Are Trolling Fuckwits Worth The Trouble?

[The Judge]

JerryJohn wrote

Judge,

Jesus is the fulfillment of all. You missed the point. He is the savior and forgives sins and provides everlasting life. By his cross and resurrection has set us free. He is the savior of the World.

JJ

I'm actually glad you brought this up JJ.
It is a source of perpetual puzzlement to me and no one has been able to explain why they believe what they believe. No matter how much I drill down, at bedrock I always hit "the bible say it so it must be true" and no one can seem to get past this.

Here's the thing: Let's say for the sake of argument that Jesus lived and he died on the cross as a matter of historical fact.
Now if this is a fact the act of sacrifice is completed as a one time deal; it happened. If the reason for dying was to "take away the sins of the world" (no logcial explaoination here but we'll leave that for a moment), then the act of sacrifice has done it's job. We're all "saved."

What I have never understood is why the faithful harp on about a person's salvation being contingent, not upon this fact but their belief in this fact? If it happened then we're all saved irresepctive of whether we believe it or not.
Why then is it SO important for anyone to believe in Jesus if he died "for our sins" and has therefore already saved us?

[Andrew66]

The Judge wrote

I'm actually glad you brought this up JJ.
It is a source of perpetual puzzlement to me and no one has been able to explain why they believe what they believe. No matter how much I drill down, at bedrock I always hit "the bible say it so it must be true" and no one can seem to get past this.

Here's the thing: Let's say for the sake of argument that Jesus lived and he died on the cross as a matter of historical fact.
Now if this is a fact the act of sacrifice is completed as a one time deal; it happened. If the reason for dying was to "take away the sins of the world" (no logcial explaoination here but we'll leave that for a moment), then the act of sacrifice has done it's job. We're all "saved."

What I have never understood is why the faithful harp on about a person's salvation being contingent, not upon this fact but their belief in this fact? If it happened then we're all saved irresepctive of whether we believe it or not.
Why then is it SO important for anyone to believe in Jesus if he died "for our sins" and has therefore already saved us?

Judge
I'm sure all Christians have asked this same question.
When I contemplate this, I put myself in God the Father's shoes.
His Son dies on the cross, suffers terribly - and what is the one and only thing the Father asks for.
Just at least believe it, or note, it happened (therefore giving a little bit of respect and glory to the sacrifice of his Son).
Seems like a bare minimum requirement to me.
When father's loose their sons in war, do they not wish the public to remember there son, and what they died for.
Salvation therefore is essentially a gift, the bare minimum requirement is to at least acknowledge (and preferably - but not even necessarily give thanks to) the individual who paid for the gift.
Praise be to Jesus!!
Amen

[Andrew66]

hertz vanrental wrote

As instructed, I shall ignore the troll forever more. In fact, I shall leave this place and go elsewhere.

Yayyyyyy! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE, GO GO FUCK YOU - KICK YOU IN THE ASS AS YOU LEAVE, DON'T LET THE DOOR SLAM TOO HARD AGAINST YOU AS YOU LEAVE.

FUCKING QUOTE MINER. GET OUT!!!!!!

[JerryJohn]

Andrew66 wrote

Judge
I'm sure all Christians have asked this same question.
When I contemplate this, I put myself in God the Father's shoes.
His Son dies on the cross, suffers terribly - and what is the one and only thing the Father asks for.
Just at least believe it, or note, it happened (therefore giving a little bit of respect and glory to the sacrifice of his Son).
Seems like a bare minimum requirement to me.
When father's loose their sons in war, do they not wish the public to remember there son, and what they died for.
Salvation therefore is essentially a gift, the bare minimum requirement is to at least acknowledge (and preferably - but not even necessarily give thanks to) the individual who paid for the gift.
Praise be to Jesus!!
Amen

Well said, Andrew.

Judge, I can't help you out with this. It's obvious you are well read, and have decided you don't believe. There is nothing I could add to your research.

To each his own.

Regards,

JJ

[Andrew66]

JerryJohn wrote

Well said, Andrew.

