my mind as possible.

I believe it is important for my beliefs to map as closely as possible to reality.

I am also opened to being convinced of any claim, as long as the claim is supported by demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic.



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Fair enough, we agree to disagree regarding the Bible. I believe the whole Bible points to Jesus as atonement for sins and the resurrection for life everlasting.
I know that is what you believe.

What I want to know is why. More specifically, what is the demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument that convinced you, that the Bible is true?

And, if I am not provided with evidence with such evidence, what should be my justification to also believe?

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You were once a believer you note, then may I ask, if you care to answer of course...

1.When did you quit becoming a believer?

As far back as I can remember, I was a skeptical person. When presented with claims for various supernatural claims, I would apply my critical thinking skills to said claims, in order to determine if they were supported or not.

But, I compartmentalised my religious beliefs, in order to keep them from the same level of of critical scrutiny that other claims were subject to.

At some point in my mid to late teens, I came to the conclusion, that I was not being intellectually honest by not applying the same level of scrutiny to my theistic beliefs, as I did for other supernatural claims. After critical examination, I came to conclusion, that my god beliefs were no longer warranted, due to being unsupported by demonstrable evidence and valid and sound logic. As soon as this became obvious, my beliefs just sort of fell away.

I had family members give me quite a few apologetics books, from McDowell, Lewis, Craig, Strobel, Plantiga and others. I really thought these people would really challenge my lack of beliefs. But when I was able to find fallacies in all their arguments, I was unimpressed.


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2.Were you raised believing in Jesus professing faith in some particular denomination and was it like brainwashed into you do you feel? Sounds like if I understand correctly you did your own research and was still a believer for some period of time after that.
Well, the way the human mind works when we are young, I believe that I was indoctrinated.

We are programmed by our evolutionary history, to accept, almost without question, what people in authority positions tell us. It is a survival mechanism. This important mechanism gets exploited (not purposely) by things that are supported: don't touch fire, don't hit your baby brother, and by unsupported things: every inanimate object has a spirit (animism), Allah will send you to Jahannam if you eat pork, your grandparents spirits live on (taoism), Jesus sacrificed himself to himself, as a loophole in a rule he created, etc.


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I ask because the main reason I am here is to learn more about atheists because my sister is an atheist. She believed until our father walked out on us both to live in Vegas for prostitutes, alcohol, and gambling, all three. She told me when she was 6 she didn't believe in God anymore because no God would "take away her Dad forever." He left permanently without another word/visit and no child support.

So of course my mother worked 3 jobs to raise us. It was tough times financially, the usual scenario that can play out in these situations. My mom was gone so much she asked "Did God take away my mom too?" as she was asleep when she got home late at night. I can understand in crummy circumstances (Pick any circumstance: child molestation, child abuse, abuse of anybody at the hands of another as I think of domestic abuse, illnesses both mental and physical, poverty, hunger, weather issues and the list goes on especially war circumstances torture etc.and the devastation they cause)
Sounds like she is an atheist not based on critical thinking, but because of trauma. Most atheists are atheists because of critical thinking. At lease in my limited experience.

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As she got older I showed her the Bible and she said it was a joke and written by a bunch of drunk people who would be laughing their asses off that anyone believe such BS.

My sister actually was forced to go to church until about 7 when my mother mentioned it she finally had had enough. She would truly plant her feet on the ground and my mother carried her out to the car screaming at the top of her lungs. It was not a pleasant scene. Six months later she yelled at the top of her lungs there was no God and jumped out of the car at a stop sign and ran down the street and my mother was chasing around in the car until she found her and told she would never have to go to Church again because she was afraid she would run away from home completely. My sister and mother never stepped into a Church again except for weddings and funerals.
Sounds like she is an atheist not based on critical thinking, but because of trauma. Most atheists are atheists because of critical thinking. At lease in my limited experience.

My atheism is not due to any childhood trauma, bad relationship with my parents, bad experiences at church, etc.

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I do believe by the Grace of God the pendulum will swing back at some point and more people will convert to Christianity.
There is no evidence that bears this out. All evidence points to less and less religiosity around the world.

Last edited by Smellyoldgit; 02-22-2018 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Corrected quote tag
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:12 AM   #3317
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Ok JJ...But which god?
The one she believes in of course!
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Also how exactly in your view does this sentiment fit with the first ammendment?
In my travels, I've met and cringed at numerous dim specimens who think; "In God We Trust" "One Nation Under God" and "God Bless America" are to be found in their constitution.
Clueless fucks is the politest response I can think of!

