09-22-2009, 08:07 AM
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#46
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Stop the Holy See men!
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09-22-2009, 08:13 AM
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#47
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
Philboid Studge wrote
Thought this was humorous.
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Quote:
Catholic Church wrote
...a Catholic who puts his or her trust in reiki would be operating in the realm of superstition...
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Finally, someone to quote other than Lily, to display humorous lack of self-awareness.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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09-22-2009, 01:37 PM
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#48
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I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
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Every mutt who thinks their plan for powering the nation with political fart gas, immediately invokes Galileo as a conversation-stopper.
Oh, she said Galileo; she must be a maverick genius.
"A December picnic on the shore of lake Michigan may be a little chilly, but it is a good idea, remember Galileo."
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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10-10-2009, 01:51 AM
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#49
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Just how retardedly stupid can some folk be?
Quote:
Two people have died and 19 others were taken to hospital after being overcome while in a sauna-like room at a spiritual retreat in Arizona.
Reports said some of the sweatbox participants had paid up to $9,000 (£5,700) for their stay at the retreat.
The resort offers a wide range of treatments from massage to colon cleansing, healing carried out by harnessing the consciousness of a dolphin, or "vortex experiences", in which participants "experience our human energy system interacting with the earth".
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Looks to me as if the only success of the place was in helping a few gullible fools lighten the loads from their wallets - - - oh, and of course, shoving a conscious dolphin vortex up a few arses. What the fuck's the matter with these people?
Stop the Holy See men!
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10-10-2009, 06:17 AM
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#50
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,158
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Quote:
Smellyoldgit wrote
Just how retardedly stupid can some folk be?
Looks to me as if the only success of the place was in helping a few gullible fools lighten the loads from their wallets - - - oh, and of course, shoving a conscious dolphin vortex up a few arses. What the fuck's the matter with these people?
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Is colon cleansing similar to arse wiping? If so I will start to charge 1000 quid a time and see how I get on.
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11-30-2009, 05:35 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 860
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Another CAM discussion
A topic for discussion that I put up:
Quote:
Whisper wrote
HRH, Prince Charles, often goes out of his way to advocate the use of Complimentary and Alternative Medicine - not only to the individual, but also to health providers.
Despite the fact that all reliable research has found that CAM is next to useless (and when not, it's no better than placebo or conventional medication) expensive, and riddled with hidden dangers - such as some medications being touted as 'homeopathic' actually being doctored to include some real and active ingredients that could conflict with other medications the patient is on, or that could cause allergic reactions and so on.
Homeopathy - a very popular form of CAM, despite having absolutely no scientific backing (or even any scientific sense) - and being disproven over and over again, it is still endorsed by HRH Prince Charles, and other Royal's and Celebrities. Because of this it has gained such a popularity that there are even Homeopathic Hospitals! This, at a time when the NHS is hemorageing money and qualified nursing staff!
Chiropracty - another popular form of CAM that is considered almost 'mainstream' these days, especially in certain European countries and America - offer's nothing beyond placebo for anything other than some forms of back-pain. Yet the practitioners claim it can heal all sorts of diseases, in both adults and children. In fact, Chiropracty has been linked with stroke and even death, due to the damage that can be caused in the neck during treatment - cutting off blood-flow to the brain or causing blood-clots that travel into the brain. Yet, again, HRH Prince Charles has endorsed this treatment.
Accupuncture - yet another popular form of CAM that is offered by conventional GPs - is again lacking in any scientific backing. Beyond a slight benefit to some pain, accupuncture offers nothing bar placebo and in some places, the risk of infection due to needles not being cleaned properly. Again, endorsed by HRH Prince Charles.
Other CAM - from the Gerson Diet to Reflexology - again, despite having absolutely no evidence to back up the claims made by practitioners - is endorsed and widely promoted.
Our Health service - as I said - has niether the money nor the resources to waste on this stuff, yet because of endorsements like those given by HRH Prince Charles, it bows to the 'popularity' and offers it, often on the NHS itself.
HRH Prince Charles has often said investigations need to be done into CAM, to clear the matter up once and for all. Yet he seems oblivious to the fact that the inestigations HAVE been done and they have almost universally shown CAM to be nothing more than placebo or negligable benefits (that are trumped by conventional medicine every time.)
I honestly think HRH Prince Charles ought to wake up to the facts and stop promoting therapies that are at best, useless and at worst, life-threatening. I think he should instead make it clear that the investigations have been done and that the results are almost totally negative.
What are your thoughts on this matter?
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Reply:
Quote:
Taravati wrote
Natural medicine can be effective in treating certain conditions and it is the study of pharmacopia that started our modern day pharmacies. Many of the medicines we have today are based on natural medicines. Since plant growth is subject to many factors; scientists learned to identify and in many cases reproduce the active chemical so that it could be produced in mass quantities. Alternative medicine has its place in modern medicine and in many places they are used together such as at the Cancer Treatment Centers of America, where countless lives have been affected.
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And then I went off on one, as I do with this subject:
Quote:
Whisper wrote
CERTAIN 'natural' remedies can work. However, when it comes to 'natural' or 'herbal' remedies, the range from 'totally ineffective' to 'some evidence of efficacy' is quite large. Things like St John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum), for example, have been shown to work on mild or moderate depression, but is totally ineffective when it comes to severe depression, and it can also interact with conventional treatments in undesirable ways. However, thing's like Asian Ginseng (Panax ginseng), touted as a cure-all for impotence, diabetes and cancer, (amongst other things) has almost no data to back up said claims; the same goes for Chamomile (Chamomilla recuita), touted as a cure-all for dyspepsia, irritable bowel syndrome and insomnia (amongst other things), and many other 'natural/herbal' remedies.
