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Old 07-07-2013, 02:38 AM   #61
selliedjoup
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Michael wrote View Post
That's a tell-tale sign that you have no idea how to respond to it, in other words.
That's okay. It's hard for you to go off-script, I get it. I can see you desperately working to try to get back on that familiar argument track.

Too bad I'm not going to let you get back on your rails. Let's go off-road.



What if I told you I knew that the world was only created 10 minutes ago, and everything you knew, everything you remembered, were all false memories planted in you when you were created (10 minutes ago). I know all this because I am the one who created everything.

Do you have an opinion on this?
If you say something relevant, then I will address it, your story was irrelevant.

Off road alright.

meh
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:47 AM   #62
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So You are the one true God???? It took you ten minutes??? I created it five minutes ago and implanted the idea into your head that you were the one that created everything after I sent you off with a map for some utterly hilarious shenanigans with some little people and a catchy end credits ditty.
Shenanigans are the only way to go, really.



Quote:
selliedjoup wrote
If you say something relevant, then I will address it, your story was irrelevant.
In other words
"I'm not sure how to argue like this. Please go back into that other line of argument because that's all I know how to do."


Not happening, kiddo. I guess you might as well make like a tree and fuck off then.

Or, you can try to keep up with the rest of us, maybe even learn something new.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #63
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People are affected by many things, I blame people who undertake the actions rather than the justification they provide to rationalise it.
That's rather strange and backwards to how you should probably be thinking about it. You're assuming people have perfect free will and control over themselves when they don't when you blame individuals instead of their outside pressures. In your worldview you would be blaming the starving child on the streets of mumbai that steals a sweet roll for being morally corrupt and not even look at the fact he was born in a slum, will perhaps never get out, and is afraid of dying of starvation?

Or let's take the situation of a socioeconomically deprived person in LA who never had a good family as a kid, did poorly in school, and then gets indoctrinated into a gang and believes that killing people, stealing, ect is morally acceptable because he is told his whole life that the system works against him. He doesn't even have the faintest idea, because he's been brainwashed by his environment, that killing is immoral, that you shouldn't steal, and that there is a chance to do things another way.

To be consistent in your worldview, you would have to ignore the circumstances for both of these people and simply throw them both in prison, probably for life for the second example, or perhaps execute the second person for his crimes. And then you would continue to ignore the things causing the behavior in the first place and you will keep having these people in your society, never solving the problem. And this is what we're currently doing in the United States, with one of the highest murder rates on the planet for a first world country.

Meanwhile across the ocean, Norway is developing a rehabilitation system that focuses on the causes of behavior instead of a prison system that focuses on blaming people and their rate of recriminalization dropped significantly, people in prison are happier, gaining new skills to leave crime through instructors and classes, and becoming contributing members to society.

The way you view things ignores most of how the world operates.

I mean, do you think that if Islam never existed, that two planes still would have flown into two towers in NYC on September 11th, 2001?
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:56 AM   #64
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The irony is I have reached no conclusion due to the lack of evidence, you dwell on it as a badge of honour for your atheism.
So what? How does that make you better than him? Why is it a badge of honor for you to claim agnosticism?

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:27 AM   #65
selliedjoup
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Michael wrote View Post
Shenanigans are the only way to go, really.





In other words
"I'm not sure how to argue like this. Please go back into that other line of argument because that's all I know how to do."


Not happening, kiddo. I guess you might as well make like a tree and fuck off then.

Or, you can try to keep up with the rest of us, maybe even learn something new.
Try quoting correctly


Making up stories bores me. Tell you what write another to tell me how you feel.

You need to know something to teach, so the residents here have nothing to offer.

meh
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:50 AM   #66
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That's rather strange and backwards to how you should probably be thinking about it. You're assuming people have perfect free will and control over themselves when they don't when you blame individuals instead of their outside pressures. In your worldview you would be blaming the starving child on the streets of mumbai that steals a sweet roll for being morally corrupt and not even look at the fact he was born in a slum, will perhaps never get out, and is afraid of dying of starvation?

Or let's take the situation of a socioeconomically deprived person in LA who never had a good family as a kid, did poorly in school, and then gets indoctrinated into a gang and believes that killing people, stealing, ect is morally acceptable because he is told his whole life that the system works against him. He doesn't even have the faintest idea, because he's been brainwashed by his environment, that killing is immoral, that you shouldn't steal, and that there is a chance to do things another way.