Judge, I can't help you out with this. It's obvious you are well read, and have decided you don't believe. There is nothing I could add to your research.

To each his own.

Regards,

JJ

Lets say a prayer for Judge - the fact that he dwells on this sight, suggests he is pulled towards God.

God Bless everyone, and have a happy New Year!

[Kinich Ahau]

What sight is he dwelling on you inbred, redneck "looser"?

[Kinich Ahau]

Maybe it's the sight Andy making a complete fool of himself.

[The Judge]

Andrew66 wrote

Lets say a prayer for Judge - the fact that he dwells on this sight, suggests he is pulled towards God.

God Bless everyone, and have a happy New Year!

LOL at this. Your prayers are but wishful thoughts, nothing more but say them if you must in order to feel the piety that you so desparately crave (how hollow must your life be to try SO hard to make it seem worthwhile?)

Oh and this is a site. There is no such thing as a sight.
If you could read and write correctly perhaps you would have noticed that this is an atheist site; it makes no sense to dwell here if one is "pulled towards god." But perhaps I'm being too mean, maybe your sight is failing you which is why you cannot read / write so well.

[The Judge]

JerryJohn wrote

Well said, Andrew.

Judge, I can't help you out with this. It's obvious you are well read, and have decided you don't believe. There is nothing I could add to your research.

To each his own.

Regards,

JJ

Fair enough. At least you're honest about your inability to explain this key tent of your faith. I hope this had made you think about it though and perhaps question not only this but other areas too. Questioning is good. After all it is the wise who doubt and quetion whereas the fool is always cocksure and certain.

[The Judge]

Andrew66 wrote

Judge
I'm sure all Christians have asked this same question.
When I contemplate this, I put myself in God the Father's shoes.
His Son dies on the cross, suffers terribly...

So you put yourself in god's shoes (who, let's not forget is three things in one) who first of all knew that he would sacrifice himself to himself (so it wasn't really a surprise was it) only to be resurrected by the power of himself so he could rise to himself?!?!

How you do this without it being a mind fuck is beyond comprehension of a thinking person.

Andrew66 wrote

When father's loose their sons in war, do they not wish the public to remember there son, and what they died for.

Yes but those fathers did not know that they were giving birth to their sons in order that they be sacrificed and so your analogy is actually very weak here.

Some soldiers go off to war and not killed but are maimed and so when I remember, I remember those poor fellows too. Your god must have known how much and in what ways they would suffer and he was completely fine with that. If he does exist as you claim then that fact (along with many others) makes him a sadistic cunt.

And by the way you still have not explained why I am not already saved by jeebus' act, you just re-iterated that I must believe in it for it to count. This does not make sense.

If he died for our sins then we are all already saved whether we believe in him or not right?

[JerryJohn]

The Judge wrote

Fair enough. At least you're honest about your inability to explain this key tent of your faith. I hope this had made you think about it though and perhaps question not only this but other areas too. Questioning is good. After all it is the wise who doubt and quetion whereas the fool is always cocksure and certain.

Judge,

You were just "chastising" Andrew his reading and writing skills were you not?
Did you really mean to write "...explain this key "TENT" of your faith?

Perhaps Judge you should not be quite so quick to judge so harshly a fellow poster?

Also, the Internet description of this Raving Atheist Forums SITE is everyone is welcome here. That would include Andrew.

Regards,

JJ

[Andrew66]

The Judge wrote

So you put yourself in god's shoes (who, let's not forget is three things in one) who first of all knew that he would sacrifice himself to himself (so it wasn't really a surprise was it) only to be resurrected by the power of himself so he could rise to himself?!?!

How you do this without it being a mind fuck is beyond comprehension of a thinking person.

You are speaking to the mystery of the Trinity. Understand, that the nature of God (as a Trinity) is a mere hypothesis generated by the Catholic Church - as they honestly sifted through the "evidence" of the historical manuscripts they had on hand.

The Church had to harmonize that there is only one God, yet Jesus was attested to have an extremely intimate, uniquely authorative connection to God - and was higher status than mere human or angel.

