The Money Issue

I have always wondered about this one. Religion always asks for your money.

So there's a tax on being a theist.

What return does the theist get on that money?

Does it guarantee he goes to Heaven?

WHAT is he paying for? Or is it the sheep supporting the Shepherd?


Just always bothers me. Especially tithing.

[Irreligious]

Stargazer wrote

I have always wondered about this one. Religion always asks for your money.

So there's a tax on being a theist.

What return does the theist get on that money?

Does it guarantee he goes to Heaven?

WHAT is he paying for? Or is it the sheep supporting the Shepherd?


Just always bothers me. Especially tithing.

Depends on the religious organization, of course, but it seems apparent to me that the request or demand for money is to cover overhead costs: The church building, its contents and its necessary repairs, utilities and, of course, the salaries of the clergy. That last one is where it gets dicey, especially when you see some of these clergy folk living so high off the hog that it's only too apparent that they are basically fleecing the flock. Clergy are required to pay income tax in the U.S., right?

Some also claim to use portions of the money raised to pursue mission work and tend to the needs of the poor, the latter of which, technically, would legitmately qualify these institutions for tax exempt status.

It's like an extended warranty, paid for by kissing Hank's Ass, in which you are not absolutely certain you will collect. Yes, sheep paying the shepherd. As my ex-brother in law says, "When you drive into Salt Lake City (he's also ex-mormon), you can see Brigham Young with his ass to the church and his hand in the bank", referring to the gigantic statue there.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Stargazer wrote

Especially tithing.

According to their ancient book of myths, tithing is meant to lift the curse on one's money by donating 10% of it as a sacrifice to god.

No, I'm not kidding. Christians actually believe that the money for which they work so hard is cursed. And they actually believe that by handing over one-tenth of it, tax-free, to their local shaman, they can "break the curse" on the other 90%.

Seriously.

Irreligious wrote

Depends on the religious organization, of course, but it seems apparent to me that the request or demand for money is to cover overhead costs: The church building, its contents and its necessary repairs, utilities and, of course, the salaries of the clergy. That last one is where it gets dicey, especially when you see some of these clergy folk living so high off the hog that it's only too apparent that they are basically fleecing the flock.

Some also claim to use portions of the money raised for mission work and tending to the needs of the poor, the latter of which, technically, would legitmately qualify these institutions for tax exempt status.

So, you see, without religion, donations would go directly to the needy with no middle man and there would be no shepherds to pay (and over pay) and no buildings to maintain. Cheaper!

anthonyjfuchs wrote

According to their ancient book of myths, tithing is meant to lift the curse on one's money by donating 10% of it as a sacrifice to god.

No, I'm not kidding. Christians actually believe that the money for which they work so hard is cursed. And they actually believe that by handing over one-tenth of it, tax-free, to their local shaman, they can "break the curse" on the other 90%.

Seriously.

Such a racket. I've never heard that one, but it somehow does not surprise me.

Rat Bastard wrote

It's like an extended warranty, paid for by kissing Hank's Ass, in which you are not absolutely certain you will collect. Yes, sheep paying the shepherd. As my ex-brother in law says, "When you drive into Salt Lake City (he's also ex-mormon), you can see Brigham Young with his ass to the church and his hand in the bank", referring to the gigantic statue there.

I just drove through SLC moving here, and I regret I did not see that.

[Irreligious]

Stargazer wrote

So, you see, without religion, donations would go directly to the needy with no middle man and there would be no shepherds to pay (and over pay) and no buildings to maintain. Cheaper!

In an ideal world, maybe. But even secular charitable agencies have overhead costs and salaries with which to contend. And some of their CEOs take advantage of their positons by demanding disproportionately high salaries, too.

Irreligious wrote

In an ideal world, maybe. But even secular charitable agencies have overhead costs and salaries with which to contend. And some of their CEOs take advantage of their positons by demanding disproportionately high salaries, too.

True, but they would be easier to regulate and monitor. No shield of religion to hold up.

[Irreligious]

Stargazer wrote

True, but they would be easier to regulate and monitor. No shield of religion to hold up.

Troo, dat.

anthonyjfuchs wrote

According to their ancient book of myths, tithing is meant to lift the curse on one's money by donating 10% of it as a sacrifice to god.

No, I'm not kidding. Christians actually believe that the money for which they work so hard is cursed. And they actually believe that by handing over one-tenth of it, tax-free, to their local shaman, they can "break the curse" on the other 90%.

Seriously.

Where on earth do you get this stuff? And I do mean point me to the chapter and verse, please.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Lily wrote

Where on earth do you get this stuff? And I do mean point me to the chapter and verse, please.

The curse? Malachi 3:8-10. Put that together with the fact that tithe means "tenth," and there you have it.

Oh yes, that did feel good.

Now let me qualify my original statement. Some Christers believe that tithing is meant to lift a curse. Not all. And don't waste my time by claiming that I've misinterpretated the passage in question, Lily, because it's not my interpretation; that's the passage that my in-laws' church fires up on the PowerPoint screen when they pass the collection plate. If you have a problem with their interpretation, take it up with them.

Your interpretation of Malachi is worth no more or less than anyone else's. You certainly aren't the arbiter of interpretation (and neither is that cadre of men you so fondly call "the Church"), and you don't have the One True Meaning, no matter how much you think you do.

[Irreligious]

I keep trying to tell her, Tony. But when girlfriend had her chance to "correct" a fellow Christer, what did she do? Why, she demurred, completely destroying whatever powers she thought she may have had here, forever.

[godless]

"3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

No doubt Anthony this only applies under the 'old law'. The doctrine of the 2nd covenant overrides Jewish Law of course. Back then pedophilia, rape, incest, slavery, kidnapping one's spouse, genocide, religious intolerance were acceptable behaviour, not only condoned but often commanded by Yahweh, but that's all changed. God is now one of the good guys, ya just gotta keep up. Would you like some biblical references Lily, be happy to look them up for you.

Because the bible is so nonsensical & cruel, we need doctrines & apologetics to account for what would otherwise be blatant contradictions or otherwise morally abhorrent, & excuses why we need not follow impossible or unpopular law. It's all very simply really!

When I went to a Pentecostal Church they used to pass the collection plate THREE times per service, & urged everyone to 'give till it hurts'. Well it didn't hurt them any that's for sure.

godless wrote

"3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

No doubt Anthony this only applies under the 'old law'. The doctrine of the 2nd covenant overrides Jewish Law of course. Back then pedophilia, rape, incest, slavery, kidnapping one's spouse, genocide, religious intolerance were acceptable behaviour, not only condoned but often commanded by Yahweh, but that's all changed. God is now one of the good guys, ya just gotta keep up. Would you like some biblical references Lily, be happy to look them up for you.

Because the bible is so nonsensical & cruel, we need doctrines & apologetics to account for what would otherwise be blatant contradictions or otherwise morally abhorrent, & excuses why we need not follow impossible or unpopular law. It's all very simply really!

When I went to a Pentecostal Church they used to pass the collection plate THREE times per service, & urged everyone to 'give till it hurts'. Well it didn't hurt them any that's for sure.

So, guilting people out of money that they really need is a very old art. As is falling for that.