It cannot be contested, of course, that conventional medication is derived from many 'natural/herbal' remedies. Most are. The difference is that the conventional versions have gone through rigorous identification of the chemicals that produce the desired effect (which are often then synthesised in pure forms that have none of the side-effects that the whole plant would produce) and then even more rigorous testing to make sure they do not cause more harm than good.
This of course is the problem with 'natural/herbal' remedies. They have NOT (for the most part) been put through the investigation and testing that conventional treatments have. There is risk not only of the remedy interracting in an undesirable way with conventional treatments already being followed, but of unforseen side effects, allergies and even contamination (of such things as pesticides, other plant material and even conventional drugs added to make what are essentially placebos actually work.)
When it comes to Alternative Medicine as a whole, I feel that it does far more harm than good. If taken from the view that as a placebo, the Alts aren't doing any harm, I contest, firstly, that with the fact that to achieve the desired placebo effect, doctors have to mislead their patients at best and out-right lie to them at worst - which obviously runs afoul of undermining the patient-doctor relationship, as well as adding the extra pressure that if one group of doctors is lying about these treatments, ALL doctors then have to lie about it as well, or there will be conflicts, again undermining the patient-doctor relationship.
I contest, secondly, that Alternative medicine tends to be thoroughly expensive, which is good for the practitioner, but bad for the patient, because the practitioners have a habit of talking patients into more and more treatments over longer periods, milking the patients for all they are worth. This is espescially reprehensible when A: the patient is not exacty rich, B: the patient is not actually suffering from anything at all, C: the patient IS suffering frm something, but is recieving no treatment becasue the CAM Practitioner has convinced not only themselves, but also the patient that the CAM treatment is all they need - and so on.
I contest, thirdly, that Alternative medicine has so little data to support it, from Accupuncture, to Homeopathy, from Chiropractice Therapy to Herbal Medicine, from Chelation Therapy to Ayurvedic, that it simply should not have so much time and money wasted on it. The media world touts this stuff as cure-all's, as fantastic replacements or supplements to conventional treatment, offering false hope for the seriously ill and outlets for the hypochondriac. Each of these treaments - working from what little data is available - offer's nothing more than placebo at best, and serious danger to health at worst (Chiropracty, for instance, can and has lead to stroke and death - and they manipulate the STILL FORMING bones of babies and very young infants!)
The amount of money the Health System has is finite, and could (and should) be better used in helping the conventional (ie: real) medical side - providing much needed equipment and drugs, paying the wages of much needed medical staff, TRAINING more medical staff and so on. The CAM world is big business, taking in billions of £'s a year world-wide.
I find it astonishing that something that offers little more than placebo and takes up so much time and money, is still being advocated by many health practitioners, celebrities and even our Royal family.
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I'd like your thoughts on HRH Prince Charles and his advocacy of CAM.
Quote:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
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Charles Darwin.
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11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
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#52
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Quote:
Whisper wrote
I'd like your thoughts on HRH Prince Charles and his advocacy of CAM.
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He is the most retarded of a retarded crop of retarded 'royals'.
His only education is in extreme groveling, toadying and dodgy handshake techniques.
He knows absolutely fuck all about real medicine.
His 'Foundation for Integrated Health' was a backdoor attempt to sneak top grade quackery into the NHS, which got the derision it deserved from the scientific community. Of course, the quackery adherants loved it, as any exposure can be argued to give it some level of recognition and respectability. I think he should keep his nose out of everything except Camilla's arse - he's to dangerous to be allowed to use a spoon.
Stop the Holy See men!
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11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
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#53
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Some fucking wanker twat dwopped a double.
Oh the shame!
Stop the Holy See men!
Last edited by Smellyoldgit; 11-30-2009 at 01:28 PM.
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11-30-2009, 12:35 PM
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#54
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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Hey, two postings like SS's two glocks! for the overcompensation, guys! Woo hoo!
Edit: And no fair waving your mod wang wand and getting rid of one without owning it, Smelly.
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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11-30-2009, 01:00 PM
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#55
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mongrel Nation
Posts: 4,839
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He also made the unforgivable (in my book) merkinese to/too faux pas & would have to correct it twice
thank goodness he's on our side
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11-30-2009, 01:35 PM
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#56
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Ok, I give up. I have terminal man-flu.
I'm choking, spluttering and hacking my guts all over the damn pootah.
My eyes are watering and I can't spot any damn merkinese. Somebody put me out of your misery. What've I done?
Stop the Holy See men!
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11-30-2009, 01:39 PM
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#57
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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11-30-2009, 02:01 PM
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#58
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mongrel Nation
Posts: 4,839
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Sorry about your terminal illness Smelly, as a fellow I can empathise.
Not sure if it's actual Merkinese, but a lot of them, particularly the theists, miss an o from the stressed too. Makes me want to burn a dictionary
thank goodness he's on our side
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11-30-2009, 02:09 PM
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#59
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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oh shit - that's just inexcusable - I shall offer a nasal blood sacrifice to the virgin Thor.
Stop the Holy See men!
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12-03-2009, 06:30 AM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 860
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Article in the Guardian on Edzard Ernst and a whole hoard of medical practitioners telling the government to stop wasting money on Homeopathy.
Homeopathy Commons Inquiry
Thee's an audio on there that I'm gonna have a listen to.
Having recently finished reading 'Trick or Treatment', of which Ezard Ernst was a co-writer, I reckon I'll enjoy listening to him tear Homeopathy a new one.
Quote:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
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Charles Darwin.
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