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:46 PM   #3318
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Didn't Jesus supposedly teach the separation of religion and state. Render unto Caesar and whatnot.

Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:25 PM   #3319
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Didn't Jesus supposedly teach the separation of religion and state. Render unto Caesar and whatnot.
Yes!
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:02 PM   #3320
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Didn't Jesus supposedly teach the separation of religion and state. Render unto Caesar and whatnot.
Since jesus & his teachings were probably Roman fabrications, that makes sense.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:40 PM   #3321
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Noticed the troll asking for links it refuses to click on.

thank goodness he's on our side
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:29 PM   #3322
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The one she believes in of course!
In my travels, I've met and cringed at numerous dim specimens who think; "In God We Trust" "One Nation Under God" and "God Bless America" are to be found in their constitution.
Clueless fucks is the politest response I can think of!
Jeebus H Titty-Fucking Christ

Invisibility and nothingness look an awful lot alike.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:30 PM   #3323
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Noticed the troll asking for links it refuses to click on.
I make exception for certain posters for links. You're not one of them.

JJ
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:32 PM   #3324
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Jeebus H Titty-Fucking Christ
I love the "Jeebus stuff Judge. It's still a Christian nation and those that don't like it can move the Hell out, JMO.

JJ.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:15 AM   #3325
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I ask because the main reason I am here is to learn more about atheists because my sister is an atheist. She believed until our father walked out on us both to live in Vegas for prostitutes, alcohol, and gambling, all three. She told me when she was 6 she didn't believe a Godwould "take away her Dad forever." He left permanently without another word/visit and no child support.

As she got older, I showed her the Bible and she said it was a joke and written by a bunch of drunk people who would be laughing their asses off that anyone believe such BS.
Sorry to hear the story about your sister JJ.

The problem of evil has always been the strongest "atheistic" positive argument against God's existence. It is especially strong for those who actually feel the pain of a terrible loss.

Ironically, it sounds like your sister would be a great addition to the atheist gang here - her rhetoric would be welcomed by Hertz, Smelly, Davin etc.

To bring your sister back into the fold, I recommend you recommend her to watch the movie Collateral Beauty.

God Bless, keep up the good work.

I can sense the atheists are softening their opinions because of your missionary work.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:23 AM   #3326
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The problem of evil has always been the strongest "atheistic" positive argument against God's existence. It is especially strong for those who actually feel the pain of a terrible loss.
Funny...

I don't find the problem of evil to a very strong argument for the nonexistence of a god, at all. It does tend to argue against a benevolent god, but not a god in general.

The complete lack of demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic to support the god claim, is all we need to disbelieve.


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I can sense the atheists are softening their opinions because of your missionary work.
You actually think that JJ is a good spokesperson for Christianity?!

The only things that would 'soften my opinion', is demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic to support the god claim.

Got any?
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:30 AM   #3327
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I love the "Jeebus stuff Judge. It's still a Christian nation and those that don't like it can move the Hell out, JMO.

JJ.
You can't be this ignorant...

The USA is NOT a "Christian" nation. It may be a Christian majority nation, but our government was specifically designed to be secular.

Many of the Founding Fathers (possibly a majority of them) were deists, not Christians. And they were very well acquainted, from the history of Europe, with what can happen when religion and government mix.

Here's a quiz for you, how many times are the words: Jesus, God, Bible, or any other term referring to Christianity, used in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:00 PM   #3328
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I love the "Jeebus stuff Judge. It's still a Christian nation and those that don't like it can move the Hell out, JMO.

JJ.
Let me add, "In God We Trust" was not added to our currency until 1957, during the "Red Scare", as a response to those "godless Communists".

In case you math is as bad as you history, that is 181 years after the founding of the US. It also appeared on the little used 2 cent coin in 1864 during the Civil War.

The Great Seal of the US, created by the Founding Fathers, only has "E Pluribus Unum". No sign of any god references.

Here's another historical fact that I am sure you will be completely ignorant of.

In 1796, under president Washington, the US signed a treaty with Tripoli (now Libya) called The Treaty of Tripoli. It was ratified under president John Adams.

In it, reads the following:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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Old 02-24-2018, 01:06 PM   #3329
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I can sense the atheists are softening their opinions because of your missionary work.
Get fucked, you cum slurping slack-jawed bullshitting sorry waste of DNA.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 02-24-2018, 01:09 PM   #3330
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
Maryjj would never let demonstrable facts get in the way of her trolling!

Stop the Holy See men!
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