How to win the War in Iraq.

Philboid Studge wrote

Cap'n, maybe I misunderstood your original comment: "I would turn half of Iraq into a mud hole," a sentiment which OC echoes -- "wholesale slaughter, domination of both guerillas and the populace, and an unrelenting show of force" -- if not endorses.

Whether such a tactic would save lives is disputable. Whether it would result in a "secure" nation-state is doubtful; I'd say incredible. Slinking out, pretending we won, might be the best option. By "best" I mean the "least horrible." But I think we should slink away, then support the effort to rebuild that mess. I know how you feel about the UN (that's a debate for another day), but there's really no other organization on that scale fit to clean up the unbelievable frigging mess we made. It's criminal what we've done over there.

You and I have a common starting point, at least, if for different reasons: we both think the invasion was a mistake. Speaking of strange bedfellows, I think your prescription is closer to the Hillary-Biden model for "getting out" but I could be wrong, as both of those people nauseate me, and I stopped paying attention some time ago.

I agree that slinking out and pretending we won is probably the most workable model that has the least negative consequences for us. The problem being Iraq might go to Civil War, so more people might die in Iraq if we leave then if we were there. The problem with my plan is that it would be very unpopular, isolate us more from the Europeans and cause disrest at home. (Because people are emotional and can't see the long term.) Plus it might inflame the Muslim world against us. Which could kill more people in the long run.

But the absolute worst option is the path which we are currently on 'Staying the Course' as President Bush likes to call it. Staying the course means nothing is going to change over there, the war will likely slowly escalate, which is just a caulous political move so as not to draw out as much of a reaction. It's much more honest to just fight the war as hard and fast as possible. We need a plan to do something at this point.

Just on a side track, speaking of really strange bedfellows, I was a speaker at the local college on diversity week. I had shown up to a previous debate and been the loyal opposition when they asked for questions. When one of thier speakers crapped out on them they asked if I could fill in on short notice and 'share my opinion'
Holy Crap was I surprised at that. Liberals must actually be living up to thier 'open minded' claim these days. That's right hippies, Cap'n Awesome, champion of diversity.

Cap'n Awesome wrote

Liberals must actually be living up to thier 'open minded' claim these days. That's right hippies, Cap'n Awesome, champion of diversity.

Here's what I have against this kind of post. It generalizes without reason. The funny thing is I never hear about this kind of speech when it comes to conservatism. Why? Because there's no such thing as a single conservatism, just as there really isn't for liberals either. I support many liberal policies, just as much as I respect policies considered conservative. I like neither Clintons nor Bushees, so going off on LIberals this, or Liberals that really doesn't make all that much sense. It's fallacious to think all policy can be so clearly distinguished, and since Liberal, and Conservative has nothing to do with Atheism, then it's probably best to start seeing these things based on the single policies themselves.

As for Iraq, I say we ask China to come in, and take over. We owe them all the debt. Why not just let em' come in, quell the Iraq problem, and let em' capitalize on the area? In fact, any global competitor that wishes to capitalize on Iraq, let em. It's better than letting the area roil back into civil war chaos.

Did we use all our nukes??

I say withdraw. If the Sunnis have half a brain, they'll beg for mercy to avoid being stomped on by the Shiites and the Kurds.

[a different tim]

Going back to the start...

Well there is a powerful state that is dealing with Islamic terrorism in exactly the way the Cap'n proposes. The Russkies. They are indeed killing "all the insurgents" in Chechnya. Let's just see how that's working for them.....


.....oh.