Why Should I Believe in God?

[Eva]

ok, choobs!` go pray for me......NOT!!!

[Irreligious]

All the best to you both, Eva and Sterny.

[JU Mike]

Whoa Sterny and Eva, are you guys serious about all this? If you are then you have my best wishes and I hope everything turns out well.

[Smellyoldgit]

Bloody hell Eva - how to ruin my Saturday.
No doubt you'll be as resilient as ol' Stern in dealing with it.

No visits to Benny Hinn planned then?

Sternwallow wrote

Wrong again! Atheism is not a belief against anything. It is not a belief!

Atheism is clearly the willing and eager wait for any tiniest sliver of evidence in favor of God. (some restrictions may apply, tax rates may be different in your locality)

Just in case you missed it: atheism is not a belief!

Alright, I do hear you. Atheism is a lack of belief. If you are truly looking for one tiny piece of evidence of God, rather than looking to find one tiny piece of evidence to balk at, I will take that at face value. Please understand that from some of the shit slinging I've seen in my brief visit here I just didn't get that overall impression, if you know what I mean.

Let me make a few assumptions here. You believe that matter is made up of atoms, but you probably have never seen them personally. You may believe the universe is very old, although you have only been around for what I assume is less than a century. You probably have a myriad of other beliefs which are based almost entirely on the testimony or concensus of others who examined the evidence. Science is as much about concensus as Religion is. Ultimately you are putting your faith in a community of ideas. But that doesn't go far enough. You also have to validate those ideas in your own personal experience. You may also try and get inside the logic to see if it adds up. If I try to comprehend some of Einstein's specific theories of relativity (especially the one where travelling in a straight line brings you back where you started), I may not be able to reconcile them in my own thought process. That doesn't mean they aren't true.

It's obvious that a lot of people who worship God often don't think through issues like how texts are redacted, or how certain events aren't recorded with 100 percent accuracy. However, that doesn't make the substance of those texts into fairy tales made up to ease man's fear. It doesn't necessarily make the text even remotely made up. I haven't heard the latest about how the Exodus never happened and I won't take it as fact until I personally examine the evidence. Still, I am not in the least bit doubtful that the Jews were taken into captivity by Babylon. The Old Testament Prophets commentaries on those events are remarkably accurate, from different vantage points, and more or less corroborating each other. For instance when Ezekiel predicts the leveling of the city of Tyre, he is somewhat innaccurate in that Babylon sieged the city for 13 years then gave up without ever destroying it. Yet he corrects it later in the text, giving the accurate account. He is commenting on history and there is nothing metaphorical about it. The fact of 66 different authors of the Bible is in fact noteworthy, especially when you add the redactions of the Prophets Isaiah and Daniel. I believe it would be difficult if not nearly impossible to find 66 post Common Era Christian authors who could maintain the congruity found in the books of the Bible.

Then there is testimony of faith. How did you put it? Great faith doesn't make it true. And conversely, greatly-intelligent, well-informed, tightly-reasoned lack of belief doesn't make it not true either. When I examine the lives of the 12 who followed Jesus (the so-described phantom conglomeration of Buddah and yada yada yada) I don't see some kind of desperate political motivation driving these 12 men to go to their deaths. I don't see some kind of philosophical statement either. From what I gather it was a case of renounce this silly Jesus story or die. These guys weren't strapping bombs onto themselves to take out a few Roman soldiers (I know, they didn't have gunpowder). They weren't pouring gas on themselves in protest of some injustice. They taught people to obey the government, especially when it persecutes you. Then the Romans absorbed the church and it became the political power structure. It persecuted the Anabaptists, the Muslims, and the Jews. Again there is more testimony of faith. The Catholic (and Protestant) church saying in effect in the case of the Anabaptists - renounce all this silly Jesus talk or die.

There is everyone I have ever known who was radically changed by faith in Jesus, healed of diseases, broken of addictions and schizophrenic conditions for the remainder of their lives. Hospitals don't ever record that data for some reason. And I have seen it in action first hand many times. The doctors say "you have 6 months to live", but then the person is prayed for and healed. Does the doctor record it as a statistic? No. "Well, he's better now, discharge him." Science just believes it never happens or it's some kind psycho-physiological response they haven't got a handle on yet. And that's all I'm trying to say about looking in the right places for the right data. If you won't look there you're just not going to find it.

If you want to, you can say that any historical account is marred by human error and can't be God. But that's just willfully ignoring the possibility that God is willing to work with humanity in all it's messy imperfection. If you want to, you can create a sound logical syllogism and come to the conclusion that God can't be omniscient and be in this Ketchup bottle at the same time. But to reckon who God is, would be to try and be a God for yourself. Which is what the New Testament says about Jesus "He didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped". He didn't hold onto it as his birthright.

You and lily ought to hook up, geo. Birds of a feather. I'll leave it to Sternwallow to explain your errors (he has WAY more patience for this insanity than I), though you aren't going to accede any ground, I suspect, being this deeply indoctrinated.

geo wrote

There is everyone I have ever known who was radically changed by faith in Jesus, healed of diseases,.

I have an antigravity/time travel machine in my basement. I'd demonstrate it to you, but I know you wouldn't believe me anyway.

geo wrote

For instance when Ezekiel predicts the leveling of the city of Tyre, he is somewhat innaccurate in that Babylon sieged the city for 13 years then gave up without ever destroying it. Yet he corrects it later in the text, giving the accurate account.

I predicted the lottery numbers, and, after the draw, I corrected my prediction.

So, did you get millions of god-bucks?

[Kate]

Stern and Eva --I'm sorry to hear about your situations.

I just hope you two aren't in a lot of pain. I've seen my share, and know I have to go someday, but hopefully peacefully. Eva and Sterny, best of my regards.

[Eva]

thanks to all....not definitive yet, but i'm pretty sure i have it...
i'll keep you all posted, itchy trigger finger always ready to defend the honor and integrity of this humble Forum.
har har, i'll stop now.

to smelly: you can fix your saturday by imbibing copioussly any alcoholic spirit you want. i hear drambuie is a good one....

[Smellyoldgit]

Eva wrote

to smelly: you can fix your saturday by imbibing copioussly any alcoholic spirit you want. i hear drambuie is a good one....

I promise to do just that - but to humbly correct your grammar if I may - I insist on a capital D for Drambuie!

[Sternwallow]

Eva wrote

oh, sterny, i'm so sorry...
i may have lymphoma....so, i'll meet you at the bar a pay a couple of rounds, for good time's sake....

Look, folks, I didn't intend to hang my situation out for the general public.

But, when people make claims about being supported by their religion in times of dire illness or injury, thereby implying that I should lean on the same low caliber crutch, it boils my blood a bit. It is like my knee-jerk reaction to the "No atheists in foxholes" canard. I for sure, absolutely, do not want anyone, especially this noble crowd, to feel sorry for me in the least.
I do appreciate all of your general kind thoughts, though.

I would be proud to hoist a few with you guys (generic usage) even if I weren't under a permanent "slow/caution" sign.

Eva, I hope that you do not, in fact have lymphoma. That would suck mightily.

Now, can we not dwell on our God-given cellular blessings any more other than to counter stupid theist bilge?