To be consistent in your worldview, you would have to ignore the circumstances for both of these people and simply throw them both in prison, probably for life for the second example, or perhaps execute the second person for his crimes. And then you would continue to ignore the things causing the behavior in the first place and you will keep having these people in your society, never solving the problem. And this is what we're currently doing in the United States, with one of the highest murder rates on the planet for a first world country.

Meanwhile across the ocean, Norway is developing a rehabilitation system that focuses on the causes of behavior instead of a prison system that focuses on blaming people and their rate of recriminalization dropped significantly, people in prison are happier, gaining new skills to leave crime through instructors and classes, and becoming contributing members to society.

The way you view things ignores most of how the world operates.

I mean, do you think that if Islam never existed, that two planes still would have flown into two towers in NYC on September 11th, 2001?
No I assume that the cause of the Twin Towers was cultural and the dominance of one over the other. You may attribute religion as a cause if it makes you feel justified, I don't buy that as otherwise all muslims would condone it. Muslims died in it.

Are you anti-capitalism, class based system too? Tell me about your Utopia, or should I read News from Nowhere or Brave New World?

Wow you're so full of cliches. Scandinavian countries with their progressive penal system. What relevance has this to do with the example you're attempting to illustrate? That's right nothing.

Yes the world would be fabulous without religion, people would all be happy and skipping around. No crime just love.

meh
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:52 AM   #67
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So what? How does that make you better than him? Why is it a badge of honor for you to claim agnosticism?
It makes me better than him, as I know I don't know shit. You lot don't know that you don't know shit, that's why I'm here to help.

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Old 07-08-2013, 02:12 AM   #68
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We have agreed many times over we don't know shit. We are unbelievers though till evidence of that shit materialises. Now do you get it. The shit we do know we can effectively recreate again and again and even control in many cases. The shit that is philosophically rammed down the throat of humanity is nothing more than piss in the wind.

A theist is just an atheist with a space in it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:51 AM   #69
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No I assume that the cause of the Twin Towers was cultural and the dominance of one over the other. You may attribute religion as a cause if it makes you feel justified, I don't buy that as otherwise all muslims would condone it. Muslims died in it.
Do you think Islam played no part in 9/11 at all? Do you think 9/11 would still have happened if Islam never existed?

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Are you anti-capitalism, class based system too? Tell me about your Utopia, or should I read News from Nowhere or Brave New World?
Utopia is probably not possible. But that doesn't stop people from looking for better than we have. But I never mentioned utopia anyway. You went from giving prisoners classes to utopia. Off topic.

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Scandinavian countries with their progressive penal system. What relevance has this to do with the example you're attempting to illustrate? That's right nothing.
What I am illustrating is that there are causes for behavior and IF we don't want a certain behavior such as murder to occur, than we can change the causes and therefore change the behavior. Do you believe this or do you not believe this?

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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Yes the world would be fabulous without religion, people would all be happy and skipping around. No crime just love.
I never said anything close to that. And if I did illustrate a utopia at some point if we got rid of religion, then please point it out. I think the world will simply be better without religion- not perfect.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:38 AM   #70
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It makes me better than him, as I know I don't know shit. You lot don't know that you don't know shit, that's why I'm here to help.
Atheism is an acknowledgement of disbelief, not a claim of knowledge. We all know that. Why don't you?

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:55 AM   #71
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Atheism is an acknowledgement of disbelief, not a claim of knowledge. We all know that. Why don't you?
So you come here to claim nothing? How wonderfully pointless!! But do go on....

meh
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:21 AM   #72
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So you come here to claim nothing? How wonderfully pointless!! But do go on....
No, your assumption is incorrect. The atheists who come here usually do so to assert their disbelief or skepticism in a longstanding and prevalent claim that a god is in control of the universe. They also come here to meet other atheists who share their lack of faith in that claim.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:21 AM   #73
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Coming to a place to actively assert your lack of belief in something is a fruitless activity. Perhaps it's some form of penance you feel you owe your past, who else would bother.

meh
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:11 AM   #74
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Coming to a place to actively assert your lack of belief in something is a fruitless activity.
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selliedjoup wrote
The irony is I have reached no conclusion due to the lack of evidence




It's even more fruitless when you do it, then try to tell others they don't not have a lack of belief.


(that's a double negative just for you. I know how much you don't not like your double negatives)
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:19 AM   #75
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It's only pointless as you devoutly consider your lack of belief to be passive.

meh
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