The Trinity takes into account your concerns Judge, Jesus as a complete man on earth was not aware of his other co - part in heaven - he suffered fully as a Man. That God the father was omniscient to the fate of his Son - does not change the merit of Jesus's suffering.

Remember, the Trinity states three entirely separate entities are also one (it is illogical - beyond human understanding - there is no point to try to make sense of it, as you desperately are trying to do!). I for one am a fan of interpreting the Trinity as three entities, in a perfectly harmonized "team" (like a perfect Hockey team for example - where all the players work perfectly together towards a common goal) - then things "make sense". But now Christian will really know - until they are in heaven.

The Judge wrote

And by the way you still have not explained why I am not already saved by jeebus' act, you just re-iterated that I must believe in it for it to count. This does not make sense.

If he died for our sins then we are all already saved whether we believe in him or not right?

That "believe" in God is a "requirement" for salvation is a Church position - but it is also supported by the Words of Jesus when asked directly. I have suggested that "hope" hopefully (excuse the pun) may be enough, for some people who are hard wired against faith.

It is possible I suppose therefore that as long as one at least obeys the teachings of Jesus Christ (love the neighbour) - and notes the truth of Jesus's real historical sacrifice, and hopes there is something to the God story - maybe this would be enough.

Why is belief a requirement.??? That is a prime concern for you Judge, isn't it?

I have my own theory, but its not based on scripture. I personally wonder whether "belief" in itself IS NOT a pre-requisite for heaven. Satan obviously believes - but he is not a big fan of Love They Neighbour - so he's excluded from heaven.

I think that to try, earnestly, to lead an altruistic life - (the main teaching of Jesus - again Love they Neighbour) may be the real ticket God is looking for. However most, if not all? people cannot cut mustard - we are inherently a very selfish species, so by "believing" in God, and afterlife - gives us a better opportunity (it provides us an extra incentive) to walk the path of righteousness. So belief is more of a prescription to get to salvation, than a pre-requisite.

God Bless your search for truth Judge. You are obviously passionate about religious study - you will find you way.

GOD BLESS

[Andrew66]

JerryJohn wrote

Judge,

You were just "chastising" Andrew his reading and writing skills were you not?
Did you really mean to write "...explain this key "TENT" of your faith?

Perhaps Judge you should not be quite so quick to judge so harshly a fellow poster?

Also, the Internet description of this Raving Atheist Forums SITE is everyone is welcome here. That would include Andrew.

Regards,

JJ

Thanks JJ, I for one have too much dignity to chase down and try to humiliate posters for mere spelling mistakes - . I wish they would tackle the merit of the thoughts and ideas for a change

[Smellyoldgit]

Trolling Fool wrote

You are speaking to the mystery of the Trinity.

Is this Adrool's first reference to the "mysterious ways" escape clause? Shirly not!

Buffoon wrote

Understand, that the nature of God (as a Trinity) is a mere hypothesis ....

Why does our resident fool slip in a well defined scientific term to describe something which stands up to zero scrutiny - when "made-up shit" does the job quite adequately.

Idiot wrote

The Church had to harmonize that there is only one God .....

I suppose the cat-lickers had no comprehension of the thousands of other gods that other civilisations had worshiped for millenia.

Cocksucker wrote

Remember, the Trinity states three entirely separate entities are also one (it is illogical - beyond human understanding - there is no point to try to make sense of it .........)

I totally agree!

Yet you keep digging

Nutjob wrote

I for one am a fan of interpreting the Trinity as three entities, in a perfectly harmonized "team" (like a perfect Hockey team for example - where all the players work perfectly together towards a common goal) - then things "make sense"

Until they are beaten by a 'more perfect' team.

Shit eater wrote

(the main teaching of Jesus - again Love they Neighbour)

Ahh, back to the gool ol' Golden Rule - practiced by every previous civilisation & hijacked by Constantine's christians to give a semblance of sense their bullshit.

[Kinich Ahau]

The Holy Ghost wouldn't make a very good goalie.